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Slipstreaming NT4 SP6a


fdv

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Thought I'd throw in an update.

I gotta revise this process I wrote about a little... some things I missed earlier, like for example, a hotfix that contains a BROWSER.DLL should not overwrite the existing BROWSER.DLL. The actual update to the Computer Browser Service, BROWSER, is called "BROWSER2.DLL." Yeah, it's little stuff like that that makes no sense that you just have to know otherwise NT will have problems. I also was seeing new files that I couldn't figure out where to put... so I just added a new directory for them in TXTSETUP and LAYOUT:

27 = system32\netmon\parsers ; new directory for post SP6a NT Server files

The additions I made to TXTSETUP and LAYOUT were:

atalk.dll    = 1,,,,,,,27,0,0 ; system32\netmon\parsers from q299444
bone.dll = 1,,,,,,,27,0,0 ; system32\netmon\parsers from q299444
ipx.dll = 1,,,,,,,27,0,0 ; system32\netmon\parsers from q299444
ncp.dll = 1,,,,,,,27,0,0 ; system32\netmon\parsers from q299444
netbios.dll = 1,,,,,,,27,0,0 ; system32\netmon\parsers from q299444
ppp.dll = 1,,,,,,,27,0,0 ; system32\netmon\parsers from q299444
smb.dll = 1,,,,,,,27,0,0 ; system32\netmon\parsers from q299444
SNMP.dll = 1,,,,,,,27,0,0 ; system32\netmon\parsers from q299444
tcpip.dll = 1,,,,,,,27,0,0 ; system32\netmon\parsers from q299444
Trail.dll = 1,,,,,,,27,0,0 ; system32\netmon\parsers from q299444
VINES.dll = 1,,,,,,,27,0,0 ; system32\netmon\parsers from q299444
browr.dll = 1,,,,,,,27,0,0,browser.dll ; system32\netmon\parsers from q299444

I have no idea what turns this service on, or if a DLL calls it, or some new service. No real clue, but all the files are there. Oh by the way I will make a fileset available to assist everyone on this project so you don't have to edit your TXTSETUP and LAYOUT files too badly. Random note: there is a file in Server called NT40.PDF that isn't really a Portable Document File. It's something else, and you should open it and look inside. Also, note files in the Service Pack that say LanManWorkstation versus LanManServer, etc.

More notes as they come to mind... forget trying to get "ask-for-them" hotfixes from Microsoft now. They are gone, I confirmed this with Microsoft. Maybe there are some left but the guy I talked to on the phone told me that a few years after NT4 left extended support, they don't have these hotfixes available anymore. Sure, maybe they have them on a gold CD in a locked case in a cave below Microsoft, but there's no way to get them now.

There are some hotfixes you don't actually want!! I made a beta of my NT4 SP7 for three, uh, "prominent users" here that had the VERY latest publicly available fixes that I know of... and ya know what? A bunch of software that worked with just SP6a, didn't work with the files from these certain hotfixes! These were all Type 2's, so if you do this process and you find a Type 2 that replaces an existing file in i386, don't use it! So, I went back and made fixes. BTW to those three guys, I will update you soon.

The whole mess that started this really as most people have read are the registry edits that SP6a adds. The Post SP6a hotfixes also add some, which I have taken care of. But I am overhauling the SP6a registry work, because a lot of it is digital certificate stuff for Internet Explorer that's obsolete. Can anyone confirm that NT's 128 bit-ness (aka "the strong encryption files") only apply to IE and nothing else? It's what I seem to be discovering, but I want to make sure.

I was playing with Win98, the 98lite'd version, earlier in the week. Wow, what a royal, royal pain in the a** using 98 is... I had forgotten that even with IE gone and the Win95 shell in place, it's still a disk drive hog. I did a total slipstream of 98 too, BTW, by extracting and editing files. I remember even on old hardware, I had to copy all of the install files from CD to a partition on C:\ because on first reboot, Win98 fails to recognize the CD Rom drive because it didn't load real-mode drivers, and it hasn't installed the VXD yet...

Issues like these that make me think that a suggestion of TommyP's, to make NT4 a slimmed down OS, might be a good idea in terms of running an old OS because IMO it's probably better than 98. I mean, sure, there is no USB support, and I have yet to figure out how to add it... things like that... and of course Direct X on NT only goes up to 5. If anyone wants to figure out how to test the DX7 files from Windows 2000 on NT4, please be my guest! It's beyond what I feel like doing.

By the way, Axcel216's list at http://www.mdgx.com/wnt4.htm, linked above, is a really good resource. It's what I used way back to get the fixes I need, and I recommend it highly.

