 WDS, WinPE and HALs on XP and Vista |
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 Apr 8 2008, 07:29 AM
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#1
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K-Mart-ian Legend  Group: Members Posts: 1159 Joined: 28-April 06 From: Buffalo, NY Member No.: 94953 OS: Server 2008 x64 
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A debate seems to have come up at my company regarding how we can't use images any longer (with Ghost) because of the different HALs in a system configuration. It seems we have gotten official word from our tech rep at Microsoft about this issue. However, this is in contrast with what is in KB309283:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309283 Which says that if ACPI is enabled, XP will automatically detect the correct HAL. But if it ends up being true that we cannot use images any longer to deploy our machines using Ghost, then I do not see where there is a difference between that and using the WDS and WinPE. With exception of Vista, you have to capture an existing XP image as a WIM, which basically makes it the same process as Ghost. Someone tell if I am wrong or there is another way. |
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Apr 8 2008, 09:03 AM
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#2
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Junior Group: Members Posts: 56 Joined: 26-October 07 Member No.: 159852 OS: none
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Our base image is the standard single CPU HAL, but I use a separate WIM file (or any format of your choosing) for the HAL.DLL and NTOSKRNL.EXE for multi-CPU devices and install those files after applying the base image but before rebooting to Sysprep.
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Apr 8 2008, 10:17 AM
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#3
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Junior Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 8-April 07 From: Berwyn, Illinois Member No.: 134809 OS: XP Pro x86
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I don't know about anyone else but I use the following script. It runs after the WIM has been copied to C:\ and updates sysprep.inf with the information for the appropiate HAL. So far it hasn't failed me yet.
CODE 'On Error Resume Next
Set objWshShell = CreateObject("WScript.Shell") Set objFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") ' Activate the partition Call ActivateDisk() ' Customize the local sysprep.inf file based on the HAL type Call UpdateSysprepinf () ' Done, quit. WScript.Quit Sub ActivateDisk() ' Wait a few seconds, assign drive letter and activate wscript.sleep 5000 cmd = "cmd /c diskpart.exe /s Activate.txt" rc = objWshShell.run(cmd, 6, 1) End Sub Sub UpdateSysprepinf () ' Find out the HAL type sHalType = objWshShell.RegRead("HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\Root\ACPI_HAL\0000\HardwareID") ' Write HAL type to sysprep.inf If sHalType(0) = "acpiapic_up" Then WriteIni "c:\sysprep\sysprep.inf", "Unattended", "UpdateUPHAL", "ACPIAPIC_UP,%WINDIR%\Inf\Hal.inf" ElseIf sHalType(0) = "acpiapic_mp" Then WriteIni "c:\sysprep\sysprep.inf", "Unattended", "UpdateHAL", "ACPIAPIC_MP,%WINDIR%\Inf\Hal.inf" End if End Sub Function ReadIni(file, section, item) ReadIni = "" file = Trim(file) item = Trim(item) Set ini = objFSO.OpenTextFile( file, 1, True) Do While ini.AtEndOfStream = False line = ini.ReadLine line = Trim(line) If LCase(line) = "[" & LCase(section) & "]" Then line = ini.ReadLine line = Trim(line) Do While Left( line, 1) <> "[" 'If InStr( 1, line, item & "=", 1) = 1 Then equalpos = InStr(1, line, "=", 1 ) If equalpos > 0 Then leftstring = Left(line, equalpos - 1 ) leftstring = Trim(leftstring) If LCase(leftstring) = LCase(item) Then ReadIni = Mid( line, equalpos + 1 ) ReadIni = Trim(ReadIni) Exit Do End If End If If ini.AtEndOfStream Then Exit Do line = ini.ReadLine line = Trim(line) Loop Exit Do End If Loop ini.Close End Function Sub WriteIni( file, section, item, myvalue ) in_section = False section_exists = False item_exists = ( ReadIni( file, section, item ) <> "" ) wrote = False file = Trim(file) itemtrimmed = Trim(item) myvalue = Trim(myvalue) temp_ini = objFSO.GetParentFolderName(file) & "\" & objFSO.GetTempName Set read_ini = objFSO.OpenTextFile( file, 1, True, TristateFalse ) Set write_ini = objFSO.CreateTextFile( temp_ini, False) While read_ini.AtEndOfStream = False line = read_ini.ReadLine linetrimmed = Trim(line) If wrote = False Then If LCase(line) = "[" & LCase(section) & "]" Then section_exists = True in_section = True ElseIf InStr( line, "[" ) = 1 Then in_section = False End If End If If in_section Then If item_exists = False Then write_ini.WriteLine line write_ini.WriteLine item & "=" & myvalue wrote = True in_section = False Else equalpos = InStr(1, line, "=", 1 ) If equalpos > 0 Then leftstring = Left(line, equalpos - 1 ) leftstring = Trim(leftstring) If LCase(leftstring) = LCase(item) Then write_ini.WriteLine itemtrimmed & "=" & myvalue wrote = True in_section = False End If End If If Not wrote Then write_ini.WriteLine line End If End If Else write_ini.WriteLine line End If Wend If section_exists = False Then ' section doesn't exist write_ini.WriteLine write_ini.WriteLine "[" & section & "]" write_ini.WriteLine itemtrimmed & "=" & myvalue End If read_ini.Close write_ini.Close If objFSO.FileExists(file) then objFSO.DeleteFile file, True End if objFSO.CopyFile temp_ini, file, true objFSO.DeleteFile temp_ini, True End Sub This post has been edited by TheReasonIFail: Apr 8 2008, 10:20 AM |
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Apr 8 2008, 12:36 PM
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#4
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K-Mart-ian Legend Group: Members Posts: 1159 Joined: 28-April 06 From: Buffalo, NY Member No.: 94953 OS: Server 2008 x64
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I will definately take a look at those two possibilities once I can get approval to start working on it again.
