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ilko_t

May 10 2007, 05:33 AM

QUOTE (jaclaz @ May 10 2007, 09:42 AM)

...The rewriting of the MBR on the stick only happens when a SATA drive is present, doesn't it?...

When non- native SATA controler (probably IDE too) is used and USB stick is listed first. Have a look at post #130

I will try the other suggestions.

QUOTE (wimb @ May 10 2007, 11:48 AM)

ilko_t How can I determine the PID and VID ?

Regards,
ilko

edit: @wimb - you may select the lines 1 by 1 and use ctrl+c to copy-paste contents.

jaclaz

May 10 2007, 06:06 AM

@Ilko_t
another question, how did you load the SATA drivers?
1) F6 + floppy
2) TEXTMODE folder:
http://www.msfn.org/board/Unattended_insta...ppy_t13173.html
3) TXTSETUP.SIF ONLY:
http://www.msfn.org/board/Add_slipstream_S...ion_t77999.html

(maybe the last one could "trick" setup into thinking the SATA to be "native" like PATA?)

jaclaz

ilko_t

May 10 2007, 07:25 AM

QUOTE (jaclaz @ May 10 2007, 01:06 PM)

@Ilko_t
another question, how did you load the SATA drivers?

I am using XP with BTS mass storage drivers pack slipstreamed, so it's via txtsetup.sif. I tried to change the order in txtsetup.sif, moving the Hardware VID&PID lines for USB mass storage and Sil3112 above then below anything else, hoping that SETUP reads the lines and scans for devices according to the order written in txtsetup.sif but that didn't change anything. Also tried to set mass storage drivers as described here, but to no avail too:
http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176

As far as I remember I tried to swap order in these lines, everything was shoots in the darkness:

[DiskDriverMap]
abiosdsk = "%1!u! MB Micro Channel Disk"
atdisk = "%1!u! MB IDE/ESDI Disk"
disk = "%1!u! MB Disk %2!u! at Id %3!u! on bus %4!u! on %5"

and
[SCSI.Load]
........

I believe similar setup could be achieved in VMware, set 2 disks- 1 SCSI and 1 IDE and try to change the order SETUP detects them. Normally IDE goes first, SCSI second. If one could find how to swap them, same method could be used to set USB stick last.
I will try first what happens to the stick when SETUP finds NT MBR on it, instead of GRUB.

edit: interesting line in txtsetup.sif, not sure is it used only when upgrading :

[Directories.DeleteOnUpgrade]
1, Prefetch
2, ReinstallBackups
2, os2
1,"Driver Cache\i386"
2, CatRoot2
1, $NtServicePackUninstall$
1, ServicePackFiles
124, x86_comctl32_6.0.0.0_0000
124, x86_GdiPlus_1.0.0.0_0409
124, x86_Microsoft-Visual-CPlusPlus-Runtime-Libraries_6.0.0.0_0000
124, x86_Microsoft.Tools.VisualCPlusPlus.Runtime-Libraries_no-public-key_6.0.0.0_x-ww_4d05e542
124, x86_Microsoft.Windows.Common-Controls_no-public-key_6.0.0.0_x-ww_cd4c0d12
124, x86_Microsoft.Windows.GdiPlus_no-public-key_1.0.0.0_x-ww_fad9507f
124, InstallTemp

wimb

May 10 2007, 07:39 AM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 10 2007, 01:33 PM)

QUOTE (wimb @ May 10 2007, 11:48 AM)

ilko_t How can I determine the PID and VID ?

I have used a Medion laptop MD6100 with SiS PCI IDE-controller:

PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_5513&SUBSYS_55131039&REV_00\3&61AAA01&0&15
with Hardware-id's:
PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_5513&SUBSYS_55131039&REV_00
PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_5513&SUBSYS_55131039
PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_5513&CC_010180
PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_5513&CC_0101

Thanks a lot also jaclaz for al the information on how to determine this value.

Regards, wimb

ilko_t

May 15 2007, 04:54 AM

Mistery solved

When you have an IDE device attached, along with SATA disk, this breaks the order. IDE device could be CD/DVD or hard disk, and boot order on BIOS makes no difference. In this case the order SETUP enumerates devices is IDE-USB-SATA. If IDE device is disconnected or primary/secondary channel is disabled in BIOS order becomes SATA-USB.

On Gigabyte DS3P with Intel ICH8R (6 SATA ports) and JMicron 363 (2 SATA/1 IDE) if both controllers are in AHCI or RAID mode order is SATA1-SATA2-USB.
If Jmicron is in IDE mode this makes no difference, as its a separate controller, order is SATA1- SATA2- USB.
However, if Jmicron is in AHCI or RAID and ICH8 is in native IDE mode order changes to IDE (ICH8R) - USB - SATA (Jmicron). 1 hard drive attached to both controllers and a DVDRW to the JMicron IDE port, DVD was never disconnected or disabled.
So if IDE device is attached to external controller such as JMicron, this doens't change the order SETUP finds devices, and USB goes last, if a native IDE is connected it always goes first, then USB, and last is SATA.

If only IDE hard disk and USB stick are connected (CD/DVD disconnected or primary/secondary channel disabled in BIOS) order is IDE disc- USB. This was confirmed on Abit AN7 too. If CD (secondary channel) is disabled order was SATA-USB, when IDE disc was connected order becomes IDE-USB-SATA
That should clear any further issues with device order, once we ensure that USB is not first we can carry on with installation.

Here is what I did to overcome signature problem in BOOT.INI and make the installation as universal as possible.

Stick is formated by PEtoUSB, copy NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI, which is:

BOOT.INI

QUOTE

[Boot Loader]
Timeout=15
Default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[Operating Systems]
c:\grldr="Start GRUB"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="GUI Setup" /FASTDETECT

If you are going to install on another partition/disk amend entries to reflect that.

Copy GRLDR to the root of stick and create

MENU.LST

QUOTE

color black/cyan yellow/cyan
timeout 15

default 0

title Phase 1 WinXP Text Mode Setup
chainloader (hd0,0)/ntldrstp

Create a folder BOOTFILES in root, and copy NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and your custom BOOT.INI which will be copied on hard disk. Set them system, hidden and read-only in advance.

BOOT.INI

QUOTE

[boot loader]
timeout=15
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="XP Professional 0 1" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="XP Professional 0 2" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)\WINDOWS="XP Professional 0 3" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="XP Professional 1 1" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINDOWS="XP Professional 1 2" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(3)\WINDOWS="XP Professional 1 3" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

In $WIN_NT$.~LS make a new folder if you don't have already $OEM$ and create in it

CMDLINES.TXT

QUOTE

[COMMANDS]
"BOOT_REN.CMD"

In the same folder create

BOOT_REN.CMD

QUOTE

@echo off
SET TAGFILE=\BOOTFILES
FOR %%h IN (C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y) DO IF EXIST "%%h:%TAGFILE%" SET USBDRIVE=%%h:
xcopy %USBDRIVE%\bootfiles\*.* %SYSTEMDRIVE%\ /y /h /r /k
exit

Leave space between %SYSTEMDRIVE%\ and /y /h /r /k

WINNT.SIF

QUOTE

[data]
msdosinitiated="1"
floppyless="1"
AutoPartition="0"
UseSignatures="no"
InstallDir="\WINDOWS"
EulaComplete="1"
winntupgrade="no"
win9xupgrade="no"
Win32Ver="a280105"
uniqueid="C:\WINDOWS\NKH"
OriSrc="A:\i386"
OriTyp="5"

[unattended] section and oempreinstall=yes is not needed.

