--------------------------------------------------------
ANNOUNCEMENT:

Project Anolis is up in CodePlex. Check it out at http://www.codeplex.com/anolis .

W3bbo is busy working on things now, but I'm sure that he will be able to work out the code more in the coming weeks.

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EDIT- XPero has stickied this discussion, so I guess I should make some major edits ...


So, XPero has given us (as in those interested from MSFN and elsewhere) permission to continue his XPize and Vize works. As far as I know, I don't think people have actually begun edits and stuff, but there is interest in it, and I guess that's all we need (and a little organization).




There are many people who are showing interest in helping this project come to light. Some, like me, W3bbo, doomangel, ricktendo64, Innocent Devil, and others wish to contribute.

Now we need an organized structure (how will this work: nominations? voting? requests?):

Host: XPero (though he has resigned from the main project, he is willing to host our continuation on his sites)

Project Heads: It's more like coordinators now: Happy-Dude // W3bbo // XPero

Developers/ Coders/ Programmers: W3bbo (more XPize based) // doomangel (I believe, more Vize based)

Designers/ Artists/ Contributors to make new high quality icons and resources: ?? We are now trying to get designers that make third party XPize packs to help out with our new **EXTENSIBLE** architecture; note: subject to change

Contributors that will help find "old icons" (low quality icons and icons that don't fit with the main OS themes) that Microsoft forgot about: ?? (Yeah, you get the drift.)

I'm guessing this project is transparent, so for those who want to help, but don't want to have a lot of responsibility, can just help find old icons from time to time. But I must ask those people to have installed XPize/ Vize in order to not report visuals that are already changed.

Any other positions that should be made? What do you guys think? Does anyone wish to be the serious organizer (I can do it if people don't mind, but things might change as school comes near; junior year is going to be hard ...)


THINGS THAT NEED TO BE ATTENDED TO: ellipses mean that there was more to the post


Now, for the other stuff, which I don't believe we've planned out just yet (also, should we have a separate section for Vize?):

MISSION/ GOALS:

FEATURE REQUESTS:

All are subject to change

-- New extensible architecture
-- XPize with SP3 support and x64
-- Combining of contents from previous installers, not the redundancies, but subject to change since we need the old source

BUGS:

XPize
-Some eratic problems with SP3 compatibility (W3bbo is even considering to add XPx64 compatibility smile.gif )
-Shell32.dll Reloader bug (dunno if we can fix)
-Compatibility with PowerDVD
-Visual Studio 2003 .NET compatibility
-compatibility with some explorer.exe resources
-compatibility with Asian languages pack and memory allocation
-supporting the older code branch (4.7b and before) and .NET (.1a) or manipulating them together
-uninstall fails to completely restore original visual settings (like icon sizes)
-compatibility issue with Stardock ---> DO NOT install XPize if stardock is installed

Vize
**Plenty of problems reported by Long Zheng's UI Taskforce (http://www.istartedsomething.com/taskforce/), many of which Vize attends to. However, they are definitely more that needs to get by. Anyone know which ones? (I don't run Vista, so I don't know a lot here sleep.gif ).
-%ProgramFiles% or spaces in path bug (this is fixed in doomangel's KDE patcher, which is a project based on the Vize code)

FIXES:

THINGS BEING WORKED ON/ IMPROVED SINCE FIRST REPORTs:














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Below is my original post about the project continuation:
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I'm just curious if anyone is interested in continuing XPero's XPize and Vize projects, perhaps under the same name (so the MSFN admins don't have to create different boards for each individually inspired projects).

His source codes have been released for both projects here: http://cid-a4b0f9235271a2fa.skydrive.live....wse.aspx/Source

I am definitely going to look at the source codes out of curiousity. Unfortunately, I know very little about programming, let alone software programming ... But I am willing to learn the trade !!( I'm currently reading up on C and will be taking Java classes after the summer. I am also reading up on some hacking techniques [wishing to learn what makes programs tick and how to make 'em better]. Will that help in any way?)

