Hi. I am sending this same message to some people in the forum which have participated on the projects. I must say that all the servicepacks which have been released is too much for any user - skilled or nonskilled.

therefore it will be best to create real developer team

such team needs skilled developers:
Xeno86 for kernel
Tihiy for system extensions
XStyle for new design executables and graphics
allseeing MDGX for consulting
Gape, maximus decim and jimmsta for system components analysis and upgrade (DX, Net, VB, IE)
sopofiric for some kind of patcher/Installer
somebody like philco for localizations
"hardware wiseguy" for driver development? maybe

and me and some other guys for betatesting and feature requests.

I know that all these guys can create their own project, but i can imagine what they can create together.

What do you think about it boys and girls?

Count me in! It sounds good! I hope the other guys will agree with this too..... I think it will be a great chance to make something really nice!

GREAT IDEA ..hopefully some programers are still around after thy "interestin'"sanctions being imposed?***Hopefully can create Win98SE to out do all ever yet created ! ***"IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME!!!" Allow new updates and applications to be tested as before ,by us the REAL home 98SE USER's before decide not proper...it is our system ,our computers at risk...it should be our choice to use or not to use any application or updates at our personal risk for it is us who pay the price of sucess or failure in the longrun!!!I know i have two OLDER computers and if it was not for MSFN/9x-98se forum ...i would be a non-existant decomputer-ized nobody as other systems do not install nor run on these machines (except linux -which eats all resources when runnin' applications too long.....) PRAY thee 98SE programmers stick around-or let us know where they are to keep 98SE in good health........ thydreamwalker P.S.:Thanks to all thee 98SE Gods for their hard work-as all help is appreciated (at least we 98SE users acknowledge thee accomplishments of thee special few!!!*)

So I guess it needs:

-- some good webserver
-- a project leader to make it all happen
-- some cash!

I could offer a little in the third department, and/or maybe someone with a decent existing win98Se oriented website could volunteer.

One project surely must be (ahem) let it be called Open-Source Browser development for win98SE/ME.

at this point it is really only an idea...

but there is a webserver (coming online in few weeks) and there could be place for any further things which are not tolerated here...

right now i think that it will be not good to break this community, but also i believe that request for consolidations are right, and new way of project creating may be more effective - for both developers and users.

Hey hey hey, hang on. You forgot me.

I can help with the webserver, i am a moderator of a non-steam gaming community, and i can have a talk with our admin to give you a place in our forum.

I'm also more than willing to test on several machines in real-world conditions as my systems aren't exactly stable for some reason or another, and am pretty good in making packs of stuff, doing installers and the such.

My coding skills are limited but i'm learning more, and hey, i'm still in high school. I do have a pretty extensive knowledge of windoze stuff though, so for anything else but coding, you can count me in.

thats why the topic is here and why i didnt sent PMs

Latest version of Windows (08 Server) was released @ microsoft.com site and can be downloaded for free then you most purcase a licence and activate online in 128 days. So, I think is not big deal now to make a development team and integrate latest service pack in 3 bootable iso (retail, oem and upgrade) with wich we can do same thing and don't include any volume key or keygen. Or?

PS, See my thread so you can test my integration. I only fogot to upgrade some icons in all colors deep like the one for Volume Control.

Hey,
count me in to!!!
I could do the graphics design(along with Xstyle).
What would be the first proj?(Maybe too soon? )

I totally agree with this, as I'm worried about if I get some hard drive larger than 10gb, and want to install 98SE on it, but I don't have an install cd, just a system restore, and I do have a perfectly legal key and whatnot.

I hope that we can get a webserver, and succeed at upgrading components. I really appreciate you all's work. I'll try to contribute all I can, though I don't have a whole lot of knowledge.

also, what's this about censorship, I'm presently in the dark?

To realize a constructive collaboration team, source codes should be available.
It tastes like the "Open Sourcing Windows 9x" idea, but many projects aren't open here, so i doubt you can reach the goal.

BTW you have my support.

ok, i think it is time to clear some things.

projects here have reached many goals separately, which i have sucessfully integrated into my home PC. As you know some people have done jobs which were previously impossible and practically my system has broken many system limitations.