The rest is same as the first guide. This way GRUB mapping is not used, and once GUI setup is completed USB stick is no longer needed, we have brand new shining BOOT.INI along with all necessary boot files on the hard disk.

ilko_t

May 15 2007, 05:27 AM

Some help needed here:
I did a few attempts to resolve the long wait at T-1, used only write protection in MIGRATE.INF. No files are deleted during TXT part. I added these lines to BOOT_REN.CMD :

QUOTE

ECHO %TIME% > %SYSTEMDRIVE%\CMDLINES.LOG
ren %USBDRIVE%\$WIN_NT$.~BT WIN_NT.BT
ren %USBDRIVE%\$WIN_NT$.~LS WIN_NT.LS

and created UNDOREN.CMD, which is executed by [GUIRunOnce] in WINNT.SIF along with the relevant entries in TXTSETUP.SIF
UNDOREN.CMD

QUOTE

@echo off
SET TAGFILE=\BOOTFILES
FOR %%h IN (C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y) DO IF EXIST "%%h:%TAGFILE%" SET USBDRIVE=%%h:
ren %USBDRIVE%\WIN_NT.BT $WIN_NT$.~BT
ren %USBDRIVE%\WIN_NT.LS $WIN_NT$.~LS
exit

TXTSETUP.SIF and $WIN_NT$.~LS get deleted, $WIN_NT$.~BT - not

Removed UNDOREN.CMD and can confirm WIN_NT.BT is on stick, properly renamed.
This means for me that either $WIN_NT$.~LS was deleted earlier, before T-1, or is in use or somehow protected and script cannot rename it on time.

Here is result of exact time when BOOT_REN.CMD is executed as logged in CMDLINES.LOG:

QUOTE

1:31:28.95

Here is part of SETUPLOG.TXT

CODE

05/15/2007 01:31:22.656,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,5948,END_SECTION,DoRunonce
05/15/2007 01:31:22.656,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,5957,BEGIN_SECTION,Configuring Setup
05/15/2007 01:31:23.046,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\services.c,334,,MyChangeServiceConfig: LockingServiceDatabase for service Spooler
05/15/2007 01:31:23.062,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\services.c,408,,MyChangeServiceConfig: Unlocked ServiceDatabase for service Spooler
05/15/2007 01:31:23.062,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\printer.c,131,,StartSpooler: Just opened service Spooler
05/15/2007 01:31:23.062,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\printer.c,134,,StartSpooler: Just started service Spooler, ret=0, error=1056
05/15/2007 01:31:23.062,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\printer.c,253,,StartSpooler: Just closed service handler Spooler
05/15/2007 01:31:23.234,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\services.c,334,,MyChangeServiceConfig: LockingServiceDatabase for service EventLog
05/15/2007 01:31:23.250,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\services.c,408,,MyChangeServiceConfig: Unlocked ServiceDatabase for service EventLog
05/15/2007 01:31:23.250,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\services.c,334,,MyChangeServiceConfig: LockingServiceDatabase for service ClipSrv
05/15/2007 01:31:23.250,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\services.c,408,,MyChangeServiceConfig: Unlocked ServiceDatabase for service ClipSrv
05/15/2007 01:31:23.250,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\services.c,334,,MyChangeServiceConfig: LockingServiceDatabase for service NetDDE
05/15/2007 01:31:23.250,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\services.c,408,,MyChangeServiceConfig: Unlocked ServiceDatabase for service NetDDE
05/15/2007 01:31:23.250,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\services.c,334,,MyChangeServiceConfig: LockingServiceDatabase for service NetDDEdsdm
05/15/2007 01:31:23.250,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\services.c,408,,MyChangeServiceConfig: Unlocked ServiceDatabase for service NetDDEdsdm
05/15/2007 01:31:23.265,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,3794,BEGIN_SECTION,Loading service pack (phase 4)
05/15/2007 01:31:23.265,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,3796,END_SECTION,Loading service pack (phase 4)
05/15/2007 01:31:23.265,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,3803,BEGIN_SECTION,Network setup handling Internet Server issues
05/15/2007 01:31:23.265,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,3809,END_SECTION,Network setup handling Internet Server issues
05/15/2007 01:31:23.281,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,3836,BEGIN_SECTION,Setting up virtual memory
05/15/2007 01:31:23.296,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,SetUpVirtualMemory: ENTER

05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,BuildVolumeFreeSpaceList: C:\, spc=8, bps=512, freeclus=1042209, totalclus=1279167

05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,BuildVolumeFreeSpaceList: C:\, FreeSpace = 04268888064

05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,BuildVolumeFreeSpaceList: C:\ had 120586240 byte pagefile, new FreeSpace = 194507008

05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,BuildVolumeFreeSpaceList: Free space on C:\ is 4186 MB

05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,BuildVolumeFreeSpaceList: U:\, spc=64, bps=512, freeclus=48429, totalclus=62454

05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,BuildVolumeFreeSpaceList: U:\, FreeSpace = 01586921472

[b]05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,BuildVolumeFreeSpaceList: Free space on U:\ is 1513 MB[/b]

05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,SetUpVirtualMemory: loc 1

05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,Setup configured the system to place a 1536 MB pagefile on drive C:.

05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,Crashdump was enabled.

05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,SetUpVirtualMemory: EXIT (1)

05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,3844,END_SECTION,Setting up virtual memory
05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,3855,BEGIN_SECTION,Processing [RunPrograms] section
05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,3857,END_SECTION,Processing [RunPrograms] section
05/15/2007 01:31:28.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,2622,,Power scheme: desktop.
05/15/2007 01:31:28.875,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,2626,,SetActivePwrScheme succeeded.
05/15/2007 01:31:29.140,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,The external program boot_ren.cmd returned exit code 0.

05/15/2007 01:31:29.187,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,The external program rundll32 advpack.dll,LaunchINFSection nLite.inf,U returned exit code 0.

05/15/2007 01:31:29.187,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,3915,BEGIN_SECTION,Saving hives
05/15/2007 01:31:29.203,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,3929,END_SECTION,Saving hives
05/15/2007 01:31:29.203,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,3958,BEGIN_SECTION,Copying optional directories
05/15/2007 01:31:29.203,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,3963,END_SECTION,Copying optional directories
05/15/2007 01:31:29.203,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,5959,END_SECTION,Configuring Setup
05/15/2007 01:31:29.218,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,5964,BEGIN_SECTION,Configuring Common
05/15/2007 01:31:29.218,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,4231,BEGIN_SECTION,Generating security templates
05/15/2007 01:31:38.906,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,4233,END_SECTION,Generating security templates
05/15/2007 01:31:38.906,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\copy.c,627,,SETUP: Marked file perfmon.msc read-only
05/15/2007 01:31:38.921,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,5966,END_SECTION,Configuring Common
05/15/2007 01:31:38.937,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6065,BEGIN_SECTION,Fix the security on <All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows NT>
05/15/2007 01:31:38.937,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,Setup invoked the external program shmgrate.exe Fix-HTML-Help.

05/15/2007 01:31:38.937,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6067,END_SECTION,Fix the security on <All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows NT>
05/15/2007 01:31:38.937,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6072,BEGIN_SECTION,Migrating exception packages
05/15/2007 01:31:38.937,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6074,END_SECTION,Migrating exception packages
05/15/2007 01:31:38.953,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6090,BEGIN_SECTION,Running SFC
05/15/2007 01:31:39.000,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\registry.c,1551,BEGIN_SECTION,DeleteCurrentProductIdInRegistry
05/15/2007 01:31:39.015,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\registry.c,1564,END_SECTION,DeleteCurrentProductIdInRegistry
05/15/2007 01:31:39.015,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6216,BEGIN_SECTION,Saving repair info
05/15/2007 01:31:42.734,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6218,END_SECTION,Saving repair info
05/15/2007 01:31:42.734,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6227,BEGIN_SECTION,Removing Temporary Files
05/15/2007 01:31:42.750,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\utils.cpp,18,,Setup: Activationrequired
05/15/2007 01:31:42.843,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,4904,,Setup: (Information) activation icons removed

05/15/2007 01:31:42.859,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\cmdline.c,228,,SETUP: SpSetupLoadParameter was unable to find DynamicUpdateAdditionalPostGuiDrivers.
05/15/2007 01:32:04.421,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,5416,BEGIN_SECTION,Setting up Crash Recovery
05/15/2007 01:32:04.437,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,5420,END_SECTION,Setting up Crash Recovery
05/15/2007 01:32:08.234,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6245,END_SECTION,Removing Temporary Files
05/15/2007 01:32:08.234,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6252,,SETUP: CallSceSetupRootSecurity completed
05/15/2007 01:32:08.234,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6269,,SETUP: Changing registry quota from 111848106 to 55924053...
05/15/2007 01:32:08.234,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6274,,SETUP: ... succeeded
05/15/2007 01:32:08.234,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\services.c,496,,SetupStartService: Sending StartService to <Eventlog>

