I'm just curious to know why you consider XPlode too difficult to use?
Is it the XML portion, is it starting it, what?

My other question is, did you start to read the included documentation?

Second, did you even look at the examples? I learned XPlode with them in less than two minutes.

yeah... more important than reading the docs is to take a close look at the examples...
It's possible to learn the very basics of Xplode in a couple of minutes.

My guess is the xml coding vs the good old batch files...

I had my portion of trouble with it. (but you managed to give the good hints Alanoll and now i love it)

A mistake is made easely with a tag, so i will post my new XPlode xml again to give a ready example for new members and stimulate them to use it.
(as soon a i have the time to finish converting from v1.12)

I think it's easier to see what the installation code looks like in XPlode when used with something like Adobe reader what everybody uses in his batch files!!
Most of them figured that out allready. Something like: how to use the same cmd line but then in XPlode style!?

I know, it's all in the docs, i read them. but still.... just my 2cents

I'm not exactly a beginner, but the word XML in of itself is intimidating. I know some HTML, so it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Furthermore, when I was first introduced to XPlode, some of the older release versions had virtually no documentation, or outdated documentation, and the examples did not help very much as it was not documented very well as to what was available, optional, and mandatory.

The hardest part is and always will be coding the XML itself. After awhile, those tags get very tedious to keep typing. That is why I came up with a XML code generator specifically for XPlode.

Although this has little to do with this thread, the other glaring omission that I find in XPlode is the lack of any sort of conditionals to control the installation during an unattended setup. That's the other main reason why I wrote a XML code generator. Because of this, I have come up with a way to use WIHU to generate a config, use my XML code generator tools to convert it to XML format, and then use XPlode to install the software.

Wraith is supposedly working on it.... of course that's after he finished my little project and all his school work (which has him tied up at the moment from finishing my project).

I should look at XPlode again, with all the extra features of XPlode i thought i would be disabling most of the script so i never used it. I personally still use XPinstall as it does exactly what i want it to do and was easy to configure,

Yes yes.
You've seen a PDF of the assignment. You know how annoying it is.

What Alanoll says is correct. There's going to be an XML creator with X5.
I had hoped to get some prerelease work done on it already, but university has put it off for a while. I hope to get something simple out the door in 3-4 weeks, so we'll see how things go.

I've got something out right now that has been written completely in VBScript. And I've got a major update that should be ready in a week or so (Probably by this weekend). It works quite well from the command line, so it can be used in scripts to generate XML on the fly, which is what I've been doing.

But I bet you have prior experience with XML and/or any other type of coding.

Those of us who don't, the examples might as well be Latin.

As for the manual it is written in a non user friendly manner ( again for the code impaired ) It of course should start with " How To Get Started".
But as far as I can tell the part that explains how to start it is in chapter 4

I know it would take time and considerable effort, but a guide written similar to the Unattended CD/DVD guide would definantly go a long way to making it easier to understand and use.

Just my 2cents

Except you would want to configure the XML first or Xplode will just flash.


I knew I should have left it in....

good thing i remembered to leave a copy of it on the server during the testing period....

http://unattended.msfn.org/advanced/methods/xplode.old

That makes sense, but i think it would be better to mention this right from the start.

When I first looked at it, I had no idea what was being said and where to start. I feel a simple how to get started would go a long way toward help people understand what needs to be done to use xplode. something similar to the hello world example for batch scripting. ( a small exercise to help understand how it works, and what is required in XML)

After about 20 mins reading the manual and a few searches on the forum, I decided xplode would be great when ever it got a better manual. Until then I couldn't spend the time it would require for me to understand it. ( I still don't, i just saw this thread and thought I'd add my 2cents and maybe get a manual a code impaired individual like myself could understand)


p.s. when I click on the link you provided I get what looks to be html. Is this supposed to be an example of xplode xml ?

better?

http://unattended.msfn.org/advanced/methods/xplode2.htm

If you used IE, it should have loaded the last one fine.