So, how about it? Anyone interested? Pleasee ? To me, a team is better than having everything put onto the shoulders of one developer, and perhaps can push the potential of the project even further. So, what 'cha guys thinking ?

Hello Dude

I'm also sad of XPero's decision but - read below...

First the sourcecode of XPize/ Vize is based on C#
Older (?) XPize derived projects were based on earlier branch of completly different coding language.

Now we need people they are (good) able of CSharp if we want to use the actual sources!

These decisions do we need to make:

- Want we support the older code branch (See sourcecode of the older XPize/ the XIS)?
- Should it be a team of several people working with the sources we now have?


CRYING around the msfn board: No one here who can go further with XPize/ Vize?
I am NOT a developer using their coding language...

As i consider to create patchers with other language i COULD do the fancy but...

Bye,
Chris

Hello.

The truth is that I do not know nothing of C But would be able to collaborate if himself nonstop with NSIS's old code to as which dominate to perfection.

Good guy, Let's hope that the XPero in relation to q says to Let's continue project.

Oh yes of course, let's continue the project I can host and publish them on the official websites.

I've working in a project based on vize code for a month now and what i have done is some minor changes or additions to the codebase. i don't think the code needs improvement, if we could create a team our main goal should be to discover all the non vista or non xp icons and replace the resources.

Now that! I can help with

Am I what you're looking for?

I've been using XPize since (well... just after) the beginning and I've been following it ever since. I am disappointed in XPero's departure, but that doesn't mean the project can't live on.

I know 3 of the 4 main 'C's: C, C++, and C# (but not ObjC... but that's irrelevant ) and I'm familar with the Win32 API.

As for project home, I haven't had much of a good experience with Sourceforge lately (and connecting to their CVS can be a b***h at times). Might I recommend CodePlex or Google Code instead?

I'd also love to code in support for XP x64 and first-class support for XP SP3. Whilst my Photoshop and Illustrator skills are "above average" I'm nowhere near the ability required to create new artwork though.

I don't think the project needs a "team" of developers; just one or two would do just fine (too many chefs spoil the soup, so to speak) as it is just a utility program. Personally, I'd like to see the project written in C/C++ since it reduces dependencies on .NET, but I'm easy either way and I think the pragmatic choice is continuing with the current code base (so long as it is a spaghetti pile of anonymous methods, delegates, and fails FxCop spectacularly)

EDIT: And if there's any questioning of my credentials, I'm the guy who leaked Royale Noir to Long Zheng

I would like but very little programming. Only C, Java and Python. More or less

Better to split the tasks to accomplish
1. finding Classic Resources in XP/Vista
2.Making hi-Q resources to replace them
3.build the nacessary tools to replace it

I personally prefer the new .NET code of XPize/Vize (though I dunno C#, any way)
it is simple for the *User* to do th *THING*

we need to brush up the code to make it a more general patcher .
with the resources and correspondin scripts it can XPize/Vize any supported win version

AFAIK the Vize is almost stable, XPize it little problematic though (.NET versions)

sombody knows C# should take care of the coding department
same follws for photoshop/GIMP to make resources
finding classic resources is not a problem with board like MSFN with huge userbase
---
thanx

just ask yourselves what more you'd wanted xpize/vize todo and we'll build a wishlist, we'll see what is possible and what is not and i think that we always could ask xpero for a little help.

I hate to act unilaterally or anything.... but if everyone's cool, shall I go ahead and create the CodePlex project this weekend, dump everything there, and take it from there?

EDIT: Oh Xpero, I've re-added you to my contact list (using the messenger address I used to talk to you with back in 2005, is it still valid?), are you on it much?

i hope you guys dont underestimate the work involved with this stuff...

as a maker of a shellpack, and someone that has used the xpize source for about a year and a half or so
i can guarenty you it will take over your free time

just that you know.