05/15/2007 01:32:08.234,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\services.c,498,,SetupStartService: Sent StartService to <Eventlog>

05/15/2007 01:32:08.234,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\welcome.c,934,END_SECTION,Copying Files Page
05/15/2007 01:32:08.234,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6294,END_SECTION,FinishThread
05/15/2007 01:32:08.234,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\welcome.c,1096,BEGIN_SECTION,Finish Page
05/15/2007 01:32:08.250,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6640,END_SECTION,Wizard
05/15/2007 01:32:08.250,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6644,BEGIN_SECTION,Recovery
05/15/2007 01:32:08.250,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6648,END_SECTION,Recovery
05/15/2007 01:32:08.250,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\syssetup.c,6650,BEGIN_SECTION,Shutdown
[b]05/15/2007 01:32:08.250,d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\log.c,133,,GUI mode Setup has finished.[/b]

Note that at 01:31:28.859 SETUP reports free space on stick as its supposed to be if no files were deleted. Either that's incorrect or $WIN_NT$.~LS is deleted after 01:31:28.859 (about T-12- T-8). Or as I think folder is in use and cannot be renamed on time. May be one can spot something in the log.
Also, the idea to remove stick during T-1 to avoid long wait seems not so good, I can see SETUP is still doing something else at that stage, apart form deleting temp files.

Any ideas how to proceed further?

@Jaclaz - if you are still interested the attached files contains MBR and bootsector saved by HDhacker when formated by PEtoUSB and rewritten by TEXT mode SETUP.

@wimp - The IDs you have are for SIS IDE, and I can't see them in generic XP SP2 CD TXTSETUP.SIF HIDs, that means for me probably that yours are splipstreamed in your CD, SISIDE.SYS, which is later renamed and copied as NTBOOTDD.SYS. Can you search in your TXTSETUP.SIF on the CD for VEN_1039&DEV_5513 and give all results here?

wimb

May 15 2007, 06:48 AM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 15 2007, 01:27 PM)

@wimp - The IDs you have are for SIS IDE, and I can't see them in generic XP SP2 CD TXTSETUP.SIF HIDs, that means for me probably that yours are splipstreamed in your CD, SISIDE.SYS, which is later renamed and copied as NTBOOTDD.SYS. Can you search in your TXTSETUP.SIF on the CD for VEN_1039&DEV_5513 and give all results here?

My setup files are slipstreamed with RVM Integrator.
A search for VEN_1039&DEV_5513 in the TXTSETUP.SIF for my slipstreamed and my generic XP SP2 CD
gives the same result: the entry is not found.
The entry can be found in the pcidevs.txt file http://members.datafast.net.au/dft0802/downloads/pcidevs.txt

Your solutions for the SATA problem and the boot.ini issue are very interesting.

I will let you know the test results for my case as soon as possible.

wimb

May 15 2007, 11:57 AM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 15 2007, 12:54 PM)

Mistery solved

Here is what I did to overcome signature problem in BOOT.INI and make the installation as universal as possible.

Stick is formated by PE2USB, copy NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and BOOT.INI, which is:

I have used and tested the new procedure to overcome the boot.ini issue.
I have used the HP USB Disk Format tool instead of PE2USB ( Did you mean PeToUsb ? )
because PE2USB did not remove the MBR installed GRUB4DOS.

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 15 2007, 12:54 PM)

Create a folder BOOTFILES in root, and copy NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and your custom BOOT.INI which will be copied on hard disk. Set them system, hidden and read-only in advance.

Why are NTDETECT.COM and NTLDR copied by BOOT_REN.CMD from BOOTFILES to SYSTEMDRIVE ?
They will be present there already.

I came through the Windows Setup procedure, but obtained a boot.ini with two entries as given below:
BOOT.INI on Laptop produced by WinXP Setup

QUOTE

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

Interesting is that the earlier NTBOOTDD.SYS file is absent in this case !
And there is no signature( ... ) ... entry anymore in boot.ini.
The default entry does not work: Windows won't start due to disc geometry problem.
But the second ( normal) entry works fine.

So the new procedure is not yet perfect, but works for me,
and it remains confusing for me how and when this boot.ini was made ...
Because according to the BOOT_REN.CMD , I would expect something else appearing.

ilko_t

May 15 2007, 12:25 PM

QUOTE

Did you mean PeToUsb

Sorry, yes, I will edit the long post.

QUOTE

Why are NTDETECT.COM and NTLDR copied by BOOT_REN.CMD from BOOTFILES to SYSTEMDRIVE ?

In a few cases I noticed that they are not written there, but may be SETUP tried to put them on stick or skipped because saw them on stick. That way we are sure everything needed to boot is in place.

QUOTE

I came through the Windows Setup procedure, but obtained a boot.ini with two entries as given below:...

rdisk(1) is because no mapping is made via GRUB, that was the reason we used map (hd0) (hd1) in the previous guide. It also won't add signature, because no mapping is made and SETUP sees the disks as they are.
The working line rdisk(0) I beleive is a copy of the one on the USB stick, I have no idea when SETUP adds it, but I noticed the same behavior. If mapping was used on my last test it was ending with signature and disk couldn't be booted with that signature, no idea why it worked before. That's why I decided to be brutal and replace the whole BOOT.INI as this would resolve all issues with it.

Your BOOT.INI was not copied, I believe CMDLINES was not set up properly, or switches in WINNT.SIF were missing. I am going to repeat all this step by step to make sure I haven't missed anything when was writing the post.
Thanks for your time

edit: Are you sure that CMDLINES.TXT and BOOT_REN.CMD were placed in the right subfolder \$WIN_NT$.~LS\$OEM$ ?
edit2: Ahh, silly me

I missed to copy the tag. Post edited.

CMDLINES.TXT

QUOTE

[COMMANDS]
"BOOT_REN.CMD"

wimb

May 15 2007, 03:21 PM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 15 2007, 08:25 PM)

CMDLINES.TXT

QUOTE

[COMMANDS]
"BOOT_REN.CMD"

Adding the missing [COMMANDS] tag, solved the problem !

Everything is working now as expected.

@ilko_t - Since you have solved also the SATA problem, it seems we are ready for really using the
bootable USB-stick as a device for installing Windows XP on the harddisk of any computer,
provided the BIOS supports booting from USB-stick.

@ilko_t and @jaclaz :
I am trying now to make a MultiBoot USB-stick with:
1. Unattended Install of Windows XP on Harddisk with Updates and DriverPacks Integrated
http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/index.php?sid=...490d2bd5184b68a and
http://unattended.msfn.org/unattended.xp/ and http://driverpacks.net/DriverPacks/overview.php
2. Booting from DOS, with Ghost for System Backup and System Restore
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...=19621&st=7
3. Adding WPI for Automatic Install of Additional Programs http://wpiw.net/
4. Unattended Install of Office 2003 with Updates Integrated http://www.siginetsoftware.com/forum/
5. Adding WinTools running direct from USB-stick using nu2menu http://www.dirk-loss.de/win-tools.htm

For BartPE it seems that booting from USB-stick is too slow (20 minutes) to be interesting,
as compared to BartPE booting in 2 minutes from DVD. http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/
Or do you have a solution for making BartPE boot faster from a USB-stick ?

It is a great solution, Thanks a lot for everything

ilko_t

May 16 2007, 05:45 PM

Hi wimb, I am glad it worked fine

Sorry about the messy post of mine

I beleive this topic, as well as Grub4Dos README.TXT will give you the ideas how to launch Ghost.

