[b]Problems after installing Hitachi Microdrive Disk Filter.
Facts :
My PC : 2 hard disks, 4 partitions, 2 OS (XP Sp3)
I wanted to check multiboot from USB drive, so I installed Hitachi Microdrive drive filter. It was OK. USB Pendrive was seen as fixed disk.
Then I decided to revert to previous standard Microsoft disk drivers for USB device. I did it with no problem using Device Manager.

Now almost everything came back to previous state except one thing I can not boot any longer from my USB-VistaPE.
When I’m trying to boot from my USB-VistaPE following message appears:
"File: Boot\BCD
Status:0xc000000e
Info An error eccured while attempting to read the boot configuration data"

Few words about my USB-VistaPE : it is Samsung Pedrive which was formatted using simply diskpart commands (select disk 1; clean; crate partition primary ;select partition 1; active; format fs=fat32; assign) and then files from CD VistaCE were copied on it. It works excellent. I can boot from it on almost all PCs. I successfully tested it on 12 various computers. It was OK for my computer too until I installed Hitachi Microdrive.

I guess (I’am not sure) that during installation of Hitachi Microdrive drive filter some changes were made in MBR on my first hard disk. I have no enough knowledge about MBR to find which sector is responsible for it and how to change it back. Unfortunately I haven’t got copy of previous MBR and I don’t want to reinstall systems.

Help appreciated

Referring to my previous post I do hope that in this forum attended by so many experienced guys somebody give me a clue.
In the meantime I checked hundreds other post here and on others forums. I’ve find that problem of error 0xc000000e was deeply discussed ( link )but there is no answer to my question:

What changes in my computer have been made during installation of drive filter (Hitachi) and how remove these changes ?

In mentioned post there are information how modify USB stick, using Grub4Dos to avoid the problem. Author (ktp) assuming that problem concern only some BIOS. In my case I’ve used the same computer (same BIOS) and problem appeared after installing drive filter.
There is no Grub4Dos on my USB-VistaPE and as I mentioned before I have no problem to boot almost all PCs.

I doubt Hitachi microdrive did ANY changes to your MBR/bootsector etc. It only hooks on the fly the query "are you removable or fixed(basic) disk?" when USB disk is inserted, and returns always "fixed". For the technical details look here, it's the same approach:
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/system/sovie...;select=1468013



Once you have USB stick seen as fixed, partition operations are allowed. This is done by the OS/Partition program, and Hitachi driver has nothing to do with the read and write operations to the USB stick, neither would rewrite MBR/bootsector ANYWHERE. Since you removed Hitachi microdrive driver from the game, it should not play any role as well.

Some BIOS-es have hard time reading beyond certain boundary at boot time and boot loaders may have problems reading the next files- when copying files to USB stick always copy the boot files first. Those are BOOTMGR and BOOT folder for Vista, NTLDR/NTDETECT.COM/BOOT.INI for XP, GRLDR for grub4dos etc. and copy the rest afterwards.
Other idea- BOOTMGR doesn't like partitioned USB stick- try newer/older version of the same. Try the same source on the same unpartitioned USB stick to isolate the problem.
Try installing grub4dos in MBR or bootsector (guide), and chainload BOOTMGR, assuming VistaPE is in first partition:
menu.lst

If still no luck- use the solution by KTP, it's somehow universal.

BTW is this the right subforum?

Well, apart from the wrong sub-forum, there is also a wrong "object".

We are talking here about the Hitachi Microdrive Filter Driver, not about an actual Hitachi (or other brand) Microdrive:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdrive


jaclaz

Yes I agree title of post should be "Problems after installing Microdrive Filter Drive" (if possible should be changed) but if somebody read the post I think he/she has no doubt that I'm writing about drive filter not Microdrive (storage device) especially when post was put in multiboot subforum. In my second post I put clearly "filter driver"
The problem is closely connected with process of creating partitions on USB stick.