I don't know what's so hard about XPlode.
I have NO XML knowledge whatsoever.. but looking at the examples did the trick for me...
had to use the manual just 2 or 3 times.. and no, I don't think it's written in an user unfriendly way..

what's so hard to understand: <starttag> stuff to do </endtag>
translating from 2 to 4 was a breeze too... but timeconsuming since I have a rather large XML file

Yeah that's better.
why was this taken out of the guide ? It is would be alot more helpful if it were still there.

I use Firefox by the way. (but won't even start that argument )

Because the included documentation with XPlode is alot better.

Hey Alanoll - Had a simple question regarding the <program> tag. Is it possible to use it multiple times in one execute?
EX:
<execute display="Java + Update" desc="Java Runtimes">
<program>#XPLODE#\Java\Java.exe</program>
<arguments>/s</arguments>
<program>#XPLODE#\Java\Javaupdate.exe</program>
<arguments>/s</arguments>
</execute>

Thanks.

In regards to the topic at hand.....XPLode is SIMPLE. All you need is ONE example....just ONE and it all makes sense.

Nope, but you can use different executes in one ITEM

If this is true Nanaki - How would I go about doing 2 Programs in one selection (So that when someone makes the checkmark for Java, it installs Java+The update?)

It's not possible at the moment, but I am contemplating adding a <group> tag for such a thing in the future.

When I can work on XPlode again is still up in the air - busy gathering data for a project I'm working on at university. Won't be at a dev computer for at least another few days.

Wow, talk about topic derailment.

I agree with nujackk. Look, I've been programming HTML, PHP, etc., etc., etc. for quite some time now. But it's not the issue of whether or not examples are easy to follow or the directions are user friendly for me - follow the common standard if you're going to write documentation. Any type of writing has, since the beginning of the age of reason, had three common elements, and were always more or less in order: beginning, middle, end. In the case of this manual, who's to say which is which?

My $.02, not that it matters. Honestly, I don't have time to figure out the documentation or how this application works, so yes, I'll be moving on. But you asked the question....

I had a little trouble understanding how to write the xml at first, but managed to work it out using a combination of examples which come with the xplode program and also by reading working xmls contributed in posts by forum members and by also reading the manual.
I think the manual (pdf) which comes with XPlode is well written, however I can understand how someone with no prior knowledge of writing xml code could feel lost. I found myself skipping back and forth through the chapters of the manual rather than reading it in the order it was written. It's a difficult job to write a manual of any kind, it's even harder to write it so that many different people who all have different thinking patterns can use it well. I think you did a good job
One thing which I think helps very much is when a question is posted and the response is "read the manual". I am guilty of posting such a question and I'm kind of glad that I got this response cause I think it's easier to understand the answer if you take the time and effort to work it out for yourself rather than just be hand fed the answer.

I really meant no disrespect by my post, so let me clarify. I know writing a manual's no easy chore. And more often than not, programmers are NOT writers and vic versa. It's usually better that if you want a good manual written, you give the responsibility to someone who's good at writing them. Not always a plausible solution, I know.

It wasn't specifically supposed to be a manual, just a reference for what people needed to look up.

Getting it to work is described better in the unattended guide, and I've always said that people should be looking at that and knowing how the methods described there work before even attempting to try XPlode.

slight problem....
a. the Unattended guide doesn't really have a section that goes through detailing all the parts of setup you can launch something form...
b. the page for XPlode just tells them to read your PDF

Now if you're little project for was done.... and you weren't off doing school stuff right now...

I meant that after you'd used CMDLINES.TXT or RunOnce or whatever, you'd know how to launch XPlode and get it running.

Not how to run stuff from XPlode in the first place - that's what the examples and the PDF are for.

I agree with Wraith....you dont need a manual to describe this stuff..... hmmmmm theres a tag called <program>.....common sense tells you it has something to do with the program you wish to run in that <execute> tab....therefore, you would be <EXECUTING> a <PROGRAM>. You dont need a manual to describe every function.....Its common sense.