More later, I gotta get back to testing.

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I was playing with Win98, the 98lite'd version, earlier in the week. Wow, what a royal, royal pain in the a** using 98 is... I had forgotten that even with IE gone and the Win95 shell in place, it's still a disk drive hog. I did a total slipstream of 98 too, BTW, by extracting and editing files. I remember even on old hardware, I had to copy all of the install files from CD to a partition on C:\ because on first reboot, Win98 fails to recognize the CD Rom drive because it didn't load real-mode drivers, and it hasn't installed the VXD yet...

Issues like these that make me think that a suggestion of TommyP's, to make NT4 a slimmed down OS, might be a good idea in terms of running an old OS because IMO it's probably better than 98. I mean, sure, there is no USB support, and I have yet to figure out how to add it... things like that... and of course Direct X on NT only goes up to 5. If anyone wants to figure out how to test the DX7 files from Windows 2000 on NT4, please be my guest! It's beyond what I feel like doing.

i concur absolutely. compared to NT4, 98 is worth crap when it comes to stability or performance, even an un-slimmed down NT4. I say this cuz like I said earlier, I used to have NT4WKS as my main OS when 98 was all the rage and everybody was raving about how *cough* awesome 98 was :rolleyes: .

I used to absolutely love NT4WKS, had mine fully tweaked out, wouldn't even have switched from NT4 to 98 if somebody had put a gun to my head :whistle: .

I even found a third party utility to have it power off when it was shut down and once NT4 was properly/carefully/lovingly configured, it didn't crash, period!

Edited by johndoe74
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More notes as they come to mind... forget trying to get "ask-for-them" hotfixes from Microsoft now. They are gone, I confirmed this with Microsoft. Maybe there are some left but the guy I talked to on the phone told me that a few years after NT4 left extended support, they don't have these hotfixes available anymore. Sure, maybe they have them on a gold CD in a locked case in a cave below Microsoft, but there's no way to get them now.

not true, fdv! I've just requested certain NT4 hotfixes from MS by email via a MS Hotfix Request Web Submission Form (instead of phone) and I have gotten them over the weekend. Here are the hotfixes I've obtained:

Q280334 explorer.exe

Q307866 Srpfixup.exe < run this file after installing NT4 Q299444 SRP pack

Q319560 msimain.sdb for Windows Installer 2.0 < I have both Server and Workstation editions of this hotfix

Q325986 tcpip.sys

Q326643 Ntfs.sys

Q872952 autochk.exe, chkdsk.exe, fmifs.dll, untfs2.dll

Contact me either by email or send me a PM (personal message) if you need any of these NT4 hotfixes.

I have about 50 more to go but many of them are still available. Forget the phone method of asking MS for NT4 hotfixes, use the email method by using the MS Hotfix Request Form. In the "Product and version affected" section, type in Windows NT 4.0 SP6a and the KB hotfix article number (ex. KB307866), select 32bit Operating System (x86) in the Platform section, select the language(s) you want for the hotfix and put in your email address. Then click the Submit Request button and wait for several hours for MS to respond by email. Most of the time, I get the NT4 hotfixes on the first try.

Read Mike's blog here about the MS Hotfix Request Web Submission Form:

http://theessentialexchange.com/blogs/mich...ssion-form.aspx

If any of you are having trouble getting any existing post-SP6a hotfixes for Windows NT4 by email method, leave it to me. I can take care of this kind of hard work.

Edited by erpdude8
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I've added the makecabbed TCMAPP.EX_ as an attachment.

Hopefully will save Mr. Dunn some bandwidth.

Also--as you may be aware, the entire IE4 Shell update is located in the ie5 download, in IE4SHLNT.CAB. It's installed via ie4shell.inf, from that cab.

tcmapp.zip

Edited by nateklomp
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Thanks to all participating.

I thought that I would add some NT4 trivia, randomly, in no particular order. The Magnificent Seven can skip this they already know it.

I tried at TommyP's request to use HFSLIP to see what happens. Many extraction errors occur.

If NT installs without EXPLORER.EXE, it still works and shows a desktop, but you cannot move any of the objects.

Anything (anything AT ALL) in the SYSTEM directory of an NT-based OS is USELESS. It's all a holdover from Windows NT 3.51! Windows NT4, Windows 2000, Windows XP, it doesn't matter, if it's in C:\WINNT\SYSTEM, it can be deleted. (Does Nuhi know this?)

In TXTSETUP.SIF, again in any NT-based OS, all of the files under the x86 files can be added to main the main copy files section (you have to arrange commas) if you wanted to. All files under the other architectures like alpha, ppc, or ia64 can be deleted.

