I did a quick review of 3.0a7 code and was shocked with Gecko developers' laziness:
In fact, nothing prevented them to make absolutely 98 compatible version: they even have own GetGlyphIndices wrapper, there still a hell lot 98-compatibility code, and SetWorldTransform() is used only for scaling.

It does not seems hard to make 9x-friendly version, i think it is harder to understand their creepy build system

I don't know where you get that date from. Firefox 3 will be released by the end of this year or beginning of 2008.
Mozilla supports the previous version for six months only.

Just had an official reply on the FF support newsgroup; looks like official support will end "sometime" in 2008 :-(

Tihiy, they simply don't want to make Win9x compatible version because users base of those systems is relatively small.
But for me as the user of Firefox it's more interesting that such talented programmer like you thinks it could possible (not only theoretically but also practically).

I just read 58% still use 98se. Of course not all use Firefox.


One thing, I wish people would not use is User Agent Switcher unless absolutely necessary.

Eh, they're just anti-Win9x fanboys. They complain about code not being easy to read, etc. Since Microsoft ended support for Win98 and WinME a year ago, they thought the time was ripe to remove the support.

For me K-meleon is a good alternative to Firefox concerning win9x support.

K-Meleon is also based on Gecko. It'll stop working just the same with Gecko 1.9 on Win9x.

have to use Opera then

If remains previous version of Gecko 1.9 between downloads could be great.
On their little forum there is a certain number of people using win9x.

Or you could still use Firefox 2.0.0.?

Gran Paradiso (aka. Firefox 3) is still not in beta phase yet but the alpha 8 release is now available here:
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/3.0a8/releasenotes/

firefox 3.0 beta 1 isn't quite ready yet. it looks like the Digg.com web site leaked out the info too soon as noted in this Mozilla Developer article here:
http://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index...ou-digg-us-but/

You can only use Firefox 2.0.0.x under Win98/ME/NT4, gpatrick. FF 2.0x doesn't run under Win95 as it crashes under that OS. Win95 users may want to try out the latest FF 1.5.x nightly build here since no more official FF 1.5 releases are being produced.

Or they could use the latest SeaMonkey.

true.

Firefox 3.0 beta 1 is now available. Topic discussed here:
http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=22714

Release Notes of Firefox 3.0 Beta 1 posted here:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/3.0b1/releasenotes/
FF 3.0 beta requires at least Win2000 to run.

Soon the next generation of SeaMonkey (2.0) will be in beta and will require a minimum of Win2k.

Anyone doing anything to get firefox 3 / win98SE compatibility?

I thought SeaMonkey was not going to follow in Firefox footsteps?

They're not going to. But they do use the same rendering engine, and that's what has become incompatible with Win9x.

I found some stuff (a bit old) about FF3 and win98SE here:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331723

More to the point, perhaps, here's some info I got today from the Firefox support group:

"The reason why Win98 isn't supported is because it would require a lot _a lot_ of work to add support for it, even for experienced Firefox & Windows developers.

"If you or your group are willing to do the work, there is AFAIK no reason why it couldn't be supported, but I'm afraid you are already too late for Firefox 3 as they have already released beta. You could get support for the next version, assuming you are able to write the patch fast enough.

"You would probably get help from the developers also. But I seriously suggest that you first study how big task this is.

"If you wonder why Firefox 2 works, but Firefox 3 doesn't. The reason is within the changes to the core of the Firefox. Firefox 3 uses Cairo, which doesn't work in Win98, due to lack of API functions that are available on more modern operating systems."

So there's some positive stuff to follow-up on mixed in with the negative. I only wish I had the programming skills to do this...Could anyone elect to follow-up on it and keep us informed?

They could use the old rendering engine. They do not need to go with Firefox.

To the other Poster
Cairo has or had an earlier version is used in other browsers that does work on Windows 98se. At least that what I read somewhere on the Firefox forums.

I just hope other browsers do not upgrade to the new rendering engine.

There wouldn't be much point in using the old rendering engine if it's only for the sake of Win9x compatibility, especially for a Mozilla project. Never mind they've done a lot of other changes too.

That doesn't matter one bit, as the proposed shim library idea was insufficient, and thus no specific code needs to get into the tree.

Waiting for beta was actually sort of my intention, because it has to have stabilised first. I didn't look forward to experiencing all sorts of crashes, data loss and other stuff that goes on on the trunk and then figure out if it's because of Win9x patches or a core bug.

Considering how anti-Win9x most Mozilla developers are, and that a shim library isn't sufficient, this is laughable.

Reading through the thread on the link I posted, I tend to agree that there is a strong anti-Win9x prejudice. If I can help out with any donkey-work do send me a PM.

Good luck!

