[CoffeeFiend]

Redhatcc, on Jul 11 2008, 01:18 AM, said:

Quote

User mode apps and drivers shouldn't be allowed to bring an OS to its knees like is currently possible

god i hate to think of the past with me and applications and drivers for vista.

Actually, Vista is much better for that. For one thing, video drivers run in user mode now (lots more stuff does actually), so they won't take down your system (it'll just restart the driver), unlike in XP. And god knows them ATI/GeForce drivers are often the ones who do so... (That, and crappy unstable chipsets with poor drivers)

[dexter.inside]

Quote

Actually, Vista is much better for that. For one thing, video drivers run in user mode now (lots more stuff does actually), so they won't take down your system (it'll just restart the driver), unlike in XP. And god knows them ATI/GeForce drivers are often the ones who do so... (That, and crappy unstable chipsets with poor drivers)

Let's not forget the support for heterogeneous video - let's say one 8800 GTS, one HD 4850 and one X1550. You could use the X1550 for PPU instead of an Ageia and the stronger two in software SLI. Everything done by the new XDDM2 and DirectX 11 driver model.

This post has been edited by dexter.inside: 11 July 2008 - 12:52 AM

[Tripredacus]

nmX.Memnoch, on Feb 19 2008, 12:18 AM, said:

I'm with cluberti here...every new Windows release goes through the same thing. I think maybe the only release that didn't was NT4, but that was mostly NT 3.51 with the Win95 interface thrown on top. WinXP went through the same things. When it was released people said it sucked, was slow, had compatibility issues, driver problems...the list just keeps going on. Now look at it. It's a stable, mature OS that, when properly configured, runs great on even modest hardware.

I think what we are running into here are people who didn't experience how the development (cycle) played out for those older OSes. They don't remember how EVERYONE wanted Millenium when it was in RC1 or don't remember how NOTHING WORKED on Windows 2000 on opening day or how Longhorn ruled until MS put a different GUI on it. It's because they weren't around, maybe they were younger, or not born (face it, there's a lot of kids on the Internet nowadays) or weren't into computers this much, etc. Yes there will always be the argument of "it sucks when it comes out" vs "its always been that way" because new people are coming in and saying their part. I encounter this in the other forum arena I work with, that being Transformers. While it used to just be a bunch of people (older) of the same age group, it has become a battle of the generations as more people enter the community.

[CoffeeFiend]

nmX.Memnoch, on Feb 19 2008, 12:18 AM, said:

I think maybe the only release that didn't was NT4

Not even! NT4 needed more than its fair share of bugfixes (7 service packs if you count SP6a, plus the rollup too). And the time, driver availability wasn't quite that great. Most manufacturers made drivers mainly for windows 95 and such. For instance, my old Epson Stylus Color II, the only driver that existed for it would only print at half the resolution and such (and if I recall properly, I had to wait to even get that, it came in a service pack). A very large amount of apps from those days plain didn't work at all either (a lot of stuff was still for dos/win9x -- not really written having NT in mind). It wasn't exactly flawless!

Tripredacus, on Jul 11 2008, 03:49 PM, said:

I think what we are running into here are people who didn't experience how the development (cycle) played out for those older OSes. They don't remember how EVERYONE wanted Millenium when it was in RC1 or don't remember how NOTHING WORKED on Windows 2000 on opening day

Exactly. And there will be plenty of those complaining about Windows 7 soon too. Win2k was particularly atrocious at first in my experience -- not quite that stable (especially pre-sp2), somewhat buggy, and the lack of drivers for most of our computers was pretty apparent... Some drivers just took forever to come out for it (in a non-broken state), like Creative's...

There's really NOTHING new at all about most of of the complaints about the new versions (bloated, space it takes, lack of drivers, slow, interface changes or differences in general, price... the old one works fine/I don't need this, etc). Eventually everybody moves to it. History repeats itself with every new version.

This post has been edited by crahak: 11 July 2008 - 02:23 PM

[dexter.inside]

Yep, very well said

[GurliGebis]

Just to correct people who complain about companies not writing x64 drivers.
Today, to get a driver WHQL signed by Microsoft, you have to submit both a x86 and x64 version of it.

So they are forcing hardware vendors that wants their drivers signed to develop both versions

[engert100]

Micro$oft always creates huge learning curves every decate.
Their blue screen of death and their crashing dll-s is what keeps me employed.