About the slow boot- it's because your motherboard supports USB1.1 boot only, once control is passed to a USB2 driver it operates at it's full speed. Bart PE loads much more before USB2 driver is loaded (may be driver could made to load earlier?) than XP Setup.
My laptop Dell Inspiron 6000 supports USB2 boot and believe me XP setup loads in a flash, no more than 10-12 secs. I can't read the names of the drivers being loaded, whereas on the Gygabyte DS3P and Abit AN7 motherboards it's much much slower. Bart PE loads at horrible speed too on them.
Once USB driver takes control it's fast again.
I have written recently to Gigabyte support about that, in the first few responses they had no idea what I was talking about, once we made it clear no more responses

... for now. I also phoned tech. support in UK and the guy got the idea, but only adviced me to unplug all other USB devices and not to use front ports, no difference at all. Next to call is support in Taiwan

Update of BIOSes didn't do any change, for now.

I have just started a new topic in 911cd.net about that, you may keep an eye what is going on :
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=19731

Hopefully we will collect some useful database.

Regards,
ilko

wimb

May 17 2007, 05:48 AM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 17 2007, 01:45 AM)

About the slow boot- it's because your motherboard supports USB1.1 boot only, once control is passed to a USB2 driver it operates at it's full speed. Bart PE loads much more before USB2 driver is loaded (may be driver could made to load earlier?) than XP Setup.

Maybe Bart Lagerweij can make the USB2 driver being earlier effective in booting BartPE.
I have just registered in the CD forum, and will ask him there if this is possible.
I will also present there the relevant data of my motherboard and BIOS.

The motherboard of my Medion MD6100 laptop is equipped with:
BIOS Version PTLTD - 6040000
PhoenixBIOS 4.0 Release 6.0
Ver 1.00PARTTBL
BIOS Date 01/26/03

It supports apparently from the slow (30 minutes) booting of BartPE only USB 1.1 boot.
I have used a Apacer HT203 - 1 GB USB-stick which is very fast and
allows to install Windows XP from bootable USB-stick in only 30 minutes.
So I think in the GUI mode of the setup that USB2.0 is already effective.
In Windows XP the laptop supports USB 2.0

My MultiBoot USB-stick is ready and supports now also DOS with Ghost, and booting with BartPE.

Everything works fine except for the slow booting of BartPE.

wimb

May 18 2007, 01:40 AM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 17 2007, 01:45 AM)

I have just started a new topic in 911cd.net about that, you may keep an eye what is going on :
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=19731

It seems your post at the CD Forum has been removed ...
So I cannot supply there the relevant data of my motherboard for the USB 1.1 boot issue.

wimb

May 18 2007, 06:08 AM

When the new type of boot.ini with the 6 entries is present on the harddisk,
then after booting from the USB-stick, an option to Repair an existing Windows installation ( the 1 1 )
becomes available ( it is the second time when an option R is presented ).

I never use such a repair option, but when you select this option R to repair an existing installation,
the Windows repair takes place as expected, but with an unwanted effect on the USB-stick !

The result is that $WIN_NT$.~BT and $WIN_NT$.~LS folders are deleted and txtsetup.sif in the root directory
of the USB-stick is deleted as well !
Moreover, cmdlines.txt is apparently not executed,
so that the boot.ini ends up with the starting default entry: harddisk 1, partition 1.
After removing the USB-stick and Restart, Windows is not able to start from this default harddisk 1, partition 1 option.
But one can select to start from the harddisk 0, partition 1 so that Windows will start.

It seems that the Write protection of the USB-stick with hiveOEM.inf is not used in this case.
Maybe there is a solution to overcome this problem: Adding hiveOEM.inf in txtsetup.sif for the Repair case ?
When in boot.ini only a single entry with booting from harddisk 0 partition 1 is present,
then the Repair option is not presented, so that the unwanted deletion of the Windows setup files on the
USB-stick wil not take place.

ilko_t

May 18 2007, 09:17 AM

QUOTE (wimb @ May 18 2007, 08:40 AM)

It seems your post at the CD Forum has been removed ...

I can see it, it's the first post in USB booting subforum:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showforum=37

I am still in touch with Gigabyte, surprisingly they are investigating this further

Copy of their last reply:

QUOTE

We also try to use Bart PE to create a USB boot drive. Test on Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3P and Asus P5B-VM motherboard, both motherboards are need take 5 minutes to boot.
Before we start to test, we already set first boot is USB flash memory, and press start button. When system boot in to Microsoft main menu press stopwatch to stop.
Gigabyte motherboard GA-965P-DS3P is taking 6mins and 17 sec, ASUS P5B is taking 6mins and 12 sec.
According to our experience the USB port under DOS mode is run USB 1.1, that’s why the time takes so long.
Regards,
GBT TECH

Well, DOS and Bart PE... at least they are trying, hopefully some progress could be achieved.

QUOTE (wimb @ May 18 2007, 01:08 PM)

That's interesting result, but I believe normal, actually we have never tried so far to use the repair option when SETUP uses different approach. The way now USB write-protect is implemented by MIGRATE.INF and oemHIVES.inf applies only for new installations only. Further investigation will be needed how to fix it, thanks for bringing this up

ilko_t

May 18 2007, 11:47 AM

Hi, this was easy I think

Add the following line in TXTSETUP.SIF :

QUOTE

[HiveInfs.Upgrade]
AddReg = hiveOEM.inf,AddReg

No files were deleted in my tests.

About BOOT.INI- CMDLINES is not executed, I noticed BOOT.INI gets changed 3 times:

1. TEXT Setup adds default entry pointing to the partition it installs on as it sees it, in our case it's rdisk(1), instead of (0) and timeout 1
2. At beginning of GUI Setup same entries, but after PRESETUP.CMD is launched if present, so PRESETUP.CMD won't work for us
3. Before end of GUI Setup, but before CMDLINES is executed if doing clean install. At this stage it (may be only) changes timeout to 30

So if we execute BOOT_REN.CMD at the first logon screen by adding the following lines we should be fine. No need to use CMDLINES anymore, but even if it's used boot files will be rewritten twice if performing an repair. This line is executed in repair mode too.

TXTSETUP.SIF

QUOTE

[SourceDisksFiles]
hiveOEM.inf = 100,,,,,,_x,,3,3
undoUSBWP.reg = 100,,,,,,_x,2,0,0
BOOT_REN.CMD = 100,,,,,,_x,2,0,0

and

WINNT.SIF

QUOTE

[GUIRunOnce]
"%systemdrive%\windows\system32\BOOT_REN.CMD"

May be it's about time to rewrite the guide once we confirm the results

edit: If one uses BTS mass storage DP method 2 and repair install then include the following line in \$WIN_NT$.~LS\I386\PRESETUP.CMD

QUOTE

DEL /F %systemroot%\system32\setupold.exe

or GUI Setup stops at start, complaining about fake setup being executed.

wimb

May 19 2007, 04:30 AM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 18 2007, 07:47 PM)

TXTSETUP.SIF

QUOTE

[SourceDisksFiles]
hiveOEM.inf = 100,,,,,,_x,,3,3
undoUSBWP.reg = 100,,,,,,_x,2,0,0
BOOT_REN.CMD = 100,,,,,,_x,2,0,0

and

WINNT.SIF

QUOTE

[GUIRunOnce]
"%systemdrive%\windows\system32\BOOT_REN.CMD"

May be it's about time to rewrite the guide once we confirm the results

edit: If one uses BTS mass storage DP method 2 and repair install then include the following line in \$WIN_NT$.~LS\I386\PRESETUP.CMD

QUOTE

DEL /F %systemroot%\system32\setupold.exe

or GUI Setup stops at start, complaining about fake setup being executed.

Hi ilko,

I can confirm that the Fresh and the Repair Windows XP Setup, when using the new TXTSETUP.SIF file,
both run fine without deleting anything from the bootable USB-stick.

I have not yet tested the BTS mass storage DP method 2, but will report about that in due time.

Congratulations with the result !

Regards,

wimb

wimb

May 19 2007, 04:46 AM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 18 2007, 05:17 PM)

QUOTE (wimb @ May 18 2007, 08:40 AM)

It seems your post at the CD Forum has been removed ...

I can see it, it's the first post in USB booting subforum:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showforum=37

I am afraid your post is not present anymore. Some days ago I visited the CD Forum and was able to read your post there, but now the 911 CD part of the CD Forum is almost empty ....