Nevertheless I confirm that problem started immediately after I installed Microdrive Filter Drive.

Would be obliged if somebody could answer question in my second post. I don't want to get instruction how improve my bootable pendrive (I dit it already)

jaclaz dont be its better ,I read hundreds of your posts, always professional, kind with sense of humor and I do hope you could comment my problem not technical mistakes only.

Sure, I will try and help you as much as I can, but we must start on a new basis:
1) A filter driver CANNOT in ANY way alter a MBR by itself
2) The MBR of internal hard disk has NO connection whatever to USB booting
3) Some action performed by the user or by some software WHILE the Filter Driver was installed may have altered something

Once you agree (or simply fake agreeing ) to the above we can start trying to work out what could it be.

First things that should be verified:
1) The MBR of the USB stick
2) The BCD store on the USB stick

To get a copy of the MBR of the stick use HDhacker:
http://dimio.altervista.org/eng/
(you want to point it to the appropriate PhysicalDrive)

Can you zip them in an archive and post it here?

jaclaz

P.S.:
To make you happy, if you also add the MBR of your internal hard disk, I will have a look at it as well.

jaclaz

Many thanks jaclaz for your kind post (as usual)
You are expert but to be frank I do not understand presented approach.

I have USB-VistaPE (discribed in my first post) which I've been using succsfully on many computers for long time. I didn't use this USB stick (Samsung Mightly) when I installed filter drive under Windows XP. I used similar but not the same USB stick testing partitions on USB stick.

I used my USB-VistaPe on my PC before I started tests with multiboot USB stick and everyting was OK. After I finished tests with drive filter I could not boot from my original USB-VistaPE any longer.
Maybe I'm wrong but the reason of the error is not my stick (all time the same) but PC (which behaviour is different after drive filter test).
Of cource I can send requested files

Well, the problem is that I do not seem to understand fully your report.
How I get it:
1) you had a stick working perfectly on many computers
2) you added the Hitachi Microdrive Filter Driver to one computer (installing it to an Operating System on that computer)
3) you never connected this USB stick to that computer while the Filter Driver was installed
4) you removed the Filter Driver from the OS on that computer
5) since you did the above the USB stick does not boot anymore on that computer

What I am missing is whether the stick continues working allright on all the other computers or not.

If the above summary is incorrect in any way, please post more details and supply the missing parts.

Now, as I see it, NOTHING in the installing or uninstalling of any software, let alone a Filter Driver, to an OS can alter the way a motherboard boots from USB, you should be able to physically disconnect altogether the HD where the OS was installed or wipe it and the USB booting should work as well.

So the possibilities I see are just three:
1) some settings have changed in the BIOS of that computer, due to unknown reasons
2) something has changed in the USB stick, due to unknown reasons
3) something else, again due to unknown reasons has happened

About the last point, it could be:
1) having added any other hardware to the computer, an internal card or an extrernal device, even a USB hub
2) using another USB port (usually those on the back, soldered to the motherboard, are more reliable then front ones
3) some hardware malfunctioning

jaclaz

Thanks for detailed comment.
Your summary is fully correct and I confirm my USB stick works perfectly on other computer.
Nothing has happened to my computer. it has worked good before I started to test microdrive drive filter and now is also OK (except mentioned error)
All happened in one evening in following order:
1. I showed my friend how my USB-VistaPE works on my computer (everything was OK)
2. I took another USB stick and wanted to create partitions so I installed drive filter.
3. I resigned from further tests with USB partitions so I reverted to Microsoft drives
4. I tried to use my USB-VistaPE on this computer but the error occured.

One more thing. The reason of my post is to try understand what happened not to remove cause of the error without knowing what going on (let say by cleaning disk). I still can use my PC and I can boot VistaPE from CD.

Sure, that is the same reason why I am trying to help you, I couldn't care less about your VistaPE stick not working , I am curious to understand the reason why it does not.

