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galahs

Compatible Hardware with Windows 9x

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cov3rt    2

anyone know if there is a windows 95 driver for the audio device with hardware id of "PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4341"? i've downloaded a package, for both the w95 and 98 folders, they reference to cmi9738 for the audio device next to the hardware id, however, only the 98 package shows "PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4341". the hardware id links to AMD ATI® IXP150 AC97 Audio Controller from a quick google search. im not sure if the chipset of this laptop im working with is even supported for w95 or if it was mentioned anywhere in this thread or elsewhere, so im also trying to see if there are working chipset drivers for the laptop, gpu drivers, or other drivers. for example, i've been able to get the mobility 9000 and 9600/9700 to work on w95 before, however this laptop has a slightly different model, its the ati mobility 9100. 

the laptop has a current installation of windows xp so i was able to get some info beforehand, though i dont have the laptop just yet to see all hardware ids and devices. i've found an earlier chipset package of gart9x, it mentions "windows 95" inside the inf file text and also has vxd files in the package, so i would assume it might work. interestingly, for the ati mobility 9100 or radeon 9100 in general, i've found many many different hardware ids. this was somewhat a similar problem with the radeon x600 or x700, where only certain hardware ids are supported under 98SE apparently. i think lonecrusader was the one that mentioned he couldnt get any drivers to work on his mobility x600 or x700 on one of his laptops, and so i was using him as this example.

i also researched and found out that apparently the radeon 8500le is literally the same exact gpu at the radeon 9100 or very very close, just differentiating mostly in transistor fabrication mostly. i was thinking of taking one route of possibly using the official 8500le w95 driver to install it for the ati mobility 9100. other options are to use "PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5834",  "PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_516d",  or "PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_514d". all of these apparently had official windows 95 drivers or proper packaging with vxd files that would otherwise support w95. 

another thing is that the hardware ids also sometimes change based on the operating system, ( this was the case for the ati m6 or radeon 7500 when tested on 98 vs 95 ) so its possible that windows xp showing the ati mobility 9100 as  "PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5835" is really the "PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5834" that is provided in these w95 packages i have, therefore providing a possible working driver. the laptop either comes with up to 100 mbps ethernet or 1000, im hoping its the 100 with realtek 8100 as it will have a w95 driver and i was hoping to get w95 installed on this laptop from the start. the chipset i think is rc300m or sb200, i couldn't find much info on this particular chipset. 

please let me know if i should progress this topic into a separate thread or if its ok to get answers directly in this thread. 

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rloew    88

Hardware IDs do not change because of Operating System. A few multi-mode devices will change ID if they are reconfigured. This is usually done in the BIOS or by a driver that recognizes the Device in either mode. In the latter case, Windows will only see the default setting. To use the alternate ID would require a configuration program to be run from AUTOEXEC.BAT.
I have done this to switch off AHCI Mode before running Windows.

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ruthan    1

I just tested Gigabyte Z97P-D3 its working, booting into fully installed Windows 98 and there its stable, i used only PCI-E GPU in VGA mode (Its working with Russian Bear drivers) and IDE controller in PCI slot.. i didnt tested anything special, Sata in IDE mode - running - no MS-DOS mode, but i dont have any connected device. No USB for now. 

Edited by ruthan

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98SE    7
16 hours ago, ruthan said:

I just tested Gigabyte Z97P-D3 its working, booting into fully installed Windows 98 and there its stable, i used only PCI-E GPU in VGA mode (Its working with Russian Bear drivers) and IDE controller in PCI slot.. i didnt tested anything special, Sata in IDE mode - running - no MS-DOS mode, but i dont have any connected device. No USB for now. 

The Bear Drivers will be pointless for gaming.  I couldn't get DOSBOX to function on it.  You need to try and install a 6800 Ultra PCIe to test if 98 VGA drivers will function.

Can you test a SB Audigy PCI sound card or other 98SE driver sound card to verify 98 sound driver installs and it functions in this Z97 and see if will detect the sound card inside the Device Manager?

