• Announcements

    • xper

      MSFN Sponsorship and AdBlockers!   07/10/2016

      Dear members, MSFN is made available via subscriptions, donations and advertising revenue. The use of ad-blocking software hurts the site. Please disable ad-blocking software or set an exception for MSFN. Alternatively, become a site sponsor and ads will be disabled automatically and by subscribing you get other sponsor benefits.
EGOvoruhk

Help: I need to Get 2GB installed RAM working in Win98SE

136 posts in this topic

Igor Leyko's text has been fully translated now, but the text is rather long.

For some reason, I can't find the 'attach file' option in my settings here.

I believe I had it some time ago, maybe last year ...

Should I go back to my original (part 2) post, and try to append this portion? (at the risk of making it the longest post on this forum,) or post it separately (part 1) and have people read it backwards?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GreyPhound:

Awesome! You rock, you really do! :thumbup

As for your questions:

1) For some reason I don't understand, the 'attach file' option has been disabled in the "Windows 95/98/98SE/ME" main forum, for as long as I can remember, although it is enabled in the "Unofficial Win98 Se Service Pack" subforum...

2) IMHO, it'll be much better if you can add part 1 to your original post, regardless of the final size of the post. After all, if you do that, every one who reads your translation, from now on, will be able to read it in order.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Done.

see Post #23:

Windows 9x and lots of memory: Dotting the i's

Igor Leyko

Edited by GreyPhound
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonderful job translating the article, things are nicely explained in it. However, the original question still stands, and I seem to have the same problem, namely:

- I have Win98SE (no patches as far as I know, other than the one for large disk access) on an EPOX EP-8KRAI with an Athlon XP, with 2GB RAM in two sticks (DDR400, PC3200). Used to have 512MB, without problems up to the upgrade;

- After the customary MaxPhysPage and MaxFileCache restriction to 40000 (1GB) and 524288, windows boots nicely, no immediate apparent problems - but MS-DOS produces the "not enough memory error", no matter what I do.

- I've tried EVERYHING, nothing makes DOS work.

- AGP aperture is 64MB; tried to reduce to 32MB: no luck

- VCache down to 32768 changes nothing, below that windows starts to refuse to boot (not enough memory). The setting is applied correctly, verifiable with System Monitor.

- PhysPage as 60000 (1.5GB) does not boot at all; as 3C000, 30000 or even 20000 (back to 512MB!!!) does not help. windows boots, DOS does not work. The setting is applied correctly, verifiable on every about page and with System Monitor.

...now what? :wacko: I'd rather not physically remove RAM, because I'm dual booting with XP which is fine thank you and makes good use of it. Any ideas, please...?

- Max

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
see Post #23:

Windows 9x and lots of memory: Dotting the i's

Igor Leyko

Awesome, GreyPhound! :thumbup Thanks so much! :thumbup

=======

@Max Monroe:

Pleases try this extreme configuration:

1) in Config.SYS:

(i) NO EMM386.EXE

(ii) NO XMSDSK.EXE

(iii) HIMEM.SYS /NUMHANDLES=96 /TESTMEM:ON /V

2) NO Autoexec.bat at all

3) in System.ini

(i) under [386Enh], MaxPhysPage=38000

(ii) under [VCache],

MinFileCache=0

MaxFileCache=29696 ; 29M

ChunkSize=512

>>> Note that MaxFileCache=29696 really, this is not a typo. <<<

4) AGP aperture 64MB

...and let me know what happens. Good luck!

Edited by dencorso
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you mean "DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS /NUMHANDLES=96 /TESTMEM:ON /V" ? :) Well, it didn't work, anyway. Win98 didn't boot, with "no memory". Had to return to 40000 / 65536. Aaaaaanyway, thanks for trying, and here's the RAM dump, perhaps it helps.... :unsure:

00000000-0009FFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

000A0000-000AFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

000B0000-000BFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

000C0000-000CCFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

000CD000-000CFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

000F0000-000F7FFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

000F8000-000FBFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

000FC000-000FFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

00100000-7FFEFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

7FFF0000-7FFFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

C0000000-CFFFFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

C0000000-DFFFFFFF : VIA CPU to AGP Controller

D0000000-DFFFFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES - Secondary (Omega 2.6.37)

E0000000-E3FFFFFF : VIA Standard Host Bridge

E4000000-E43FFFFF : Intel® 536EP Modem

E4400000-E441FFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

E4400000-E44FFFFF : VIA CPU to AGP Controller

E4420000-E442FFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

E4430000-E443FFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES - Secondary (Omega 2.6.37)

E4500000-E45007FF : PCI OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller

E4501000-E45010FF : VIA PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller

E4502000-E45020FF : VIA Rhine II Fast Ethernet Adapter

FEC00000-FECFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

FEE00000-FEEFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

FFF80000-FFFEFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

FFFF0000-FFFFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[...]