I had a quick look at the MBR'S you sent, BOTH are a bit "strange", the one of the Hard Disk has a non active primary NTFS partition starting at CHS 0/1/3 (normal should be 0/1/1) and with 65 hidden sectors, plus an active second primary partition, as well NTFS, and the Extended partition.

The MBR of the stick seems to have been formatted with a CHS geometry of n/255/63 (correct) but with the active 0B FAT32 partition starting at CHS 0/2/3 (normal should be 0/1/1) and with 128 hidden sectors.

Out of curiosity, what did you use to partition/format the hard disk and stick?
Used some "strange" bootmanager in the past?

jaclaz

My USB stick (see my first post) was formated using Diskpart ( commands: select disk x; clean; create partition primary ;select partition 1; active; format fs=fat32; assign)

My hard disks ( 2 pcs, 6 partitions) were formated using Acronis Director Suite 10. I used also Try&Decide function of Acronis True Immage 11 (part of disk is blocked)

Additional info: I've sacrificed my new laptop and repeated all steps previously done and there is no error on my laptop. I've checked differences between my desktop and laptop. In my desktop there is additional disk drive- snapman.sys (installed during instalation of Acronis Director Suite or True Image) two others drives: Microsoft disk.sys and PartMgr.sys.
Now I suppose we are close to solve the matter. Probably changes were made when I created partitons on my test-USB stick using Acronis DS. Some people reported problems with boot devices after using Acronis DS.

The experiment with the laptop confirms my initial theory of an UNKNOWN reason, coincidentally happening at the same time of the Filter Driver install.

From my experience, Acronis products (but I have tested/used only rather oldish releases, like 7 or 8), whilst actually making some undocumented/non-standard modifications to hard disk hidden sectors, never made non-standard partitions.
Having 65 (instead of 63) hidden sectors is really WEIRD.

As well, diskpart, on tens of sticks partitioned/formatted with it that I have examined, NEVER made a non-63 hidden sectors partitioning, the data on your stick suggests that diskpart either failed to sense correctly the stick, or it is some particular stick, like an "U3" or a "CDRW" one.

However, BOTH the above points, though queer do not account for the problems you reported.

Also, whatever drivers, apps and "whatnot" inside your "resident" OS have NOT ANY (or should not have any) influence on the booting of ANOTHER OS from external media, the exception being if some Registry entries (not strictly related to drivers) are read in an attempt to "discover" existing hardware.

Before starting fiddling with the Registry, other tests should be made.

At this point, the only not completely senseless explication is some kind of hardware problem.

Since VistaCE is nothing but a (rather well ) enhanced setup routine, there have been reports of problems booting it when some problems are present on the hardware, typically:
a. defective RAM
b. bad sectors on the HD

Tests that you can make with relatively low effort:
1. run Memtest+ to check thoroughly your RAM
2. try booting from the stick after having physically disconnected the internal hard disk.

Experiment 2. would anyway exclude that the Registry of the installed OS has anything to do with the reported misbehaviour.

jaclaz

Fully agree.




Please take into account that I had no problems to boot from USB-VistaCE on my computer before USB stick tests with partitioning and I have no problem to boot from CD-VistaCE right now.
I can run suggested tests but I think ( maybe I'm wrong) the problem is located in Registry entries made by Acronis. According to some information from net some Acronis drivers ( mainly) snapman.sys Registry entries can cause boot problems. It is remomended to remove some entries ( lowerfilters and upperfilters keys) I'm trying to get more information on it.

Maybe (though I cannot see why )) this is related:
http://www.pronetworks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=86031

As said, a good test would be to physically diconnect internal hard disk, but if it is a problem, you can also experiment by simply disabling it in BIOS, if booting works, it is something on the hard disk preventing it, if it still does not, it is something on the stick or in the BIOS settings.

jaclaz

As suggested:
1. I dissabled hard disks in BIOS and tried to boot from USB-VistaCE. Result - the error.
2. I run MemTest+. Result no errors.
Now I'm a little bit lost and can't find reason why before tests I could boot from USB-VistaCE on this computer.