As i said before it can go on like this, but also it cant go on... For example Xeno86 has little time for it althought he is doing great job i am sure that he will need help. Also other guys are releasing patches and new codes and in some cases they are doing the same job, while some new projects will be soon necessary to keep win9x updated...

collaboration will help to speed up development, finish some things and give an ideas for new ways.

all projects have stabilized win in its behaviour. i really dont experience system crashes. that is something unthinkable for many people which have migrated to XP. But you guys DID IT.

for now it is too soon saying that the win9x projects will try to create whole new OS based on freedos and fully Win32 compatible, or if there will be place to create single upgrade pack for all Win9x users, which will give XP apps, skinning, supreme stability and performance.

i think that closest project to this idea is Revolutions Pack or my separate installations in "Immolator" project. RP pack uses files which are not included with my os and Immolator needs hours of separate installations to reach the goal.

the primary idea for me personally is to create new pack, which will combine all possible upgrades in way when all people involved will do the part where are they best. (For example tihiy is skilled coder, and some people are wanting 32bit icons, but he also made graphics while there are other people skilled enough to create good icons and skinning)

the opensourced win9x is also very good idea (i have read topic), but it will more time and also more people which will be skilled enough to reach it.

While i was reading and reading severall posts i understood that if we want to make something we must concentrate on only one project...and i must say that RP7(waiting for RP8) it's the best. So...the core must be RP7.... Honest...i don't think this team will work on one project together....Tihiy it's in his element doing what he does best, alone, like other boys and girls that know coding and severall stuff!
Well....hope for the best to come!!
~~Noroc!~~

More heads know more

i dont want force anybody to participate on existing project, i would prefer if there should be new one. For example - some people did good work with some upgrades in libraries, other guys created new graphics, but based on older libraries, or not so good libraries...

also when it comes to use these two upgrades together you may experience compatibility trouble, or graphic/localization loss. this is mainly why i didnt used RP7 and other similar projects because they didnt work on localized versions correctly.

the better way is to create single package, test all its files separately, change their graphics, add upgrades and later localize them all.

Yes....it sounds good! It will be great to create a new project from scratch! More we are the better!!! Well...we must make the first step now.... the project plan must be made! Let's take it step by step!

I think, such a project will require a proper database. It will be a good idea to keep track of some information about projects in one place.

The database could contain
- is the language independant? or what languages are supported
- does it depend on some other updates necesary to be installed first
- the list of files/components and their version numbers
- the location/URL one can download it from
- information about how to contact people mintaining the project
- some properties about general purposes (update, enchancement, critical,...)

A database can be used to create an installer able to download files from multiple sources, or to combine all necesary elements in just one single package. Also it will help to join forces while working on the same subject or issue.

Midload? No. Mediafire? Yes.

A database would be a really good idea, so the installer only downloads the files it needs for that specific system, but we'd need a database operator, and maintenance of the database. Personally i think it's too risky, someone might forget updating the database when releasing something new, and possibly messing up peoples' computers.

Yes, we will need localization, but first let's focus on getting everything done in English. Then translating the stuff won't be so hard.

Btw Offler, you got a PM two days ago. Did you read it?

Count me in. I'm not a coder but I can test the individual files and/or full project(s).
Rick

ok - lets say about one idea which i have...

KEX allowed me to trick install Visual C++ 2008 in Win98se and dependency walker showed that the libraries are working good, but i cannot create installer and i cannot redistribute the files. legal way how to install Visual c++ 2008 is quite strange - unpack with WinRar, again unpack with winrar and execute one file (i have forget which one). later you need to copy resulted dlls from c:\ into "system directory"

for this purpose we need some sort of "Upper level" installer which can perform installations for products which have been "locked" for win9x users.

Legal/Eula:
it is not reverse engeneering, just we have used special purpose installer to install the package correctly, without modifying code of package. Good and legal solution.

there are two major points of interest:
- system upgrades such as KEX, tihiys Uberkern
- special installers which can be added to package and will unlock the installation process or prevent bugs which may occur

For Example:
- game Prey did not have any trouble during installation.
- game Neverwinter nights was unable to complete instalaltion process and failure resulted in empty game directory

since all applications i used were able to communicate with Win98Se drivers and upgraded dlls, but there are still some trouble with installers.

the question is if there could be created some kind of installer shell which may catch installer needs and translate them for Win9x - for example when files are being extracted to system32 directory or when rundll is expected to be in system32 directory...

the better way of doing that is of course create fully compatible system, but in some cases it will be harder...

to unique:
i am stil reading it

This sounds promising, so far. I think that, whatever the form, the full updates install package that we make should include the option of skipping any updates we don't want (similar to, but possibly more detailed than, autopatcher) and the option of going back and adding updates that we hadn't previously. also an uninstaller would be nice, incase there are glitches that we want to get rid of.