C0000000-CFFFFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

C0000000-DFFFFFFF : VIA CPU to AGP Controller

D0000000-DFFFFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES - Secondary (Omega 2.6.37)

1) This looks as a memory conflict to me. Isn't there any typo?

E0000000-E3FFFFFF : VIA Standard Host Bridge

E4000000-E43FFFFF : Intel® 536EP Modem

E4400000-E441FFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37))

E4400000-E44FFFFF : VIA CPU to AGP Controller

E4420000-E442FFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

E4430000-E443FFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES - Secondary (Omega 2.6.37)

2) Same here. Isn't there any typo?

E4500000-E45007FF : PCI OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller

E4501000-E45010FF : VIA PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller

E4502000-E45020FF : VIA Rhine II Fast Ethernet Adapter

FEC00000-FECFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

FEE00000-FEEFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

FFF80000-FFFEFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

FFFF0000-FFFFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

Now, I see the following free memory spaces:

E4440000-E44FFFFF = C0000

E4500800-E4500FFF = 00800

E4501100-E4501FFF = 00F00

E4502100-FEBFFFFF = 1A6FDF00

FED00000-FEDFFFFF = 100000

FEF00000-FFF7FFFF = 1080000

Which totals to 1B93FE00 => 451839 kB on doing Igor Leyko's calculation.

Subtracting a VCache of 65536 KB, the result is 386303 kB... But note that this is fragmented real memory.

And it seems not to be enough for the Ring 0 VM (all Windows VxDs) and additional DOS Boxes (DOS VMs).

I'd do a backup first and then...

I'd try to remove ACPI (and APM) from Win 98, to liberate some more memory on the 4th GB...

I've posted a how-to here (link) some time ago, for other reasons, but it might solve your problem.

Then again, this is just a wild guess...

Anyway, good luck! And please do keep me posted on it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi again, GreyPhound!

I just finished reading it and found a small typo, that needs correction:

As a rule, AGP devices use addresses starting from E0000000, that is 3,5 Gb. Disk cache at that can use a half gigabyte. This is exactly what determines a recommendation to limit cache to the value of 524288 Kb (512 Mb).

This notwithstanding, you did a fantastic job! Thanks again! :thumbup

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well I have tried everything that was possible (given my knowledge of the problem) and I have not been able to make XMSDSK work without problems.

[...]

-----------------------------------

XMSDSK Failure

-------------------------------------

Whenever XMSDSK succesfully creates a ram drive then my dos windows become unavailable for the "out of memory error"

MOREOVER XMSDSK does not work properly: when I start the scandisk, to check the sectors into the ramdrive Z, the write attempt fails after a while.

A more simple copy write attempts fails too.

The failure happens not at a specific point.

what happens is that I got a blue screen with not recoverable error sayng things like:

"An exception 0E has occurred at 0028:C0004D6D in VxD Vmm(01) + 00003D6D. This was called from 0028:C19359C4 in Vxd Rmm(01) + 00000254"

I have tried many different settings for XMSDSK.

[...]

Hi, vick1111! :hello:

Please try:

c:\ramdisk\xmsdsk.exe 262272 Z: /c1 /y

**yes, without the "/t", despite all you can read about it: there are reports this may solve your problem.**

It's said it works for 2GB or more RAM. I never tried it, because I've not encountered such a problem, probably because I've got only 1.5GB, I guess. Good luck!

Edited by dencorso
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi again, GreyPhound!

I just finished reading it and found a small typo, that needs correction:

As a rule, AGP devices use addresses starting from E0000000, that is 3,5 Gb. Disk cache at that can use a half gigabyte. This is exactly what determines a recommendation to limit cache to the value of 524288 Kb (512 Mb).

Corrected.

Sorry for that one, it must have been a browser encoding thing, as that misrepresented value is correct in my original text file.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[...]

C0000000-CFFFFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

C0000000-DFFFFFFF : VIA CPU to AGP Controller

D0000000-DFFFFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES - Secondary (Omega 2.6.37)

1) This looks as a memory conflict to me. Isn't there any typo?

Nope, that's copy-pasted as it came. Anyway, both are kinda "video card" stuff, so I assume it might not be entirely wrong to overlap / be dual allocated / accessed. Actually, I do kinda wonder WHAT THE HECK does the video adapter with THAT kind of memory allocated to it... It's a 128MB ATI Radeon 9600, for Pete's sake...

I'd try to remove ACPI (and APM) from Win 98, to liberate some more memory on the 4th GB...

