is this a correct order of installation or is ther a better one?

1. win98se lite - chubby config
2. unofficial win98se sp2.0b2
3. directX 8.1b
4. ie 5.5 with sp2
5. ie 5.5 sp2 cumulative patch october 2003
6. office 97pro

Hardware: p233, 80mb, 1.6gb

It'll work that way. Though you should install directx 9.0c instead of 8.1b.
Also dump the IE 5.5 SP2 cumulative Oct. 2003 patch. Install the
Cumulative 871260 IE 5.5 SP2 update which is much newer than the Oct. 2003
update.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...&displaylang=en

Even though MS says it's for WinME, the IE 5.5 SP2 871260 update will
work under Win98se.

As for MS Office 97 Pro, upgrade to SR1, then install SR2b and then you can
install the latest Office 97 SR2 security patches.

tnx for quick response and great tips erpdude8.

is there any advantages with dx9 on a machine that old? isn't dx8 faster?

when you say -"It'll work that way", do you mean that the order doesn't matter or is it strictly that way?

once again ms offers ie 5.5 sp2 but this time only for me. is there any difference from the previous version of ie 5.5 sp2?

i've never run DX8 on win98 but DX9 has better support for more games

there is,i got an old laptop that works a bit better with the newest directx(9.0c)
this is the order that you should

1. Internet Explorer 6 sp1
2. Install Newest Directx(9.0c)
3. Install Latest Drivers for sound,chipset,usb(if applicable)video card
4. Install 98lite(don't remove anything yet)
5. Install The Service Pack 1.6.2
6. Use 98lite and remove features then use chubby
7. office 97pro and any &All Programs

it's better to have the newest system files before you install software to avoid problems,also by doing it that way all your system files are patched and updated and if you remove anything from windows setup it will reinstall with the newest files that are in the service pack if you choose to reinstall a particular windows component
office 97 is really old,shouldn't you install office 2000 pro?office 97 and office 95 were meant for windows 95 mostly but will work on 98 fine

if you have office 97, then u are only licenced for 97, not 2000 pro. using 2000 would be considered using pirated software.

i am unsure y u would put installing ur drivers before IE6, thats kinda stupid? the joys of 16colors on a 640x480 desktop...

below is my method:

1. Install Win98
2. Install all updated drivers
3. Install DirectX 9.0c
4. Install Internet Explorer 6 SP1 (Don't forget to delete the backup files after)
5. Install Windows Media Player 9 and WMP8 Codecs
6. Windows Update
7. Install Anti-Virus (AVG Free Edition 7.0)

* If using Gape's service pack, i install it after step 2

if you do it my way you will avoid problems like when i installed my sound drivers without newest dx it warned me about it and sound didn't sound very good after all.
you install ie6 first after you install win 98 cuzz apps n drivers may need the newer ie files.you don't need av for 98,lots of ppl don't target 98 just 2000,xp,his drivers may complain about the newest directx,install yor apps after my suggestion and it work wonders,i know i've done it and it works everytime,and windowsupdate is last(u need to apply the fix for windowsupdate after you install the sp) and install the mp9 codecs instead of the mp8 codecs
choose what way you decide but i advise to install ie 6 first then directx then drivers at least then do it any otherway you choose

I recommend that you should install SP on the last step.

Example:

1- Install Win98 SE.
2- Install drivers.
3- Install IE 6.0 SP1.
4- Install DirectX 9.0c or 8.1b.
5- Install SP.

Nice to have you back Gape. Now when you're catching up and reading old posts, ignore ppl that are frustrated over that the SP2 isn't released. Or it's taking to long time etc. Do things you have to do first in real life, don't stress and don't feel obligated to dedicate all your time and power to this project. I'm sure that SP2 will be released, and we will all wait patiently for it. Thanks allot for your hard work and shearing your knowledge.

The particular machine I'm building will not act like a gaming or multimedia platform. Nor will it use many and heavy apps. It will only be plain and simple. Why? well, i have other machines with more power for that. This one is old hardware (P233). I rather have my system responsive and limited then slow and future rich. If you ever compared Office 97 and 2000 on old hardware you know what I'm talking about... and, hand on your hart, who ever use all the new futures in newer versions of Office anyway? If I ever have the need for more than Office 97, I'll go openoffice. But then it wouldn't be a P233 executing cuz it lacking the power to run it snappy.

IE 5.5 or 6.0?
Well, my experience is that 5.5 feels faster than 6.0 on old hardware. But this were when 6.0 was new. Maybe it has changed in recent versions, but I doubt. Has anyone different and more up to date experience?