Does memory timing have any effect on the image at all? And if so, is there any documentation or editorial anywhere online I can find to view its effectiveness/non-effectiveness? |
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Apr 8 2008, 01:01 PM
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#5
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 427 Joined: 25-July 06 From: Charleston, SC Member No.: 105938
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Apr 8 2008, 01:05 PM
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#6
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MSFN Addict  Group: Moderator Posts: 1755 Joined: 14-April 05 From: Wisconsin Member No.: 51914 OS: Vista Enterprise x64
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the problem isn;t that XP won't detect the wrong HAL, the issue is that after you ghost a machine it has already selected the HAL it will use during install and won;t change unless you manually do it (even with sysprep) say you build and test on a single core machine and puch it to a dual core machine, only a single will be used. vista doesn't have this issue as it is HAL independent.
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Apr 8 2008, 01:13 PM
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#7
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Junior Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 8-April 07 From: Berwyn, Illinois Member No.: 134809 OS: XP Pro x86
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QUOTE (fizban2 @ Apr 8 2008, 01:05 PM)  the problem isn;t that XP won't detect the wrong HAL, the issue is that after you ghost a machine it has already selected the HAL it will use during install and won;t change unless you manually do it (even with sysprep) say you build and test on a single core machine and puch it to a dual core machine, only a single will be used. vista doesn't have this issue as it is HAL independent. But if your base image is syspreped using the ACPI HAL, you should be able to update it to any other HAL without a problem. This post has been edited by TheReasonIFail: Apr 8 2008, 01:13 PM |
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Apr 8 2008, 10:51 PM
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#8
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MSFN Master  Group: Super Moderator Posts: 2732 Joined: 24-September 03 From: Indiana Member No.: 7346 OS: Vista Enterprise x86
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QUOTE (TheReasonIFail @ Apr 8 2008, 03:13 PM) But if your base image is syspreped using the ACPI HAL, you should be able to update it to any other HAL without a problem. Actually that is not technically correct. You can update the HAL to another compatible HAL. You can force the change between non-compatible HAL's as the script above does but it is not supported by Microsoft. |
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Apr 9 2008, 06:40 AM
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#9
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Junior Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 8-April 07 From: Berwyn, Illinois Member No.: 134809 OS: XP Pro x86
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QUOTE (IcemanND @ Apr 8 2008, 10:51 PM) Actually that is not technically correct. You can update the HAL to another compatible HAL. You can force the change between non-compatible HAL's as the script above does but it is not supported by Microsoft. Well, it works great for us here when the base PC is an ACPI PC. |
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Apr 9 2008, 07:06 AM
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#10
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MSFN Addict Group: Moderator Posts: 1755 Joined: 14-April 05 From: Wisconsin Member No.: 51914 OS: Vista Enterprise x64
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QUOTE (TheReasonIFail @ Apr 9 2008, 07:40 AM) QUOTE (IcemanND @ Apr 8 2008, 10:51 PM) Actually that is not technically correct. You can update the HAL to another compatible HAL. You can force the change between non-compatible HAL's as the script above does but it is not supported by Microsoft. Well, it works great for us here when the base PC is an ACPI PC. i think we all agree the script will work as anyone who is updating their HAL in their XP image is doing the same thing, Iceman was just pointing out the specifics. back to the original post, Go download the Microsoft deployment Toolkit and the WAIK, you will be able to create both XP, 2003, Vista and 2008 based images from that tool, it will also intergrate into SCCM if you are looking to move to that from SMS |
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Apr 10 2008, 09:57 AM
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#11
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K-Mart-ian Legend Group: Members Posts: 1159 Joined: 28-April 06 From: Buffalo, NY Member No.: 94953 OS: Server 2008 x64
