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Windows 98SE "Immolator" - things to finish

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#1
Offler

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Crash history
Not maintained at this time

Info
Immolator project is a betatest project. My goal is to test some applications and settings on windows 98SE to provide information for other users about some features which are still available on Windows 98Se. Minor part contains test of several hardware devices.

Software which is linked from here has been sucessfully tested on my system and seems functional. If it needs additional software upgrades it is mentioned there.

Update
This post will contain full list of software and will include all settings which have been sucessfully tested, and if possible it will contain Link to tested software.


FEATURES
- classical os functions - files managing (OS + Total Commander http://www.ghisler.com/
- image editing and creation (Photoshop 7.0, still no Freeware replacement available)
- image viewing (Faststone viewer, http://www.faststone.org/
- sound editing, capturing and creation (Audacity - http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
- sound playing (MPC - http://www.free-code....er_Classic.htm
- Analog Video Capturing (ATV2000 - ATI VIVO, Pinnacle 300i - http://www.mikecrash...?name=Downloads
- Digital TV Viewing and Capturing (ProgDVB, Pinnacle 300i - http://www.progdvb.c...ad_progdvb.html - at the bottom version 4.85.3. KEX required)
- Video editing and creation - Virtual DUB ( http://www.virtualdub.org/ )
- Video Playing (MPC)
- teletext (atv2000 - Not functional anymore, ProgDVB - Functional, needs settings)
- internet browsing (Opera 10 - http://www.opera.com/
- mail and instant messaging via web (webicq, web email client)
- Voice communication (Ventrilo, Teamspeak)
- text and document creation (Open Office)
- Gaming (depending on HW - games seems to be most problematic types of apps. many bugs which are not possible to fix and there is no replacement for them :) )

Realtime multimedia processing provided by apps:
- realtime shader filtering for video (MPC: deinterlacing, color correction, embossing...)
- realtime video filtering (FFD video: actually used only for decoding)
- realtime Sound filtering (AC3 Filter: channel settings if you have generic card - http://ac3filter.net/ )
- realtime video compression (during capture) Xvid04102002-1 (640x480xRGB24 fps25 - up to 6 hours/single file depending on quality)
- subtitle filter (DirectVobSub 2.23 - http://www.free-code...load/vobsub.htm
- Reccomended Xvid/DivX video decoder - Koepi's Xvid - ( http://www.free-code.../Koepi_XviD.htm )

Multimedia processing provided by hardware:
- Hardware Mpeg Decompression - clvsd.ax - Part of Cyberlink DVD player 6.0
- Hardware AC3 Sound decompression - Creative sound card in my case
- realtime Sound filtering (Creative Surround mixer if you have creative card)


Features not available or not completed:
- NTFS/other filesystem support, best bootable
- currently available: Winternals NTFS Driver for Win98. Works but slow and buggy.

Unused hardware capabilities
- Video conferencing (app missing)

Supported formats
- "long list of file types for media"
- HD *720 at 30fps for this cpu
- all word and office documents
- DVD, CD, Floppy, USB 2.0, Firewire400 (800 planned)
- cinematic sound (5.1/ac3/ASIO)
- FAT12, FAT16, FAT32 and NTFS drivers (not bootable, with poor performance)
- files up to 4gb.
- ATA, Parallel SCSI
- some SATA adapters
- SPDIF

Currently unsupported
- Blu-Ray
- Files larger than 4 gb
- USB 3.0
- PCI-E
- Some SATA adapters, SAS
- Lightscribe feature

I have been working pretty hard last two years on my home PC, on HW and SW level. I want to thank all you guys which have created all unofficial updates and patches. After all there are few things which a fail to fix, so all you guys can take it as bugreport :)