New or old driver?
When installing Win98SE on my system everything is working fine from the start. S3Trio64V+ graphic , SB16 CT2230 (16bit ISA!) sound and 3Com 3C905B network is working perfectly with the drivers bundled with Win98SE. Is there any real need to hassle with new drivers?

DX8 or DX9?
Never used DX9 on a system that old. Only have a feeling that DX8 has better support and speed for old hardware than DX9. And btw, the new futures in DX9 demand more power than a plan old P233 so way install it?

WMP 6.4 or newer?
On a P233? Defiantly 6.4. Don't even try to use the newest WMP.

MSN Messenger will also be installed on this system. Think I'll go for the newest one. When should I install it? Don't know but certainly it would upgrade some files or?

Before installing Win98SE I'll patch it with 98lite chubby option. Then when installing Win98SE, should I remove IE, DX and WMP from start, and then install then new versions (WMP6.4 comes with IE5.5) or should I just install them 'on top'?

DirectX 8 has better support and speed for for old hardware than DirectX 9?
ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE, burkgul! I installed DX 9.0c on a very old
Pentium 1 [100Mhz] PC with Win98se and it works well & didn't suffer
any performance losses. In fact, MS said in its DirectX FAQ that DX-based
games that uses older versions of DX, run better with newer versions of DX.

There are no new drivers for the S3Trio64V+ graphics card, which I used to have.
Win98se has the latest drivers for that card.

The latest WMP definitely requires a fast PC. Install WMP 6.4 from IE6 SP1
setup program which is slightly newer than the one from the MS web site.
See Mdgx's Windows Media Player free fixes page on how to install WMP 6.4
build 1121:
http://www.mdgx.com/wmp.htm

As for IE 5.5, make sure you install IE 5.5 SP2 and install the 871260 update
for IE 5.5 SP2. Newer IE 5.5 updates like the Oct. 2004 834707 update for
IE 5.5 SP2 will only install under WinME because MS supports IE 5.5 SP2 on
WinME systems only.

Whoops, almost forgot. When downloading DirectX 9.0c, get the DirectX 9.0c
Redistributable download at this Microsoft site:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...&DisplayLang=en

It's about 35 Mb in size but it has all the DX 9.0c setup files for Win98, 2000,
ME, XP & 2003 so you don't have to download the individual DX9.0c components.
Get it if you have more than one PC or if you need to re-install DX.

erp-mon:

Is this true? [I have no experience; don't use IE 5.5 anymore.]

Have you tried to install the hotfix "from the inside"? There are a bunch of 98SE fixes that "only install under ME" unless you goto the inside files and install it manually. [Don't quite remember the specific ones, but 828026 for WMP comes to mind for example.] Use power archiver or whatever to get to what's inside and find the .exe or .inf and see if that works, etc.

cjl

The 828026 WMP update has some bugs, CLASYS so obtain the 832353 update
instead which fixes the problems with the 828026 update.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/832353
In fact, dump the 828026 patch as the 832353 updates are newer than the
828026 updates.

See Mdgx's WMP updates page on how to install the 832353 WMP update
under Win98se:
http://www.mdgx.com/wmp.htm
Look for the 'Script Commands MSDXM.OCX, WMP.DLL + WMPCORE.DLL Fix'
on his page.

Yes, it's true as I've tested the IE 5.5 SP2 834707 update for myself.
If you double-click on the patch, it says 'This Update Requires Windows ME'
if you run it on a non-ME system. Later this week I'll post how to install the
IE 5.5 SP2 834707 update on non-WinME systems.

Another good reason to install DirectX 9.0c is because it fixes some recent
security problems with DirectX mentioned in MS security bulletin MS04-016:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/...n/MS04-016.mspx
MS only provided DX 8.1, 8.2, 9.0a, 9.0b security patches for Win2k/XP systems
and NOT for Win98/ME systems. The only way to fix the DirectPlay security
problems mentioned in that bulletin is to install DirectX 9.0c which includes the
fixes for Win98, 2000, ME, XP & 2003. Microsoft is only releasing new 'Critical'
security patches for Win98/ME. The DirectPlay security vulnerability in Microsoft
security bulletin MS04-016 has a severity rating of 'Moderate' for Win2k/XP/2k3
systems and 'Not Critical' for Win98/ME systems.

WMP9 is slow as on old machines. but i reccommend u install WMP9, and then enable 6.4 as the default player. Especially if you are watching a few streaming vids in internet explorer. A lot of sites complain about a WMP9 not being installed even if you have the VCM9 Codec installed. (I use this method on my 133mhz laptop, and 150mhz and 233mhz desktops)

I remember using IE6 Beta and the first official release of it on Windows ME and 98SE. It was an unbelievable nightmare. I believe IE6 SP1 runs a lot better and more reliant since then. As for the speed difference in load times, i dont think there is that much difference between 5.5 and 6.0.