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QUOTE (fizban2 @ Apr 9 2008, 09:06 AM) QUOTE (TheReasonIFail @ Apr 9 2008, 07:40 AM) QUOTE (IcemanND @ Apr 8 2008, 10:51 PM) Actually that is not technically correct. You can update the HAL to another compatible HAL. You can force the change between non-compatible HAL's as the script above does but it is not supported by Microsoft. Well, it works great for us here when the base PC is an ACPI PC. i think we all agree the script will work as anyone who is updating their HAL in their XP image is doing the same thing, Iceman was just pointing out the specifics. back to the original post, Go download the Microsoft deployment Toolkit and the WAIK, you will be able to create both XP, 2003, Vista and 2008 based images from that tool, it will also intergrate into SCCM if you are looking to move to that from SMS Thanks I've already used the WAIK but our MS rep told us we can't use that anymore. So I am switching to OPK instead because of our licensing. It works the same. I've got a handle on Vista and 2008, but we get the choice of moving from Ghost to WDS for XP and I'm trying to make sure it will work out properly once we switch. The only issue I have with XP on HALs is the following: We create XP images on a per-board basis, not a big mess of boards. So the only thing we will see in a different cfg with one image is perhaps a Celeron vs a Core 2 or on the other side a X64 vs a LE1620. Either way, the CPU is the only thing that will change. All of the boards we use are set up as ACPI. The deal is that XP Pro SP2 detects the HAL at the start of Windows loading so it won't crash if you change the processor out. Of course the original image needs to be made on a UP, because it is designed to scale to an MP if it detects a CPU change. This is what is noted in the KB article I posted above under bullet 4. I also tested this using identicle configs except for CPU type. Install everything on the PC with the Celeron (including drivers and apps). Make note of the HWID in Devmgmt and the full HAL name given. Turn the machine off, take out the HDD, put it in the machine with the Core 2, boot up and compare against the HAL again. It changes to the MP HAL with no errors to be found. So this is why I am wondering why it is even needed to change the HAL after imaging, or even have multiple images for different HALs in this case. Yes I understand the need for this if 1) you aren't using similar hardware 2) you aren't using XP Pro SP2 or newer. But since XP can autodetect the HAL, you should be able to use the same image for either MP or UP case. Of course you couldn't use it if you disabled ACPI or tried to put it on an IA64 or what have you. Anyways its lunch time for me. Let's talk about this some more eh? |
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Apr 10 2008, 10:37 AM
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#12
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MSFN Master Group: Super Moderator Posts: 2732 Joined: 24-September 03 From: Indiana Member No.: 7346 OS: Vista Enterprise x86
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most people who want to cover multiple HALs seem to want to cover all 7 XP HALs with one image. If you build you image on a UP ACPI HAL and deploy to UP or MP ACPI HAL systems you should be fine. If you build on a MP system you will need to use the sysprep option to downgrade the HAL to UP as downgrading is not automatic.
I'm curious as to why your rep told you that you could not use the WAIK. |
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Apr 10 2008, 11:55 AM
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#13
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K-Mart-ian Legend Group: Members Posts: 1159 Joined: 28-April 06 From: Buffalo, NY Member No.: 94953 OS: Server 2008 x64
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QUOTE (IcemanND @ Apr 10 2008, 12:37 PM) I'm curious as to why your rep told you that you could not use the WAIK. We do/will not use WDS to deploy to corporate pcs, ie workstations and servers within our company. We got this understanding: WAIK is to deploy within your own company OPK is to deploy onto machines that are to be sold/redistributed In addition to using WDS with the OPK, we are also able to make product recovery media with it. |
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Apr 26 2008, 02:53 PM
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#14
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Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 22-July 05 Member No.: 65611
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QUOTE (TheReasonIFail @ Apr 8 2008, 09:17 AM) I don't know about anyone else but I use the following script. It runs after the WIM has been copied to C:\ and updates sysprep.inf with the information for the appropiate HAL. So far it hasn't failed me yet. So does that script automatically choose the multiprocessor ACPI HAL or the normal uniprocessor ACPI HAL based on what type of computer it's being installed on? Where in the setup process can I insert the script? Although I have used RIS in the past, I am new to WDS, and I'd like to not have to have two different images on the WDS server if possible. |
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Apr 29 2008, 10:30 AM
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#15
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Junior Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 8-April 07 From: Berwyn, Illinois Member No.: 134809 OS: XP Pro x86
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QUOTE (thefultonhow @ Apr 26 2008, 02:53 PM) |