cannie

Clone easily Windows 98 and XP in the same computer.

179 posts in this topic

Hi SAE 140!

I didn't understand you. This could be a good solution, I'll try to find the parts.

Thank you!

You're welcome.

I've found a better site - with (UK) prices.

http://pctradestore.com/code/ui/main/produ...&subcatid=0

3rd from the bottom: " 3.5" Internal IDE to IDE Mobile Hard drive Rack Caddy with 2 Fans and Key Lock". As you can see these can be sourced quite cheaply now, as USB-caddies have become more fashionable.

My only negative criticism of these devices is that they are often fitted with cheap Chinese fans, and as the lubricant dries out they start to vibrate. I've tried re-lubing the fans but eventually settled for disconnecting them completely, and removing the HDD tray top instead to prevent heat build-up.

Good luck.

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Hi SAE 140!

I didn't understand you. This could be a good solution, I'll try to find the parts.

Thank you!

You're welcome.

I've found a better site - with (UK) prices.

http://pctradestore.com/code/ui/main/produ...&subcatid=0

3rd from the bottom: " 3.5" Internal IDE to IDE Mobile Hard drive Rack Caddy with 2 Fans and Key Lock". As you can see these can be sourced quite cheaply now, as USB-caddies have become more fashionable.

My only negative criticism of these devices is that they are often fitted with cheap Chinese fans, and as the lubricant dries out they start to vibrate. I've tried re-lubing the fans but eventually settled for disconnecting them completely, and removing the HDD tray top instead to prevent heat build-up.

Good luck.

Thank you very much SAE140!

Greetings.

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Moved to the first post of this thread.

Edited by cannie
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Two things, just for the record.

1) be aware when you buy one of those trays, that they have 80 leads cables, quite a few of the cheap ones have the old IDE 40 lead cable, and if you have a newish/faster drive you'll experience problems.

2) @cannie, it depends on a number of factors, NT 4.00 was doable on FAT 16 volumes.

http://www.forensicfocus.com/index.php?nam...opic&t=2159

The "old" (and "poor man" ;) ) way to defrag a NT 4.00 Workstation in the old times (some of you might remember how NT 4.0 did not come with a built-in defragging tool) was exactly this, I had two installs of NT on two separate partitions, booted to the second (the "emergency") install, used xcopy to copy all the files from "main" partition to a third one, formatted (and optionally wiped) the first one, then xcopied back the files.

Windows 2K introduced a complication:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=90495

but it was still doable, at least on FAT 16 and 32 volumes.

I never tried with XP, nor with NTFS volumes.

Most probably robocopy or strarc:

http://www.ltr-data.se/opencode.html

or some similar software may be able to handle the permissions.

About XCOPY,

Nick Rage:

http://www.duxcw.com/digest/Howto/hd/cpyhd/cpyhd2.htm

is to be credited for the:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=24650&st=9

I SERVe Kentucky Fried Chicken Hot!

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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Thanks, jaclaz, for your kind advice.

Merry Christmas!

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By using the cloning procedure described in the first post of this thread, I wonder if it would be possible to run Windows 98 SE without using at any moment the HD whenever you have at least 512 GB memory, the following way:

Step 1.- Copy C:\ Windows to a different unit, and change every mention to C: into Z: (or any other non existing unit), so we shall have Z:\Windows, totally installed. We may check it by changing all mentions to C:\Windows into Z:\Windows in the Autoexec.bat, Config.sys and Msdos.sys files.

Step 2.- Zip it, including the Io.sys, Command.com, Autoexec.bat, Config.sys and Msdos.sys files in the root.

Step 3.- Make a bootable CD using DOS containing the zip file, and instead of the 2048 bytes virtual drive created normally by the Config.sys file generate a bigger one, about 256 GB, giving to it the same drive letter, in which you could unzip that file and run Windows afterwards.

Step 4.- Booting from the CD, unzip the file in the newly created virtual drive and afterwards start win.exe in the normal way.

Well, I have the idea but don't know how to do it. Maybe it has already been made, maybe not and maybe it is impossible.

Any information or idea about it will be welcome.

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Step 1.- Copy C:\ Windows to a different unit, and change every mention to C: into Z: (or any other non existing unit), so we shall have Z:\Windows, totally installed. We may check it by changing all mentions to C:\Windows into Z:\Windows in the Autoexec.bat, Config.sys and Msdos.sys files.

And of course ALL those into the Registry. :whistle:

Any information or idea about it will be welcome.