All systems mentioned run DirectX 9.0c, not a problem.

i agree that modern office versions are full of crap u'll never use. i have contemplated going back from 2002 to 2000. but i wouldnt go as far as to 97. 2000 is still highly compatible with 2002 and 2003.

Hello everyone. I love the progress this awesome project has made so far. Big congrats for all the hard work done so far. I have a somewhat recently modern PC. I get asked for a variety of people why it is that I don't use XP on my machine, since it easily has the hardware to support it. There are a few reasons for that, and i'll go into those in a sec for anyone who is interested. I am a CompTIA A+, Network+, Microsoft MCP certified technician with a few years experience in the field so far. I'm not a programmer by any means, nor do I ever have a desire to be. However, from personal experience, what i've found to work best if you don't use 98lite is as follows.

1. Install Windows 98se
2. Install IE6(even if you don't use it and prefer Mozilla or some alternative browser. Windows 98 does benefit from some core IE files that get updated by installing IE6.)
3. Install DirectX 9.0c or 8.1b(personal choice, i've seen pros and cons to both)
4. Install any updated drivers needed(Why so late? Simply so that any drivers that might require any of the files provided by the updated IE core files and the upgraded version of Direct X will already have what they need installed.
5. Install Service Pack

However, if you do have a need or a desire to use Windows Media player for some reason as your default player for media, and for streaming, my alteration would be to Install the version of Windows MP you plan on using, and necessary codecs to go with it, after IE but before Direct X. I prefer a large number of other media players than the M$ one, but each to their own.

In the case of using 98lite, i'd suggest that right after installing 98SE, and setting it to chubby, then removing and slimming down things as needed after the SP has been applied.

As far as my reasoning for using a more powerful PC and 98, it's a fairly simple one. I realize that for the time being M$ still has a huge stranglehold on the OS market. Even with the more and more user friendly builds of Linux hitting the market, many people who are either uncertain, or who just don't see the point, still stick with using M$ Windows.

At the moment, I see a benefit from using M$ Windows only for the purpose of a small installation, for the use of playing my extensive collection of legacy and vintage PC games. Most new games will still run and install fine on a system using M$ Windows 9.x on a FAT32 partition. A huge number of older games, with either not run at all, or will not run well or reliably on 2000 or XP, simply due to their requirement for a functioning version of DOS or the 9.x core, or some combination of both. M$ more than proved their true colors to me with 2000, but especially with XP. Sure the "compatability" mode exists, but simply based on how the two different types of OS function, there a good number of instances that no level of tweaking will fix that prevent some great older games or programs from working on 2000 or XP.

By M$ for the most part abandoning a huge group of PC users that spent years getting rid of a lot of their old DOS programs and games to get versions compatabile with 9.x, they basicly thumbed their nose at all of us. XP makes no secret of the fact that is has little if any claim for reverse compatability. Other than a command prompt, which is more there for looks than anything, there is absolutely no DOS in XP, and no direct 9.x support either. So now after so many people have spent so much money buying copies of XP, and buying over the top systems to run it, and also stocking up on NT compatible games and software, M$ is prepared to do it again.

At present the new file system in use with Longhorn, won't have any promise of NT compatibility or support. So people might be stuck throwing everything out all over again to get all new stuff that only works with yet another new file system and core. However, the worst straw in my opinion, was the new M$ "activation" code in all their new software. Not only does this software require an internet connection to install itself, but it also required an active connection to the net to the program can get permission from some M$ server to even turn itself on and work properly.

Who knows how much of any sort of information is sent to and collected by M$ when this happens. On top of that, each software package that contains this "activation" sotware, only has a set number of "credits" with that M$ activation server. If you like to upgrade your PC frequently, or your hard drive crashed just one too many times, your out of luck. M$ has already admitted this in press conferences and news reports. Even if you wave your reciept in their faces or hit them over the head with the retail box the software came out of, they will NOT replace your CD and they will NOT issue you more activations. This is supposedly to prevet sofware piracy.

So, anyone who goes out and spends $500.00 or more buying a copy of office 2003 Professional, can easily end up having a $500.00 drink coaster with a nice shiny M$ label on it. I don't know about you, but I rarely even use drink coasters, with the possible exception of making some use of extra AOL CD's. I have no desire to own a drink coaster that costs me $500.00 or more. For that price, that coaster better fix my drinks for me, never let the ice melt, get me refills when needed, mow my lawn, wash my car, and paint my house.