It's better if a domain will be provided for this project and not a shared forum. Plus we may need permission for Microsoft if we will share the source code with all coders in internal development forum. I can undestend that Win98 is not supported anymore but everytime we recompile the files with VC9 and new res files we add new features that come from a supported OS.

Do you think M$ cares about what we do here? This forum could've been shut down a long time ago if it was so. The code that we are adding isn't all our property, indeed, but we do play an important part in the process of implementing those features.

We are not making profit out of the code we adapt to 9x from XP. We are simply providing a more enjoyable computing experience to people who are stuck with these versions of windoze for some reason or another. So i don't see where the permission would be needed. Besides, if we ask for permission and M$ does not allow us, then will we stop? From my point of view it's best to just keep up with what we are doing without attracting too much unwanted attention. Ie no letters to M$.

Nobody can forbid us to install our own code to win9x. in that case it will be illegal to install any third party applications on their system and that is nonsense

that means that we can use code which is opensource or our own to improve functionality of the win9x. and when we are talking about our code or opensource ... there is a lot of ways how to create a single program, or subsystem file. maybe there should be time to create completely new system core files fully compatible with old ones...

but i didnt want to discuss about legality of our work here. i am just asking if people here are willing to work together... rest shall be solved then...

also i dont belive that our work will threathen MS in any way now. since 96 percent of all computers is using Windows, and win9x users are so few as linux home users...

Too late for that , but we try to do our best to keep the 98 section up...

Hmmm, if only you knew. With upcoming complete installs like Ubuntu and Debian, and projects to play even the DirectX based games on them, more people have gone from Windows to Linux while 98 users will be less, not more. Please do not compare 98 with Linux .

it it hard to compare windows with linux. for now. but lets compare dos and freedos and see whats right now happening with win9x

linux has been here for years, but i can hardly tell if it has attracted users, mainly gamers, even when there is wine... people are just lazy when it comes to build up their own home pc - not only hardware, but just every sw detail...

Maybe, but I still think that we need a domain with a forum and a download manager both with internal (team only) and public sections. Then we can open a topic for every win98 file in the internal section and start the review.

We are not importing any code from any of M$ windows edition,so I don't think that any permission is required from Microsoft.We can also use some of the code from Reactos by just using there copyright and trademark logo.

You (and not only you, so it's my fault) misunderstood the project attitude.

The "Open Sourcing Windows 9x" idea just wanted to collect indipendent softwares then put all unofficial patchers (and not only) together around an open development project.

BTW, that's the past. I also received critiques around the idea of "substitution" instead of improving.

Now i, as many other should do if we wanna be a team, can change my mind about it.

Last but not least, as already suggested my other 3ad, i suggest to adopt a cool name for the project. (i suggested to adopt the GNUWin, an adbandoned free software compilation for Windows project that is "currently without a leading team.")

I can take care of that.




GNUWin. Alright, that sounds better than implementing the ROS shell.

Substitution VS Improving

these processes have their advantages and disadvatages - in way of programming and also in way of law. i personally prefer improving because it can be applied as a free "Unofficial 3rd party support" of software - in this case operating system. in this case we can support people which have original win9x and we can redistribute some files which were included with these systems.

gnuwin seems to be an interesting project, and partially i have developed similar collection in "Immolator" project, but i dont want to focus on apps as a final solution.

Linux greatest advantage is evolution. few years ago a thought that it will be impossible to run there win32 apps, with DX or other MS apis. today are many games supported and also the hardware support by developers is improving.

Win9x is facing fact that only few diehard users are searching a practical application for this system, but mostly they forget the fact that evolution of the system must go on. Yesterday i was stunned when i read that many opensource projects which also provide win32 versions have stopped win9x compatibility, just because they dont know about projects here.

example:
i discovered that latest Haali Renderer is technically best video displaying interface i ever met. it doesnt use CPU, but it works with GPU and image quality is really supreme. But i was disappointed when in version from november 2007 the creator of Haali media splitter stopped his win9x support.

so there are several goals:
- update windows dlls to be more compatible with newer apps
- persuarde some opensource leaders to create win9x releases
- or pick put the source code and create these releases and add them to win9x update package
- get better hardware support (drivers) for new devices - has been partially reached with Nvidia cards, but the fight for compatibility is only in beggining.

Win98SE is now not same system i have installed three years ago, and i would like to see that the improvement will go on further.

The reactos source code is freely available.
And can you tell me under which license has reactos been released

It's GPL if i'm not mistaken.

