If anything, we could do what Debian had to do, and rename Firefox to something else. Or maybe we can just piggyback on the already existing "IceCat" name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceweasel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat

What, O what has happened to Tihiy's Uberkern thread? Looks like the whole thing has vanished

If this is some kind of "officialdom" at least let us know, please? And if Tihiy is reading this, perhaps he could send me a PM.

Bleeder, you are right about that. I see that you have more brains then the others have, and with that respect.

Analada, call it whatever you want, but there are "legal" issues here, and they could hold the forum staff responsible for it.

Not only this one but some other Tihiy's threads vanished too!
PuntoMX, is this crime and punishment?
I'd prefer to see that moderators act in more diplomatic way.

We do, they are set on hold, not deleted.

As we speak, the staff has come together about this issue, not only about Tihiy attitude but also about breaking the "rights" in other projects.
I suspended Tihiy for 3 days, after that MSFN will see what can and will be done.
Let me clear one thing, it´s not about misuse of authority here, It´s NEVER personal.

Links you gave were quite informative. Maybe they point a way forward.

But it's been known for months what the Frefox in win98Se project on this forum was all about. Not a whisper or hint of complaint ("legal" or otherwise). But now that there is (was) something that actually works; ... O well, that's a different story it seems.

However, I still think that out of politeness for the multiple hours of work that have gone into this project, the forum members deserve something better than just a vague reference to "legal" issues. Who has complained? Why? What is the real issue, here?



At the risk, presumably, of being suspended myself, for having the temerity to ask a question of you, I must say that I am forensically puzzled as to how the statements "Tihiy attitude" and "It's NEVER personal" can be cogently and rationally reconciled.

Say he was a little upset (I don't know) perhaps you might care to show a bit of humanity for him and reflect on the many, many, hours he has put into this project? Don't you think even you would be upset?

Folks, if my thread also vanishes into the ether, aka Winston and Orwell's 1984, at least you will know why! b77alpha (at) beeb.net

Analada, you made me laugh, thank you for that (shows humanity).

Let me quote some of your questions and reply to them.

I agree that actions should have taken earlier, but as an official topic was opened for the project we had to take action on it.

Unfortunately, sir, laughter is not the emotion I feel by your actions in unilaterally suspending Tihiy and deleting whole tranches of posts.

What is it about using scorn to deflect attention from issues?

Breaking in to bank could be a lot of work too, and I assure you it is, still it doesn´t mean that the person can go out without being judged about. The real issue is stated before, and MSFN has to respect EULAs from ANY company that the code/images belong too.

In this case the person picked is used as an example, which I repeat is nothing personal.

A little exaggerating aren´t we? If your posts are not violating any of our rules or general laws then there is no use of doing so.

I repaid, nothing got deleted.

You seem to have a gross misunderstanding about this. There's no legal issue with releasing a wrapper that a user then uses to make Firefox 3 run on Win98 SE. That's the user's personal responsibility.

There is a legal issue with releasing an unofficial build branded as Firefox. Tihiy did no such thing. He links to the official builds.

To be very short: we´ve "talked" about it before. MSFN has to take more actions about against violating EULAs.

EULA? Which EULA? This isn't a Microsoft product.

Firefox is open-source, for crying out loud! But they do have a trademark. Here is the trademark policy: http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/policy.html

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/legal/eula/firefox-en.html
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/legal/eula/

Maybe instead of talking about violating EULA/s it would be easier to send email to MoCo with the question?

That's what I get for using SeaMonkey and not Firefox, I guess.

Anyway. The EULA (of which you'd better use version 2) does not prohibit anyone from distributing an unmodified official Firefox. Tihiy posted a wrapper for Firefox 3 Beta 5. A wrapper does not modify Firefox.

It would be nice to hear some positive suggestions from you as to:

(1) How you think this project can be continued
(2) That you intend to invite Tihiy back ASAP.

