thanx again Doc Symbiosis for that wee prog, InstallRite i made installkits with it for all the 4 progs i was having probs with and they all install unattended, didnt need a switch either and no need to register them when i go to run them just got 2 small probs now magiciso and xbox360 desktop both install fine but dont show up on the start menu, there just installed straight to the C:\Program Files is there anyway i can get them to show up on my start menu unattended