[Cee-Kay]

Hi guys,

I was looking for some advice on upgrading my current rig. My current setup is an AMD-based system with the oldest component between 7-8 years old (ASUS A7A266 motherboard) I decided to compile some costings just to see exactly how much it would cost to drag my current setup a bit more up-to-date!

During my research I came across an Asrock 4CoreDual-SATA2 motherboard and realised that I would be able to use most of the components I already own minus a new CPU (a big bonus for me!). I did consider selling the items on eBay, but quickly realised that I wouldn't get back anywhere near what I paid for it at the time.

Although I have built several AMD and Intel-based systems for other people, since originally putting this system together, I have only upgraded my own over the years.

I would greatly appreciate anyone's comments and suggestions on the following spec I was considering (my first Intel-based system for myself)...

• Asrock 4CoreDual-SATA2 motherboard (approx. €53)
  
• Intel Core2 Duo E6700 (2.67GHz) (approx. €115)
  
• 2 x 1GB Kingston ValueRam PC2100 DDR (Already own)
  
• WD Raptor 150GB (Already own)
  
• Creative GeForce 4 Ti (Already own)
  
• Creative SoundBlaster Audigy II (Already own)
  
• Adaptec USB2 Card (Already own)
  
• Some kind of SATA RAID solution if the on-board RAID is not up-to-stratch (Open to suggestions)

I would also appreciate any suggestions on a recommended heat sink and fan to keep the CPU nice and cool as well as any suggestions for a Copper Gigabit networking card (I was considering a Realtek-based solution?).

Thanks in advance!

This post has been edited by Cee-Kay: 08 April 2008 - 07:21 AM

[suryad]

As for heatsink go with the one I got if you have a large case. I got the Thermalright 120 Ultra or whatever it is called. That sucker is just awesome at cooling but be wary the size is quite huge. Just check out Thermalright's site. Several overclockign forums swear by that thing and I believe them!

As for RAID cards there are lots of options out there...are you looking for SAS RAID or just regular SATA RAID? How much memory would you want on the RAID card? Adaptec and LSI would be the first places I would look though I would lean more towards LSI. They are mighty expensive though be warned! I considered getting a RAID card but then I just ran out of space in my case! So I am just sticking wiht the dual raptors for now. But the onboard RAID while decent does leave a lot to be desired especially if I want to add a few more drives becasue apparently 2 raptors in RAID 0 which I have max out the onboard disk IO bandwidth!!

[puntoMX]

suryad, on Apr 8 2008, 06:59 AM, said:

But the onboard RAID while decent does leave a lot to be desired especially if I want to add a few more drives becasue apparently 2 raptors in RAID 0 which I have max out the onboard disk IO bandwidth!!

Intel does that a bit better then nvidia as far as I know.

[nmX.Memnoch]

suryad, on Apr 8 2008, 06:59 AM, said:

Adaptec and LSI would be the first places I would look though I would lean more towards LSI.

Don't forget 3ware (AMCC). Awesome products. We've been using them in a couple of our workstations at work for a couple of years now. I also have a couple in my home domain controller/file server. Zxian can also attest to their ease of use, reliability and speed as well.

[cluberti]

I have to third 3ware - they're slightly more expensive, but they are also higher quality hardware and the drivers are TOP NOTCH (which I can't say for Adaptec, although LSI drivers are usually quite good).

[puntoMX]

Cee-Kay, on Apr 7 2008, 06:41 PM, said:

I would greatly appreciate anyone's comments and suggestions on the following spec I was considering (my first Intel-based system for myself)...

I would forget the setup you have now and start from scratch to avoid compatibility problems in hardware and software.

Quote

Asrock 4CoreDual-SATA2 motherboard (approx. €53)

This ASRock motherboard was designed for people that had a good AGP card already, but we are talking about 2.5 or even more years here that this motherboard was released.

Quote

Intel Core2 Duo E6700 (2.67GHz) (approx. €115)

Good CPU, but The new E8xx0 line will have the same performance for the price as the E6xxx series, while the E6xxx will have less features.

Quote

2 x 1GB Kingston ValueRam PC2100 DDR (Already own)

You could do that but you will be slowing down your CPU. The best performance you will get when RAM runs 1:1 or faster with the FSB of the CPU, so, a 1333MT/s CPU will prefer 667MHz (DDR) or better.

Quote

Creative GeForce 4 Ti (Already own)

Old but still useful, however, it’s AGP and a board with a "not to bad" RAID controller will have PCI-E. Even a 7200GS/64bit 256MB PCI-E will outperform the GF4 card and that for under 30€. Most of them are passively cooled so you will have less noise too.