Test the USB Ports to see if USB Mouse, Keyboard, and Sound Card will work on it.

Edited by 98SE

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ruthan    1
Quote

The Bear Drivers will be pointless for gaming.  I couldn't get DOSBOX to function on it.  You need to try and install a 6800 Ultra PCIe to test if 98 VGA drivers will function.

   I wasnt on my primary living location, but in my city lair in Prague, so resources were limited so not PCI or Win98x compatible PCI-E car there, i just wanted something better than 640x480x16, i have tried Microsoft Super VGA driver - no go for Radeon X1300.
 

Quote

Can you test a SB Audigy PCI sound card or other 98SE driver sound card to verify 98 sound driver installs and it functions in this Z97 and see if will detect the sound card inside the Device Manager?

   Audigy i depends, there some models of Audigy 1+2 compatible with W98, i made Audigy 1 - SB0160 worked in other board, there is 95%+ percent chance that it would work with this board.

Audio: Realtek 887, i dont think that is backcompatible with AC97 or SB, so i didnt even tried, but yes Sound card device was detected.

 

 

Quote

Test the USB Ports to see if USB Mouse, Keyboard, and Sound Card will work on it.

   USB, there was problem with USB hardware detection, because of faulty GPU used for installation.. i got pretty clean hardware device tree, most of devices were detected after addition of PCI bus device, i had some very strange mouse behavior, it worked (mouse cursor movent was there about somehow broken, position detection was wrong) even without OS driver - no USB controller at all.. 
    USB PCI controller was detected, but i never get USB hub device working, everytime problem with driver (so no usb device detected at all), in tried every bios USB related  setting, nUSB 3.6 driver, but hub never worked.. Board have only Intel USB 3/2 controller, i wonder if somehow made it working in Win98?

LAN:
 In manual is only Realtek PCIE 1 GB/s as type nothing more, regarding of SIV info, it should be some Realtek 8169, i have tried Realtek PCIE- Gigabite driver, device was detected, but not worked, i think that someone here said that Realtek PCI-E are no go, maybe some DOS driver magic..

 

Edited by ruthan

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98SE    7
23 hours ago, ruthan said:

   I wasnt on my primary living location, but in my city lair in Prague, so resources were limited so not PCI or Win98x compatible PCI-E car there, i just wanted something better than 640x480x16, i have tried Microsoft Super VGA driver - no go for Radeon X1300.
 

   Audigy i depends, there some models of Audigy 1+2 compatible with W98, i made Audigy 1 - SB0160 worked in other board, there is 95%+ percent chance that it would work with this board.

Audio: Realtek 887, i dont think that is backcompatible with AC97 or SB, so i didnt even tried, but yes Sound card device was detected.

 

LAN:
 In manual is only Realtek PCIE 1 GB/s as type nothing more, regarding of SIV info, it should be some Realtek 8169, i have tried Realtek PCIE- Gigabite driver, device was detected, but not worked, i think that someone here said that Realtek PCI-E are no go, maybe some DOS driver magic..

 

(Your board)

Audio on board is Realtek® ALC887 codec

Realtek LAN unknown codec

2 x PCI slots

Intel 4 x USB 3.0/2.0 ports (2 ports on the back panel, 2 ports available through the internal USB header)
Intel 10 x USB 2.0/1.1 ports (4 ports on the back panel, 6 ports available through the internal USB headers)

1 x PS/2 keyboard port
1 x PS/2 mouse port

serial port

/////

/////

/////

Okay if you can't bring this motherboard home for testing.

Remove the PCIe card and it will use the Intel HD Graphics on the HDMI video out.  Windows 98 can use this for the video test.  Video card is not needed here yet if it is causing problems.  You can also go to BIOS to adjust Shared Memory of Intel HD to 32MB.

 

----The mouse problem is this on the PS/2 port also? or just the USB port? or BOTH?

If both are having problems you can use the serial port with serial mouse.  This will work 100%.

Does your onboard Realtek Audio show up in the Device Manager and is the sound driver installed and working?  If working did you test 3.5mm output headphone jack?

