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Clone easily Windows 98 and XP in the same computer.

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#51
cannie

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By using the cloning procedure described in the first post of this thread, I wonder if it would be possible to run Windows 98 SE without using at any moment the HD whenever you have at least 512 GB memory, the following way:

Step 1.- Copy C:\ Windows to a different unit, and change every mention to C: into Z: (or any other non existing unit), so we shall have Z:\Windows, totally installed. We may check it by changing all mentions to C:\Windows into Z:\Windows in the Autoexec.bat, Config.sys and Msdos.sys files.

Step 2.- Zip it, including the Io.sys, Command.com, Autoexec.bat, Config.sys and Msdos.sys files in the root.

Step 3.- Make a bootable CD using DOS containing the zip file, and instead of the 2048 bytes virtual drive created normally by the Config.sys file generate a bigger one, about 256 GB, giving to it the same drive letter, in which you could unzip that file and run Windows afterwards.

Step 4.- Booting from the CD, unzip the file in the newly created virtual drive and afterwards start win.exe in the normal way.

Well, I have the idea but don't know how to do it. Maybe it has already been made, maybe not and maybe it is impossible.

Any information or idea about it will be welcome.


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#52
jaclaz

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Step 1.- Copy C:\ Windows to a different unit, and change every mention to C: into Z: (or any other non existing unit), so we shall have Z:\Windows, totally installed. We may check it by changing all mentions to C:\Windows into Z:\Windows in the Autoexec.bat, Config.sys and Msdos.sys files.

And of course ALL those into the Registry. :whistle:

Any information or idea about it will be welcome.

Wouldn't this be a question like "how to run windows 9.x from RAMDISK?"
If yes, there are already answers to that question ;):
http://www.geocities...mdrv/index.html
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=12326
http://www.winimize.com/
http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=53

jaclaz

#53
cannie

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Hi jaclaz!

Evidently also system.dat and user.dat and also all .ini files.

Thanks for your links, they mean different ways to approach the same idea, but none of them reaches the point in which you don't use the HD in any moment, working exclusively from the memory, as a substitute to virtualizing from any other OS.

Maybe it is impossible under Win98. But nobody knows. If I find a solution I'll post it here.

#54
charly

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You can switch the disks around physically


The only problem in this is that you must open the box to unplug/plug every new HD.

I wonder if there is any procedure to keep the master HD out of the box while using it, so that the change may be done easily, or if it is possible to use any existing device to switch from outside the connection of two main HD into the motherboard, as it happens in many other fields, i.e. in Sat-tv to switch between external parabole antennas.


I think what you want is a "Nicklock" if you can still find one, or build it yourself--here
http://www.dvhardwar...e...cle&artid=4
I have a Nicklock installed for years and love it.
Charlie

#55
jaclaz

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but none of them reaches the point in which you don't use the HD in any moment, working exclusively from the memory, as a substitute to virtualizing from any other OS.

Well, NO. Sure enough some of them do, of course you need an initial loading into RAM, this can happen from CD-ROM also.

For the record, system.dat and user.dat ARE the Regisrtry:
http://www.computerh...om/registry.htm

@charly
A sligthly different, but equally interesting method is this German bootloader ;):
http://www.msfn.org/...showtopic=23622
http://lab1.de/Centr...em-Tools/WWBMU/


jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 26 December 2008 - 02:11 PM.


#56
cannie

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Wouldn't this be a question like "how to run windows 9.x from RAMDISK?"
If yes, there are already answers to that question ;):
http://www.geocities...mdrv/index.html
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=12326
http://www.winimize.com/
http://www.boot-land...hp?showforum=53

jaclaz


Those links give you the tools to create a big virtual disk to run Windows 9x from Ramdisk, but are not exactly what I mean, that is to run your whole, own and personal installed version of Windows 98 from Ramdisk without using at any moment any HD. I'll keep trying it and if the results are positive I'll post it here.

@charly
An excellent work. I enjoy doing this kind of things.

Thank you both.

Edited by cannie, 27 December 2008 - 01:47 AM.


#57
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I have Windows 98 SE on a hard drive that is partitioned
c: d: e: f: g: h: i: j: k: l: m: n:

Windows 98 is on drive i:

I tried to use Drive2Drive to clone the hard drive.
I put the new drive in and set it to be the slave.
I tried to boot up but the new drive became drive e:
so now the drive letters were
c: d: e: f: g: h: i: j: k: l: m: n: o:
and Windows 98 was no longer in the i: drive but
was now in the j: drive so it couldn't be found and
the boot stopped at a DOS prompt.

So Drive2Drive could not start because Windows could
not start.