Quote

Some kind of SATA RAID solution if the on-board RAID is not up-to-stratch (Open to suggestions)

The onboard VIA solution works, but with that all is said. To avoid compatibility problems with your older hardware and future hardware it’s advised to stay a way from VIA. Via already announced to pull it self out of the Personal Computer Chipset market and that should ring a bell to most of us.

So, in general what I’m saying is:

When you want performance like it should be and no compatibility problems then setup your computer like this:
- Good motherboard with P35 chipset and ICH9R
- E8xx0 Series CPU
- 1.8v DDR2 667 or 800MHz RAM (2 sticks to work in 128bit RAM mode)
- Simple PCI-E Video card
- New Power supply if the one you have now is older then 2 to 3 years

[puntoMX]

nmX.Memnoch, on Apr 8 2008, 02:25 PM, said:

Don't forget 3ware (AMCC). Awesome products. We've been using them in a couple of our workstations at work for a couple of years now. I also have a couple in my home domain controller/file server. Zxian can also attest to their ease of use, reliability and speed as well.

cluberti, on Apr 8 2008, 02:30 PM, said:

I have to third 3ware - they're slightly more expensive, but they are also higher quality hardware and the drivers are TOP NOTCH (which I can't say for Adaptec, although LSI drivers are usually quite good).

But you have a PCI-E or at least 64bit/66MHz PCI for sure. The VIA chipset on the 4COREDUAL-SATA2 doesn’t do more then "normal" PCI and a "more or less" PCI-E 4x sloth that will be only compatible with a few VGA cards and not with the AGP card in use and a PCI-E add-on card.

[nmX.Memnoch]

puntoMX, on Apr 8 2008, 01:47 PM, said:

nmX.Memnoch, on Apr 8 2008, 02:25 PM, said:

Don't forget 3ware (AMCC). Awesome products. We've been using them in a couple of our workstations at work for a couple of years now. I also have a couple in my home domain controller/file server. Zxian can also attest to their ease of use, reliability and speed as well.

cluberti, on Apr 8 2008, 02:30 PM, said:

I have to third 3ware - they're slightly more expensive, but they are also higher quality hardware and the drivers are TOP NOTCH (which I can't say for Adaptec, although LSI drivers are usually quite good).

But you have a PCI-E or at least 64bit/66MHz PCI for sure. The VIA chipset on the 4COREDUAL-SATA2 doesn’t do more then "normal" PCI and a "more or less" PCI-E 4x sloth that will be only compatible with a few VGA cards and not with the AGP card in use and a PCI-E add-on card.

That's true. However, if you spend THAT much on a top notch RAID controller and don't back it up with a motherboard to match, then you only have yourself to blame.

Also, 64-bit/66MHz PCI cards can be put into 32-bit PCI slots as well...you just won't get the full performance out of the card/drives. BUT, 3ware's "PCI" SATA RAID controllers are PCI-X cards, which means 64-bit/133MHz. They aren't your garden variety 64-bit/66MHz PCI card. They also support 64-bit LBA and array sizes larger than 2TB (which requires XP x64, Vista or Server 2003 SP1 or higher to take advantage of using GUID Partition Tables).


If he's just planning on running RAID0 or RAID1 the onboard controllers are usually good enough for desktop use. Now if you're talking RAID10 or RAID5 then I'd start looking at an addin controller.

[Cee-Kay]

Thanks to everyone that replied!

All your comments were extremely useful, particularly the brand of RAID card I should consider. I did have a funny feeling that I might be out of luck with my current components.

I haven't fully decided whether I will go with an AMD or Intel-based setup (although I'm certain there's pros and cons to both). No doubt when I'm in a position to purchase all the components, I'm sure the other members here will be able to stear me in the right direction.

Thanks again!

This post has been edited by Cee-Kay: 08 April 2008 - 02:43 PM

[puntoMX]

nmX.Memnoch, on Apr 8 2008, 03:34 PM, said:

BUT, 3ware's "PCI" SATA RAID controllers are PCI-X cards, which means 64-bit/133MHz.

Yeah I forgot to write that indeed.

[suryad]

Yeah forgot to mention 3ware. Excellent products. Expensive too as was already mentioned. And punto is right...Intel board has better RAID I believe.

[nmX.Memnoch]

Yeah, if you're going to use onboard RAID you definitely want to go with an Intel chipset based motherboard right now. AMD/ATI's aren't necessarily up to todays standards and NVIDIA is having problems with their's causing data corruption again (AnandTech has even had problems with the controller bricking several drives).

http://www.anandtech...doc.aspx?i=3279

[Zxian]

suryad, on Apr 8 2008, 03:40 PM, said:

Yeah forgot to mention 3ware. Excellent products. Expensive too as was already mentioned. And punto is right...Intel board has better RAID I believe.

