Is there a Virtual Machine that can run Win98/2k? I'm currently using WinXP SP2 and the one I downloaded from MS Website doesn't have 98/2k on its list of bootable OSes. I need it for experimenting purposes. I would really appreciate your replies.

yup

virtualpc
vmware
virtualbox

all of them will work with any os

i recommend virtualbox, it's by far the fastest one

Virtualbox is a great product but from my experience and from all other reports I've read from others trying it, it doesn't really do a great job with 9x systems. It's great for XP, Vista, Linux though.

Work-arounds for the lack of additions support for 9x are there. I used SciTech Display Doctor 7 Beta with a key-gen to make a registration key for it for the video. They offer keys for the older versions on their website but they don't work on 7 Beta and that's the only one of those that work on 98SE from my experience. Hence my hunting around and downloading the keygen. Either the newly included SB16-AWE32 support (and 98SE comes with the driver for that) or the Intel Audio (better, I think, because the Midi works where it can't with SB16 because there isn't a real midi FM chip emulated by Virtualbox) with Realtek's Windows 95 VXD driver (extract with WinRAR and point Device Manager to it because the Realtek setup won't install if it's not Windows 95). Use Rain20 to give the CPUHLT instruction so you're processor won't run at 100% all the time.

It'll work then, but really slow especially for web browsing and Office stuff.

VMWare runs 9x terrific. Workstation is best, but Server or Player can be used (free) if Workstation is too pricey. VMWare Tools are there for 9x as well so Video, Shared Folders, etc, all work fine.

WARNING

running 98 on Virtual Machines can cause overheating.

you *will* need CPUIdle or something similar for the emulated 98 box... otherwise you almost definately will run into heating a priority issues (the emulated 98 box does NOT have an idler... and the emu uses the idle ticks to prioritize the emu to the real machine)

While it *will* run.... if you notice incorrect timers on the emu, you **need** CPUIdle software for the emulated machine....

I burned up a p4 2.8Ghz that way a few months back... had DOS in a VM, and was running a 'burn-in' proggie... left in on overnight, and in the morning it was dead. power ok, just dead. then I read about the idling problems when using a DOS based OS in a VM (all 9x are DOS-based for this comparison).

And if I am somehow wrong... hey, I'm just trying to help out. I *know* my burnt CPU was from this... you can have your own opinion.... actually, if you think I am wrong... let's talk. I never had this happen before... and it has scared me off of playing around with 98SE on my main machines...

DeadDude, You're right! 16 bit Apps use 100% CPU all the time, just start Task Manager and you'll see. Not only on a VM enviroment. They've direct access to the BIOS (hardware).

Your P4 died because you didn't take good enough care of it...

You ever heard of Folding@Home? This distributed computing program keeps peoples' CPU busy with calculations that are sent to a server and help in cancer research. People have been running this for YEARS and their boxes run just fine. On my main rig, my 98 VM takes up 50% CPU (one core) when it's running, and still takes 50% CPU when minimized, however it runs with lower priority when minimized so it doesn't slow my system down. And guess what, my highly overclocked C2D is still alive and kicking even with ambient temps over 30C.

100% usage does not kill your CPU, heat does.

I'd have to agree with that. The real issue is that a virtual machine is going to put an extra load on your machine anyway and if your cooling solution is not doing it's job properly then that could push it over the edge.

Getting back to the OP's original question, Most, if not all, virtual machine products should run 9x based OSes without any problems even if it's not listed as a supported option. I would suggest downloading the trial and/or free versions of VMware, VirtualBox, etc. and see which one you like best.

Qemu is also a valid option:
http://bellard.org/qemu/
(and allows to be launched via batch)

When used with QemuManager is as user friendly as any other VM:
http://www.davereyn.co.uk/

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: Jul 17 2008, 04:49 AM

Did you try? A good VM doesn't care which client OS it runs. The fact MS doesn't support it doesn't say it won't work.

When installing W2000 in Qemu you may need to use the -win2k-hack commandline option. There is a timing bug in the W2000 installer which make the installer stall. When you have a bootable W2000 installation, you can remove the switch. It's slows down virtual HD access.

well, I enjoy the quick talk about my p4 burning up... so I'll try to make this short...

*I'm not saying 100% CPU usage killed a CPU*

The clock in the virtual machine as well as the actual 'real' clock both started loosing time. I didn't really care, I had read somewhere that could happen and is normal (but, that I should use CPUIdle or similar).