I took out the slave drive and booted Windows 98 and
ran Drive2Drive. It did not report the drive sizes correctly.
I put the slave drive into a USB enclosure and connected it
and tried to clone the master harddrive to the USB drive
using Drive2Drive but it said there was not enough room
on the destination drive.
I had somehow previously partitioned it but I forget how.

I tried SpotMau but it only works with XP etc now even
though they say it works with Windows 98 on their website.

My next step was to try was to repartition the enclosed drive
using my WindowsXP laptop but it doesn't do FAT32. And
my Windows 98 boot disk fdisk doesn't seem to want to
partition any more than 40Gigs and I want 60Gigs or 80Gigs.

I like the idea of this thread of booting from a floppy into
Windows 98 on a different drive than i: . I could use it
to boot a new copy of Windows on the :o drive with the
slave drive as e: and then try XXCopy or XXClone? or
Drive2Drive?

What if I put the new drive in as master and partitioned it
and installed the MBR using the Windows 98 boot floppy?
And then stuck the old drive in as slave and copied the i:
drive on the old hard disk to the i: drive on the new disk?
I think I would run out of drive letters.

Or could I install Windows 98 on a new drive and stick a
copy of my old Windows 98 on my USB drive in a directory
and use the i:\Windows to C:\Windows find replace technique
to get my old Windows 98 to move from the i: drive on the
old hard disk to the c: drive on the new harddisk. Then I
would have to copy my old prepaired Windows from the USB
drive to C:\Windows1 on the new drive. Then boot into DOS
and delete C:\Windows and copy or rename C:\Windows1 into
C:\Windows on the new drive. Do you think this would work?
Probably all my software would not work since it all wants to
be in drive k: etc. -- I could copy the old Windows from USB
to i: on the new drive and copy all the other drives into their
places from USB and then tell c:\autoexec.bat etc to use the
i:\Windows to boot up instead of the new c:\Windows. Then I
could delete c:\Windows. Do you think this would work?
:wacko:

Will XXCopy work for me? Will XXClone? How can I partition
80Gigs?

So I have the problem that Windows 98 is on the i: drive
and so cloning seems to be difficult. My c: drive is not big
enough to do anything but boot up Windows.

Can you help me? Any ideas?

#58
E-66

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I've never heard of Drive2Drive, but XXCopy is a pretty well established utility. Have a look at this and see if it helps:

http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy10.htm

I don't use FDISK so I don't know what its limitations are. I've heard of a utility called Super FDISK but I don't know anything about it I use Norton's GDISK, which has no trouble with larger partitions.

#59
cannie

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Will XXCopy work for me? Will XXClone? How can I partition 80Gigs?
Can you help me? Any ideas?


The worst thing you may do is having Windows 98 only in one partition. A good partitioning of an 80 GB disk may be this (I presume doublebooting):

Main partition 1: drive C, only 3 GB, for Windows XP (without Program Files) and doubleboot root files.
Main partition 2: drive J, only 3 GB, for possible future experimental purposes, or to use it as working storage unit.

Extended partition:
Drive D, 6 GB for program Files (both for XP and Windows 98), and also for Windows 98 (clone).

Drive E, 3 GB for Windows 98 SE having only the OS, to rebuild this unit you may format it from any of the others and rebuild from scratch. This unit is the one for normal use and to be used for cloning into D and G.

Drive F, 3 GB for Win386.swp, pagefile.sys of XP, all temp folders, including Temporary Internet Files. All Win98 ones may be moved using COA2.exe, and the ones belonging to XP by editing the registry using Registry Crawler. No temp folder, history file, or cookies folder should be left on drive C. This way drive F may be formatted quick using Autoexec.bat at every start or Windows 98, or deleted using the command "del" if XP is used. Most viruses are avoided this way. This idea is copied from Linux.

Drive G: 25 GB, for My Documents (and also music, photos, etc) of Windows 98, leaving a link to it on the desktop of XP. The My documents folder of XP is too dependent of the OS and your docs are more secure this way. In this drive you may install also a second copy of Windows 98 (clone).

Drive H: 25 GB, for all Application Data of Windows 98, common to the OS installed on units C (clone), E (main) and G (clone). And also and essentially to keep .rar copies of both OS, folders and absolutely everything existing at the C, D and E files.

Drive I: 28 GB used to keep the install files of Windows 98 and also all install files of each and every apps used, both for Win98 and XP. As there is a lot of place left, you may keep here if you wish also a second copy of the backup files (from drive H) and My Documents (from drive G).

It is convenient to have a second, third or fourth HD into external cases and connected using USB2 only for storage purposes. If your USB works too slow you may install an IDE USB card and the speed increases about 50 times. It is easy to find and very cheap.