BTW what tool you can recommend for analyzing MBR data file.

Only two possibilities are left, as I see it:
1) something changed in BIOS
2) something changed on the stick that prevents it booting ONLY on that machine.

For 1) it's just a matter to play a bit with the settings, I would start with "failsafe" settings.
For 2) I would copy the files on the stick, repartition and re-format it properly, and restore back the files.

To "see" a MBR data best apps are Beeblebrox or PTEDIT32, for "code" any Hex editor (and a lot of experience ) will do.

jaclaz

Sorry there is no failesafe option in my computer BIOS ( V. 2.51 American Megatrends)


Please explain what you mean by properly. I have formated another USB Samsung Mightly stick using as before Partdisk and commands mentioned before. Then I copied files from my "original" USB-VistaCE. Result the same I can boot from this stick other computers except my desktop. As I have not istalled Vista in my computers so I use Diskpart under VistaCE (booted from CD). If stick is formated let say by Acronis it doesn't works at all (non system disk)

1) Sometimes a seemingly "stupid" setting in the BIOS like (as an example) "Enable Leagacy USB support" - designed to support USB keyboard and mouse - can alter the way the booting is done, or "PNP OS installed", I am not familiar at all with American Trends BIOS, cannot say.

2) Please post the MBR and bootsector of the newly formatted stick, I would like to check that CHS values are allright, and check whether the disk signature has changed or not.

jaclaz

I've played changing BIOS ( USB function ,Legacy USB support, USB 2.0 Controller, USB storage Device Emulation Mode , Plug and Play O/S) but no positive result.


I've formatted by Diskpart two new sticks :Samsung Mighty 1GB and GoodDriveED 2GB and copied VistaCE. Result the same as before I can boot from both sticks many other computers except my desktop. MBR data files enclosed.

Still you have "unconventional" MBR data, with 128 hidden sectors.

Please do the following:
1) Backup whatever you have on the Samsung stick
2) Copy with HDhacker the attached Samsung3_test.dat to the MBR of the Samsung stick
3) Remove the stick
4) Re-insert the stick
5) Right click on the drive letter assigned to the stick in Explorer and choose to format it
6) Restore the backed up files

Try booting.

Repeat with Samsung4_test.dat and Samsung5_test.dat

The supplied MBR's, besides having a (hopefully) right partition data have the disk signature "zeroed" out.

The previous signature of the Samsung was "52C4F784", you can use MBRfix to experiment either restoring it as it was or changing it to a different one.

Samsung3_test.dat has Vista MBR code (untouched from Samsung2.dat)
Samsung4_test.dat has 2K/XP/2003 MBR code
Samsung5_test.dat has 2K/XP/2003 MBR code with the HP utility workaround:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/?showtopic=2246&st=15

I don't think that there can be a difference, but you never know, running out of ideas....

jaclaz

Still you have "unconventional" MBR data, with 128 hidden sectors.

Please do the following:
1) Backup whatever you have on the Samsung stick
2) Copy with HDhacker the attached Samsung3_test.dat to the MBR of the Samsung stick
3) Remove the stick
4) Re-insert the stick
5) Right click on the drive letter assigned to the stick in Explorer and choose to format it
6) Restore the backed up files

Try booting.

Repeat with Samsung4_test.dat and Samsung5_test.dat

The supplied MBR's, besides having a (hopefully) right partition data have the disk signature "zeroed" out.

The previous signature of the Samsung was "52C4F784", you can use MBRfix to experiment either restoring it as it was or changing it to a different one.

