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Clone easily Windows 98 and XP in the same computer.

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#126
cannie

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- Added paragraph G.- IF EVERYTHING FAILS.
I hope to contribute with this to the peace of mind of any common user who finds himself totally lost in the jungle of computing by explaining a free, fast and easy way to rebuild everything from scratch thanks to the same procedures used in this tutorial.

- Included in B.3 the way to delete all "Recycled" folders at Windows 98 startup to avoid loosing time while complying with the message that invites you to do it manually.

HTH.

Edited by cannie, 11 August 2009 - 11:41 AM.



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#127
cannie

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Added paragraph F3 .- HOW TO CREATE A DOUBLEBOOT CD SHOWING THE DOUBLEBOOT SCREEN DIRECT FROM THE CD.

HTH.

Edited by cannie, 16 August 2009 - 11:46 AM.


#128
glaurung

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If the goal is to have a small win9x install to use for emergency recovery and legacy software, and a main 2k/xp install to use for everything else, you don't have to muck around with installs on the D: drive despite what Microsoft says.

The reason MS says you can't install two OS's to the same drive is primarily because of incompatible file versions in Program Files, especially in Program Files\Common files.

So the easy, simple way I found to put both 9x and 2k or XP on drive C:, without any troubles, is this:

1. format drive C using FAT32.
2. Install 9x. Specify Win9x as the install directory.
3. Make an unattend.txt or winnt.sif file to automate 2k/XP install, and include the following in it:

[unattended]
ProgramFilesDir="c:\Program"
CommonProgramFilesDir="c:\Program\Common"
TargetPath=winNT

Now all the 9x common files are segregated from the NT common files, and you have achieved once again what MS claims is impossible: two fully funtional OS's installed on the same partition.

Granted I'm not switching back and forth between the os's on a daily basis, but it has worked fine for me so far.

The downsides I am aware of are 1) if you want software to run under both OS's, it will have to be installed twice (manually specifying the location the second time), and 2) you won't be able to run certain low-level disk software (like defrag) from win9x without killing the 2k/xp installation.

#129
rloew

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If the goal is to have a small win9x install to use for emergency recovery and legacy software, and a main 2k/xp install to use for everything else, you don't have to muck around with installs on the D: drive despite what Microsoft says.

The reason MS says you can't install two OS's to the same drive is primarily because of incompatible file versions in Program Files, especially in Program Files\Common files.

So the easy, simple way I found to put both 9x and 2k or XP on drive C:, without any troubles, is this:

1. format drive C using FAT32.
2. Install 9x. Specify Win9x as the install directory.
3. Make an unattend.txt or winnt.sif file to automate 2k/XP install, and include the following in it:

[unattended]
ProgramFilesDir="c:\Program"
CommonProgramFilesDir="c:\Program\Common"
TargetPath=winNT

Now all the 9x common files are segregated from the NT common files, and you have achieved once again what MS claims is impossible: two fully funtional OS's installed on the same partition.

Granted I'm not switching back and forth between the os's on a daily basis, but it has worked fine for me so far.

The downsides I am aware of are 1) if you want software to run under both OS's, it will have to be installed twice (manually specifying the location the second time), and 2) you won't be able to run certain low-level disk software (like defrag) from win9x without killing the 2k/xp installation.


Another approach to sharing the C: Drive is to install Windows 9X into a different directory (C:\Win9x in Glaurung's method above).
When the Computer reboots, boot to DOS. Rename the PROGRA~1 file to PROG9X~1.
In the Registry and in WIN9X\SETUP.INI replace all occurances of the followings:

PROGRA~1 with PROG9X~1
"Program Files" with "Prog9XX Files" (replace whether quoted or not)

Continue Installation.

Windows 9X should now be installed entirely in directories that don't conflict with Windows XP.

This approach breaks a lot of defaults so extensive use of this installation of Windows 9X is not recommended.
Ye who enter my domain. Beware! Lest you become educated in the mysteries of the universe and suffer forever from the desire to know more.

#130
cannie

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Maybe it is convenient to say that, even when you can install both OS in the same main partition, if you have an XP cloned second primary partition you need to copy/paste Windows 98 into it in order to use it from any of both.

You can avoid the need of such a double copy by installing Windows 98 in any logical drive into the extended partition. This way, after building the mbr/pbr for both XP units you only need to keep the Windows 98 boot files and the option in the boot.ini file in the root of both primary partitions in order to use the Microsoft doubleboot screen.

Doing it this way you can even delete all files into both main partitions without formatting any of both, and defragment them afterwards, before rebuilding both XP OS from a clean copy previously saved into any unit of the extended partition, or into a .rar or .zip file saved on CD.

Remember that you should never format any primary partition while using Windows 98 from the extended partition! You would destroy the mbr/pbr and the computer would not work any more, no matter if all files have been perfectly rebuilt.