Complete list of System updates installed as follows:
- Internet Explorer 6
- home made system.ini
- Exuberant Service Pack nSP1 (Slovak)
- home made system.ini
- VCRedist 2005 + manual install of critical DLLs
- Mdac
- NetFramework 2.0 (http://www.filehippo...ramework_2/496/)
- DirectX 9.0c (first edition - http://www.filehippo...d_directx/168/)
- DirectX 9.0c (nov 2007 - it seems to be last version - http://www.filehippo..._directx/3345/)
- Windows Media Player 9
- kernel upgrade for 4gb files
- Kernel EX 0.4.0
- WLL logo (removed, maybe forever)
- Revolutions Pack 9.0 (some bugs still persist)
- VCRedist 2005+ SP1

Manually upgraded/added files:
- msvcp70.dll
- msvcr70.dll
- msvcp71.dll
- msvcr71.dll

bugs already fixed/features added:
- support for XP programs
- improved system stability
- improved compatibilty
- improved performance
- support for 4gb files
- Aspi Layer
- support for 137+ gb disks
- skinning, explorer bug fixed - lock taskbar (Revolutions pack 9.0)
- "not Enough memory" fix with maxfilecache=32768
- Video decoding (FDDShow filter)
- Wll trouble (wll removed)
- browsing (Opera)

Demanded features:
- WinME driver handling (ntkern.vxd, mmdevldr etc)
- ability to install win2k drivers (Signature:winNT, not only signature Chicago)

if those three errors shall be fixed this system will be flawless (until i find another problems :) ) I dont want to use other upgrade packs, i am looking for standalone solutions (as was uberskin), and i dont want to change hw. In some cases i might be willing to change programs...

Current Buglist

1. Video Conferencing troubles (mostly driver based, partially app based)
- linein/mic
- graphical errors in video output - hw or driver is not able to handle all the "on/off" correctly
- WDM driver of VIVO only partially usable (not working with all apps)

2. Window spam >> memory consumption >> system crash
- partially can be fixed with instances managing in apps
- design trouble deeper in system :(
- partially fixed or supressed. Window spam now gives error "not enough memory to run application" instead of crashing - solved by maxfilecache=32768 or less. does not help with IE.

3. Gaming
- very individual. Games designed as XP only can run flawlessly, althought games designed for all systems are crashing constantly. This is not a system problem.

4. List of minor system bugs:
- cursor visible in 3d generated windows (games, video - fixable with mouse cage, but little bit strange solution, caused by DirectX9)
- Oblivon starts too long (can be fixed when opengl32.dll is replaced before oblivion starts and later restored)
Studio)
- civilization II cannot start (reason unknown)
- nfs4 cannot start (reason unknown)
- app cannot start "newer version of windows expected" - common os check which does not refer to the reality that updated windows can run most XP apps correctly. Can be fixed thorought system?
- system not fully localized (nor english, nor slovak)
- unsolved implementation of 16bit vfwwdm capturing device
- unsolved automatical close for MPC when video/audio ends
- unsolved automatical minimize to icon for audio playing
- when driver is sucessfully installed and system requests reboot dont answer "yes". system shalll hang... Dont reboot from applet - reboot from start menu.
- CDplaying with MPC not working. Bug connected with Win98 version

Planned non crucial upgrades:
- creating "immolator" theme including loadimage, closing image, sounds, cursor and icon pack.. jeez :)


This is not a upgrade pack, i am only common user which is customizing its own system, but i believe my example can help us all to fix some things.

edit:
Since the bug and crash log was not maintained for some months i removed it. This topic will be updated as soon as possible and in some time i will add more usable apps and solutions here (mostly regarding to multimedia and internet browsing)

Edited by Offler, 04 November 2009 - 02:20 AM.



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#2
icefireicefire

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2. Internet browsing (crucial)
I tried many browsers. Mozilla, Opera, Netscape, Maxthon. At all i always returned to Internet Explorer 6.0 because it was using good java support (i use java webicq) and it does not require upgrade modules as other browsers - it work with those systems (java, activex, pdf, flash) which are currently installed on my system.

But, sometimes IE freezes, and its window cannot by closed and it is preventing of reboot.

Version 6.0.2800.1106 (SP1)

I want to use Internet Explorer, or browser which does not need additional updates (which are currently in my system)

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Dont use IE!