Audigy 1 - SB0160 - bring this card from home and install the card into the Z97 to see if it detects and install the 98 driver and test for audio output.

If both sound options (onboard Realtek and SB Audigy 1) works fine for Audio then you can try adding either a PCI or PCIe 6XXX graphics card for testing video.  Make sure it has 128MB or 256MB video memory at most.  You can deal with 7XXX and 512MB cards much later when a functional 98SE SB Audigy and nVidia 6XXX card both work and games are not stuttering.  Lan isn't a deal breaker as most will just reboot to XP or W7 for internet.


 

Quote

 USB, there was problem with USB hardware detection, because of faulty GPU used for installation.. i got pretty clean hardware device tree,

Clean hardware device tree?  Did you mean no PCI or PCIe installed cards were detected in the Device Manager?

Quote

most of devices were detected after addition of PCI bus device, i had some very strange mouse behavior, it worked (mouse cursor movent was there about somehow broken, position detection was wrong) even without OS driver - no USB controller at all.. 
   

The addition of the PCI bus device are you talking about adding a PCI USB card? or the PS/2 ports detecting in Windows 98 first time?

 

Quote

USB PCI controller was detected, but i never get USB hub device working, everytime problem with driver (so no usb device detected at all), in tried every bios USB related  setting, nUSB 3.6 driver, but hub never worked.. Board have only Intel USB 3/2 controller, i wonder if somehow made it working in Win98?

Is this the Onboard Intel USB controller here?  Did this show up under Device Manager needing driver?

What is the drive and capacity you are testing the 98 install?

How did you partition the drive space out?

Edited by 98SE

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ruthan    1

Well, you dont need post whole specs of my own MB, i know it..

GPU - i see as less evil, old Radeon generation after last ATI supported card, that integrated GPU in CPU, for test it was ok. 
   I will think about really use of this board for Windows 98, i will get proper GPU, i know what exactly dont worry.

PS2 - As i said, is wasnt in my primary lair, so i havent PS2 mouse, it wasnt planned test, i just tested it, when i have tried to create USB flashdisk to install Winodws 98, so i have to experiment with USB mouse.

Quote

Does your onboard Realtek Audio show up in the Device Manager and is the sound driver installed and working?  If working did you test 3.5mm output headphone jack?

   Is in device manager as PCI Multimedia device, i dont believe that Realtek HD adapters are supported in Windows 98. If im wrong point me to driver..

Quote

Clean hardware device tree?  Did you mean no PCI or PCIe installed cards were detected in the Device Manager?

 There are only few basic generic components, any uknow device, any special devices, just CPU, codecs, dial adapter etc.. Probably because computer crashed during HW detection, because of bad memory of videocard and after this step was i dont really know why skipped. I have to add PCI bus device to detect anything my HW specific devices..

Quote

The addition of the PCI bus device are you talking about adding a PCI USB card? or the PS/2 ports detecting in Windows 98 first time?

  No its just trick from Rloew add PCI bus device for detection of Mainboard devices, used primary after MB change without reinstall.. i would expect that such thing should to do, addition of Plug and Play system device, but its handling by PCI bus device.. So no any additional PS or USB cards for now..

Quote

Is this the Onboard Intel USB controller here?  Did this show up under Device Manager needing driver?

   Yes there was PCI USB universal controller uknow device..
 

Quote

What is the drive and capacity you are testing the 98 install?

  As i wrote in original post it was 16 GB SD card, in SD card to IDE adapter connected to PCI IDE Sil Medley 0680 controller, i also just wanted to test this adapter, its slow but its working.

Quote

How did you partition the drive space out?

 All into one FAT32 partition.

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98SE    7
6 hours ago, ruthan said:

Well, you dont need post whole specs of my own MB, i know it..

GPU - i see as less evil, old Radeon generation after last ATI supported card, that integrated GPU in CPU, for test it was ok. 
   I will think about really use of this board for Windows 98, i will get proper GPU, i know what exactly dont worry.