Damian666

I looked a bit at the source code, but as I see it still uses Reshack to do resource modifications. It will not be hard to alter these scripts. I also use Reshack scripts to build Nero Lite.
I don't use XPize personally at the moment, but I keep the source code for now. Some parts might be useful.

oh, its not the reshack script...
its all of it together

but this project deserves it so

Damian666

@ W3bbp

Check your PM inbox

This is great, guys !!

Alright, so first things are to organize this "team" into groups (I think it should be volunteers):

--Programmers/ Coders/ Source Code editors for the program itself
As pointed out before, we should have a few, maybe like 2-3 (or more if they desire), so the project can be organized and smooth going, while also not putting so much pressure into a single developer

--Designers/ Artists for high-quality new icons to replace the old icons
I think we need to find some dedicated artists for this, maybe some at deviantart. Also, is there desire for different "styles" other than the ones XPero designed? If so, we should have some artists continue XPero's designs and perhaps others to start something new?

--Volunteers to find old and stubby icons Microsoft forgot about
I think this category will (and perhaps should?) have the most people involved in. We probably should organize the group with a forum post with information on what's corrected, what's discovered, and what is being worked on. A sort of scavenger hunt management thing !!

-------------------
Is that all? Is there any need for any other organization stuff? I believe I fit best with the Volunteers group. I am very amuterish with programming, and I think i know my ways around the OS well enough .


As for the hunt for old-style icons, Vize could have perhaps used Long Zheng's UI Taskforce for Windows Vista. Unfortunately, the entire blog is down, along with the taskforce pages. Here's a cached page: http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=73626...a&FORM=CVRE OR http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:tnPZH...;cd=2&gl=us


I do not believe there's something of that sort for Windows XP, so we should get XPize organized. Hopefully, the UI Taskforce will be up eventually and Vize could use that as a Vista starting point.

So, how will this work !!

-------------------
For XPize, I believe it's most important to patch the program up to work flawlessly with Windows XP SP3 and to fix up the UXTheme hack. Maybe some stability improvements, too?

Other than that, the program should be going fine, right?

Sorry guys, I don't use Vista (as of now), so I don't know what's up with it. Should we merge the two boards together so we can organize this better? (This discussion is only on the XPize forum, and I'm not sure if Vize users or anyone interested is even viewing it ... ??)

Also, for both programs, we should get a NEEDS & WANTS list. Needs should be what needs to be attended to and fixed. Wants are what the users wish for (perhaps features?).



-----
Should we continue to communicate on the MSFN forums (best choice), or have conversations via IM/PM? I think the forums is best so we can gather and organize information in our own time.

---
to W3bbo: Wow, you discovered the Royale Noir theme for istartedsomething ??!! Nicely done !! I just love that theme, and best of all, no hacking necessary .

Also, do you happen to know what's wrong with IStartedSomething blog? I really wish to read Long Zheng's writing again ...

I haven't experienced any stability problems with XPize, except when the occasional Windows Update patch resets the occasional resource file.



Well I'd like to combine everything XPize-related into a single project and installer. Right now I install 3.2 first then the 4.7 Beta so I get all the themes and stuff between them.

The new installer should have everything in it and let users choose between variations on XPize (e.g. the MCE-styled blue one we've come to love or the black one, etc...), with previews, of course.



In the spirit of transparency and openness, stick to forums.



People give me too much credit. I was just the right guy with the right contacts in the right place at the right time.



Long's been busy on student-related activities, as well as being preoccupied with winning the Imagine Cup competition. Whilst he was busy with this his blog's server (provided for free by a friend of his) went down. He hasn't been on Messenger lately, but he knows the server is down. I reckon he's just waiting for it to be rebuilt; give it a few more days.

Great, so this is turning out nicely !!

(To the programmers: I believe that XPero only provided us with the .NET source code, is that right? [Sorry, couldn't check it out myself, eventually, just give me some time.] So, to XPero, can you perhaps provide us with the source codes for all your *last* major versions, like 1.x/2.x/3.x/4.7beta along with your .NET alpha? There are those, W3bbp, that wish to have some of the themes and features included in the earlier versions. Thanks very much.)


