[wimb]

Hallo ilko,

Congratulations with your WinSetupFromUSB_0-1A Program.

It looks fine, and I did three runs with it, and could Install XP in all cases.

What I miss is the action of MkMigrateInf2.cmd to make the USB-stick DriveLetter U:
So now my first install had shifted drive letters for the 2nd and 3rd partition.

The menu entries in GRUB4DOS menu.lst at the moment do not allow Unattended Install.
On Reboot again TXT-mode Setup is automatically selected.
I reverted the entries and then everything went OK.
At best the Continue+Start XP entry should occur as first line in menu.lst.

Another wish would be the possibility to Exclude LANG / WIN98 folders from copy to USB-stick.
And Display and Edit of XP Setup Parameters in winnt.sif + useraccount in $OEM$ folder.
It would also be nice if winnt.sif and $OEM$ would be User selectable.
Now everything must be ready in the XP-Source.
Some people may want to Select the option of Attended Setup at the moment of Install from USB.

But all these wishes are may be interesting for future developments.
For now the program is running rather well.

The message of No enough Space is a bit Confusing when Copy to USB-stick is Ready.
It will propably be due to my test stick of only 1 GB but in most cases Ready would be a better message.

I forgot to mention that the presetup.cmd is giving No Disk Exception Message (4x) for my CardReader.
Pressing 4x Continue makes XP Setup Resume.

The search for the USB-drive tagfile can be first in a limited Drive-range, like for ren_fold.cmd
That solves the problem.

Thanks for this program.

Succes,

wimb

[ilko_t]

Thanks Wimb, this was very helpful

What I miss is the action of MkMigrateInf2.cmd to make the USB-stick DriveLetter U:
So now my first install had shifted drive letters for the 2nd and 3rd partition.

It's on purpose. I prefer to watch USB drive letter as indicator if something goes wrong and USB disk is recognized as first, as you know then boot files goes on it etc..
I had cases, when even with rdummy.sys, my USB disk was detected as fixed, because it was the last among many mass storage drivers to load. Had to move it to BusExtenders, where it seems to load fine.
The shifted drive letters are easily fixed later on from Disk management, which causes no harm to the installation.
Still a good idea to include it, just in case someone prefers to use it.

Quote

The menu entries in GRUB4DOS menu.lst at the moment do not allow Unattended Install

Haven't had tome to fix that. I prefer not to change order as it breaks the logic 1) then 2) ..., but rather use grub4dos options to set default entry once TXT mode entry was executed. Added to to-do list.

Quote

Another wish would be the possibility to Exclude LANG / WIN98 folders from copy to USB-stick.

No plans for this There is a beautiful program Nlite, which does this job. Source is used and copied as it is prepared. Messing with the source is beyond the scope of the program.

And Display and Edit of XP Setup Parameters in winnt.sif + useraccount in $OEM$ folder

Ditto Source is copied as it is. Same applies for winnt.sif, which is amended ONLY with the entries, allowing installation from USB. NLite and other similar programs are to be used if one wants to manipulate his source and unattended file. Same for $OEM$- if it's there- it's copied.
Additionally- many people just want to install the XP source they have from USB, without answering too much questions and presented with information, which means nothing to them. I assume, that whoever knows what winnt.sif is, he should know or at least capable to find what to edit, in order to customize his installation. This is not job for the program. If you remember we have discussed that before on PM

Quote

For now the program is running rather well

Good to read

Quote

The message of No enough Space is a bit Confusing when Copy to USB-stick is Ready.
It will propably be due to my test stick of only 1 GB but in most cases Ready would be a better message.

Good catch, I never run out of disk space lately as I was using USB hard disk. Upon completion I will reset all checkboxes and Windows source, then do the size check. Thanks.

Quote

I forgot to mention that the presetup.cmd is giving No Disk Exception Message (4x) for my CardReader.
Pressing 4x Continue makes XP Setup Resume.

The search for the USB-drive tagfile can be first in a limited Drive-range, like for ren_fold.cmd

This is an issue with BTS drivers pack presetup.cmd., which I prefer to resolve in other way- by opening a ticket in their forum. The program simply adds a few lines to the presetup.cmd, which already exists. Thus the difference between ren_fold.cmd and presetup.cmd.
But bringing this up reminded me that I forgot to fully cover the case when presetup.cmd doesn't exist.

Thanks for the detailed feedback

[wimb]

ilko_t, on Jul 13 2008, 06:59 PM, said:

Thanks Wimb, this was very helpful

Quote

Another wish would be the possibility to Exclude LANG / WIN98 folders from copy to USB-stick.