Regards, wimb

ilko_t

May 19 2007, 05:31 AM

QUOTE (wimb @ May 19 2007, 11:30 AM)

Hi ilko,

I can confirm that the Fresh and the Repair Windows XP Setup, when using the new TXTSETUP.SIF file,
both run fine without deleting anything from the bootable USB-stick.

I have not yet tested the BTS mass storage DP method 2, but will report about that in due time.

Congratulations with the result !

Hi wimb, nice to read that, in a few days I am going to sum up all changes in a single post, I believe everything is sorted out, except the minor issue with the long delay at T-1.

QUOTE (wimb @ May 19 2007, 11:46 AM)

I am afraid your post is not present anymore. Some days ago I visited the CD Forum and was able to read your post there, but now the 911 CD part of the CD Forum is almost empty ....

Regards, wimb

I think it's still there, check your browser settings, clear cache etc.

Regards,
ilko

wimb

May 19 2007, 07:10 AM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 19 2007, 01:31 PM)

Hi wimb, nice to read that, in a few days I am going to sum up all changes in a single post, I believe everything is sorted out, except the minor issue with the long delay at T-1.

What is the long delay at T-1 issue? I never noticed such a problem.

There is something strange with the CD Forum for me.
After my registration, the CD Forum part of CD Forum is read only for me,
and remains invisible with automatic log on.
Your link is in that case reported as a broken link.
When I logoff, then the CD Forum part is visible with your post, but I am not allowed to reply.

All the other parts of the CD Forum are behaving normally and remain visible after logon !

I cleared my browser history and cache. No change.

ilko_t

May 19 2007, 07:37 AM

At the end of GUI Setup attempts to delete temp. folders, but since they are write-protected it's kinda stuck at this point until time-out occurs and it stops trying. In my tests it takes about 2 to complete that point, if you unplug the stick for example at T-1 or even earlier it' takes like 1 or 2 seconds. That's why in one of the previous posts I tried to rename the 2 folders on USB stick using a simple script in CMDLINES, but only ~BT folder survived. Either SETUP deletes files earlier, before CMDLINES is executed, or when it's executed folder is in use or somehow protected by SETUP, causing rename not to complete. For these tests I left stick unprotected. For now I will not do any other attempts to avoid this, since delay is not severe.

About 911CD forum- I think you haven't received your activation email, if I remember right they are using manual validation, you are able to logon using your user name, but some parts are behaving strangely. I waited more than a week to receive that email and activate the account. In my first attempt few months back email didn't arrive at all, so I had to re-register.

snowden

May 19 2007, 08:59 AM

It seems a bit ridiculous to have to do all these things just to get windows installation started from a usb stick. Is there no way of just copying the \i386 folder from a cdrom (or even an nlite distribution) to the usb stick, and format (or probably 'hex') the ntldr or something to boot the setupldr.bin into the text-phase of setup that normally initializes when you boot from a cd-rom (ie not having to run the winnt.exe)?

For me, using the winnt.exe to install from the usb stick is only a bit of a nuisance at the moment because I haven't found a way to stop it installing the ~BT folder onto the usb stick itself - even when i used the winnt.exe /t:<drive> command. The ~LS folder copies ok to the partition i designate. If the ~BT folder would only copy along with the ~LS folder (to the partition), everything would be fine! I know I could probably copy it across, but the winnt.exe program would already have tampered with the usb stick configuration anyway. It really would make life a lot easier, but as we all know, nothing is ever straightforward!

wimb

May 20 2007, 08:39 AM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 18 2007, 07:47 PM)

edit: If one uses BTS mass storage DP method 2 and repair install then include the following line in \$WIN_NT$.~LS\I386\PRESETUP.CMD

QUOTE

DEL /F %systemroot%\system32\setupold.exe

or GUI Setup stops at start, complaining about fake setup being executed.

Hi ilko,
I can confirm that Windows XP Setup from the bootable USB-stick including the BTS mass storage DP method 2,
is running fine, both in Fresh and in the Repair mode of Windows XP Setup .

I saw in the setuplog.txt file that I have indeed also a long wait of 4 minutes at T-1,
when setup is trying to delete all the files of the $WIN_NT$.~LS and the $WIN_NT$.~BT folders.
But nothing is deleted and it takes only some minutes extra time. So it is no problem.

For the 911CD forum I received an activation email, so now I will be able to reply on your post regarding
motherboard and BIOS data for booting BartPE at USB 2.0 speed.

Regards,

wimb

thomas.night

May 22 2007, 07:35 AM

Could you tidy up this thread, please?
It would be very helpfull for future, but now 'normal user' will not understand anything.
Maybe it's time to make a guide (like Unattended CD/DVD) (?)

Best regards
thomas.night

PS: Sorry for my English, but I am form Poland

buseeliu

May 26 2007, 05:41 AM

QUOTE (snowden @ May 19 2007, 10:59 PM)

i have the same problem also. Still finding the solution currently.

jaclaz

May 26 2007, 08:19 AM

I have been a few days away and I find that a lot of things have progressed.

Congrats to both ilko_t and wimb!

@ilko_t
I had a quick look at your MBR files, as soon as I have time i'll take a closer look and post my findings.

QUOTE (wimb @ May 19 2007, 12:46 PM)

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 18 2007, 05:17 PM)

QUOTE (wimb @ May 18 2007, 08:40 AM)

It seems your post at the CD Forum has been removed ...

I can see it, it's the first post in USB booting subforum:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showforum=37

I am afraid your post is not present anymore. Some days ago I visited the CD Forum and was able to read your post there, but now the 911 CD part of the CD Forum is almost empty ....

Regards, wimb

wimb, he thread you are referring to is this one:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...c=19731&hl=
(exactly as ilko_t originally referred it to be)
As a general rule, always reference to a thread by it's ID rather that the page where you have seen it listed, posts may be moved around, particularly the 911CD forum has made a new subforum dedicated to USB booting, so posts are being moved from less relevant areas and put in the new one.

@snowden
As said before, there is the alternate method here using winnt.exe:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=16713
that of course does not create the "the ~BT folder onto the usb stick itself"
and that can easily be fully automated via batch file.
Moreover, as hinted here, it has the advantage of keeping install files on HD:
http://www.msfn.org/board/I386_folder_t98414.html

@buseeliu
I don't get it

, you join the board and post here just to say:
"Look guys, your method is not good, too difficult, I have no alternate solution, so I cannot help, just wanted to let you know that I am looking for another way?"

jaclaz

snowden

May 26 2007, 12:30 PM

QUOTE

@snowden
As said before, there is the alternate method here using winnt.exe:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=16713
that of course does not create the "the ~BT folder onto the usb stick itself"
and that can easily be fully automated via batch file.

jaclaz: not to be ungrateful, but i read this guide already. contrary to what impression you might have of me, i have read every single one of the links you have given me, even the ones that lead to other forums. But thank you, I do know now how to copy the files across to my hard drive first.
But this still doesn't solve the problem; because I am using a usb stick, I might be waiting about 15 minutes before all of the files have copied across to the HD - kind of defeating the whole purpose.

All the other links you have shown me don't seem to point to anything other than using BartPE or pe2usb, again thwarting any efforts to make windows setup any simpler. It seems to me everybody is pointing everyone else to a pile of links that all lead to the same BartPE or pe2usb methods, which in my opinion I would ditch any day for installing windows via the winnt.exe method (as long as I had the option of course)!
It would take me about as long to copy windows install files across from my usb to my HD, as it would to just run winnt.exe from the usb key itself and put up with the ~BT folder being created on it[self]. This doesn't even include the time it takes just to copy the install files onto the usb iteslf within windows (before booting from it). This is the primary reason why I would like windows to 'begin' from the usb key in the same manner a cdrom installation does; i.e. NO 'initial' temporary file-copying procedure.

In light of this, I read the post about changing the setupldr.bin to ntldr,
http://www.msfn.org/board/boot-install-USB-key-t61384.html
but it seems to lead me bak off to the BartPE/pe2usb methods. Could you please point me to a specific link if you can, because I keep being led astray with all the links everywhere!