Also, right now, thanks to the fine people working on DosBox, Cedega and Wine, it is getting more and more possible to not only use Linux, but to use it without having to give up your huge collection of M$ software or games. Since most companies see no reason to take a game or program they sold 5 years ago or more and make a Linux patch for it, this is one good way to make them still usable. Mandrake Linux is also one of the best, most stable, secure, and cool OS's i've ever had the joy of using. It also supports the use of either KDE or Gnome as your desktop, so you can chose either, or switch between both if you like.

So yeah, at the moment, the only reason I have anything M$ on my computer, is to have a working install of 98se for my games. The rest of my system is being quite nicely used by the current build of Mandrake Linux, the KDE desktop, and some fairly often updated versions of DosBox, Wine, and Cedega. I've seen more and more users go to a system build very much like mine every day.

Put me in a penguin suit, cause Linux is here to stay.

correct
winfs won't make it
ms is putting it off along with other stuff
sides i tried the beta longhorns n they r crap=won't goto longhorn=i'd goto linux
i use 98 and xp and 2000,for media players winamp is a good alternative to windows media player,mandrake linux 10 is pretty good just won't switch to linux yet cuzz wine don't work for me and i use windows games 24/7 and windows apps 24/7

I'm a Linux fan. I have a P-IV laptop which has Fedora Linux Core 3.

My home system is a Celeron with 256 MB RAM. It has Windows 98 SE and Windows 2000. The development of SP is on this system.

my laptop is a compaq 1235(it's a 5 year old model i purchased 3 months ago cuzz i wanted a laptop even a crappy one)it has 98 on it with 160 ram on it(when i got it it had 3 ram left on it but now it has lotsa ram)i got rid of windows 2000 and sticking to xpsp1 and xpsp2 and win 98
one day i may put w2k+sp3 on it

mine is a Compaq LTE 5300...133mhz, 80mb or RAM (9yrs old now). i use it more than my main machine cos i laze in bed a lot. this thing got me thru yr12, even tho once it wouldnt turn on wen i needed to do my work, so i had to pull it apart during my free period during 3rd period so i could get it to work during 4th period. Then i got a lecture from my teacher about backing up my work...this guy knows nothing about computers and doesnt realise a harddrive is a seperate componant.

@seraph00

A little reading for you...
http://www.msfn.org/comments.php?shownews=11234

MSFN = Microsoft Forum Network

Why not find yourself back to the linux forum you came from. Don't get me wrong, I see pluses in linux... but this board isn't for Linux. Now certainly it's your own opinion, but once again.. MICROSOFT Forum Network.



and the only reason I put gas in my car is because that's the only way it works. Sure, I could find me a nice little Linux hill and give her a push... but come on. the truth is this... Linux will NEVER be a worthy opponent until open licensing goes away and someone is able to line their pockets with the money. You all stand back and preach for open source... but one day that will all change, and if it doesn't you can rest assured Linux isn't going to take over the market.

It really depends what market you are talking about. Take the web server market for example. According to this netcraft survey the free open source Apache web server has 67.84%, while microsoft sits a distant second with only 21.19% market share. You dont have to be good with numbers to figure out who owns that market.

That being said, what would you guess is powering these msfn forums? Have a peek here.

well u could always get a conversion done so you can run ur car on petrol so it can run leaded or unleaded....with gas and petrol, ure car can run on TWO fuels!

For Win98 SE users using IE 5.5 SP2 and want to install the 834707 update
for IE 5.5 SP2, download the patch and use WinRAR, Winzip or any archiving
tool to view the patch's contents. Extract all the files inside the patch onto
a temporary folder like 'C:\Temp\834707'. From that folder type the following
from the Run dialog box:
C:\Temp\834707\ieupdate.exe Q834707
That will install the files from the IE 5.5 SP2 834707 update and you must restart
the computer in order for IE 5.5 SP2 to use the updated files.

By the way, seraph00, Office 2003 Pro is only compatible with Win2000, XP and
Server 2003 systems and O2K3 won't run under Win9x, ME & NT4. Running
Linux systems has its own pros and cons.

erpdude8 is correct,i tried installing it under windows 98 n no go,office xp or office 2002 will install under windows 98 but not office 2003,only 2000+sp3 and above it will install

You are of course correct. My point was merely to illustrate that there are nasty releases of hotfixes we need here for 98SE that nominally don't work on 98SE, but if you go "inside" you can get it to work on 98SE anyway.

Thanks for the post on that IE55-patch specific method. Will keep it in mind if any more overly-restrictive stuff comes out. So far, all 28 of the patches I know about for IE60SP1 don't need any of this kind of "help" etc.

Anyone need any expansion on the list of 28 hotfixes? [Or have MORE than 28?]

cjl

the ie 5.5 updates are too old and ie 5.5 itself,time to start thinking about ie 6 and it's updates and not ie 5.5 unless ppl want that old browser(i don't plus i can't use it cuzz my apps need ie 6)