Leaving aside my personal distaste as to how this matter has been handled, I really do think that by your actions you have probably killed the project off, at least as far as this forum. (I hope i am proven wrong).

Tihiy, if you're reading this and want some funds to continue this project, e.g. to set up a website, elsewhere, and use that instead of this Orwellian-controlled forum, just let me know. Hopefully some others will contribute also. Hey! All that's needed is a suitable webpage or two. Google et al will soon identify it to the 98SE punters out there!

You've forgotten that we are on the Microsoft software forum and that explains a lot!

The moderation staff are speaking about this in a general review of the board contents. We apologize this particular project was put "on hold" temporarily, but it wasn't the first and will not be the last. I am fairly confident this will be resolved today or tomorrow and then more will be known, but do not take out your anger on PuntoMX. This is something we should have done long ago but didn't have the manpower to do until recently, so we are currently reviewing all forum projects to make sure we aren't violating the legal rights of copyright, IP, and patent holders. The Mozilla foundation and Firefox project authors did not code Firefox B3 for Win9x OSes, and the EULA / License for the beta was a gray area on whether or not this is allowed (other projects, like Debian, have run into similar issues).

This is being dealt with. Please PM me if you have other questions, let's take this offline for now.

No they didn't. The "problem" with Debian was not including Firefox or running it on their system, but Debian's stringent (some would say draconian) requirements about software being free. The name "Firefox" cannot be used if the source code is modified significantly; Swiftfox is an example of this. Hence, Iceweasel, Debian's version, was simply compiled with different graphics and name. Debian's version isn't even really modifed; they just didn't like the idea that you couldn't

See the pages on trademarks and community edition branding.

Also counts when one bit is changed. It doesn´t matter how much it´s changed to say...

There is absolutely no alteration, not even one bit, to the source code. It's just a wrapper, that's all.

AFAICT not one person of official standing on the Firefox support group thinks there's anything even remotely not legal about this. Also they tell me it's been done before (a wrapper I mean) in a non-win98Se context, and that was perfectly legal it seems. HTH

Considering that Cairo 1.9 does not work on Windows 9x/Me because of certain API, the patch that enables compatibility on 9x/Me is considered a significant change.

If it was a patch that modified the binaries then yes, but AFAIK, it is purely a wrapper and does not in any way modify a single bit in the official binaries.
Correct me if I'm wrong?
It is really running like a VM for Firefox - perfectly allowable.
No software vendor complains if someone runs their software in a VM like WINE, VMWare, Virtual PC, DOS Box, and others.
Afterall, Windows itself runs every app in a VM!

Thoughts to ponder...

Firefox 3.0 Release Candidate 1 now available:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-rc.html

getting real close to the final product.

Firefox 3.0 Release Candidate 2 now available:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-rc.html

getting warmer...

1) I already knew. Old news.
2) Announcing each release in this thread doesn't help at all.

doesn't bother me. if you're bothered by it, ignore my future posts and move on with your life, Benoit-dude!
starting to get on my nerves

Looks like Mozilla is just about ready to release the final version of Firefox 3 on June 17:
http://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index...17th-firefox-3/

Posting in this thread doesn't bother me either, but that doesn't mean I should.

Hi all,
I copied this from a post I made in the 'last working software....' thread.

'Firefox Setup 2.0.0.14.exe' Last version to work with Win98, and I noticed yesterday that there was an update available to 2.0.0.15.

RainyD says: "Here is the link to the Firefox 2.0.0.15: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-older.html "

"For running Firefox 3.0 on Win98/ME check this thread (especially last pages): http://www.msfn.org/board/KernelEx-v034-released-t71476.html "

-D'oh! Sometimes I'm glad I'm wrong........

Sorry, but I don't know what you talking about. Here is the link to the Firefox 2.0.0.15: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-older.html

For running Firefox 3.0 on Win98/ME check this thread (especially last pages): http://www.msfn.org/board/KernelEx-v034-released-t71476.html