Thanks again for your help.

jaclaz

May 26 2007, 01:51 PM

QUOTE (snowden)

But this still doesn't solve the problem; because I am using a usb stick, I might be waiting about 15 minutes before all of the files have copied across to the HD - kind of defeating the whole purpose.

Yep, never said it was faster!

All the idea of trying to find other methods was behind the fact that that method wasn't perfect.

The link you posted does not work, a "tentative" list of possible methods is here:
http://www.msfn.org/board/Installing_Unatt...8.html&st=6

Are you referring to method #3?

Nothing has been done for a long time, but do have a look at it, the original thread is here:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=17425

I am quite sure that it would be possible to write from scratch a somewhat smarter "loader" or "setup" program running under DOS for 2K/XP, or somehow modify the original files as you suggested, but I am afraid it is far above my capabilities to contribute anything useful on that.

Most probably there are some other possibilities, for example finding a way (HXdos?) to run WINNT32.EXE instead of WINNT.EXE on a DOS based OS booted from the stick could resolve the problem of the ~BT folder using the /makelocalsource switch pointing to the HD....
...or finding a way to boot from the .ISO image of the CD saved on the stick....

Every idea, suggestion and contribution is welcome, even if it eventually it leads to a dead end, every attempt helps understanding something more about the way install works and hopefully will make new ideas/methods come to mind.

jaclaz

ilko_t

May 26 2007, 02:38 PM

Here is the edited guide for Windows XP SP2, on 2k/2k3 should work too.

1. Format stick using PEtoUSB or any other utility of your choice, which makes it bootable with 2k/XP boot sector
2. Copy NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR to root and create BOOT.INI

BOOT.INI

CODE

[Boot Loader]
Timeout=15
Default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[Operating Systems]
c:\grldr="Start GRUB"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="GUI Setup" /FASTDETECT

If you are going to install on another partition/disk amend entries to reflect that.

Make sure you can boot from stick and reach the menu.

3. Get the latest GRUB4DOS and copy GRLDR to the USB root. If you have any issues use the last stable version. Create in USB stick root

MENU.LST

CODE

color black/cyan yellow/cyan
timeout 15

default 0

title Phase 1 WinXP Text Mode Setup
chainloader (hd0,0)/setupldr.bin

4. Backup your local BOOT.INI and in the XP setup folder \I386 run

CODE

winnt32 /makelocalsource /noreboot

after it's finished restore BOOT.INI you backed up.

5. Copy two new folders onto the USB stick root - $WIN_NT$.~BT and $WIN_NT$.~LS

6. In \$WIN_NT$.~BT modify

WINNT.SIF

CODE

[data]
msdosinitiated="1"
floppyless="1"
AutoPartition="0"
UseSignatures="no"
InstallDir="\WINDOWS"
winntupgrade="no"
win9xupgrade="no"

[GuiRunOnce]
"regedit /s %systemdrive%\windows\system32\undoUSBWP.reg"
"%systemdrive%\windows\system32\BOOTFLS.CMD"

and

MIGRATE.INF

CODE

[Version]
Signature = "$Windows NT$"

[Addreg]
HKLM,"SYSTEM\MountedDevices",,0x00000010
HKLM,"SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\StorageDevicePolicies","WriteProtect",%REG_DWORD%,1

[Strings]
;Handy macro substitutions (non-localizable)
REG_SZ              = 0x00000000
REG_BINARY          = 0x00000001
REG_DWORD           = 0x00010001
REG_MULTI_SZ        = 0x00010000
REG_SZ_APPEND       = 0x00010008
REG_EXPAND_SZ       = 0x00020000

If you wish to preserve your USB storage drive letter use CDOB's script to create MIGRATE.INF, don't forget to add the above entries :

MkMigratgeInf.cmd

CODE

@echo off
REM MkMigratgeInf.cmd v0.01
REM created by cdob

setlocal EnableExtensions

set Drive=%~d1
if %Drive%.==. set Drive=%~d0

set FileName=%~2
if %FileName%.==. set FileName=MIGRATE.INF.TXT

set MigrateDrive=U:
if not %~d3.==. set MigrateDrive=%~d3

set Value=
FOR /F "skip=2 tokens=1-2*" %%a IN ('reg query HKLM\System\MountedDevices /v \DosDevices\%Drive%') DO set Value=%%c

if %Value%.==. (echo drive settings %Drive% not found & goto :EOF)

set MigrateStr=%Value:~0,2%
set count=2
:begin_parse
  call :exec set MidStr=%%Value:~%count%,2%%
  if %MidStr%.==. goto :exit_parse
  set MigrateStr=%MigrateStr%,%MidStr%
  set /a count+=2
  goto begin_parse
:exit_parse

(echo [Version]
echo Signature = "$Windows NT$"
echo.
echo [Addreg]
echo HKLM,"SYSTEM\MountedDevices","\DosDevices\%MigrateDrive%",0x00030001,\
echo %MigrateStr%)>%FileName%

goto :EOF

:exec
  %*
goto :EOF

7. Create a folder BOOTFILES in USB stick root, and copy NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and create there your custom BOOT.INI, which will be copied on hard disk later, during the first logon. Set them system, hidden and read-only in advance.

BOOT.INI

CODE

8. Create:

undoUSBWP.reg

CODE

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\StorageDevicePolicies]
"WriteProtect"="0"

hiveOEM.inf

CODE

[Version]
Signature = "$Windows NT$"
DriverVer=07/01/2001,5.1.2600.2180

[AddReg]
;WriteProtect USB
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\StorageDevicePolicies","WriteProtect",0x10001,1

and

BOOTFLS.CMD

CODE

and place them in $WIN_NT$.~LS\i386

9. Copy TXTSETUP.SIF and SETUPLDR.BIN from \$WIN_NT$.~BT to root of USB stick and add the following lines to

TXTSETUP.SIF

CODE

[SourceDisksFiles].....
.....
hiveOEM.inf = 100,,,,,,_x,,3,3
undoUSBWP.reg = 100,,,,,,_x,2,0,0
BOOTFLS.CMD = 100,,,,,,_x,2,0,0
....
....
[HiveInfs.Fresh]
AddReg = hiveOEM.inf,AddReg

[HiveInfs.Upgrade]
AddReg = hiveOEM.inf,AddReg

--------
Install XP and leave stick plugged in until after the first logon screen.

Notes:
1. If you use an answer file when launching WINNT32.EXE make sure you delete the whole [Unattend] section in WINNT.SIF, otherwise you won't be able to use System Restore and SETUP will not prompt on which partition to install.
2. If you use BTS mass storage DP method 2 and repair install then include the following line in \$WIN_NT$.~LS\I386\PRESETUP.CMD

CODE

DEL /F %systemroot%\system32\setupold.exe

or GUI Setup stops at start, complaining about fake setup being executed.
3. If during TEXT MODE your usb stick is listed first when SETUP searches for disks , above SATA/SCSI disks, disable in BIOS IDE channels including the ones with CDROM/DVD attached or disconnect them, this should fix the order. Do not continue install if stick is listed first, this will corrupt files and MBR on it.
------------------------------------

All credits for the most important part- how to write- protect the USB flash go to cdob

Many thanks to jaclaz, wimb and porear

ilko_t

May 26 2007, 03:18 PM

@snowden- the problem when using ntldr and ntdetect.com to boot from stick or setupldr.bin renamed /ntdetect.com is that USB stick is second hard drive as seen and enumerated by them, but setupldr.bin expects files to be on first hard drive. Using GRUB overrides this issue. Unless modified/other/new boot files mentioned are used I don't see a way to fix this issue.

Copying the whole contents of XP CDROM and patching setupldr.bin will save you no more than 2-3 minutes, the time to create $WIN_NT$.~BT and $WIN_NT$.~LS by WINNT32.EXE, but may lead to other issues or incompatibility. I prefer not to use patched files when possible. Surely any other ideas are welcome, as long as this would save time and give better results.