As a Web Developer, IE is a NIGHTMARE! Just use some other browser -- once you get it working, it'll be faster, standerds complient, and even better looking.

And HOW do you LIVE without tabs?!?
_______
iCEFIRe

#3
Offler

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Video player problems solved.

Reason: l3codec is more sensitive to overclocking as other applications which i have available - even more as 3d engines. Quite strange, but good to now. I added voltage to CPU and did test (play 105 videos without crash). System has passed...

to icefireicefire:
i have my own reasons why to use it - mostly old java. i use webicq and i will use it for a while, but it is not very compatible with newer java plugins for other browsers. Also i hope that OC problem solved will stabilize the system - question is how much it shall affect IE...

also i tried to fix logo problem - still no effect.

#4
ShadeTreeLee

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4. BSOD with CD (only idea)
Some people told me that they wont use system which drops to BSOD if they open CD-Rom door accidentaly. I dont plan to install such upgrade, i am just asking if there is a solution which in this case prevents BSOD and opens window in GUI.

I'm not sure I even understand that you have a problem here but it sounds like to me that if your tray opens you are BSOD locked up. I'm also not sure that your ASPI layer is to blame there but what I wanted to contribute is this much:

I have found that any ASPI layer other than 4.60 is NOT for 98 and always leads to the making of many coasters from my blank CDs. I don't know how and I don't know why, I just know. Good luck.

#5
Marius '95

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I use Adaptec ASPI v4.7.1 and I had no problems.

#6
Drugwash

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2. SlimBrowser
3. GOM Player

Instead of WebICQ you may wanna try Miranda IM (see my signature) - in a few days, as the main server is down currently.

#7
Offler

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browsing:
ie is still being measured after voltage correction, and i watch if any trouble shall occur but it seem to work good now.

Aspi:
aspi which i use is in nSP 2.1, and it works correctly. newest aspi was not good one (prey was not running, while it has not detected aspi)

cdrom:
i mean - if you put out CD while it is playing media from it you will get BSOD. it is quite normal, and it does not freeze computer. but some people dont like idea when computer in this situation acts like this. for me its not a problem because i keep my cd rom clean and i am not so stupid to open CD door while it is playing.

some users just want classical window for this kind of situation.

Logo:
for buggy behaviour (gui was not booting) removed.

Edited by Offler, 05 February 2008 - 06:35 AM.


#8
dencorso

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Donator

I use Adaptec ASPI v4.71.2, for a long time already, and I never had any problems because of it.

The BSOD on ejecting a removable storage medium with files open is, the normal behaviour (i.e.: "by design"). It's not a bug and patching CDTSD.VxD to override it will entail data loss sooner or later. I strongly advise against it.

Edited by dencorso, 06 February 2008 - 02:17 AM.


#9
Offler

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Miranda didnt worked here. i don know why.

Also i have added features list to inform about which features are available for win98 and which i am planning.

Minor Bug:
If using any DX9 program it will pop up the mouse pointer on screen. While using older interface this error does not occur. Also present in WinXP - linked with DX9.

#10
Drugwash

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Miranda works on Win95 to Vista. Most likely, your network configuration is special and Miranda needs to be manually configured to match it. Please go to Options > Network and set any proxy details if needed, then go to Options > Network > ICQ and make sure login server and port settings are correct. If for some reason the default port is blocked (by LAN admin, ISP or similar), try setting it to port 80.

Also there's a Miranda plug-in for the meBeam video networking, which may fill in the gap in video conferencing (I'm not sure if it can do conferencing, but you may try it).
There's also the MirandaComm2 plug-in that can do 1-on-1 audio-video chat with another Miranda user that also has that plug-in installed. Unfortunately, the Addons page is down currently, as well as the Wiki.

For more details, you're welcome to join the Miranda forums, which are operational currently.
(apologies for going slightly off-topic)

May I suggest FastStone Image Viewer for image viewing/editing? Works just fine here. And FlashGet as download manager, Screamer Radio for on-line radio (although there's a Miranda plug-in for that too :rolleyes: ).