PS2 - As i said, is wasnt in my primary lair, so i havent PS2 mouse, it wasnt planned test, i just tested it, when i have tried to create USB flashdisk to install Winodws 98, so i have to experiment with USB mouse.

   Is in device manager as PCI Multimedia device, i dont believe that Realtek HD adapters are supported in Windows 98. If im wrong point me to driver..

 There are only few basic generic components, any uknow device, any special devices, just CPU, codecs, dial adapter etc.. Probably because computer crashed during HW detection, because of bad memory of videocard and after this step was i dont really know why skipped. I have to add PCI bus device to detect anything my HW specific devices..

  No its just trick from Rloew add PCI bus device for detection of Mainboard devices, used primary after MB change without reinstall.. i would expect that such thing should to do, addition of Plug and Play system device, but its handling by PCI bus device.. So no any additional PS or USB cards for now..

   Yes there was PCI USB universal controller uknow device..
 

  As i wrote in original post it was 16 GB SD card, in SD card to IDE adapter connected to PCI IDE Sil Medley 0680 controller, i also just wanted to test this adapter, its slow but its working.

 All into one FAT32 partition.

Here is how you can get this to install on Z97.  Install 1 stick DDR3 512MB easiest method.  But if you don't have 512MB let me know if you got a single 1GB or 2GB DDR3 stick for the test.

Go into the BIOS and Disable Realtek Onboard Audio and also Disable Onboard Realtek LAN.

Go to CPU Ratio and Force Ratio change to 8 = 800 MHz.  I think this is the lowest MHz for Z97.  If not let me know how low it can go.

Change CPU Cores used from 4 to 1.

Shut down the system.

Remove all the internal cards in the motherboard slots including the PCIe graphics card.

What was the CPU you have installed?  I think it should have the integrated Intel HD Graphics present.

Hook up to HDMI out on the motherboard.  You will then get Video from the monitor using HDMI after you boot the system.  Confirm this is working then go to BIOS save settings just in case and Shut down the system.

Instead of IDE Compact Flash method we will be using USB for this test.

Remove the PCI IDE Sil Medley 0680 controller.

Install SB Audigy 1 PCI Sound Card into the motherboard to the rightmost PCI slot.

(additional content removed)

Edited by 98SE

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ruthan    1

Sorry i dont see a point in such tutorials, i already did it, i have working install (i just tested for fun and show someone in community that its working) by my way, only problem which i have is non working USB.

DDR3 stick, i think 512MB version non exist at all.
CPU - Core i5 QUAD 4xxx no hyperthreading.

  I will maybe, maybe install Windows 98 on other Z97 board, but after present experience with necessity of Rloews patches (RAM / SATA / AHCI / Nvidia 512 Mb fix) and their "ease" of use, Unraid Windows 98 installation much better solution  - its stable, no paid patches need and its faster and much easier to configure and you dont need dedicated HW just one Windows 98 compatible GPU and empty for it and + USB Audio card or other empty PCI slot and Windows 98 compatible sound card.

Edited by ruthan

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98SE    7
1 hour ago, ruthan said:

Sorry i dont see a point in such tutorials, i already did it, i have working install (i just tested for fun and show someone in community that its working) by my way, only problem which i have is non working USB.

DDR3 stick, i think 512MB version non exist at all.
CPU - Core i5 QUAD 44xx no hyperthreading.

  I will maybe, maybe install Windows on other 98SE board, but today after present experience with necessity of Rloews patches and their ease of installation, Unraid Windows 98 installation much better solution..

Are you doing clean install or using the patches for USB?

Did you test SB Audigy 1 for detection in Device Manager and getting audio output confirmed?

I have the DDR3 sticks that's how I did it hardware on first tests.   Later I tested 8GB and should work up to 32GB not using any Windows patching.  Should work to 64GB and 128GB DDR4 in the future.

Edited by 98SE

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ruthan    1

I did clean install and after i tried USB everything included nUSB..

Audigy i tested it with other board, i dont see a point test it now with Z97, i have card in other location. I will maybe test it with X99 board.