Another idea, which will save you all the steps above is to create an image of a hard disk prepared with $WIN_NT$.~BT and $WIN_NT$.~LS (check winnt32 switches and /system in particular ) folders and place the image from USB using your favorite imaging program, either from PE or from DOS/LINUX. When working with large files USB sticks are usually much faster.
Using Bart PE and running winnt32.exe has always been an option and gives greater flexibility.

snowden

May 26 2007, 03:32 PM

QUOTE (jaclaz @ May 26 2007, 08:51 PM)

Yep, never said it was faster!

The answer to this is 'yes'. But (as I think I already mentioned) they appear to lead back onto grub4dos and other methods.

QUOTE (jaclaz @ May 26 2007, 08:51 PM)

I am quite sure that it would be possible to write from scratch a somewhat smarter "loader" or "setup" program running under DOS for 2K/XP, or somehow modify the original files as you suggested, but I am afraid it is far above my capabilities to contribute anything useful on that.

I would have thought that whoever came up with the idea of using grub to load the setupldr.bin would (and should!) probably have the technical know-how to hex the ntldr/make a bootsector for usbkeys, that allows to boot setup from a usb with just the i386 folder present (similar to a cdrom)! But as you say, they probably would have done it by now considering it is a whole lot easier a method (although probably not easier to code unless you know about MBRs and so on). For example, just take a look at this MBR help guide 'secrets revealed'; doesn't mean anything to me but might tip somebody in the right direction who knows!

http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3/asm/m...R_in_detail.htm

snowden

May 26 2007, 03:50 PM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 26 2007, 10:18 PM)

@ilko_t - I see. But if you are running setup booting from a cdrom, how does the setupldr.bin enumerate this? How does it know the cdrom is the 'first hard drive'?
I just have to say this again in case, and to ask: is the setupldr.bin looking for setup files on the first harddrive when running setup via winnt.exe, or via the method of setup that seems to boot straight to the text phase like when starting from cdrom? Because the latter is what I want to happen when booting setup from a usb stick...

ilko_t

May 26 2007, 04:06 PM

QUOTE (snowden @ May 26 2007, 10:50 PM)

... But if you are running setup booting from a cdrom, how does the setupldr.bin enumerate this? ...

As CDROM I think, which is different than USB stick, seen as hard drive/removable storage. If you "fool" SETUP USB stick to appear as CDROM- GRUB gives some options via mapping, but have no idea will it be possible as of now- the issue will be solved.

Another way is if Grub4Dos or other bootloader fully supports ISO boot, then we can simply copy the ISO file and call it. Again no idea how to do it, it may be possible.

QUOTE (snowden @ May 26 2007, 10:50 PM)

I just have to say this again in case, and to ask: is the setupldr.bin looking for setup files on the first harddrive when running setup via winnt.exe, or via the method of setup that seems to boot straight to the text phase like when starting from cdrom? Because the latter is what I want to happen when booting setup from a usb stick...

Sorry, I didn't get this, winnt.exe is just preparing the disk for the next stage- TEXT mode, has nothing to do with setupldr.bin in that stage and the order disks are found.

buseeliu

May 26 2007, 10:18 PM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 27 2007, 05:18 AM)

the problem when using ntldr and ntdetect.com to boot from stick or setupldr.bin renamed /ntdetect.com is that USB stick is second hard drive as seen and enumerated by them, but setupldr.bin expects files to be on first hard drive. --> this is the main point

buseeliu

May 26 2007, 11:27 PM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 27 2007, 04:38 AM)

Here is the edited guide for Windows XP SP2, on 2k/2k3 should work too.

4. Backup your local BOOT.INI and in the XP setup folder \I386 run

CODE

winnt32 /makelocalsource /noreboot

after it's finished restore BOOT.INI you backed up.

I should run this command within the existing window xp or from dos command booting from windwo xp setup cd or booting from the usb stick ? thanks for your kind reply

wimb

May 27 2007, 12:42 AM

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 26 2007, 10:38 PM)

Here is the edited guide for Windows XP SP2, on 2k/2k3 should work too.

Thank you ilko_t for combining all the experience into one good guide for installing Windows XP from
a bootable USB-stick. I think this is very usefull guide for everybody.
Link to the guide: http://www.msfn.org/board/boot_install_USB...html&st=199

I am very happy that we can now install Windows XP from a bootable USB-stick
and that all problems concerning this subject are solved !

ilko_t

May 27 2007, 03:41 AM

QUOTE (buseeliu @ May 27 2007, 06:27 AM)

I should run this command within the existing window xp or from dos command booting from windwo xp setup cd or booting from the usb stick ? thanks for your kind reply

All the steps are being done within working XP. You need to run that from command prompt of your local XP setup folder. An easy way to do that is by adding this registry info:

CMDHERE.REG

CODE

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Directory\shell\Command Prompt Here]
@="Command &Prompt Here"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Directory\shell\Command Prompt Here\command]
@="cmd.exe /k cd %1 "

When you import it you may right-click on the desired forder (I386) and from the context menu select OPEN COMMAND WINDOW HERE.

@wimb- I just hope I did not make typos or missed a thing, as I usually do

jaclaz

May 27 2007, 07:26 AM

@snowden
the problem is not actually in the bootsector, as said it is very easy to rename setupldr.bin to NTLDR and load it with a "normal" bootsector. The way (direct with renaming, grub4dos or other bootmanager, custom written bootsector) is irrelevant.

Problem is the way the actual install process "detects" having NOT being booted from CD-ROM.

If you want to experiment a bit, Gray on 911CD forum explained how to hexedit setupldr.bin so that it will use files on \I386 even on hard disk (or stick):
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...3784&st=249

Possibly using this approach (and optionally using the Dietmar's modified NTDETECT.COM) could lead to some result.

Another possible thing one could test (again FAR above my capabilities) would be to use some kind of "upper filters" or something similar to a modified dummydisk.sys driver:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...181&st=1954
to trick, at least the GUI part of setup to believe files are on a CD-ROM.

Finally there is this (rather apodiptical, if I may) post by Disabled Trucker, that got NO followings:
http://www.msfn.org/board/boot_install_USB...html&st=104

About the use of a PE environment as said my best bet is on a VERY minimal build, the Winbuilder project has gone as low as 15 Mbytes for a really minimal booting environment with CMD.EXE as shell, since all we need to do is to properly run WINNT32.EXE my guess that a not much bigger build would be needed.
I tried to start something out of it, here:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=644
but as often happens, everyone agrees, and noone actually does anything to contribute.

However the Winbuilder projects have recently entered a more stable level, and a lot of refining work has been made, so I am still ( maybe optimistically) convinced that someone will soon take the challenge and hopefully deliver some results.

jaclaz

cdob

May 27 2007, 02:45 PM

Main idea:
satisfy setupldr.bin, ntdetect.com and get rdisk(0):
Map a boot image to a floppy drive.
Swap USB and internal drive.
A hdx is NOT doubled used, this may be a secure approach.

CODE

map /boot.img (fd0)
map (hd1) (hd0)
map (hd0) (hd1)

$WIN_NT$.~BT and $WIN_NT$.~LS are splitted:
\$WIN_NT$.~BT part goes to boot image
\$WIN_NT$.~LS goes to USB drive

I used a floppy image from reanimatolog http://bootcd.narod.ru/images_e.htm
fd011520.zip Floppy image 11.52mb (8x1.44mb)

ImDisk Virtual Disk Driver mount this file. http://www.ltr-data.se/index_en.html
Run ImDiks applet from the Control Panel, mount image. Let's use letter G:

Format virtual drive. This creates a ntldr bootsector.

1) XP installation floppies
KB310994 offers XP installation floppy images. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310994/
Open the six floppy image files at ImDiks and copy files to drive G:

Rename G:\setupldr.bin to ntldr.

hiveOEM.inf goes to G:\txtsetup.sif.

QUOTE (G:\winnt.sif)

[data]
msdosinitiated="1"

QUOTE (menu.lst)

title boot.ima
map --mem /boot.ima (fd0)
map (hd1) (hd0)
map (hd0) (hd1)
map --hook
root (fd0)
chainloader (fd0)+1
rootnoverify (fd0)
map --floppies=1
boot

Setup does boot.
But next a famous BSOD 0x7b Inaccesable boot device does appear.

Can anybody solve this?