#11
Offler

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well. miranda does not work at all. it means that if i run it nothing happens.
*fixed*

i am going to test it.

Progress:
SmartBrowser - First browser that has passed all my requirements at all. i hope it will help to fix all errors that plagued IE.
Miranda - ICQ works, but without plugins i cannot see if the videoconferencing is possible. i shall wait for a while.
GOM - MPC, with FDDfilters do all what i want so i am not going to replace it.
Faststone - freeware, which looks and works like famous ACDSEE. i can recomend it, but it cannot replace Adobe Photoshop...

Edited by Offler, 07 February 2008 - 03:39 PM.


#12
Offler

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Video Conferencing - errors, and problems
i have tried some audio conferencing tools - TeamSpeak and Ventrilo. Ventrilo seems to be better for me, but other people online are experiencing some issues with lags.

Also videoconferencing. i was able to set TV tuner as main video source. Quite funny sending TV to internet using common tools as skype... since TV tuner is not much suitable (it needs special control panel - tv tuner app, which may conflict with other apps) i was able to run VIVO included with my graphics card (S-Video or Composite signal input). The driver is not much good, but one trick alo worked - i used old 16bit VFW driver interface which is not so conflicting.

Video:
www.mebeam.com/miranda

With video or audio conferencing tools i experienced one same error - they are picking up the "Line IN" by default and ignoring "Mic" input. this is quite bad because "Line in" is used by TV tuner and its input is controlled by this way. Mic can be controlled separately. In many cases those apps do not offer possibility to chage this setting.

one of the solutions is to swap the channels - input microphone to "line in" and capture tvtuner sound from "mic". this can be done only because my old TV tuner has outer sound lineout. in other cases it can mess up the sound.

Edited by Offler, 08 February 2008 - 02:02 PM.


#13
Offler

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Since actual Windows installation has one error i decided to make another reinstall to fix USB problem. USB was not functional and there was no reason of this state - only one. It seems that "PNP OSs:ON" must be set in Bios during installation process or usb shall not be functional. quite strange.

After this kind of installation i realized that i have one new and functional device - Microsoft TV/Video connection. In previous installations this driver was not active. Also i found one strange difference which is making trouble...

http://slayershrine.wz.cz/wdm.gif

on the right side is new installation which has correctly loaded WDM driver. On the left side is old installation which has installed older 16bit VFW driver. Althought WDM capturing device is correct it makes some trouble.

WDM driver for ATI Rage Theather chip is not able to work as a webcam (i can plug there classic analog cam), because at initialization program shall freeze. for this reason i used 16bit VFW driver which picked up the ATI device and pushed the video stream thru older, but more compatible driver. This solution made ATI Rage Theather usable for me as a video conferencing tool.

Right now i am looking for WDM driver which can work better with conferencing apps, but if i shall fail how can be WDM interface uninstalled and VfW installed, or if possible i want to use them both.

#14
jglori

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Hello there Offler. I just want to ask...you used the word "immolator" in the name of your project. Does this mean your patch functions in the same way as "wine" does with linux?

Also, does your patch work with "Gameguard?" I just asked this since the KernelEx project seem to be in limbo right now since Xeno has already said that he coudn't continue with its development because of his busy sched.

#15
patchworks

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Interesting discussion, here.

This project sounds very similar to mine (GNUWin) and to JackHammer, so I suggest you to keep an eye on them too.

GNUWin idea is hosted @ Windows Projects Community, but you need to be registered and logged to access it (unfortunally), so here's a quote:

Here's a list of useful links that may help:

;)
>> Suggestions welcomed ! <<


I still hope to see some kind of collaboration between our projects in the future...

Edited by patchworks, 12 February 2008 - 03:51 AM.


#16
Offler

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Immolator is not a standalone project. it stands on many project which are available all over the Internet. Most of them are here, rest is scattered all over.

Its purpose is to show how many features can be performed with Windows98 (9x) and also help users to find some very good apps to resolve system errors which they may find. Also all projects and system modifications here are compatible between them, but only if they are installed in correct order. These upgrades and modifications are picked up to improve stability and compatibility while not affecting backward compatibility with other formats or apps.

