[rloew]

wsxedcrfv, on Jul 3 2009, 07:35 PM, said:

I've installed and run win-98se as follows:

- 500 gb WD Sata drive
- drive set to SATA-raid mode in motherboard bios (not IDE compatible mode)
- motherboard was Asrock Dual VSTA (Via 880 chipset)
- win-98 using via driver for hard drive access (not esdi_506)
- I filled the drive with multiple copies of DVD .VOB files to test for 128 gb problem

The issue with large hard drive support (these days) for win-98 is moot (as I see it). Most large drives these days will be SATA, and attaching a SATA drive to a win-98 system will automatically give the user the option of using the SATA driver, which completely side-steps the problem with esdi_506. Anyone using a SATA drive in IDE compatible mode for use with win-98 is just making their life more complicated than it needs to be. Many win-98 sata drivers are available. USE THEM!

I doubt that Windows 9X SATA-Raid drivers are available for many of the newer motherboards.
I also found that in at least one motherboard, using SATA-Raid mode disabled my Adaptec SCSI Card from booting.
I agree that IDE Compatability mode is more complicated. I had to write a Patch and .INF file to make it work properly, but it works on my newest motherboards.
I'm not sure what VIA Driver you are using, but the 2003 Miniport Driver has a bug in it. You wouldn't see it since you are using a WD Drive.

[rloew]

wsxedcrfv, on Jul 4 2009, 09:45 AM, said:

I'd still like to hear your opinion regarding win-98 and the max number of clusters-per-volume it can reliably work with.

I did some preliminary tests.

Windows 98 SCANDISK/DEFRAG is limited to less that ~4,000,000 Clusters (~128GiB for Standard Format)
Windows ME SCANDISK/DEFRAG is limited to less that ~32,000,000 Clusters (~1TiB for Standard Format)
DOS, and Windows 98 appear to handle the design limit of ~256,000,000 Clusters.
DOS SCANDISK can check and repair ~256,000,000 Cluster Drives but will not do a Surface Scan at 182,000,000 Clusters. The probable limit is 128,000,000.
There appears to be a cosmetic flaw in DOS SCANDISK above ~43,000,000 Clusters.

[dencorso]

rloew, on Jul 5 2009, 03:17 AM, said:

I did some preliminary tests.

Windows 98 SCANDISK/DEFRAG is limited to less that ~4,000,000 Clusters (~128GiB for Standard Format)
Windows ME SCANDISK/DEFRAG is limited to less that ~32,000,000 Clusters (~1TiB for Standard Format)
DOS, and Windows 98 appear to handle the design limit of ~256,000,000 Clusters.
DOS SCANDISK can check and repair ~256,000,000 Cluster Drives but will not do a Surface Scan at 182,000,000 Clusters. The probable limit is 128,000,000.
There appears to be a cosmetic flaw in DOS SCANDISK above ~43,000,000 Clusters.

I've done some tests with SCANDKSW (the SCANDISK from Win ME) and reported here that it works OK with 26.4 million clusters (26,389,392 clusters), but throws the infamous "ScanDisk could not continue because your computer does not have enough available memory. If any other programs are running, quit one or more of them, and then try running ScanDisk again." message with 26.6 million clusters (26,588,648 clusters). You are the first, AFAIK, to determine the limits For the DOS SCANDISK. Thanks for the great info! BTW, from the way you wrote it it seems to me that the limit for SCANDSKW and DEFRAG are one and the same, what makes me think it must lie inside DISKMAINT.DLL. Is that right?

[rloew]

I did some additional tests.

DOS SCANDISK will do a surface scan at 122,000,000.
A new cosmetic error appear during the Surface Scan when displaying Cluster numbers above 99,999,999.
The limitation on Surface scans does not appear to be related to available Extended Memory.

dencorso, on Jul 5 2009, 02:53 AM, said:

BTW, from the way you wrote it it seems to me that the limit for SCANDSKW and DEFRAG are one and the same, what makes me think it must lie inside DISKMAINT.DLL. Is that right?

I suspect so. Defrag does a Disk Scan before starting to defrag.

Quote

What do you know about this phenomena of dos or win-98 and the time it takes to perform their first directory listing as a function of the number of clusters on a volume? I think that the computation of free space is involved, but I don't know how or why.

If the Saved Free Space Count is -1, then DOS will recompute the Free Space. This requires reading an entire FAT, so it takes a while.
If the Saved Free Space Count is valid, DOS will use it and complete the Directory listing quickly.
Different Formatters may or may not set the Saved Free Space Count properly.

I don't see much significance in the 6,291,204 value other than it is only 252 less than 00600000 in Hexadecimal.