Firefox 3.0 Beta 2 now posted. See here:
http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=22782

Release Notes for Firefox 3 beta 2:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/3.0b2/releasenotes/

Merry Christmas, everyone!

Hi guys,

I just stumbled across this topic from Google. I still use Win98SE on a fairly new system that could run Vista (...), but I'm perfectly happy with 98. I have a laptop with XP on it but still would rather use 98 because I feel it's quicker and less bloated, it's secure, rarely crashes, 8mb ADSL runs like a dream on it, and I have no problems with Office XP and Flash/Dw MX 2004 which all run fine on it. Whoever it was that described it like an old reliable car is completely right.

It's a shame FF 3 won't 'officially' be supported, as FF is a really nice browser even though I use Opera more. But a compatible version for 98se/me would be awesome. I and many other w98se users would be extremely grateful that this good OS would still be very useable when it comes down to web standards.

Keep up the good work.

unfortunately, it's never going to happen, Graz. Gecko 1.9 based browsers like Firefox 3 seem to never work under Win9xME OSes, including the Seamonkey 2.0 alpha nightly builds I've tested. they keep crashing under 98se after launching them, even with KernelEx installed.

But at least Firefox 3 and the Seamonkey 2.0 alpha nightly builds work with at least Win2000 and Win2k is more stable than Win98se.

BTW - Firefox 3.0 beta 3 released last night:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/3.0b3/releasenotes/

So you think it's never going to happen because the official builds don't work on Win9x? My, aren't you smart. (/sarcasm)

well, is there anyone out there brave enough to even make Firefox 3 or any Gecko 1.9 based browser work properly under Win9xME? What about you, BenoitRen? Don't look at me cuz I don't have the answer to that question. I thought ivanbuto would find certain people who have the guts to make Gecko 1.9 browsers run under Win9x by now. That hasn't happened either.

BTW- Firefox 3.0 Beta 4 now available here:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/3.0b4/releasenotes/

Firefox 3 beta 5 now available:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/3.0b5/releasenotes/

getting closer to either the RC or final release of FF3...

So far, BETA5 is missing the following dependancies (check of the main firefox executable).

USER32.DLL
GetLastInputInfo()

GDI32.DLL
GetTextExtentExPointI()
GetGlyphIndicesW()
GetGlyphIndicesA()
GetFontUnicodeRanges()

Paging Xeno86, paging Xeno86, this is a call for KernelEx!

If we satisfied those dependancies, I wonder whether we would make some progress with Firefox 3?

i know i'm not on here much at all.... but i was just thinking that....

KernelEx 3.3a was this -> <- close to running a Cairo proggy on my 98SE, but it failed to initialize scaled fonts. If KernelEx manages to run Cairo, all GTK+ programs should quickly follow, including Firefox 3. I don't think that day is far away.

Indeed:
http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/6422/yhalotharib7.png
Here is Firefox 3 working on Windows 98 SE. Just fonts are not working.
Does anybody have compiled Cairo Win32 program to test more closely?

Check GTK+ official site.

Thank You, Captain Obvious!
I'll repeat then: Does anybody have sample compiled Cairo Win32 program which will show Cairo errors?

WOW!!! Firefox 3 is almost here for the win 98se and Me community! Keep the power up!! *Screams and shouts*

Got it working... mostly

Well, MoCo don't have one relaxed man-day to make FF3 run ok on older systems.
I think they deserve a good kick in the nuts and a good lecture about consequences of fanboyism.

You're absolutely right! The reason is that you've more talent and of course devotion to the Win9x family!
Fantastic effort, Tihiy!!
Btw, how you achieve this: have you used KernelEx or in some other way?

Great news! Well done! Now we're all waiting to find out how :-)

Tihiy, one more thing: maybe that would be a good idea to demonstrate those screenshots to make Mozilla Foundation people ashamed.

Better to let sleeping dogs lie IMO. There's some guys who really hate folks that don't "upgrade"/go along with the sytem etc. They could make things difficult...

Yes, I guess you're right. They could change something in the code.

Awesome work!

So? We can just change it back. That's the power of CVS.

Unfortunately, there's no we - that was made by Tihiy alone (as I presume).

I've released first version of Firefox 3 patcher:
http://www.msfn.org/board/Firefox-3-on-Win...Me-t115594.html

GOGOGO!
SHAME ON MOZILLA FANBOYS!

And who's saying Tihiy is the only capable l33t hax0or here! I can build and edit Mozilla code too!

Looks like he's using KernelEx. Hmm. Well, I would help, but I have been missing my development box for weeks now. For some strange reason my motherboard got busted...

Your thread appears to have been deleted :'(

Edit: Nevermind, I think the threads were merged.

It´s set on hold for now, there could be legal issues.



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