Also i still see here some bugs which i want to have fixed on my system, and as i hope it will provide feedback or inspiration to some wiseguys on this forum :)

also i am planning to add here some tricks how to work some apps better (mostly tv tuner related)...

the system which i am trying to build is intended for most widest compatibility and for this reason i pick up only those upgrades which are mostly based on dos7, win9x files and all possible upgrades which has MS released. I dont want to rebuild the system completely, i want to put it to its highest level possible.

(therefore i dont use now wll, uberskin or renovatio, since i have experienced incompatibility with some apps)

But i will appreciate any help, and i hope my solutions and experience shall be useful for other users/project builders :)

Edited by Offler, 12 February 2008 - 06:28 AM.


#17
patchworks

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(therefore i dont use now wll, uberskin or renovatio, since i have experienced incompatibility with some apps)


Try IconTweaker, then !

#18
Offler

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Icon Tweaker tested - interesting tool, but my system still miss 32bit icons so most of icons used were little bit crushed:

SEARCH FOR NTFS (ntfs like) FILESYSTEM

Current solution available: WinInternals NTFS Driver for win98
Buggy and not bootable.

Examining: NTFS-3G ( look in wikipedia)

#19
jaclaz

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Icon Tweaker tested - interesting tool, but my system still miss 32bit icons so most of icons used were little bit crushed:

SEARCH FOR NTFS (ntfs like) FILESYSTEM

Current solution available: WinInternals NTFS Driver for win98
Buggy and not bootable.

Examining: NTFS-3G ( look in wikipedia)


Some links/info in this thread:
http://www.msfn.org/...ME-t110814.html

jaclaz

#20
Offler

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Report:
- Slimbrowser passed all test for required period and causes no errors.
- Miranda does not passed the tests. sometimes its icons are frozen and incoming messages are not shown.
- Faststone passed.
- suitable videoconferencing tool still not found

#21
Drugwash

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Report:
- Miranda does not passed the tests. sometimes its icons are frozen and incoming messages are not shown.


Which version did you test? There's 0.7.3 stable release, 0.7.4 Release Candidate and 0.8.x alpha (development) series.

Then, the behavior on incoming messages can be tweaked more or less, depending on the active messaging plug-in (SRMM, Scriver, tabSRMM, nConvers++). If you want the message window to automatically pop up when receiving a message, you'll have to go to Options > Message sessions (name may vary) > Messaging and mark 'Automatically pop up the window when' and the respective status modes (your status) when it should do that. This works for SRMM and Scriver. The other two have different GUIs, but options should be pretty much similar.

If you join the forums and read/search around a bit, you'll find much more than you'll ever need to know. :rolleyes:

#22
Offler

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it was 0.7.3 stable release. i pickup mostly stable versions because i want test only last releases if possible.

Also i dont want message windows to popup. i just want an icon shown in taskbar. i tried some settings but overally miranda was making trouble. minor trouble but when i respond after one hour while still being online...

i shall see and test next stable release, but miranda makes sense for me if it shall be able to communicate with webcam - as an conferencing tool.

#23
Gape

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- Opengl32.dll (version 4.0 from Win95 update - 23.1.2001. works a bit faster than other versions)

Where did u find it ? :blink:

#24
Offler

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here:
http://www.microsoft...;displaylang=en

opengl32.dll seems to be newer than other versions i encountered. glu32.dll is older that in win98se package/nsp1... other files are not interesting.

Package dont install itself - its selfextractor. only file you need is opengl32.dll. Seems to be little bit optimized. i have measured one fps + in some tests and few percents overally.

sry bad link :)

Edited by Offler, 16 February 2008 - 02:15 PM.


#25
Gape

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opengl32.dll seems to be newer than other versions i encountered. glu32.dll is older that in win98se package/nsp1... other files are not interesting.

Sorry but this version is not newer than that included version in SP2 & 3. Only date is different from Win95 OpenGL 1.1 update, link, which is dated as 1996.




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