Samsung3_test.dat has Vista MBR code (untouched from Samsung2.dat)
Samsung4_test.dat has 2K/XP/2003 MBR code
Samsung5_test.dat has 2K/XP/2003 MBR code with the HP utility workaround:
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/?showtopic=2246&st=15

I don't think that there can be a difference, but you never know, running out of ideas....

jaclaz

I followed above instruction and in all cases (Samsung 3, 4, 5 test.dat) no boot at all on my desktop and other computers - DISK ERROR. I think the reason is formating in WindowsXP Explorer

I've made additional tests . Stick was formatted with Diskpart and then using HDhacker I changed MBR from dat files (Samsung 3, 4, 5 test.dat). In all cases I could boot to other computers (except my Desktop). I also used mbrfix (fixmbr command) the result was the same.

piotrania, sorry, but "no boot" means nothing to me, I need a description of what happens and what errors (if any) are displayed, like "non system disk", "cannot find NTLDR" a flashing cursor, a "j" or "k" in top left of the screen....something.

I omitted a step that I gave for implicit.

When using the format command on the stick with the MBR's I posted, you should have a VALID partition.

If you do that on XP the bootsector code will of course invoke NTLDR.

Copy a NTLDR+NTDETECT.COM+BOOT.INI (this latter with at least two entries) to the stick.

If you can see the BOOT.INI choices, the "real" (CHS/LBA/MBR/bootsector related) part of the booting process.

If you use the format command under Vista the bootsector code will be that invoking BOOTMGR.

To "switch" between the two codes you can use the bootsect.exe utility.
bootsect.exe /nt52 <DriveLetter>: will produce a NT/2K/XP/2003 compatible bootsector invoking NTLDR.
bootsect.exe /nt60 <DriveLetter>: will produce a Vista/2008 compatible bootsector invoking BOOTMGR.

Pleas try again applying the posted MBR's, formatting under XP and adding NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and BOOT.INI, this way we can make sure that it is not a problem in the "initial" "real" part of booting.

Another test that you should/could make is using fuwi's batch here:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=21702

What I still cannot get is whether the problem is something related to "general" USB booting or to the particular VistaPE/VistaCE.

jaclaz

To be frank I do not understand you. I know that it's important to you so I put down an error in capital letters "DISK ERROR" ( see above)

I see that you are proposing to go another way. As I said at the beginng I do not want to change method of booting. I want only to get explanation why I can not boot my dektop from my USB-VistaCE ( before I could). I boot another computers easily from my stick ( till now I've checked 20 computers and no failed try).

Maybe some more information on my USB-VistaCE stick. It is simply created by formating USB stick using Diskpart and copying files from CD VistaCE ( this CD was attached to Chip Magazine last year)
Structure of files is as follows:
1. Boot (folder) containing: BCD, BOOT.SDI, BOOTFIX.BIN, ETFSBOOT.COM
2. EFI (folder) >Microsoft (folder) >Boot (foder) containing BCD
3. Sources (folder) containing BOOT.WIM
4. BOOTMGR
If you need I can send you CD image.

To summarize:
It was confirmed that error "0xc000000e" was not caused by Microdrive Drive Filter or Acronis Disk Director (I disconnected hard disk drives and the error appeared)
Probably BIOS of my Desktop is causing "0xc000000e" error but why it was OK before it is mystery. I have not changed hardware or updated BIOS. I use default settings in BIOS.

Well, I was just trying to understand where the error came from.
"DISK ERROR" does not come from MBR, which has:


It does not come from the bootsector, that has either (2K/XP/2003 version):

or:


You may note how the "Disk error" message in bootsector is not ALL CAPITALS, so, either the error comes from the BIOS or it was a "Disk error" reported as "DISK ERROR".

However since you are afraid that I may take you on "another way" that you wish not to take, I guess we can live the matter as is, as said:


The point I was trying to understand was whether the unusual 128 hidden sectors had a role in this or not.

To try understanding this, I need reports of tests done as I recommend, otherways I cannot see if there is a relationship.

The report about having the stick first formatted by diskpart with the MBR replaced by the one(s) I posted does not make sense to me, as is.