I've posted a how-to here (link) some time ago, for other reasons, but it might solve your problem.

Then again, this is just a wild guess...

Anyway, good luck! And please do keep me posted on it.

Thanks, but as one of the posters in the other thread noted, I'm not in a hurry to get rid of ACPI (if I understand correctly, the 3 to 4 GB area really matters, and ACPI seems to hold a lousy 20MB there), especially since disabling it in the BIOS would shoot it under my other OS (XP) too, I suppose.

As much as I hate that, I might just finally dump '98 alltogether, because I'm stuck with disturbingly-not-current versions of much everything lately, things crash a bit too often for lack of resources and so forth. It has recently come to the point of nobody giving a crap whether their app runs on 98 or not (mostly not), and I'm NOT willing to get stuck in the stone age of software if only that keeps working. Not being able to watch a current MOV clip on the net just about does it... :angry:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd try to remove ACPI (and APM) from Win 98, to liberate some more memory on the 4th GB...

I've posted a how-to here (link) some time ago, for other reasons, but it might solve your problem.

Then again, this is just a wild guess...

Anyway, good luck! And please do keep me posted on it.

Thanks, but as one of the posters in the other thread noted, I'm not in a hurry to get rid of ACPI (if I understand correctly, the 3 to 4 GB area really matters, and ACPI seems to hold a lousy 20MB there), especially since disabling it in the BIOS would shoot it under my other OS (XP) too, I suppose.

Note that my how-to was written with other purposes in mind. For a double boot machine, I'd recommend to skip the BIOS part, so as to leave ACPI for the other OSes. And, then, remove ACPI from Win 98 only (this causes Win 98 to switch to APM). And the remove APM also from Win 98 only. As well as disable NVRAM/ESCD updates and IRQ Steering in Win 98 only. It can be done and works OK. What remains to be seen is whether this also can solve your memory problem.

Edited by dencorso
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does the WinME virtual memory manager work with Win98SE?

If so, I think this would be the only way to get 2 GB working, otherwise the most is a little more than 1.5 GB.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm NOT willing to get stuck in the stone age of software if only that keeps working

You want stone age? Get a computer with an early version of DOS. That's stone age. :angry:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Corrected.

Sorry for that one, it must have been a browser encoding thing, as that misrepresented value is correct in my original text file.

Don't the last 512 Megs start from A0000000? Originally you had Cyrillic "A" there.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Corrected.

Sorry for that one, it must have been a browser encoding thing, as that misrepresented value is correct in my original text file.

Don't the last 512 Megs start from A0000000? Originally you had Cyrillic "A" there.

Here's the original text in Russian:

Как правило, устройства AGP используют для своих нужд адреса, начиная с е0000000, то есть 3,5 Гб. Дисковому кэшу при этом можно использовать полгигабайта.

Same text in English:

As a rule, AGP devices use addresses starting from E0000000, that is 3,5 Gb. Disk cache at that can use a half gigabyte.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm NOT willing to get stuck in the stone age of software if only that keeps working

You want stone age? Get a computer with an early version of DOS. That's stone age. :angry:

My oh my, someone is in a cranky mood today... B) We certainly can go back to the Spectrum, the punched tape, or Babbage if you wish, but let's not, shall we? I arbitrarily define as stone age version any software that does not enable me to use features considered standard these days, features that my hardware would otherwise be quite capable to perform. And most software today is a GENERATION beyond their last version that supported win98, usually more than fulfilling the criteria above. I could even live with that, I suppose. But when a properly set-up memory upgrade wrecks the runnability of a quarter of my programs, plays tricks with the audio with the rest, and the best advice I get is to shoot the ACPI too to solve all this, I start having second thoughts, pardon me.

So.

You say all this isn't very constructive? Excellent observation. Perhabs you have an idea then why is a 128MB Radeon allocating 512MB of virtual address space, given that most people's video adapters take a QUARTER of that...?

...Thought so. Thank you.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm NOT willing to get stuck in the stone age of software if only that keeps working

You want stone age? Get a computer with an early version of DOS. That's stone age. :angry:

My oh my, someone is in a cranky mood today... B) We certainly can go back to the Spectrum, the punched tape, or Babbage if you wish, but let's not, shall we? I arbitrarily define as stone age version any software that does not enable me to use features considered standard these days, features that my hardware would otherwise be quite capable to perform. And most software today is a GENERATION beyond their last version that supported win98, usually more than fulfilling the criteria above. I could even live with that, I suppose. But when a properly set-up memory upgrade wrecks the runnability of a quarter of my programs, plays tricks with the audio with the rest, and the best advice I get is to shoot the ACPI too to solve all this, I start having second thoughts, pardon me.