Now, we will need to organize this well:

Any volunteer programmers/coders that are willing to dedicate some (perhaps lengthy) hours into working of the source code and new features for the program?
Anyone know some good designers willing to carry out some of the work?
Are there any good contacts that could be made so there can be some extra hands?

What should the guidelines for the project be, be it features, requests, bugs, etc. ?

Alright, so I guess we're communicating through the MSFN forums. I guess we just need to confirm some things with the "heads" of this project, and have a clear direction and mission objective. Any volunteers? Any requests for heads? Any method of selection? As long as this project is confirmed as **continued** and **coming along**, with clear objectives, guidelines, and such, perhaps we should get a sticky going. Just a question, do you prefer to have two separate boards for XPize and Vize? To me, it seems that it would make for sense for the boards to be merged so that there can be a central forum and place for announcements, questions, requests and such. (XPero, once this project is on its way, can you, perhaps, if it isn't too much to ask, sticky some posts and stuff? Thanks a lot.)

ALRIGHT !! Let's get this thing going. Who's in, who wants to be one of the "heads," and how shall we begin? Post back, everyone !!


---------------------------------------------------------------
Off Topic:
Ah, W3bbo, found a "continuation" of Long Zheng's blog. Instead of generally stuff, he is more focused of the Imagine Cup development. http://longstudio3.wordpress.com/ ;; Kudos to him and his team !!

so this is going seriously, ah? icon resources there is no need to be created. just extracted from the right locations. xpero used the existing vista icons to replace the remaining xp icons. i, for myself, haven't used the new xpize.net. i'm talking just for vize.

I believe than the projects they must take a degree
XPize
XPize.net
For my right now part in agreement with XPero that I will go for modifying XPize code in order that he be compatible with NSIS 2.38

And the improvements that I propose for the moment and I can do for this code 4.6 is:

- Compatibility
- Multilanguaje Support
- InstallerSystemFiles*.nsi and UninstallerSystemFiles*.nsi in one file (In a Macro)
- XPize 4.*.* - Source Full and Lite in an alone code.
- NSIS MUI2
- various improvements


____________________________________________________________________________________________________

And I am for Vize, XPize.net voluntary making installers And the ones that he have.

Remember, there are three distributions of the XPize source:

There are two links off the main XPize website and another, seperate, download from XPero's skydrive account.

XIS.zip, XPize46SCR, and XPize_SRC.zip

Each has different contents.

Ah, sorry W3bbo.

Didn't see his source codes on his website. I should get to looking at them now .

So, how to organize this? Who's active, who's not, who's willing, who's going to volunteer? Let's really get this thing going !!

A lot of the content in each archive is duplicated. I'll sort through it later today to remove the cruft and form a single project. I'll then consult XPero on the general architecture (he's on my messenger list), before uploading it all to CodePlex. We can then collaborate with a TFS client (there's one for VS Express, so don't worry if you don't have the full thing).

That cool with everyone?

XIS is the NSIS XPize Installer System: It is a basic version of XPize so people can create derived works form it easily.

XPize46SCR: It is the NSIS XPize 4.6 source code.

XPize_SRC: Is the uncomplete XPize.net source code

Alright guys. This project is getting serious, as XPero himself recognized it.

Now, I made a major edit to my first post. I still believe we need more organization, though. Can I get some people to share contact information? I am available through the major messenger services (AIM/ ICQ/ Y!M/ GTalk/ WLM).

I can add you guys and stuff like that. Just make sure to e-mail me at mannyiceage@yahoo.com (my public e-mail) & pocketgamer5000@yahoo.com (my private e-mail for serious business).

What else must we do, guys? Remember to post back !!


EDIT-
Reason I didn't edit the post on features and stuff is because we still have to get organized about it. Sure, I have some requests too ... But first we need to stick out guidelines and goals for this project. Anyone wanna help formulate this? Remember to post back/ contact those who wish to be involved ...