*I'm saying an improper virtual machine on improper hardware can cause hardware timing issues that can and will break CPU and/or Motherboard*

I'll see if I can dig up a link... I specifically said 'let's talk about it' because I want to know for a fact what the masses have to say... since it seems pretty clear cut that my cpu burned up during the burn-in... but the CPU had no heating issues before-hand. (mind you, it didn't stay cool in the first place ~65C after all my programs are loaded and running; peaked at ~72C full load).

briefly- is it safe to assume 74C is the max temp any cpu should reach (in a tower)? Intel book says 84C is the absolute breakdown temp (cpu forced shut off), so I assumed my temps were fine.... I had another machine just die, it satyed consistently 68C-72C (74-76C a few times briefly).

not trying to stray too far offtopic....

I haven't used QEMU in about a year... did they speed it up a bit? the older version was too slow to really 'run'....

Weird, I'm using MS Virtual PC on XP and 98 + 2k are officilaly (and totally) supported.

That was your CMOS battery (the battery on the motherboard) dying. It needed a replacement.



The P4s start throttling (slowing down) at 64C. 74C is way too high for any CPUs except overclocked quad cores. On the rig in sig i get 63C full load with 30C ambient, in winter (i keep my house around 20C in the winter) it stays around 55C full load. When doing regular work it sits around 45. Could be even better but i didn't bother to lap the chip.

Mom's P4 2.4 overclocked to 3.6 sits at 50C when doing office work and 63C full load at 30C ambient, under a Scythe Kamakaze, which isn't exactly the best heatsink ever made. Even at that it still throttles every now and then... Download ThrottleWatch and see for yourself. But when ambient temps get cooler it performs very well and sits around 58C.

Keeping it short: A P4 or Pentium D shouldn't run anywhere over 65C. Stock PIIIs take 90C no problem, overclocked and overvolted PIIIs become unstable over 55, same for overclocked socket A chips except the >2000+ Athlons, which are safe up to 70C. For C2D (dual-core) 65C max, for C2Q (quad-core) 72C max.

This is coming from someone who overclocks and mods anything he can, i even got a 200MHz Pentium-MMX running rock solid at 292MHz.



Two months ago it was still slow as crap. PS. 98SE runs under the latest Virtual PC fine indeed.

This post has been edited by Th3_uN1Qu3: Jul 17 2008, 01:01 PM

I must admit I've never even heard of such a thing, never mind actually encountered it. Running a VM does put an additional load on the host machine but providing it's properly cooled that shouldn't cause any problems.

Thanks for the heating tips!

as far as the clock losing time and whatnot-

the clock didn't just lose time... it gained time, too... while watching it... and the little I had read online about 'idling within a VM" led me to that conclusion...

Let me ask ya, you can't see how this could ever cause hardware problems of any sort? Before it happened to me, I used multiple VMs on one machine... got multiple Linux VMs, Mac VMs, DOS VMs, and then I also run multiple emulators within each VM.... 2gigs ram can hold a whole bunch of 64meg VMs...

(seriously, no one can see this happening?? I *really* don't think heat alone is what killed it- I took it for granted the timers got all screwy)

Methinks it was a dodgy motherboard...

awesome.

er... well, awesome to have such a large consensus on that particular bandwagon...


I had since stopped using my beloved VMs for everything... but since y'all are so sure (and I just figured it was 'open-and-shut'), I believe ya. I won't be fearful of 'over doing it' with the VMs...

I just bought a temp sensor with lcd panel... it is in F, not C... oh well, at least it takes accurate readings... (found out most MoBo sensors have an unknown temp offset)

(I'm one of those weirdos that likes to run something in something else... over and over again... Vm in VM in VM in VM running an Amiga 500 emu that is running another emu... thought maybe that was *bad*, but you say hardware issue... better news)

The clock issue is a red herring. If you've ever hung out in or searched the VMware forums you would see there is usually a fairly steady trickle of questions about guest, and sometimes host, clocks losing and/or gaining time.

The number of VMs you were running is also a bit of a red herring. If you had 'overloaded' the machine you would have see two effects, an apparent slowdown, ie. host and VMs would have appeared less responsive, and the hardware would have run a bit hotter.

I honestly don't know of anything which can damage a CPU other than the Terrible Twins - Electrostatic Discharge (ESD) and Heat.