If diskpart partitons the stick "correctly" writing a MBR with 63 hidden sectors, and then formats it with that geometry, replacing the MBR with the ones I posted, should work as you report, but then HOW the hidden sectors were made 128 before?

If you used diskpart to only format the stick starting with the "old" MBR with 128 hidden sectors, there is no way that replacing the MBR will result in a bootable stick.

The only other test that I would try, but that you do not want to is trying booting another operating system from that stick on that computer, in order to understand whether the problem is only Vista (or VistaCE) related or is a "general" USB booting failure.

Then I would try a new version of VistaPE, the CE edition is outdated anyway, but since you do not want to try anything else, I guess that we have come to an end of this unresolved puzzle.

The main thing (for me) is to have succeeded in convincing you of the "innocence" of the Filter Driver , the main thing (for you) should be to understand what the problem is, but to get that you may need to step out of your "main" way, as I see it, something that you seem not willing to do.

Sorry if I cannot give you an explanation for your problem.

jaclaz

First of all I’d like to thank you for your guidance. I appreciate very much your knowledge and activeness.
I’ve got some experience ( 25 years with various computers and softs) but “boot land” is fresh area for me. You motivated me to get more info about boot process (it is more complicated then I thought) in order to continue further investigations and tests. ( If I’m doing something I have to understand it). Booting Vista is different process from previous Windows so I started to learn BootMgr , BCD and so on.
Usually I’m solving all problems by myself. It is my first time when I’ve asked for help in forum and I don’t know all writing rules. For example I’ve written DISK ERROR in capital letters to emphasize it but you have got it in different way. Of course the error appeared in screen in small letters, and in my language not in English.
Comment regarding Chip VistaCE. I know newer VistaPE v.12 and previous versions. I’ve tested many images created by myself and others (Nightman) but I have to say that for me VistaCE is excellent tool (friendly interface, boot time 30-40 secs on average computer, immediate access to mass memories and internet) To improve it I’ve added some additional portable tools and applications in separate folder.

Good.

On other Windows versions, STOP 0xc000000e is a symptom of a problem in accessing the data on a device (whilst 0x0000007b is related to be unable to access the device).

When "normally" booting it is often due to a "bad" cable.

When Pxe/Ramdisk booting it can be due to the use of the /rdexportascd parameter with a RAW partition image or by using /rdexportashd with a .ISO image, or by using the wrong /rdimageoffset= value with a RAW disk image.

In other words, the SETUPLDR.BIN or NTLDR does not find a bootsector at the address it is looking for it.

The "unusual" number of hidden sectors, or the "fractional end cylynder" may cause the same on particular BIOSes, that's why I suggested to partition and format the stick with the "proper" nx255x63 geometry, with a "non-fractional" end cylinder.

Though the above is just an idea, as I have little or no experience of Vista booting, using a "proper" partitioning and formatting will make no harm and will exclude this guess from the possible cause.

Some more info on the matter you can find in my everyday more outdated pages:
http://home.graffiti.net/jaclaz:graffiti.n...B/USBstick.html
http://home.graffiti.net/jaclaz:graffiti.n...SB/USBfaqs.html

User ktp has reported here that he was able to workaround the problem using grub4dos:
http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=19439
as a bootloader, though it does not give the explanation you want, it may put you on the right track.

About VistaCE, I am sure it is a good environment, only pointing out that it is a bit outdated when compared to VistaPE v.12, but you are right:



jaclaz

I've spent week to learn Vista booting and I've made many tests with various BCD configurations but without success.
So now I've started to check other solutions of 0xc000000e problem.
I tested below solution:

It looks very interesting and ktp claimed "success" but I followed the instruction (btw it's not very precise) and results are negative. Before I'll present results of my tests in details I'd like to know if somebody except ktp can confirm the solution works and what are conditions.
The solution was presented almost a year ago and I can't find a clear statement from other people that it is OK. I sent message to ktp asking for more details but I haven't got reply.