I would love to help, but unfortunately have no experience in C or C# but am willing to help during the testing phase.

Also, I personally think it would be a good idea to try to get either peyronnx or zedox on the project because they have already worked on their own versions and their experience would be of great benefit.

I've emailed you; when d'reckon you'll reply?

W3bbo, I've replied to your e-mail.

Now, I take it that your definitely going to be in this thing, right? What position, if any, would you like to take part in?

Anyone else that's interested, please post a message saying something like "I'm in" and tell me what you would like to be part of. If it is something serious like the heads, coding, or designing may you please post some of your qualifications? Only then I feel that I could add you freely to the project (formally, that is).

Come on guys, remember post your stuff !!

---------------------------
To W3bbo: How should this be organize? What can we do? What should be the guidelines for the things?

I can design icons, translated into Spanish (if needed, I think it should be distributed in other languages), or find a host. I pointed out ...

The Gameplan

As me and HappyDude are in different time-zones it's been a bit of a problem getting communications sorted. But this is the general plan we've agreed upon:

So far it's been just me and HappyDude having serious discussions about it; other people are welcome to participate, but for the first few days it'll be just me, XPero, and HappyDude sorting through the various project sources, extracting the source code we need, and forming a repository of all the actual content in the XPize and Vize projects (for now, XPize will be the priority, Vize will come later).

• Once we have sorted out the source code from the assets (the resources and stuff) we'll post it all to CodePlex
• Development will then begin in earnest and other people are encouraged to take part. This will require a TFS client, which are available for free download from CodePlex
• After we feel the project has reached a certain level of maturity we will release it as "XPize 5" and XPero has agreed to post it to the website as an official release
• Work will then commence on getting Vize up to code

We will evaluate different features and the rest after the initial "extraction" phase.

Because getting people to do collaborative work on the Internet can be a pain at times, I will assume most of the burden of the work unless other people explicitly take up a role and activly participate. The last thing we want is Internet drama to hover over this project like a cloud of doom.

This should cover us for a month or so when we hope to reach the release stage. I anticipate short turnaround times since most of the work has already been done by XPero.

Wouldn't it be possible to have Vize detect if Restorator or some other resource editor is installed and then use those for x64 resource editing?

OH and why not separate the program from the resources, have like difrent IconPacks to choose from

As greed with W3bbo, my roles will be the following (Taking into account my available time):

- Host and publish the new versions in the official XPize / Vize pages. I still have hundreds of visits everyday, so it would be a bad idea to start over with a different site.
- Kind of "advicer" of the project to help make decisions, solve doubts about the codebase and to try that XPize doesnt become a different thing.

Long Zheng IM'd me earlier today, he said he's interested in doing a quick interview about the new XPize project. I told him to email me the questions so we can all answer them rather than me speaking for the group.

I'm waiting for HappyDude to be on messenger some time so we can talk this through.

...and conversation logs are available on request.

i'm in, i can contribute in many ways. i will release a version for my project sometime soon and after that i'm ready for vize/xpize.
a matter that needs attention is the status of the release license. should it released under the gnu(any version)?

Me, W3bbo, and XPero are working on the licensing right now. Dunno which one it is, but it is mostly up to XPero to decide (since he's the original author and he's hosting it). Also, we are getting along with working on CodePlex (yesterday they had server problems, so we were delayed a little).

It's hard to communicate with W3bbo since we are in different time zones, and I have work for 4 days in the week. I am free for the majority of Friday, and all of Saturday, Sunday, & Monday.