To repeat myself in case anyone missed it, if you do a global replace in both TXTSETUP.SIF and LAYOUT.INF of ",_x," to ",," (deleting the _x between the commas -- don't just delete the _x in the whole doc!) then no files will be checked for sizes specified in LAYOUT and no errors will result (yes, LAYOUT really can be modified).

I used almost no Type 2 hotfixes. They seem to create compatibility issues with a lot of software.

Remember that trick of editing SETUPP.INI in Windows 2000? Guess what?

FAT32: NT cannot install onto it, but it CAN boot from it. Considering you'd have to format the drive after installing onto FAT16, this is clearly more trouble than it's worth unless you need to dual boot, and really, who does? It's 2008. I use the Winternals driver, but there are other drivers at http://ashedel.chat.ru/fat32/

Alter not only makes a SATA driver for NT, he makes a better USB stack than Woodhead.

A VMWare Virtual PC video driver is available in the VMWare Tools, so you can work at a higher resolution. Just wait until NT 4 is running and install the VMware tools. It shows up as a CD to NT. Explore the CD and you will find a folder with the NT Video driver in it. If you're really clever, you can copy this and integrate it into NT so it's always available to you.

Keeping small? Running on old hardware? NT "just sitting there" will take about 24 megs of RAM. The lowest Windows 2000 amount of RAM used I have seen was 42 megs, IIRC. Bearwindows told me that he ran a stripped down version in 6mb. I still have to ask him how he did that.

Speaking of low memory overhead, the world's smallest browser is OffByOne. Don't forget that NT generally needs some way to browse the 'net to download stuff.

The Microsoft Management Console (MMC) is available for Windows NT. I integrate it, because here is a defragger called O&O Defrag Free that requires the MMC. But is the MMC used for anything else? Anyone know?

The RegOnceEx key is NOT compatible with NT 4 unless you have installed "Internet Explorer with Desktop

Update." Microsoft says you have to install IE4 to get this as it is not available in any other version of IE. As usual, they are lying. You have to start the install and go to the TEMP directory and modify the iesetup.cif file (see here)

The real details of RegOnce stuff is not documented, but TommyP has a wealth of knowledge developed during his creating HFSLIP. He's explained how DLL registration works but the rules are different for NT 4. At TommyP's mention I looked at Gosh's site but this didn't help as it implied you only need one DLL, iernonce.dll and a few registry keys in place for it to work. When IE Desktop Update is installed, RunOnceEx works. When JUST iernonce.dll is put into system32 and the Active Desktop key is added per Gosh's suggestion, it doesn't. That leaves me with having to reverse engineer what's going on in order to add RunOnceEx functionality without having to destroy the OS (considering also the IE4SHLNT.CAB, thanks Nate).

Lastly, I am thinking of the Gurgelmeyer Unofficial Service Pack 5 and the Unofficial Windows 98 Service Pack here... does anyone know the legality of those projects? I could easily create a SP7 for NT but how would I distribute it without problems?

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In NT4 the best way to do setup stuff like this is not RunOnceEx (which is part of OE Update Service), but RunOnce (which is a Winlogon.exe-initiated script). How I've seen it used: insert a Run (every time Winlogon.exe starts) or RunOnce (only at next Winlogon.exe instance) Key in the reg, then it's deleted it after running. RunOnceEx only works in other versions because they've got OE/IE integrated. Windows 4.0 versions don't have OE integrated. See MSDN Article for once source; I actually first saw this used in a script on a Scandinavian webpage (Swedish? Can't find it right now)when researching an automated install of NT4.

Supposedly the MMC was created to allow "developers and users" to "easily create" plugins to do system tasks. Yes, I've tried both the Win2K and XP mmc snapins, none of them work properly in NT4. *sheds a tear for lack of device manager MMC snapin* :'(

Why IE55SP2 and not IE60SP1 for NT4? Does it also work for slipstreaming? IE6 support in NT4 is one of its major pluses for me, I need it to work.

If it could be slipstreamed...( I know, this is FDV I'm talking to, but still) this would be the most awesome project EVER for NT4.

IIRC (check it out in Hotstream posts), Gurgelmeyer consulted with a lawyer, or MS rep, or both, before release.

BTW, do you know where I can find the other files listed in #9 & 11? I'm using all the files found on MDGx's NT4 page, and I've got only a small portion of those you've listed.

Normally I'd look first on erpman/erpdude's page, but it's down ATM.

Edited by nateklomp
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I saw asiekierka's thread but if you look at the downloads... it's a huge kludge.