No plans for this There is a beautiful program Nlite, which does this job. Source is used and copied as it is prepared. Messing with the source is beyond the scope of the program.

If you just don't copy LANG / WIN98 folders to USB-stick,
then I don't think you can speak of "Messing with the source",
whereas this statement is more applicable when using nLite.

[ilko_t]

wimb, on Jul 13 2008, 10:42 AM, said:

If you just don't copy LANG / WIN98 folders to USB-stick,
then I don't think you can speak of "Messing with the source",
whereas this statement is more applicable when using nLite.

It's removing of functionality, which is supposed to be done while messing with the source with NLite, and not by a program, which idea is to transfer already prepared source to USB disk, and make it ready for installation from USB
In other words I'd prefer to keep it as simple as possible, requiring user to prepare it's source in advance, using external tools such as NLite.

[wimb]

ilko_t, on Jul 13 2008, 11:34 PM, said:

In other words I'd prefer to keep it as simple as possible, requiring user to prepare it's source in advance, using external tools such as NLite.

Now you force people to use a tool like nLite, and go through all the pages,
just for specifying the 8 essential parameters required for Unattended XP Setup.
Besides nLite needs .NET Framework 2.0 to be installed.

How do you help the people who don't work with nLite and
would like to specify their 8 XP Setup Parameters for Unattended Setup in a simple dialoque ?

Quote

This is an issue with BTS drivers pack presetup.cmd., which I prefer to resolve in other way- by opening a ticket in their forum. The program simply adds a few lines to the presetup.cmd, which already exists. Thus the difference between ren_fold.cmd and presetup.cmd.

Nowadays BTS presetup.cmd has a line to delete setupold, so it is not needed to do this twice.

This post has been edited by wimb: 14 July 2008 - 07:44 AM

[bledd]

wow, will try this out later on

thanks for all the hard work

[jaclaz]

wimb, on Jul 14 2008, 06:00 AM, said:

Now you force people to use a tool like nLite, and go through all the pages,
just for specifying the 8 essential parameters required for Unattended XP Setup.

Wimb, maybe you are making it a bit heavier than needed.

Noone is forcing people to do anything, if people does not want to use this GUI tool they can use your more featured .cmd.

There is a possibility, that you seem not to take into account, that one already has a perfectly lited, tweaked and tuned up source (these steps made with whatever methods) and simply wants to use that source to install it from USB.

As I see it, this project is somewhat different from your USB_Multiboot, it is not a GUI translation of it, just a simple, honest, plain, "Install from XP USB" GUI app, it is not intended to compete or replicate the already working, full featured batches.

You may notice that most of the (very few) reported problems with your batches were "tracked down" to the user having made a wrong or inappropriate choice among the several possibilities the USB_Multiboot offers, if you remamber I even (frienldy ) once accused you of being caught by "featuritis"....

jaclaz

[wimb]

jaclaz, on Jul 14 2008, 03:46 PM, said:

There is a possibility, that you seem not to take into account, that one already has a perfectly lited, tweaked and tuned up source (these steps made with whatever methods) and simply wants to use that source to install it from USB.

I am quite well aware of this, but I was just thinking of the people,
who would like to specify their 8 parameters for Unattended XP Setup in a simple way.

In general I agree with you and may be my idea is useful for future developments.

[tap52384]

This is awesome! This is always something that I wanted to do, especially since I assume that installation from USB is not only more convenient, but faster than installing from DVD, or am I wrong? In any case, an nLite collaboration would be cool as well, to be able to nLite XP and then install it from USB!

[ilko_t]

wimb, on Jul 13 2008, 09:00 PM, said:

Now you force people to use a tool like nLite, and go through all the pages,
just for specifying the 8 essential parameters required for Unattended XP Setup.
Besides nLite needs .NET Framework 2.0 to be installed.

How do you help the people who don't work with nLite and
would like to specify their 8 XP Setup Parameters for Unattended Setup in a simple dialoque ?

Jaclaz answered better than I could

wimb, on Jul 13 2008, 09:00 PM, said:

Nowadays BTS presetup.cmd has a line to delete setupold, so it is not needed to do this twice.

Are you sure one will be using source, prepared with the nowadays BTS DP base- I wasn't
The line doesn't hurt, and was easier for me to add it anyway, instead of checking if it's already in presetup.cmd. I can fix it quickly if you think it's a problem.