[dencorso]

rloew, on Jul 4 2009, 02:14 AM, said:

wsxedcrfv, on Jul 3 2009, 07:35 PM, said:

[...]The issue with large hard drive support (these days) for win-98 is moot (as I see it). Most large drives these days will be SATA, and attaching a SATA drive to a win-98 system will automatically give the user the option of using the SATA driver, which completely side-steps the problem with esdi_506. Anyone using a SATA drive in IDE compatible mode for use with win-98 is just making their life more complicated than it needs to be. Many win-98 sata drivers are available. USE THEM!

I doubt that Windows 9X SATA-Raid drivers are available for many of the newer motherboards.
I also found that in at least one motherboard, using SATA-Raid mode disabled my Adaptec SCSI Card from booting.
I agree that IDE Compatability mode is more complicated. I had to write a Patch and .INF file to make it work properly, but it works on my newest motherboards.
I'm not sure what VIA Driver you are using, but the 2003 Miniport Driver has a bug in it. You wouldn't see it since you are using a WD Drive.

What .mpd are you referring to? Is it this one:http://downloads.viaarena.com/drivers/RAID...alATA_V220E.zip? If so, can you describe the bug in more detail, please? Why does it depend on the HDD manufacturer to manifest itself?
And, yes, I do agree that most of today's boards don't have any SATA drivers. I think, BTW, that the chipset in wsxedcrfv's board is the very last VIA chipset that works with the .mpd I've just pointed to. Also BTW, does your SATA patch to esdi_506.pdr work with the LLXX patched .pdrs? It'd be nice if it did. You've mentioned before your SATA.INF alone suffices for the ECS GeForce6100SM-M2. Is it true for all nForce4 boards or just a special case?

This post has been edited by dencorso: 05 July 2009 - 10:45 PM

[rloew]

dencorso, on Jul 6 2009, 12:37 AM, said:

rloew, on Jul 4 2009, 02:14 AM, said:

wsxedcrfv, on Jul 3 2009, 07:35 PM, said:

[...]The issue with large hard drive support (these days) for win-98 is moot (as I see it). Most large drives these days will be SATA, and attaching a SATA drive to a win-98 system will automatically give the user the option of using the SATA driver, which completely side-steps the problem with esdi_506. Anyone using a SATA drive in IDE compatible mode for use with win-98 is just making their life more complicated than it needs to be. Many win-98 sata drivers are available. USE THEM!

I doubt that Windows 9X SATA-Raid drivers are available for many of the newer motherboards.
I also found that in at least one motherboard, using SATA-Raid mode disabled my Adaptec SCSI Card from booting.
I agree that IDE Compatability mode is more complicated. I had to write a Patch and .INF file to make it work properly, but it works on my newest motherboards.
I'm not sure what VIA Driver you are using, but the 2003 Miniport Driver has a bug in it. You wouldn't see it since you are using a WD Drive.

What .mpd are you referring to? Is it this one:http://downloads.viaarena.com/drivers/RAID...alATA_V220E.zip? If so, can you describe the bug in more detail, please? Why does it depend on the HDD manufacturer to manifest itself?

The .MPD file I tested was for IDE. It is named VIA_IDE_MPD_V320B.ZIP on the VIAARENA site.

Western Digital, like most Manufacturers did not correctly follow the ATA 48-Bit LBA Standard.
VIA made the same incorrect assumption when writing the Driver. It works for most brands.
Seagate followed the ATA Standard exactly, leading to an incompatability.
Depending on layout, there is a 1 in 8 chance that Windows will specify the last Sector in the 28-Bit LBA range when crossing the boundary.
This access will fail.

I became aware of this problem in 2004 and corrected the Code in Version 2.1 of my High Capacity Disk Patch.
It is documented in the User's Manual for the Full Version of the High Capacity Disk Patch.
I also Patched the VIA Miniport Driver to eliminate this Problem.

Quote

And, yes, I do agree that most of today's boards don't have any SATA drivers. I think, BTW, that the chipset in wsxedcrfv's board is the very last VIA chipset that works with the .mpd I've just pointed to. Also BTW, does your SATA patch to esdi_506.pdr work with the LLXX patched .pdrs? It'd be nice if it did. You've mentioned before your SATA.INF alone suffices for the ECS GeForce6100SM-M2. Is it true for all nForce4 boards or just a special case?

I believe my SATA Patch will work with the LLXX Patch, but I haven't tested it.
I only have one nForce4 motherboard so I can't say for sure. My other two Motherboards with integrated SATA needed the Patch.
Using a different version of my SATA.INF with my SATA Patch worked with the JMicron SATA Cards which have no Windows 9x Drivers.