Unfortunately, a lot of people in this world don't have common sense.

Agreed. Look at the EULA fiasco.

I agree, I tried XPlode in the beginning and I gave up. After a month or so (when I actually made my first uA disc with RunOnceEx) I tried XPlode and it only took a couple of minutes to make it work.

The point of guides is to get past the so called common sense issue.
My common sense told me to not bother with xplode, because it did not give me a way to get started!
It didn't say look at the examples right from the start. ( again going back to putting in a simple how to get started section right at the begining )

My common sense said WPI is better because I could see and figure out where to get started.

I try not to be rude, especially since I will probably need most of you to help me at some point, But....

Instead of being smug jerks about it, take the constructive critizism and simple add a section at the begining telling us where and how to start.
How hard is that?

No, thats common laziness. If you dont even wanna to examine the code, thats PURE laziness. You just admitted it, you were too lazy to examine the code.

Here's the problem with that statement....

I expect you to START and understand the process of batch file/runonceEX before moving on to XPlode/WPI/WIHU or similar ADVANCED methods. Since we EXPECT you to know how to start something doing setup, there is NO NEED for a repeat of it in the ADVANCED methods. Wait, that's that you're asking? What about the switches for XPlode? Well...that's what the documentation is included for. It details the switches, but we have no need to specifically say "Enter this into CMDLINES.TXT to have XPlode start during setup" as we EXPECT you to already know this once progressing to XPlode or similar. Even WPI doesn't tell you to put it in CMDLINES.TXT.

Perhaps I've gone on a complete tangent to what you were trying to say, I don't know. But this is my general way of teaching and doing things. I start peopel with the basics, prior to advanced stuff. As a analogy, let's take math. It'd be like a Calculus teacher explaining how to add two numbers. They don't, they expect you to have already learned that.

XML is one of the easiest languages to pick up, especially XPlode XML as it's mre of a simplified form. XML isn't really a language anyway. Just a way to store data and access it easily.

We tell you to start looking at the examples, and such. By the way, you never actually responded to my other XPlode page that didn't make it into the guide? Is that helpful?

No the only thing I admited was I didn't know where to start.
And if you would read the entire thread, you would see that, I am admittedly code impaired, and trying to learn.
So the assumption that I would know what to do just by looking at the code is silly!!

I have answered the question, if you would rather insult and be smug low self esteem jerks then please feel free just don't ask the question if you can't take the answer.

I would think the whole point of this thread is to find a way to make xplode
not put us (us being the less coderifc amoung you gods ) off.

I have said my peace, I will only look at this one more time to make note of the one's who feel the need to insult me, to be sure not to ignore them in the future.

As for your xplode page that didn't make into the guide, I thought I did respond and say it was, I aslo asked why it was not in the guide.
as for the rest of the statement, the main problem is that assumptions are being made.
I actually came across xplode and wpi, and this sight, by way of nlite's website.
And never actually saw the guide until after much explorering.
So I was put off by xplode before ever seeing a guide, thus you point doesn't work.
without the guide I was able to figure out wpi and nlite( who couldn't figure out nlite right) xplode just made no sense and Plainly did show me where to start.

You Asked a question I gave an answer and instead of taking an objective look at it and comming up with way to do it or just not. I get insulted

what's that? that's not helping me, that not teaching me how to use it.
I am coompletely self taught, I know how to read guides I can figure this out on my own, that is not the point. I simple answer the question "why do you consider xplode hard to use?"

That being said you guys figure it out. I wrote it off a long time ago since I have no need for the pretty gui anyway.

thx

No one is insulting you. The only thing you hear from me or anyone else is facts. If I wanted to insult you I would turn 10 all over again and cause a roar. Not having the willingness to look and compare is LAZINESS if thats not, then I dont know what is. The only person insulting others is YOU.

Enough.