For example: For years we've had c:\documents and settings\
Now in Vista we have c:\users .
Why? Because they want to annoy you. Let's just start fresh with another piece of crap software/os and let's not make it backwards compatible with the other Os-s we've shipped over the past decade.
Great! This is what keeps me employed.
So the new OS will look like Vista, but in another decade they'll come up with a whole new design which has nothing to do with the Windows we use now.

This post has been edited by engert100: 27 July 2008 - 06:37 PM

[CoffeeFiend]

engert100, on Jul 27 2008, 08:35 PM, said:

Micro$oft always creates huge learning curves every decate.

Huge learning curve? What's changed to the point where it's become difficult to use? If anything, things are getting easier for most people. For most end users, the main change is the new start menu, which now has a search box.

engert100, on Jul 27 2008, 08:35 PM, said:

Their blue screen of death and their crashing dll-s is what keeps me employed.

You mean the hardware makers and their shoddy drivers (who are causing the BSODs) are what's keeping you employed (ok, back when people used Win9x, sure, a large part of those were MS' own fault, but XP's been out for ages).

engert100, on Jul 27 2008, 08:35 PM, said:

Let's just start fresh with another piece of crap software/os and let's not make it backwards compatible with the other Os-s we've shipped over the past decade.
Great! This is what keeps me employed.

What's incompatible? 99% of stuff works just the same, even the 32 bit apps on the x64 versions of Windows. How is it not backward compatible? It's no worse than any previous version of Windows. The only thing that's not backward compatible specifically with Vista x64 is ancient 16 bit apps. That statement is at least 100% wrong.

engert100, on Jul 27 2008, 08:35 PM, said:

For example: For years we've had c:\documents and settings\
Now in Vista we have c:\users .
Why? Because they want to annoy you.

Eh? The "documents and settings" thing was the annoying thing. And the name was fairly unrepresentative (should have been more like "User Profiles"). Those long names (like "Program Files") were meant to force developers to support long file names. Now that it's solved for good, we're moving to a more sane way to name things that's easier/faster to type. What's so hard about this anyways? Naming everything "my documents", "my pictures", "my music", and my everything was also pretty lame. Besides, I wouldn't complain about something that changed only once in 12+ years if you wanna complain about change.

With computers, you'll have to learn new things every so often, regardless of who makes the OS. Linux, Mac OS and others are no different. Some people adapt to change, others try to resist it. If anything, I'd complain it hasn't changed enough (they haven't solved many issues/made many things good enough yet).

This post has been edited by crahak: 27 July 2008 - 07:47 PM

[PC_LOAD_LETTER]

engert100, on Jul 27 2008, 07:35 PM, said:

Micro$oft always creates huge learning curves every decate.
Their blue screen of death and their crashing dll-s is what keeps me employed.

For example: For years we've had c:\documents and settings\
Now in Vista we have c:\users .
Why? Because they want to annoy you. Let's just start fresh with another piece of crap software/os and let's not make it backwards compatible with the other Os-s we've shipped over the past decade.
Great! This is what keeps me employed.
So the new OS will look like Vista, but in another decade they'll come up with a whole new design which has nothing to do with the Windows we use now.

'huge learning curves' = shorter paths to users files
BSODs, crashing dlls = employment
Micro$oft = Microsoft

You know i hate how greedy Microsoft is. They only released Vista to get more money. Yeah we need Windows XP SP12 in 2017 before they should try to make any money by releasing a new OS! They should just stop releasing new OSes and pay their bills with magic and smiles instead of dollars. Im sure their shareholders would understand. Sure they wouldnt make any money or push the market forward but shareholders like to make other people feel good so they wouldnt mind. Releasing a new product when their previous one has only been on the market for 5 years? Now thats pointless profit mongering im you ask me.


sounds like you hate Vista but id be willing to bet youd love Windows Mojave

[engert100]

Wow, a lot of Bill Gates lovers here.
I don't hate Microsoft, i'm just saying that their glitchy produtcs keep me employed.
Have fun with Windows 7!

[CoffeeFiend]

engert100, on Jul 28 2008, 09:05 AM, said:

Wow, a lot of Bill Gates lovers here.

In the same sense that not having irrational hatred towards this years' Ferrarri models makes you a Jean Todt lover?

Or is anyone that doesn't resist change, prefer the new ways, or plain disagrees with you automatically considered a "fanboy"?

This post has been edited by crahak: 28 July 2008 - 07:39 AM

[dexter.inside]

engert100, on Jul 28 2008, 04:05 PM, said:

I don't hate Microsoft, i'm just saying that their glitchy produtcs keep me employed.