Time for me to add that last vote for 3ware. I've got 8 drives connected to my 9650SE-8LPML in two arrays - 2x1GB in RAID1 and 6x500GB in RAID5. Plenty of space, and I couldn't ask for a more reliable setup.

My only gripe so far has been regarding email notification, but I just need to setup a proper SMTP server to handle that.

[nmX.Memnoch]

Zxian, on Apr 9 2008, 04:16 PM, said:

My only gripe so far has been regarding email notification, but I just need to setup a proper SMTP server to handle that.

I just use my ISP's SMTP server. It's worked for me without fault (at least during the tests...the controller has never had to send me anything other than a test email ).

[Cee-Kay]

Zxian, on Apr 9 2008, 10:16 PM, said:

I've got 8 drives connected to my 9650SE-8LPML in two arrays - 2x1GB in RAID1 and 6x500GB in RAID5.

Hi Zxian, did you mean 2x1TB in RAID1? 1GB is a little small nowadays!?

Just out of curiosity which HDDs do you use in your arrays?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found the drives your using in the 'Post Pictures and Specifications' thread. How are those WD10EACS drives working out for you? I've been looking at 1TB drives recently and had narrowed them down to the one you've got and the RAID version i.e. WD1000FYPS.

@nmX.Memnoch Thanks for the link, the article made quite interesting reading.

This post has been edited by Cee-Kay: 09 April 2008 - 06:09 PM

[Zxian]

Haha... whoops. 1GB wouldn't last me very long today.

The WD GP drives have been very good so far. They provide decent performance while staying whisper quiet. Just a word of warning - if your case resonates due to hard drive vibration, don't mix the WD GP drives with 7200RPM drives in the same system. If you listen VERY carefully to my system, you can make out a 30Hz beat frequency (7200RPM = 120Hz, 5400RPM = 90Hz) caused by the frequency mismatch of the two drives. Then again, I've done all that I can to minimize the noise of my computers. If your fans are louder than your hard drives, I doubt that you'd notice this effect at all.

[Cee-Kay]

Zxian, on Apr 10 2008, 10:23 PM, said:

Just a word of warning - if your case resonates due to hard drive vibration, don't mix the WD GP drives with 7200RPM drives in the same system.

Actually, I was considering either of the two WD GP drives for a DIY or off the shelf NAS. This was the reason for this thread -- I was considering using the components already owned with the other components I listed in order to build a DIY NAS.

However, I know I wouldn't be able to match the form factor or the power savings (and perhaps even the performance) compared to a retail version.

[puntoMX]

Cee-Kay, on Apr 11 2008, 07:26 PM, said:

Zxian, on Apr 10 2008, 10:23 PM, said:

Just a word of warning - if your case resonates due to hard drive vibration, don't mix the WD GP drives with 7200RPM drives in the same system.

Actually, I was considering either of the two WD GP drives for a DIY or off the shelf NAS. This was the reason for this thread -- I was considering using the components already owned with the other components I listed in order to build a DIY NAS.

However, I know I wouldn't be able to match the form factor or the power savings (and perhaps even the performance) compared to a retail version.

There are nice NAS housings that do there work well, so no need to buy a retail version at all. DIY is the way to go here .

[Cee-Kay]

puntoMX, on Apr 12 2008, 02:31 AM, said:

There are nice NAS housings that do there work well, so no need to buy a retail version at all. DIY is the way to go here .

Is there any particular makes/models you had in mind? Also am I right in assuming that there mainly designed for micro-ATX motherboards?

This post has been edited by Cee-Kay: 12 April 2008 - 12:44 PM

[nmX.Memnoch]

It's quite pricey but there's a product called Drobo that does it's own "RAID" calculations. It's not really a RAID, per se, but they have their own algorithm they use to provide data redundancy. And the drive sizes don't have to match...all you need are standard SATA drives to plug into the thing. I have two of them at work, one with 4x250GB drives and one with 4x1TB WD GP drives. They work very well and do their own thing with regards to getting around the 2TB parition limit. And I have to say that even though it's only a USB 2.0 link, they're still quite speedy.

Now, if you looked at the link before you got this far in the post you're saying "but that's not a NAS!". You're right...by itself it isn't. But they've just introduced the DroboShare that turns it into a NAS. And you can attach up to two Drobo's to a single DroboShare.

Again, it's a pricey solution but to have something that automatically configures data redundancy for you is well worth the slight cost overhead. The other nice thing is that you can upgrade the drives while it's online. Just replace each drive one at a time allowing enough time between each drive for it to rebuild the data parity (this will depend on how much data you have). Watch the video to see it in action.