What many miss is that a number of hotfixes:

1. replace files in SP6a because they have the same name, but they should NOT replace those files, and

2. there are new files in hotfixes, and they are easy to put into the correct directory if you add a new file location in TXTSETUP, and

3. there is garbage in the OS that is obsolete and needs to be taken out, whether DLLs or registry entries.

Ultimately what I would create is something with compressed files that you just drag and drop into your i386 dirtectory, with my own Registry INF files that create what's needed and omit what's obsolete.

Nateklomp, did you examine my IEXPLORE.INF? (Are you one of the ones I emailed?) I am making use of Run, RunOnce, and RunOnceEx which is actually dependent on iernonce.dll, and the AD-enabled shell32.dll and explorer.exe. It appears Run is the best bet to make the MMC run. Which I gather is not necessary, since it's only for a defragger I use anyway (anyone know of a free defragger for NT4?) And the AD-enabled shell32 creates compatability problems with the before-and-after comparison software Tomcat76 suggested, as well as a few other programs I don't recall.

IE6, yes, it can be integrated. But since TommyP is the Black Belt of IE6 integration I'll leave it to him. I can throw the DLLs in place and add some reg entries, but as he explained to me, it's not so simple -- a LOT of things have to take place at JUST the exact right time for IE to actually work. So, I'll leave that to him. He is currently evaluating certain possibilities in this area as he has the same curiosity the rest of us do on this project -- that is, we probably won't actually run the OS but it's an intellectual challenge :sneaky:

As for files in #9, that's a Post SP6a Rollup, #11 is just what I had left over from like 25 hotfixes. I will list them in a future post (I am not at home right now to pipe the dir contrents to a text file).

I think I have Gurglemeyer's real email address from some years ago, so I will try emailing him to ask about providing one big SP for NT and the issues surrounding that. Given what I know now, that would probably be pretty easy to do. Right now, Bearwindows does make a slipstreamer, but only for SP6a, not post hotfixes. The possibility of an HFSLIP for NT4 has been discussed (obviously, if I'm posting in this forum) but so far no decision has been made since the options of feasibility and whether or not it's worth it (as opposed to a big file that you drag and drop the contents into i386) have not been decided.

In completely other news, I am working on an FDV fileset for Windows 2000 Server. I use a Core II Duo at work with Win2000, and it sees two processors, and it runs FAST. Windows 2000 would see four processors in a Quad Core, but only the Server version can see more than two processors... and if I'm gonna continue to use Windows, it sure ain't gonna be XP or Vista (all the compatibility problems of ReactOS, and four hundred times the size!!). Oh yeah, and with a contributor's help, I perfected the whole "use the Mozilla ActiveX control instead of IE" thing, which I will unveil shortly.

BTW anyone used ReactOS recently? I tried .36 the other day. Dodgy, but impressive considering what they're doing without any help from Microsoft.

Hey, anyone wanna collaborate on a fully patched OS/2?? (KIDDING!)

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Didn't know other people here were in this as well. I'm also working on a script which would eventually do most of what HFSLIP does, but I'm taking it one step at a time.

There are a couple of things I wonder about concerning SP6a...

The Intel sections... INTLFXSR.SYS is a new binary and it comes with a few extra registry settings but they obviously shouldn't be processed on non-Intel systems. So I'll have to find out which installation file covers the Intel files and somehow edit that without abandoning support for localized distros. All localized installation files in NT4 sources I've seen are in ANSI, but that's still no guarantee for things to work out (see the time zone hotfix issues).

What is "Softex"? I'm deleting the .SOFTEX files right now but I need to know if that's OK.

The Font sections could be problematic on localized distros because I don't know how to differentiate between them (I think I mentioned this before).

What to do with the IIS 4.2 files? SP6a contains updates for IIS 4.0 (IIS sections in INF), but also upgrade files for IIS 4.2 (IIS4 sections in INF). Was IIS 4.2 ever released as a standalone package? I can't think of any other reason to explain this.

Edited by Tomcat76
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INTLFIXSR should be left out. It's a floating point error fix for Pentium I's (not a typo -- Pentium One). When I ran with it installed, it slowed the OS down and eventually caused a crash.

softex are BIOS files for specific hardware. Ditch them.

IIS 4.2 as far as I saw was never released standalone. It might have installed with some other product you wouldn't expect, like maybe a Terminal Server update or something. Since IIS 4.x was riddled with problems, I'd leave it out.

Edited by fdv
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Thanks -- that makes it pretty easy. I'll just update the IIS 4.0 files then and ditch the IIS 4.2 binaries (which are quite a few).

BTW... If you're intending to make an SP7, I think that you should check that it works on a Gold source too. You use an official SP3 build as a base which may contain more files.

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