That's why I love Microsoft, their mistakes are my profits OEMs, rejoyce!

[engert100]

dexter.inside, on Jul 28 2008, 10:33 AM, said:

That's why I love Microsoft, their mistakes are my profits OEMs, rejoyce!

It's great. This year for example, we have to train 2000 users on Office 2007. We have to teach them that Microsoft has created a ribbon.
This generates money (because someone has to pay for training), and that's why i love microsoft and their glitchy products.
Next year: Windows 7 training.
Awesome!

[dexter.inside]

engert100, on Jul 28 2008, 06:42 PM, said:

Next year: Windows 7 training.
Awesome!

We're in for some big money, my friends and I think we love money at least as much as Microsoft

Also, let's not forget the concept of Software Assurance itself, it's always easier to milk companies than end-users

[FthrJACK]

maly1, on Feb 19 2008, 12:25 AM, said:

.....some people waste Microsoft's time around the world while asking witty questions and reporting bugs, this is a cause of delayed products and why they release SP's.

...riiiight, thats why they make it sooooo hard to report things, and why they have large dedicated teams just for specific bug types and OS areas etc, and umm.. cause the dev team for windows 7 are the same people who read your bug reports. . .

[eyeball]

maly1, on Feb 18 2008, 07:25 PM, said:

Why would someone want to use vista whether it's SP1 SP2 when you can use an unbloated version of Windows 7 it comes out in 2009/10 but that does'nt mean you cant use XP till then right ?

My message to people who use Vista for the default OS..dont end of story get over it and wait for 7, some people waste Microsoft's time around the world while asking witty questions and reporting bugs, this is a cause of delayed products and why they release SP's. Hopefully Microsoft will ignore and slowly take their time needed to create this new OS instead of focusing on times + deadlines. Not only this but if your thinking of buying a computer or hardware you might have to buy more after because hardware vendors will need to support certain things within Windows 7 eg DirectX 11.

let the typing commence

uxevangelist.net

WRONG TOPIC CAN YOU PLEASE MOVE IT TO "Microsoft Beta Discussion" ? Thanks

This website here shows some Windows 7 screenshots, would'nt microsoft want to move away from vista lol i mean why release SP's and updates on two OS (vista, Windows 7) that look-a-like as each other, does not make sense they both will do the same things obviously unless vista will be use for only directX 10 and Windows 7 will be DirectX 11..but still the OS will do the same things..no sense hm im getting way ahead of myself now.

This just annoys me.

Windows 7 Kernel = Windows Vista Kernel + Despatcher Lock removed, Usermode scheduler added, Boot from VHD enabled and minwin + More. Now please tell me how you can possibly be so anti-vista and pro win 7 knowing what you now know....

[blackhartct]

eyeball, on Nov 6 2008, 02:12 PM, said:

maly1, on Feb 18 2008, 07:25 PM, said:

Why would someone want to use vista whether it's SP1 SP2 when you can use an unbloated version of Windows 7 it comes out in 2009/10 but that does'nt mean you cant use XP till then right ?

My message to people who use Vista for the default OS..dont end of story get over it and wait for 7, some people waste Microsoft's time around the world while asking witty questions and reporting bugs, this is a cause of delayed products and why they release SP's. Hopefully Microsoft will ignore and slowly take their time needed to create this new OS instead of focusing on times + deadlines. Not only this but if your thinking of buying a computer or hardware you might have to buy more after because hardware vendors will need to support certain things within Windows 7 eg DirectX 11.

let the typing commence

uxevangelist.net

WRONG TOPIC CAN YOU PLEASE MOVE IT TO "Microsoft Beta Discussion" ? Thanks

This website here shows some Windows 7 screenshots, would'nt microsoft want to move away from vista lol i mean why release SP's and updates on two OS (vista, Windows 7) that look-a-like as each other, does not make sense they both will do the same things obviously unless vista will be use for only directX 10 and Windows 7 will be DirectX 11..but still the OS will do the same things..no sense hm im getting way ahead of myself now.

This just annoys me.

Windows 7 Kernel = Windows Vista Kernel + Despatcher Lock removed, Usermode scheduler added, Boot from VHD enabled and minwin + More. Now please tell me how you can possibly be so anti-vista and pro win 7 knowing what you now know....

i know it seems like a great idea to yell at him but he made the post in feb.. before we knew anything about 7 other than a few rumors...

[eyeball]

LOL! sorry i did not see that
Oh well, my bad