Of course you must keep 3 floppies to boot drives D, E or G in case of need, and also a floppy to boot XP (you only need to copy in it all C:\ root files, but never pagefile.sys) .

To clone the HD I think it is better not to clone the complete HD but the partitions, one by one, formatting previously the new HD using Partition Manager or Fdisk.exe under DOS. Afterwards you only have to copy-paste.

If you prefer copying using DOS, the freeware Xxcopy.exe is an excellent substitute for Xcopy.exe.

"Synchronize it!" and "Comparator Pro" are two Windows 98 programs which allow you to update your cloned HD without copying everything again but only what is changed.

BTW when you check your HD against the copy you always find some surprises: unwanted files introduced without your knowledge, or deleted or modified files that you were not aware of any change, in many cases altered via Internet without any advice.

HTH

Edited by cannie, 10 January 2009 - 07:14 PM.


#60
cannie

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Will XXCopy work for me? Will XXClone? How can I partition 80Gigs?
Can you help me? Any ideas?


Main partition 2: drive J, only 3 GB, for possible future experimental purposes, or to use it as working storage unit.


I forgot to say that when you create a second main partition in the same HD the one which is active takes letter C and the not active one takes the last letter. The Extended Partition keeps being always in the middle.

If you make active partition 2 instead of partition 1 the letter is reversed, that is, partition 1 is renamed with the last letter and partition 2 takes the letter C.

HTH

Edited by cannie, 12 January 2009 - 11:00 AM.


#61
submix8c

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@TheStarman -

Excellent info on your pages! Also found this -
http://www.goodells....iboot/index.htm
which acknowledges and links to your work.

Between you and them (among others), I have finally figured out how to transfer my old PC to my new PC ( multi-booting, of course ;) ). Still a work-in-progress, but well on the way now, with your help!

And Welcome to the Fray!!!!

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#62
jaclaz

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If you make active partition 2 instead of partition 1 the letter is reversed, that is, partition 1 is renamed with the last letter and partition 2 takes the letter C.

HTH

Unless you use Letter Assigner ;):
http://www.softpedia...-Assigner.shtml

Homepage is no more:
http://www.v72735.f2...ssig/index.html

but can still be found on the Wayback Machine:
http://web.archive.o...ssig/index.html

jaclaz

#63
MDGx

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If any1 cares:

In 98SE2ME options 1 + 2:
http://www.mdgx.com/9s2m/
To backup Windows 98 SE I use a DOS style batch file [CLONE98.BAT] and the DOS based tool XCLONE.EXE [free] which backs up the entire %windir% [usually C:\WINDOWS] folder + all subfolders + all files to any destination [requires editing the BAT] with 1 click.
Details here [the "BACKUP + RESTORE WINDOWS 98 SE" + "TESTING... CLONE98.PIF + 98RESTOR.BAT" sections]:
http://www.mdgx.com/9s2m/read1st.php
To restore Windows 98 SE from the backup [created by CLONE98.BAT] I use 98RESTOR.BAT which uses Win98SE's own MOVE.EXE native DOS mode tool.
These 2 BAT files must be executed from within Windows.
Some of these backup/restore operations require re-booting to native DOS mode.

HTH

#64
cannie

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Moved to the first post of this thread.

Edited by cannie, 29 March 2009 - 01:42 AM.


#65
cannie

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Moved to the first post of this thread.

Edited by cannie, 29 March 2009 - 01:42 AM.


#66
jaclaz

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[- The program Bootpart.exe, freeware, into a DOS boot floppy. You may download it from here:
http://www.brotherso...load-13101.html


Why not on it's homepage? :unsure:
http://www.winimage.com/bootpart.htm

A few (needed in my view) corrections you may want to consider:

- Delete the old mbr:
BOOTPART WIN98 BOOT:C:

This WON'T affect the MBR, it will only replace the CODE of the bootsector, previously set to the XP one that invokes NTLDR, to the Win98/DOS one that invokes IO.SYS.

BOOTPART WINXP BOOT:C:
....
BOOTPART WINNT BOOT:C:
....
BOOTPART WINNT BOOT:C:

Though in this specific context it doesn't make a difference, you should "make your mind" about using WINNT or WINXP parameter.

Just for the record, and this is not at all a critic to your post :), the method you describe is a bit "old-style" ;).