If it ever happens to you, as it once happened to me, you must rebuild the boot sectors as described in the first post (reboot using the DOS boot diskette and run "Repair.bat").

HTH

Edited by cannie, 10 September 2009 - 10:46 AM.


#131
dencorso

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Well, while all those methods involving a single physical disk (HDD) are quite ingenious, all of them have downsides.
That's why I think the safest way to doubleboot XP and 98SE is to have each on it's own primary partition, each independently bootable, each in its own HDD. And while I nowadays use Grub4DOS to select which I do boot, it can also be done without any boot manager, by using the BIOS ability to logically invert master and slave, that is to say, to set which is the primary boot disk. As each OS is installed in a fully independent way, you can blow any of them seven-ways-to-sunday and still remain able to boot the other, and from it to deploy a previously saved known-to-be-good image of the one you just messed-up beyond all recognition, and be back to a fully blown double-booting machine in less than 30 min. Of course, this way also has a downside: you must have two HDDs to do it. Then again, it has the added advantage that you may partition both HDD's with at least two partitions: each HDD then has a different OS in the bootable partition, backed up by full imaging, and both HDD's have a second identical non-bootable data partition, backed-up incrementally (with XXCOPY) every day. I think this is as safe as you can get, and quite simple to implement, too.

#132
jaclaz

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Well, while all those methods involving a single physical disk (HDD) are quite ingenious, all of them have downsides.
....
That's why I think the safest way to doubleboot XP and 98SE is to have each on it's own primary partition, each independently bootable, each in its own HDD.
....


Or use, as it has been done successfully for more than 15 years, a small FAT16 boot partition (with boot files) and any number of logical volumes inside Extended, one for each OS.....:whistle:

jaclaz

#133
dencorso

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Or use, as it has been done successfully for more than 15 years, a small FAT16 boot partition (with boot files) and any number of logical volumes inside Extended, one for each OS.....:whistle:

Nothing against it. I know it works great. But, then again, no solution using just one HDD protects one against hardware (read HDD) failures, while the two HDDs solution does. It's as easy to recover one of the HDD to the same physical medium as it is when one needs to substitute it, either because of a hardware failure or to get more space (upgrading to a bigger HDD). ;)

#134
cannie

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Remember that you should never format any primary partition while using Windows 98 from the extended partition! You would destroy the mbr/pbr and the computer would not work any more, no matter if all files have been perfectly rebuilt.


Modified paragraph C4 of the first post to include this advice.

#135
jaclaz

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Remember that you should never format any primary partition while using Windows 98 from the extended partition! You would destroy the mbr/pbr and the computer would not work any more, no matter if all files have been perfectly rebuilt.


Modified paragraph C4 of the first post to include this advice.

To be picky not entirely accurate.

If you only FORMAT the MBR won't be touched at all.
If you FORMAT from Win9x (please read DOS) the PBR of the FORMATted partition will be replaced by the Win9x/DOS one, invoking IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS.
If you FORMAT first active primary partition of first disk you will also need to copy back to it the boot files, typically:
DOS/Win9x:
  • IO.SYS
  • MSDOS.SYS
  • COMMAND.COM
NT/2K/XP/2003:
  • NTLDR
  • NTDETECT.COM
  • BOOT.INI
Vista/2008/7:
  • BOOTMGR
  • \boot\BCD
And, if needed use BOOTPART to fix/repair the bootsector or PBR.

In other words, FDISK changes the MBR, FORMAT changes the PBR.

jaclaz

#136
cannie

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In other words, FDISK changes the MBR, FORMAT changes the PBR.

jaclaz

OK.
The text has been corrected in the first post.
Thank you!

#137
cannie

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no solution using just one HDD protects one against hardware (read HDD) failures, while the two HDDs solution does


Applying this idea to the XP cloning procedure described at paragraph C of the first post, it would be excellent if your hardware allows you to create the XP2 clone into a primary partition of a second HD in order to switch to it in case of failure of the first HD.

Edited by cannie, 16 September 2009 - 05:41 AM.


#138
cannie

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Being very interesting for any user who has two HD units, I've included the precedent suggestion of yours into the paragraph C4 of the first post.

Thank you once more, dencorso!

#139
dencorso

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You're most welcome, cannie!
BTW, perhaps you might add a note in post #1 regarding the fact that XXCOPY FREEWARE v.2.96.5 is the very last version of XXCOPY that works OK with Win 9x/ME (I originally posted this info here).

#140
cannie

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Hi, dencorso!

A very helpful program for any Windows user. :thumbup

I've included your suggestion in the C4 paragraph of the first post, just under the precedent one.

Cheers.

Edited by cannie, 18 September 2009 - 09:20 AM.


#141
cannie

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Modified paragraph G.- WHAT TO DO IF EVERYTHING FAILS, to beware against the possibility of omitting the hidden boot files when rebuilding the primary partitions.
It may happen very easily because the hidden files are not shown by the XP explorer unless you configure it properly, and if you don't see you can't copy them.