This post has been edited by rloew: 06 July 2009 - 12:45 AM

[adamzan7]

Just to let everyone know the MSI PC54G2 wireless card works perfectly with 98SE. Though the software kinda sucks.

[JustinStacey.x]

I don't think I mentioned this before but if anyone is looking for relatively recent laptops that support Windows 98 the Medion MIM 2080 does, and has working drivers for everything. Finding them is difficult and obviously the driver disks don't always have 98 compatible drivers. But, it is possible and I have done it on that machine. it also runs Windows 2000 very nicely. Since it has no internal CD drive, the setup files have to first be copied to the hard drive.

[Spitfire]

My ME CD does not have all the Matrox video drivers with it. I had to install what is close to it like the Matrox GA Milinium to even have the better quality. My video card is the Matrox Power Graphics Accelerator 200 series. I tried the Matrox site to download what I think is the right installation of the driver and said I do not have a Matrox card or that it is not the right one. I need help with both the sound card and my video card issues because they both were installed by ME as generic.

[Usher]

galahs, on Nov 7 2007, 07:28 AM, said:

The following Chipsets have Windows 9x Support:

Intel Chipsets:
865PE --- Pentium 4
865G --- Pentium 4
8xx

There is no Intel Application Accelerator for 875P, 865G/P/PE, 852/855 GM/GME, 855MP, 848P chipsets (ICH5 southbridge) so there is no full support for Windows 9x for these chipsets. See Intel Application Accelerator RAID Edition, Large drive support for ICH5R, but not for Win-98? thread.
Tested with ICH5/848P on AOpen AX4SPB-UN motherboard, Win98SE started from PATA 40 GB drive:
* PATA drives can work with generic ESDI_505.PDR drivers.
* Single SATA drive is detected but not recognized (error in Device Manager), even with ESDI_506.PDR 4.10.2225 patched for 48bit LBA.
* Two SATA drives cause system hang when ESDI_506.PDR driver is detecting drives.

Andrzej P. Wozniak

[Usher]

galahs, on Nov 7 2007, 07:29 AM, said:

Supported Sound Cards

Realtek
*All AC'97 Audio Codecs have drivers for all 9x systems (but not high definition chips)*

The drivers may NOT work, if Realtek AC97 codecs are coupled with not fully supported ICH5 Intel southbridge (there is no Intel Application Accelerator for that bridge). Older drivers install and start Sound Manager but not detect audio devices, newest drivers install and do nothing more.
Tested on AOpen AX4SPB-UN motherboard with 848P chipset, ICH5 southbridge, Realtek ALC655 AC97 codec.

Andrzej P. Wozniak

[halohalo]

Usher, on Feb 1 2010, 12:55 PM, said:

galahs, on Nov 7 2007, 07:28 AM, said:

The following Chipsets have Windows 9x Support:

Intel Chipsets:
865PE --- Pentium 4
865G --- Pentium 4
8xx

There is no Intel Application Accelerator for 875P, 865G/P/PE, 852/855 GM/GME, 855MP, 848P chipsets (ICH5 southbridge) so there is no full support for Windows 9x for these chipsets. See Intel Application Accelerator RAID Edition, Large drive support for ICH5R, but not for Win-98? thread.
Tested with ICH5/848P on AOpen AX4SPB-UN motherboard, Win98SE started from PATA 40 GB drive:
* PATA drives can work with generic ESDI_505.PDR drivers.
* Single SATA drive is detected but not recognized (error in Device Manager), even with ESDI_506.PDR 4.10.2225 patched for 48bit LBA.
* Two SATA drives cause system hang when ESDI_506.PDR driver is detecting drives.

Andrzej P. Wozniak

IAA will forcingly disable the DMA mode on some old CD-ROM drives, like TEAC CD524E. And IAA also caused problem when I installed MGS2, a DVD-9 based PC game. Therefore I don't think IAA is necessary when I use Win98se.

I failed to format single SATA drive on GA-8I865PE775-G-RH(4.9), so I used the SATA <-> IDE adapter and formatted the SATA drive at IDE port. Then I plugged the SATA drive back to SATA port, and it has no problem with patched ESDI_506.PDR.

But I only plugged one SATA drive and one IDE DVD-ROM drive. And pluging two SATA drives means you can't use IDE port.

This post has been edited by halohalo: 01 February 2010 - 01:37 PM

[Usher]

halohalo, on Feb 1 2010, 08:04 PM, said:

IAA will forcingly disable the DMA mode on some old CD-ROM drives, like TEAC CD524E.