BOOTPART.EXE was born more than 15 years ago, and while at the time there were no alternatives, today using grub4dos and it's feature of directly chainloading system files, it is not necessary to fiddle with bootsectors.

jaclaz

#67
cannie

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The mentions to WINNT instead of WINXP were transcription errors with no consequences at all. I wrote it direct from my mind. I have edited the post and rectified it, and also substituted the mention to "delete" by "change the XP mbr", to make it easier the understanding of it to any reader.
I've also rectified the download adress.
This is the way I knew and so is how I did it. Well, in fact the essential thing is that it works perfect. But it is always good to know that there are better ways for doing things. I like learning.
Thank you for your help, jaclaz!

Edited by cannie, 07 February 2009 - 11:49 AM.


#68
jaclaz

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I have edited the post and rectified it, and also substituted the mention to "delete" by "change the XP mbr", to make it easier the understanding of it to any reader.


The point was that bootpart does NOT touch the MBR (Master Boot Record), it changes the PBR (Partition Boot Record) or bootsector.
The MBR is first sector of the whole hard disk or PHYSICAL DRIVE, CHS 0/0/1, LBA 1
The PBR is first sector of the active partition, usually first one, first sector of LOGICAL DRIVE, usually CHS 0/1/1, LBA 64.

Thank you for your help, jaclaz!


You are welcome, just trying to avoid possible misunderstandings of less experienced users. :)

jaclaz

#69
dencorso

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Although I've been messing with bootsectors for more years than I can remember, I confess I'd never seen them referred to as PBRs (Partition Boot Records), although it makes perfect sense, and creates a nice symmetry with MBRs.
Thanks, jaclaz! :thumbup I always learn something new by reading your posts!

#70
jaclaz

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Thanks, jaclaz! :thumbup I always learn something new by reading your posts!


I'll surprise you :unsure: with yet a new notion ;):
EMBR:
(Extended Master Boot Record)
http://www.ranish.com/part/primer.htm
or
EPBR:
(Extended Partition Boot Record):
http://www.goodells....boot/ptedit.htm

:hello:

jaclaz

#71
Ponch

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just trying to avoid possible misunderstandings of less experienced users. :)

So we could also replace all those "main" partitions used in this thread by "primary" partitions. :angel

#72
jaclaz

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just trying to avoid possible misunderstandings of less experienced users. :)

So we could also replace all those "main" partitions used in this thread by "primary" partitions. :angel

Yes we could :unsure:, it would be more accurate, though I have already seen the term "main" as used instead of "primary", as they are synonyms:
http://encarta.msn.c...00/primary.html
http://www.synonyms....synonym/primary

In any case it won't change the sense of the tutorial, the distinction between "main" (or "primary") and "logical unit of the extended partition" is clear enough :), while exchanging MBR with bootsector appears as more confusing, and particularly on a topic where a lot of people appear to have not a deep enough knowledge.

FYI:
http://neosmart.net/...or-not-the-mbr/

even the good MS guys sometimes happen to add to the confusion:

Just for the record, the misunderstanding could also be due to the fact that there is an article:
http://technet2.micr...3.mspx?mfr=true
http://technet.micro...y/cc749177.aspx

that misrepresents at first sight what bootsect.exe does, using the terms "master boot code" for the bootsector code: Bootsect Command-Line Options

Bootsect.exe updates the master boot code for hard disk partitions to switch between BOOTMGR and NTLDR. You can use this tool to restore the boot sector on your computer. This tool replaces FixFAT and FixNTFS.

Though accurate in the sense that it makes the distinction between the "boot code part" (which is changed by bootsect.exe) and the "volume data" (which is left unchanged by bootsect.exe) using the "master" adjective to describe the "boot code" probably creates the misunderstanding.


jaclaz

#73
cannie

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jacklaz, ponch and dencorso: I have edited again the tutorial collecting your contributions.
It is commonly said "Four eyes see more than two". In this case there are more than four.
I also added something concerning disk maintenance at the end of the post.
IMHO the important thing is making the tutorial useful for anyone who needs it.
Any other improvement will be welcome.
Thank you very much.

Edited by cannie, 08 February 2009 - 10:09 AM.


#74
jaclaz

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IMHO the important thing is making the tutorial useful for anyone who needs it.


Yes. :)

However my guess is that ponch won't like latest corrections :ph34r: :

he suggested to use "Primary" instead of "Main", which is correct, where does "Principal" come from? :blink:

jaclaz

#75
cannie

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IMHO the important thing is making the tutorial useful for anyone who needs it.


Yes. :)

However my guess is that ponch won't like latest corrections :ph34r: :

he suggested to use "Primary" instead of "Main", which is correct, where does "Principal" come from? :blink:

jaclaz

It is clear that infalibility is not my strong point. :realmad: I've rectified it.
Thanks again, jaclaz. :thumbup




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