So.

You say all this isn't very constructive? Excellent observation. Perhabs you have an idea then why is a 128MB Radeon allocating 512MB of virtual address space, given that most people's video adapters take a QUARTER of that...?

...Thought so. Thank you.

eh don't mind Benoitren. he can sometimes act like a punk! :angry:

some of us are really fed up with his immature childish behavior; one of these days, if he "crosses the line" he might get banned from this 9x forum

Edited by erpdude8
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[...]

With this in mind, let's see if I understood well : dare I ask, what you are saying amounts to Windows/VMM at startup remapping to system memory space (the 3rd virtual gigabyte) any XMS memory blocks that were allocated (in DOS presumably) before Win started ? Makes sense !

--

Ninho

Ninho:

Thanks for the heads up. I've, now, corrected my post.

But I forgot to answer your question, so I'm doing it now:

Yes, you've got it right. That's exactly what I meant.

And XMSDSK is just a good example of a program that allocates XMS from DOS (run from autoexec.bat or from config.sys), before Windows even begins to load. There are other examples, but I think ramdisks are the most useful nowadays. I think Igor Leyko didn't cover this subject in his article because it would render even more complicated a subject that, as you yourself have said, is not easy at all. But in the present thread it is unavoidable to consider the case of ramdisks, because, IMHO, they are a must for systems having more than 1GB of RAM installed.

Speaking of RAMDisks, the max size you can create is 2Gb. see this MDGx tip on how to use RAMDisks:

http://www.mdgx.com/newtip12.htm#RAM

thanks to GreyPhound and dencorso for the english translation.

Edited by erpdude8
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
eh don't mind Benoitren. he can sometimes act like a punk! mad.gif

some of us are really fed up with his immature childish behavior; one of these days, if he "crosses the line" he might get banned from this 9x forum

What the hell are you talking about?

I'm so sorry I was defending Win98, which is what this entire forum is mostly about. Sheesh.

Features considered standard these days? Eh, people take anything for granted these days. I wouldn't follow the sheep. Those same sheep that fall for M$' lies every time and continue to buy software that is more than a generation behind when it comes to actual programming techniques and optimisation. People will accept anything, apparantly.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Speaking of RAMDisks, the max size you can create is 2Gb. see this MDGx tip on how to use RAMDisks:

http://www.mdgx.com/newtip12.htm#RAM

Hi, erpdude8! :hello:

You're right: the max size for XMSDSK is 2Gb. That's because it is FAT16, which has an upper upper limit is 2Gb. It also causes XMSDSK to behave strangely and throw errors, refusing to load, with more than 2GB of RAM installed. Although I never faced such a problem myself, I've read that, strictly for these cases, the solution is to let it load below the top of the memory, by ommiting the "/T" switch, which is otherwise mandatory for use with Windows. See the last lines of this TechArena post (#2), by Mark-Allen Perry, about it. BTW: no, it cannot be made FAT32, because its format is part of how it's coded...

Edited by dencorso
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does the WinME virtual memory manager work with Win98SE?

If so, I think this would be the only way to get 2 GB working, otherwise the most is a little more than 1.5 GB.

No. VMM.VxD 4.90.0.3000 does not work with Win 98SE. It refuses to load, even after downversion patching, as I had predicted elsewhere. But now I know for sure, because I've tried it. So this is the first known example of Win ME .VxD file that won't load in Win 98SE, despite what version it claims to be...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GreyPhound

``````````````````````

Windows 9x and lots of memory: Dotting the i's

@GreyPhound

I have a problem viewing images in the article. I get "403 Forbidden" error.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Somebody mentioned to me and many other people you can tell windows to allocate memory to the HD.

2. There is a memory leak problem that was removed that could be turned on again to slove this.

3. It should automatically work but I never reached over 1Gig margin.

4. You might have to go into the registery and edit some settings??

5. You can probably allocate memory to memory you have installed as limited storage.

6. AGP cards???? can be directed to use other memory I just forget where to. In most cases you need to tell it in the settings and it can see the extra memory it just has to reach it.

7.

You want stone age? Get a computer with an early version of DOS. That's stone age. :angry:

DOS is not stone age nore is Basic get one of those mini Super computers that schools had with the big cassette on it back when they said computers was going to get bigger.

The MicroComputer is the average Labtop/PC desktop.

Even a Super Computer is not stone age and those where the first ones. People still use Micro-computers

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have a problem viewing images in the article. I get "403 Forbidden" error.

Hi, Xeno86! :hello:

Download them from this link. HTH.

@everybody: Do you all want real stone age? Try the EDVAC or the ENIAC.

Then again, without them we wouldn't be here today, ain't it so? :)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.