There are many more drives with bugged firmware that are not properly recognized, and only for some of them there are patched drive firmware, motherboard BIOSes or chipset drivers. In most cases you must use manual settings in BIOS Setup.

halohalo, on Feb 1 2010, 08:04 PM, said:

And IAA also caused problem when I installed MGS2, a DVD-9 based PC game.

This seems to be incompatible game protection. I know it's too late to request fix from the game developers, but have you ever searched for any patches for that game or for protection drivers only?

halohalo, on Feb 1 2010, 08:04 PM, said:

I failed to format single SATA drive on GA-8I865PE775-G-RH(4.9), so I used the SATA <-> IDE adapter and formatted the SATA drive at IDE port. Then I plugged the SATA drive back to SATA port, and it has no problem with patched ESDI_506.PDR.
But I only plugged one SATA drive and one IDE DVD-ROM drive. And pluging two SATA drives means you can't use IDE port.

That's why I wrote "there is no full support for Windows 9x". Windows 2000 work OK with 6 drives (2 SATA HDD, 3 PATA HDD, PATA DVD+-RW) and AC97 without IAA. Of course I can try with single SATA HDD, single PATA HDD and DVD, but partial support is not for me. I need to work with more drives, and for safety/portability reasons I want to have working copy of Win98SE system on PATA drive less then 64 GiB.

--
Andrzej P. Wozniak

This post has been edited by Usher: 03 February 2010 - 06:07 AM

[halohalo]

Original MS driver has better compatibility than IAA. And I solved the optical drive related problems by uninstalling IAA.

[rloew]

Usher, on Feb 3 2010, 07:06 AM, said:

That's why I wrote "there is no full support for Windows 9x". Windows 2000 work OK with 6 drives (2 SATA HDD, 3 PATA HDD, PATA DVD+-RW) and AC97 without IAA. Of course I can try with single SATA HDD, single PATA HDD and DVD, but partial support is not for me. I need to work with more drives, and for safety/portability reasons I want to have working copy of Win98SE system on PATA drive less then 64 GiB.

--
Andrzej P. Wozniak

I wrote a Patch to support SATA Drives on Windows 9X. It uses the original Microsoft Driver so it will not work with IAA.

[LoneCrusader]

galahs, on 07 November 2007 - 12:27 AM, said:

Win9x DOES NOT support HyperThreading (please disable in the BIOS)
Windows 95 has timing problems with CPU speeds higher than 350 Mhz.
Windows 98 FE (and consequently Win95) cannot exceed CPU speeds higher than 2.2 Ghz

Disabling HyperThreading in the BIOS is not necessary.

Windows 95 Processor Limit has now been broken. and Windows 98 FE had a HotFix issued by Microsoft for this.

Windows 95 512MB RAM limit is now broken by RLoew's Patch v7.0.


On another note, can anyone tell me the last ATI TV Tuner card produced that was compatible with Windows 98 and/or can be made to work in 98?

This post has been edited by LoneCrusader: 21 March 2010 - 05:02 PM

[Multibooter]

LoneCrusader, on 21 March 2010 - 05:01 PM, said:

can anyone tell me the last ATI TV Tuner card produced that was compatible with Windows 98 and/or can be made to work in 98?

I had an ATI TV Wonder Pro Tuner (Philips 1236 MK3) running so-so on my Win98 dual-core desktop, but discarded it, the Sabrent Philips 713x PCI TV Tuner Card card was better. I only tested the ATI TV Wonder card for a short time, it came with a desktop I had bought at ebay. The Sabrent card I liked and used in the US, connected to a cable TV outlet, for maybe 6 months. I have since then set up my Win98 dual core desktop again and have not gotten around to re-install the Sabrent card, I don't watch much TV.

Getting the Sabrent card to work properly was tricky, the Win98 software on the CD didn't work properly under Win98, the honestech TVR 2.5 video software, obtained elsewhere, worked eventually Ok under Win98, I had to fiddle around for some time with the remote control driver and the FM tuner. If I remember right the Sabrent TV card had to be connected with a cable to the bfg 7800 GS OC video card and a whole bunch of Win98 drivers had to be installed. It was a time-consuming project. honestech TVR v2.5, for example, worked under Win98 with the ATI TV Wonder card also, but when recording TV, no sound was recorded with the ATI card. Basically you have to have the Win98 drivers for the TV card, the remote control and the TV tuner plus Win98 video display and recording software which works with these drivers and the hardware, a lot of fiddling.

I originally got the Sabrent card to convert video tapes PAL <==> NTSC, but never got around doing it.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 22 March 2010 - 12:38 PM