Wouldn't this be a question like "how to run windows 9.x from RAMDISK?"

If yes, there are already answers to that question ;):

http://www.geocities.com/politalk/rmdrv/index.html

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=12326

http://www.winimize.com/

http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showforum=53

jaclaz

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Hi jaclaz!

Evidently also system.dat and user.dat and also all .ini files.

Thanks for your links, they mean different ways to approach the same idea, but none of them reaches the point in which you don't use the HD in any moment, working exclusively from the memory, as a substitute to virtualizing from any other OS.

Maybe it is impossible under Win98. But nobody knows. If I find a solution I'll post it here.

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You can switch the disks around physically

The only problem in this is that you must open the box to unplug/plug every new HD.

I wonder if there is any procedure to keep the master HD out of the box while using it, so that the change may be done easily, or if it is possible to use any existing device to switch from outside the connection of two main HD into the motherboard, as it happens in many other fields, i.e. in Sat-tv to switch between external parabole antennas.

I think what you want is a "Nicklock" if you can still find one, or build it yourself--here

http://www.dvhardware.net/modules.php?name...cle&artid=4

I have a Nicklock installed for years and love it.

Charlie

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but none of them reaches the point in which you don't use the HD in any moment, working exclusively from the memory, as a substitute to virtualizing from any other OS.

Well, NO. Sure enough some of them do, of course you need an initial loading into RAM, this can happen from CD-ROM also.

For the record, system.dat and user.dat ARE the Regisrtry:

http://www.computerhope.com/registry.htm

@charly

A sligthly different, but equally interesting method is this German bootloader ;):

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=23622

http://lab1.de/Central/Software/System-Tools/WWBMU/

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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Wouldn't this be a question like "how to run windows 9.x from RAMDISK?"

If yes, there are already answers to that question ;):

http://www.geocities.com/politalk/rmdrv/index.html

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=12326

http://www.winimize.com/

http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showforum=53

jaclaz

Those links give you the tools to create a big virtual disk to run Windows 9x from Ramdisk, but are not exactly what I mean, that is to run your whole, own and personal installed version of Windows 98 from Ramdisk without using at any moment any HD. I'll keep trying it and if the results are positive I'll post it here.

@charly

An excellent work. I enjoy doing this kind of things.

Thank you both.

Edited by cannie
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I have Windows 98 SE on a hard drive that is partitioned

c: d: e: f: g: h: i: j: k: l: m: n:

Windows 98 is on drive i:

I tried to use Drive2Drive to clone the hard drive.

I put the new drive in and set it to be the slave.

I tried to boot up but the new drive became drive e:

so now the drive letters were

c: d: e: f: g: h: i: j: k: l: m: n: o:

and Windows 98 was no longer in the i: drive but

was now in the j: drive so it couldn't be found and

the boot stopped at a DOS prompt.

So Drive2Drive could not start because Windows could

not start.

I took out the slave drive and booted Windows 98 and

ran Drive2Drive. It did not report the drive sizes correctly.

I put the slave drive into a USB enclosure and connected it

and tried to clone the master harddrive to the USB drive

using Drive2Drive but it said there was not enough room

on the destination drive.

I had somehow previously partitioned it but I forget how.

I tried SpotMau but it only works with XP etc now even

though they say it works with Windows 98 on their website.

My next step was to try was to repartition the enclosed drive

using my WindowsXP laptop but it doesn't do FAT32. And

my Windows 98 boot disk fdisk doesn't seem to want to

partition any more than 40Gigs and I want 60Gigs or 80Gigs.

I like the idea of this thread of booting from a floppy into

Windows 98 on a different drive than i: . I could use it

to boot a new copy of Windows on the :o drive with the

slave drive as e: and then try XXCopy or XXClone? or

Drive2Drive?

What if I put the new drive in as master and partitioned it

and installed the MBR using the Windows 98 boot floppy?

And then stuck the old drive in as slave and copied the i:

drive on the old hard disk to the i: drive on the new disk?

I think I would run out of drive letters.

Or could I install Windows 98 on a new drive and stick a

copy of my old Windows 98 on my USB drive in a directory

and use the i:\Windows to C:\Windows find replace technique

to get my old Windows 98 to move from the i: drive on the

old hard disk to the c: drive on the new harddisk. Then I

would have to copy my old prepaired Windows from the USB

drive to C:\Windows1 on the new drive. Then boot into DOS

and delete C:\Windows and copy or rename C:\Windows1 into

C:\Windows on the new drive. Do you think this would work?