Seems to me that the first thing we need is a place to come together and share ideas, data and the actual files and code, a place that's entirely under our control. The details can be dealt with afterwards. Basically, we all want the same thing, to keep using 9X and to keep making it better. If the problem is paying for or setting up a server or paying for the internet service, lets figure out what and how much we need and get it done.

Has anyone contacted LLXX to see if she'd be interested in joining this project?
Rick

I told you, i can take care of the server. Just let me know and i'll give you all the info you need. I've heard a lot of stuff about LLXX too, i agree that someone should contact her as well.

LLXX migrate to LINUX....

I'm coding for phpBB2 and 3, and for a CMS that work with both, so if I can be any help just ask.

****, we're running IPB over there (like it is here too). I personally don't really like phpBB either. But anyway, nothing's decided yet, and were we talking about a "dev team"? Where are all the important members' opinions?

So what exactly do you want running on that server? So i can tell you if it's doable or not.

I guess that the important memebers wait for the server to be accomplished....i think?! Little by little i think this development can be done!!

I PM'ed our board's admin about the server. Let's see what he can do for us.

Edit: I got our domain. HTTP: http://win9xdev.digitalpowered.info

FTP: ftp://www.digitalpowered.info/
FTP Username: <protected> (PM for details)
FTP Password: <protected>

PhpMyAdmin: https://p3smysqladmin01.secureserver.net/p41/13
SQL Database: <protected>
SQL Username: <protected>
SQL Password: <protected>
SQL Host: p41mysql13.secureserver.net (not localhost!)


The features:

Bandwidth: 50,000 MB
Diskspace: 1,000 MB
MySQL: 1 Database

Operating System: Linux
Server IP Address: 68.178.254.122

People who wish to manage the server and start installing stuff on it please PM me and i'll give you the login details.

I think that we should write in C programming language but we should use mingw for this.
And can we put freedos as a replace for traditional microsoft dos?
And isn't there a free replacement of windows kernel

Plus a small request I am having a slow dialup internet connection can you tell me of any cheap ISP with online purchase system.
My modem is USB Robotics 56k win voice int.

Aw c'mon people... I got you a domain, now WHERE IS EVERYBODY???

Youv'd understimated the problem...

BTW i soon add my finds (hoping that helps and noone will delete them).

I don't get what you are saying... Anyway, if the domain is of no use, i can just cancel it. Anyway it seems we're the only ones (we = the people posted in this thread) that give a **** about this project. So what was the point of this anyway?

Well ....i think a plan is needed....some guidance... To begin with something simple to catch as many people as we can and then develop the hard stuff....

As already said, i would share my project (GNUWin, aka Open Sourcing 9x) - i mean i can modify the project goal - if it remains in in the open source platform.

Check out my 3ad @ WPC board (note that you need to be regd/logd) to evaluate...

the reason why i created this topic is to find ask all the people here if they want to participate. i guess that for domain or server was too early for now.

so if anybody wants to participate on future development for windows 9x in i a kind of team lets say it

i want to participate so much as i can so COUNT ME IN

I got that... But still no word from the "officials" (Tihiy, MDGx, Xeno86), and this thread has been around for a while.

Forget it, it's nearly impossible that already launched projects devs adbandon theyr babies just for a "hey guyz why don't we join forces ?" idea. FORGET IT.

You'll *probably* could involve them if you have a structured and launched standalone project...

Again: actually i don't know any other OPEN project (except ROS, of course) that could forge an alternative 9x developers team, so i'm inviting you to join (or, better, to get involved) in GNUWin.

Last but not least, i can also recycle my slogan (originally thinked for ROS):

GNUWin, open your windows to freedom.

Then this whole thread is f'ing pointless. I'm going back to eXPerience's 2k/XP/ sometimes even vista releases and running 98 in a virtual machine when i need it. That guy rocks, period.

i had a little talk from tihiy. he might join if the team should work. so i have to talk about its goals and methods:

1. Single upgrade package which will include all know official and unofficial win9x upgrades.
2. Structured installer
3. structured betatesting
4. knowledge base
5. localizations
6. Themes
7. also if possible to be legal.

for now i have combined several upgrades. Exuberants service pack, IE6, NET2.0, DX9.0c, vcredist 2008, uberskin and KEX into one machine. not bad solution but it took whole day.

only trouble is that not all content is localized. GNUwin is nice project, but apps are bit far from OS upgrades... good point for begginning which may help us to find good way in sw.