Alright guys, just a little update. Stay tuned !! We're adding more contributors once everything is sorted out first. We need to get ourselves stable and organized. (It's coming along just fine .)

all right, here's the first question. is it possible to use relative paths instead of absolute in vize? also there must be something wrong with the spacing in vize, just like ricktendo64 has mentiond about sidebar.exe it looks that the same problem exist with c:\program files\internet explerer\iexplore.exe for example.
Any ideas?

if you use Codeplex, could you please use Svnbridge + TortoiseSVN and not the TeamExplorer. The .vssscc files are terrible

that would be nice and it is an easy thing to be done. Like you did with your extra resources only the filelist.xml and the \resources folder are needed. Someone could create a nsis installer and just install those files inside the vize/xpize's folder.
I'm curious to see what happens with XPero, Happy-Dude and W3bbo and how it will be organized.

Yeah, that's definitely a good idea. I had plans for that in the past. Kind of downloadable themes or packs. We could have Vista pack, XP pack, Tango pack, etc...

BUT, the problem is that XPize is not that, so I think that should be another project. For now, it would be great to get the new XPize working, with its original features. Then, we can think of extra features IMO.

Cheers

Vista pack??? do i see a little copyright enfringement there???

XPero, never thought that of you

damian666

Well, I noticed that Long Zheng's IStartedSomething Blog is back up !!

Now, we can use his UI Taskforce pages to guide us through Vista and Vize changes !!

UPDATE:

W3bbo just informed me about his new extensible architecture (July 27). Basically, the idea is something that let's the user to choose which themes he/ she wants, and XPize will replace the resources with that package. Later on, if the person wants to switch, he/ she can launch XPize and choose another theme.

That means there is a possibility of XPize Darkside and Vista pack to be in one package !! (But first, we need to contact the developers about this and how they feel and such.) Course, there will be a *Lite* function, giving the user mostly Visual Consistency over the extras.

The new XPize website should be up soon. Look for it !!

Also, please take note that we are working on the XPize code first. Afterwards, XPize should mature and Vize will come, and should be just as good (since experiences and problems from XPize should also exist for Vize; they are developed with similar codes, and the bugs should be corrected in both).

Look for a preliminary release the coming months.

So, what's up guys ?

at first i was joking, but now i really want to let you guys know that the name vista pack, is taken...

i dont mind getting a bit competition, but let not use that name ok?

i was first with that name, so its sort of copyrighted by me

Damian666

No, no, Damian666, I think you misinterpreted me. What I meant was that there is the possibility of contacting the respective developers/ authors of their packs and having their permission to incorporate it into the new XPize installer. That way, we can give users the choice to switch themes on demand.

So, with the authors permission, we can incorporate packages based on the XPize/ Vize code onto our new code (like XPize Darkside, for example).

If your Vista Pack is based on the XPize installer system, might I ask you (Damian666) if you're interested in incorporating it to the project? If not, I will be sure to double check the copyrights of the things we do incorporate !!

well... the vistapack is certainly been based on the XPize source in the past.
But because of the hard maintainability of the first source files, i migrated to a self made patcher system.

so no, i dont think i will include the vistapack in the new upcoming XPize project, sorry.

ofcourse it would be ideal if i could get you guys to drop the vista idea, but hee... its a free world

i just wanted to say that that name is taken.

Good luck with your projects.

Damian666

We're sticking with "Vize" since it's already got good brand recognition and comes up #1 in Google anyway.

@ Happy-Dude:

A Vista pack addon for XPize can be made easily and nobody has copyright on that. Anyway, damian666's Vista Pack source code should be available for all since it is based (at least the first versions) on XPize source. That way we could take resources for the XPize addon and give credit to him. That's the whole idea when I made XPize source code available. And derived works should follow the same idea.

i was just talking about the name man.

and ok, maybe my first versions were based on your installer, but it is not anymore, thus i made it closed source.

period.

but sticking with vize, thats ok with me

Damian666

@XPero, there is nobody that can force me too share my resources man.
now if you asked nice, i would consider it, but trying to decide what you can do with my stuff?

not nice man, i thought better of you man.

damian666

wow, are you planing on selling your software? cause this is the world of free/open/non profit software and if you wanna play this way then copyright your name and your code, if you don't just build a vista pack addon for xpize and help us out.
no one was intented to "steal" your name