Probably all my software would not work since it all wants to

be in drive k: etc. -- I could copy the old Windows from USB

to i: on the new drive and copy all the other drives into their

places from USB and then tell c:\autoexec.bat etc to use the

i:\Windows to boot up instead of the new c:\Windows. Then I

could delete c:\Windows. Do you think this would work?

:wacko:

Will XXCopy work for me? Will XXClone? How can I partition

80Gigs?

So I have the problem that Windows 98 is on the i: drive

and so cloning seems to be difficult. My c: drive is not big

enough to do anything but boot up Windows.

Can you help me? Any ideas?

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I've never heard of Drive2Drive, but XXCopy is a pretty well established utility. Have a look at this and see if it helps:

http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy10.htm

I don't use FDISK so I don't know what its limitations are. I've heard of a utility called Super FDISK but I don't know anything about it I use Norton's GDISK, which has no trouble with larger partitions.

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Will XXCopy work for me? Will XXClone? How can I partition 80Gigs?

Can you help me? Any ideas?

The worst thing you may do is having Windows 98 only in one partition. A good partitioning of an 80 GB disk may be this (I presume doublebooting):

Main partition 1: drive C, only 3 GB, for Windows XP (without Program Files) and doubleboot root files.

Main partition 2: drive J, only 3 GB, for possible future experimental purposes, or to use it as working storage unit.

Extended partition:

Drive D, 6 GB for program Files (both for XP and Windows 98), and also for Windows 98 (clone).

Drive E, 3 GB for Windows 98 SE having only the OS, to rebuild this unit you may format it from any of the others and rebuild from scratch. This unit is the one for normal use and to be used for cloning into D and G.

Drive F, 3 GB for Win386.swp, pagefile.sys of XP, all temp folders, including Temporary Internet Files. All Win98 ones may be moved using COA2.exe, and the ones belonging to XP by editing the registry using Registry Crawler. No temp folder, history file, or cookies folder should be left on drive C. This way drive F may be formatted quick using Autoexec.bat at every start or Windows 98, or deleted using the command "del" if XP is used. Most viruses are avoided this way. This idea is copied from Linux.

Drive G: 25 GB, for My Documents (and also music, photos, etc) of Windows 98, leaving a link to it on the desktop of XP. The My documents folder of XP is too dependent of the OS and your docs are more secure this way. In this drive you may install also a second copy of Windows 98 (clone).

Drive H: 25 GB, for all Application Data of Windows 98, common to the OS installed on units C (clone), E (main) and G (clone). And also and essentially to keep .rar copies of both OS, folders and absolutely everything existing at the C, D and E files.

Drive I: 28 GB used to keep the install files of Windows 98 and also all install files of each and every apps used, both for Win98 and XP. As there is a lot of place left, you may keep here if you wish also a second copy of the backup files (from drive H) and My Documents (from drive G).

It is convenient to have a second, third or fourth HD into external cases and connected using USB2 only for storage purposes. If your USB works too slow you may install an IDE USB card and the speed increases about 50 times. It is easy to find and very cheap.

Of course you must keep 3 floppies to boot drives D, E or G in case of need, and also a floppy to boot XP (you only need to copy in it all C:\ root files, but never pagefile.sys) .

To clone the HD I think it is better not to clone the complete HD but the partitions, one by one, formatting previously the new HD using Partition Manager or Fdisk.exe under DOS. Afterwards you only have to copy-paste.

If you prefer copying using DOS, the freeware Xxcopy.exe is an excellent substitute for Xcopy.exe.

"Synchronize it!" and "Comparator Pro" are two Windows 98 programs which allow you to update your cloned HD without copying everything again but only what is changed.

BTW when you check your HD against the copy you always find some surprises: unwanted files introduced without your knowledge, or deleted or modified files that you were not aware of any change, in many cases altered via Internet without any advice.

HTH

Edited by cannie
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Will XXCopy work for me? Will XXClone? How can I partition 80Gigs?

Can you help me? Any ideas?

Main partition 2: drive J, only 3 GB, for possible future experimental purposes, or to use it as working storage unit.

I forgot to say that when you create a second main partition in the same HD the one which is active takes letter C and the not active one takes the last letter. The Extended Partition keeps being always in the middle.

If you make active partition 2 instead of partition 1 the letter is reversed, that is, partition 1 is renamed with the last letter and partition 2 takes the letter C.

HTH

Edited by cannie
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