HTH

#142
cannie

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Paragraph C4 has been rewritten into C7 and C8 to include the use of Deltree.exe under Windows XP and in order to a better understanding.

HTH

#143
cannie

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Modified paragraph A to include the option of cloning Windows 98 not only into a different unit into the extended partition but also to another primary partition by simply using XXCOPY.EXE, introducing also several improvements in the redaction of the text for a better understanding of it.



HTH

Edited by cannie, 27 September 2009 - 02:40 AM.


#144
cannie

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Taking into consideration that the boot CD is only used when the OS fails, the F3 option of building a boot CD using the doubleboot screen has been removed because F1 and F2 options are considerably more secure.

Paragraph A has been rebuilt for better results, and also the redaction of the initial paragraph has been corrected and improved.

HTH

Edited by cannie, 01 October 2009 - 01:37 AM.


#145
cannie

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Rebuilt the last paragraph "What to do if everything fails" to correct some detected omissions which could mean problems for newbies.

Also improved the text in several other points for a better help to users.

HTH

Edited by cannie, 04 October 2009 - 01:37 AM.


#146
EyesOfARaven

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I've been experimenting with using archiving utilities for backing up and Does anyone know of a utility that can save and restore a copy of the MBR, preferably one that works in DOS or Windows? On one PC, I'm using the 2K bootloader. The one I'm working on will use Grub when I get it finished.
Rick

Why backup and restore the MBR when the MBR is the same on all Windows 98 installations (or for that matter, all DOS-based Windows). Run "fdisk /mbr" to write a new MBR, and you could omit the DOS boot files from the image to save a bit of space, and make your boot media, whatever it may be, DOS 7.10, and thusly doing a sys C: or what-have-you will put 98-compatible DOS on the disk. You probably would want to still backup autoexec.bat and config.sys, but this would save you from putting command.com, msdos.sys, and io.sys into your archive (not much space saved, but it's something).

Edit: I didn't read that you were using non-DOS MBRs, but this process will work for anyone who isn't.

Edited by EyesOfARaven, 04 October 2009 - 06:29 PM.


#147
dencorso

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I've been experimenting with using archiving utilities for backing up and Does anyone know of a utility that can save and restore a copy of the MBR, preferably one that works in DOS or Windows? On one PC, I'm using the 2K bootloader. The one I'm working on will use Grub when I get it finished.


Sorry, Rick, I somehow missed that post of yours. :blushing:
I use DIY DataRecovery's MBRTool. It does what you want, but does not use a raw format, so you cannot use the saved archives to manually put the MBR back, should you ever want to do so. But it can also save the whole of the 1st track of every HDD (up to four), which is handy.
However, there is more to save, so I also save raw images of the MBR and of each MBR-like structures in the Extended Partition chain. I do that with WinHex, but your favorite hexeditor should do it as well.
As for the boot manager, don't go over to Grub, go to Grub4DOS instead, it's much more poweful and versatile. Please do read the Grub4DOS Guide to learn more about it.

@EyesOfARaven: Because fdisk/MBR restores the MBR's boot code, not the actual Partition Table, which contains the addresses of every partition in an HDD, and are unique to each installation, nor the Windows Disk Signature, which is unique to each HDD, and used by the NT-family OSes to assignthe drive letters, and thus of interest for those of us who multiboot with XP or 2k.

#148
jaclaz

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There are N programs capable of backing up/restoring a RAW bootsector or MBR.

Under DOS DEBUG is as good as any other. (there are scripts for it).

One of the "forgotten" pages with some useful things for DOS lovers:
http://web.archive.o...wnloads/rec.htm

If you know what you are doing:
http://www.partition...m/utilities.htm

Under windows, MBRFIX, or MBRWIZ (dos version also available) or HDHACKER or dsfo/dsfi of the DSFOK toolkit among tens of other ones do it allright.

jaclaz

#149
CharlotteTheHarlot

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http://web.archive.o...wnloads/rec.htm

Nice work as usual. :) I just updated Post#28 with that page you found. It has working downloads directly from the web.archive.org archives of the old dos.li5.org site. Anyone who still needs it can grab SrcTools and some other stuff as of this writing.

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#150
jaclaz

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I just updated Post#28 with that page you found.


There are some issues with the Forum software, that kind of link does not work right now.

See here:
http://www.msfn.org/...r...19.html&hl=
http://www.msfn.org/...19-page-15.html

These kinds of links appear to be the only ones working:
http://www.msfn.org/board/create-easily-second-win98-xp-same-computer-t118623.html&st=27
http://www.msfn.org/board/create-easily-second-win98-xp-same-computer-t118623-page-27.html
http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=118623&st=27
http://www.msfn.org/...e....html&st=27
http://www.msfn.org/...23-page-27.html
http://www.msfn.org/...o...18623&st=27


jaclaz




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