New game:

2) Two virtual drives
2003 SP1 setupldr.bin does RAM load a image.
Use 2003 SP1 setupldr.bin and ramdisk.sy_, that's not 2003 SP2 files.

Mount virtual floppy again. Delete all files and add files

QUOTE

ntldr
NTDETECT.COM
winnt.sif
RAMLOAD.IMG

Ntldr is the renamed 2003 SP1 setupldr.bin.

QUOTE (G:\winnt.sif)

[SetupData]
BootDevice = "ramdisk(0)"
BootPath = "\I386\"

;;;OsLoadOptions = "/noguiboot /fastdetect /rdexportascd /rdpath=BOOT.ISO"
OsLoadOptions = "/noguiboot /fastdetect /rdpath=RAMLOAD.IMG /rdimageoffset=0"

[data]
msdosinitiated="1"

G:\RAMLOAD.IMG:
Use ImDisk, create a new virtual image, 10 mb.
Let's use letter H: Format virtual drive.

Copy \$WIN_NT$.~BT\ files to H:\I386\
Copy txtsetup.sif to H:\I386\txtsetup.sif. hiveOEM.inf goes to H:\I386\txtsetup.sif.

XP installation does work. Files goes to a AHCI SATA harddisk.
Boot.ini get rdisk(0). This is NOT rdisk(1).

One drawback:
grub4dos virtual floppy get's drive letter c: Therefore internal harddisk get's d:
Sad, I expected a different behaviour because of floppy mapping.

Does a more experienced grub4dos user have a solution?

Fixing c: at H:\I386\migrate.inf does work too.
However this is not a general soution.
Partition and format at USB XP installation creates a new DiskID.
Fixed c: is not valid anymore.

Random idea:
XP Embedded creates virtual hard disks, including MBR and MountedDevices.
Extract hard disk image: dd if=raminst.sdi of=raminst.img skip=8
More testing time needed.

@snowden
Yes, a working \I386 solution would be nice.
If you provide a working solution, I'll use this happily.

Setupldr.bin support two modes: CD and floppy/harddisk mode.
Selecting mode is unknown. I suspect ntdetect.com hardware findings or different file systems.
IF a BIOS would boot from ISO9660 at USB...
At CD mode folder \I386 is used.
At floppy/harddisk mode folder \$WIN_NT$.~BT, \cmdcons or \minint is used.

But there are more files involved. Setupdd.sys at textmode setup.
Gui mode setup is the next difficulty.

Winnt32 with options syspart and tempdrive copy \$WIN_NT$.~BT and \$WIN_NT$.~LS files to hard disk.
In addition partitin is marked as active.

This can be run from a running PE.

In addition I wonder, what hapens if this is applied to a USB drive?
And windows is installed. Are files deleted at USB drive?

buseeliu

May 27 2007, 10:36 PM

Thks for your answer first.

i have tried your method but it fails. I think i have made any mistake. When i try to install xp, everything seems to be normal at first. However, the system can not boot to setting up window xp after completetly copying all the temp file to harddisk C drive. Just show an error message in the black screen that c:\windows\system32\hal.dll can not be found.

Furthermore, the speed of copying the temp files to Harddisk drive is very slow. The condition just like smartdrv has not been loaded prior to setting up window xp. Is it possible to make the speed of copying temp file faster?

Actually, i can't understand the step 7, can you further explain it? Many many thanks for your reply.

7. Create a folder BOOTFILES in USB stick root, and copy NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and your custom BOOT.INI, which will be copied on hard disk later, during the first logon. Set them system, hidden and read-only in advance.

QUOTE (ilko_t @ May 27 2007, 05:41 PM)

QUOTE (buseeliu @ May 27 2007, 06:27 AM)

I should run this command within the existing window xp or from dos command booting from windwo xp setup cd or booting from the usb stick ? thanks for your kind reply

All the steps are being done within working XP. You need to run that from command prompt of your local XP setup folder. An easy way to do that is by adding this registry info:

CMDHERE.REG

CODE

jaclaz

May 28 2007, 05:24 AM

QUOTE (cdob)

1) XP installation floppies
KB310994 offers XP installation floppy images. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310994/
Open the six floppy image files at ImDiks and copy files to drive G:

Not much, but FYI:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/Recovery-Console-t2254.html

QUOTE (cdob)

....
Setup does boot.
But next a famous BSOD 0x7b Inaccesable boot device does appear.

Can anybody solve this?
.....

Hmmm, cannot say, you could try using direct mapping of the image (it must be contiguous) instead of --mem mapping, but most probably the BSOD happens when the Windows driver "kicks in" and finds No device or a non supported device.

QUOTE (cdob)

One drawback:
grub4dos virtual floppy get's drive letter c: Therefore internal harddisk get's d:
Sad, I expected a different behaviour because of floppy mapping.

Does a more experienced grub4dos user have a solution?

Fixing c: at H:\I386\migrate.inf does work too.
However this is not a general soution.
Partition and format at USB XP installation creates a new DiskID.
Fixed c: is not valid anymore.

Supposing that I can be defined "a more experienced grub4dos user", I am willing to try and help, but I am failing to understand the situation in it's entirety, can you please re-describe this second approach?

What I got:
on the root on the stick there is:
grldr
menu.lst as follows:

CODE

title boot.ima
map --mem /boot.ima (fd0)
map (hd1) (hd0)
map (hd0) (hd1)
map --hook
root (fd0)
chainloader (fd0)+1
rootnoverify (fd0)
map --floppies=1
boot

a super-floppy image "boot.ima" containing:

QUOTE

ntldr
NTDETECT.COM
winnt.sif
RAMLOAD.IMG

(ntldr above is really SETUPLDR.BIN renamed as ntldr, right?)

the "RAMLOAD.IMG" contains:
a dirtectory \I386 containing all files from \$WIN_NT$.~BT\ + txtsetup.sif + hiveOEM.inf

A typo here?:

QUOTE (cdob)

Copy txtsetup.sif to H:\I386\txtsetup.sif. hiveOEM.inf goes to H:\I386\txtsetup.sif.

And grub4dos boots in such a manner that SETUP assigns C:\ to the boot.ima file?

Is the above correct?

QUOTE (cdob)

Random idea:
XP Embedded creates virtual hard disks, including MBR and MountedDevices.
Extract hard disk image: dd if=raminst.sdi of=raminst.img skip=8
More testing time needed.

No need to use XP embedded tools, using VDK.EXE instead of IMDISK it is possible to create and format a full hard disk image (as opposed to single partition image) howto is here (as Trick #3):
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...19056&st=49

If you give me the exact size (in bytes or in 512 sectors) I can prepare a correct MBR and write a few lines of batch to create and format such an image or, alternatively, create such an empty image and send it to you zipped.

jaclaz

ilko_t

May 28 2007, 05:56 AM

@buseeliu

QUOTE

i have tried your method but it fails. I think i have made any mistake. When i try to install xp, everything seems to be normal at first. However, the system can not boot to setting up window xp after completetly copying all the temp file to harddisk C drive. Just show an error message in the black screen that c:\windows\system32\hal.dll can not be found.

I believe your BOOT.INI file points to the wrong partition on the hard disk. Are installing on first hard disk, first partition? If not you need to amend the BOOT.INI on the USB stick.
If that's not the case then did you leave USB stick plugged in?
Please give as much as possible information for your setup, how many partitions, how many hard drives you have, where do you install it on etc.

QUOTE

Actually, i can't understand the step 7, can you further explain it? Many many thanks for your reply.

7. Create a folder BOOTFILES in USB stick root, and copy NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR and your custom BOOT.INI, which will be copied on hard disk later, during the first logon. Set them system, hidden and read-only in advance.

I really don't get what you don't understand in this step

QUOTE

Furthermore, the speed of copying the temp files to Harddisk drive is very slow. The condition just like smartdrv has not been loaded prior to setting up window xp. Is it possible to make the speed of copying temp file faster?

Using winnt.exe or the procedure described? Please try to be as much informative as possible, don't make the other party guessing what you are trying to say.

buseeliu

May 28 2007, 06:46 AM

ilko_t

QUOTE

I believe your BOOT.IN