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98SE    7
1 hour ago, ruthan said:

I did clean install and after i tried USB everything included nUSB..

Audigy i tested it with other board, i dont see a point test it now with Z97, i have card in other location. I will maybe test it with X99 board.

Try the Z97 SB Audigy 1 PCI first and let me know.  If it doesn't work on Z97 no point in testing X99.  X99 is a different chipset and probably will not have a PCI slot on it.  And I wouldn't try using those PCIe to PCIE to PCI slot adapter.  Might cause more problems or not even work.   Without Audio working there is no point in doing 98SE install.  Then VM becomes best solution but 98SE becomes only good for possibly browsing internet not gaming.  And on top of that browsing in XP+ already works better so ends up being pointless.

Also I think it is unlikely USB ports will work properly on Z97.  I tested Z77 USB PCI and PCIe cards and they won't detect.  X99 will definitely not work since it will be Intel USB 3.0 only.

 

Edited by 98SE

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ruthan    1

If PCI-E GPU is working and my PCI IDE adapter i think that PCI Audio will work too, i will next week test at least PCI GPU and proper PS2 mouse, i add to travel package also Audigy card..

 BTW about my USB instalation adventure you could read here:

USB arent simple solution, just add cheap <5$ PCI USB2 board into machine? I know i would be nice to use native ports, but for Windows 98, i dont too much USB devices in multiboot system - just USB Audio and maybe LAN adapter (but on Z97 is enough slots to use Intel GB/s PCI NIC), in other hand 100 Mb/s USB LAN would be probably good enough for Windows 98 networking..

Edited by ruthan

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98SE    7
2 hours ago, ruthan said:

If PCI-E GPU is working and my PCI IDE adapter i think that PCI Audio will work too, i will next week test at least PCI GPU nad proper PS2 mouse.

 BTW about my USB instalation adventure you could read here:

USB arent simple solution, just add cheap <5$ PCI USB2 board into machine? I know i would be nice to use native ports, but for Windows 98, i dont too much USB devices in multiboot system - just USB Audio and maybe LAN adapter (but on Z97 is enough slots to use Intel GB/s PCI NIC), in other hand 100 Mb/s USB LAN would be probably good enough for Windows 98 networking..

Well if you can get the Z97 to work with 128MB or 256MB 6800 Ultra PCIe or other 6XXX PCIe card and Audigy SB 1 PCI working in Windows 98 with drivers I need to see what you did.  I have some suspicions it will not work even if the Graphics card might be detected in Device Manager but I think as soon as you install the drivers if possible it will crash or not work and then graphics will not work for gaming.  The Lan and USB ports are not that important to gaming if you have a serial mouse and PS/2 for Keyboard you are set without any headaches.  If your PS/2 mouse works in the PS/2 port let me know.  I know USB mouse seems to malfunction.  Most people will browse the internet in XP+ better experience with a simple reboot so not having internet on 98SE is not a deal breaker.

You should skip the IDE to CF adapter it's way too slow.  Just try straight SATA SSD into Intel SATA Port instead.  You might have to change SATA to IDE Compatibility Mode if it is present on your motherboard?  Just use 128GB or smaller SATA SSD is good enough for a simple test.  I have been using the USB with SATA SSD and no problems loading into 98SE and a lot more convenient than hooking internally the drives.  I swap to my other computer and hook it up to the USB port if I need to move files to it.

Edited by 98SE

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ruthan    1

GPU i dont have nothing better that ATI 2 MB mach card for testing, i have 2 times Geforce 7950GT 512 MB but there huge and its means messing with Unofficial drivers and Rloew Nvidia patch (its hard to say that is working, i can play games, but i have lots of other issues with 1 machine, when im trying to use it, maybe patch could be ok, problem could be elsewhere ) .. and other huge used Geforce 6600 GT - big passive + Noctua fan.

   But i can say that in my Unraid sever 512 MB version of Geforce 7950GT running well, without any patches, so it could run within Windows 98 somehow.

   I had Geforce 7300 for such testing, but it died, i will not risk Voodoo 3 transport..

Edited by ruthan

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