Checking sizes upon completion if fixed now, decided to uncheck all the check boxes and reset windows source when copy is completed.
Presetup.cmd is now properly created if it was not in the source. Will upload new version when a few more bugs are fixed.
Grub4dos unattended- this is a bit tricky.

default /default
fallback X

title Text mode....
....
savedefault fallback

title Gui mode
....

The thing is that lines are added to menu.lst, and I don't know what X will be, could scan for it, but that will take time to program. Besides, the above entries are created in pairs for each Windows source added, although the second entry (GUI mode) could be common for all the Windows sources as it will point to the same NTLDR/BOOT.INI.
Need to think how to organize menu.lst or reorganize it upon completion.
It may be easier just to include a few lines in ReadMe.txt- if you want the second part of Setup to launch automatically after first part is executed then....

This post has been edited by ilko_t: 14 July 2008 - 11:42 AM

[jaclaz]

@Wimb
@ilko_t
Why not a SEPARATE Auto-it .script "The8Steps4unattended.exe" ?

ilko_t, on Jul 14 2008, 07:32 PM, said:

Grub4dos unattended- this is a bit tricky.

default /default
fallback X

title Text mode....
....
savedefault fallback

title Gui mode
....

The thing is that lines are added to menu.lst, and I don't know what X will be, could scan for it, but that will take time to program. Besides, the above entries are created in pairs for each Windows source added, although the second entry (GUI mode) could be common for all the Windows sources as it will point to the same NTLDR/BOOT.INI.
Need to think how to organize menu.lst or reorganize it upon completion.
It may be easier just to include a few lines in ReadMe.txt- if you want the second part of Setup to launch automatically after first part is executed then....

Can you explain better the problem?

jaclaz

[ilko_t]

jaclaz, on Jul 14 2008, 10:59 AM, said:

@Wimb
@ilko_t
Why not a SEPARATE Auto-it .script "The8Steps4unattended.exe" ?

@Wimb-
I'll try to explain in details the way I see all this.
The project started as alternative method of installing Windows from USB. The known ones are winnt from DOS and winnt32 or it's variants as PE plugins, started from PE environment. As such alternative, it was rather interesting from experimenting and inventing point of view, rather than a practical sollution.
It turned out to be practical since Asus EeePC appeared and the interest boomed. Why- most of these users had no idea what BartPE or winnt32.exe is, neither what unattended install or winnt.sif is. Not to mention building BartPE, integrating mass storage drivers etc. They just needed one-off installation of their Windows source, whatever it is (slimmed down, unattended, with extra programs/addons...), from USB, with a few mouse clicks or a few answers, in the way they are used to- as if it was started from CD.
As this alternative method got polished/sophisticated and popularity increased, more and more experienced users became interested. And you have done A LOT for this to happen.

Following these thoughts I assume there are 2 types of 'potential users':

1) Who know what unattended (and slimming down or adding drivers/programs) Windows source is, and presumably know at least one of the popular methods to perform that:
http://www.nliteos.com/
http://winfuture.de/xpisobuilder3_en
XPPRO_CD\SUPPORT\TOOLS\DEPLOY.CAB\SetupMGR.exe
XPPRO_CD\SUPPORT\TOOLS\DEPLOY.CAB\ref.chm + Notepad.exe-->winnt.sif
http://unattended.ms.../unattended.xp/ + Notepad.exe-->winnt.sif
www.google.com --> 'unattended windows setup'
2) Ones who have no clue what the above is, and want install from USB with a few mouse clicks, without being bothered with extra information or questions.

In case of 1)- Is there a point providing this functionality, overlapping famous and well documented/supported tools?
In case of 2)- Is it the time to go into that curve? Is he interested at all in these options or simply wants to install his Windows the way he knows?
Even if he is interested, I'd prefer to include the information in a ReadMe file and point to the right direction(above), rather than implementing this functionality in the program itself, overloading the main interface with checkboxes or messages.
Simple displaying winnt.sif entries I find useless for novices, as those entries also have to be explained what they mean with their alternative values.
Once he knows how many things could be done to his source, the problematic 8 entries will not be the only ones wanted. Same applies for LANG folder or CMPNENTS for MCE or Tablet, which absence could lead to fatal errors during or after installation, if one had already enough new information and on the next message chooses randomly yes/no, without reading a word. Believe me, this is what happens most of the time.

If the point to display winnt.sif is to use as reminder to the experienced user what is going to be used, I may add a button or message box "Do you want to display winnt.sif" and launch "notepad.exe winnt.sif". Contrary- we have there important entries, curious people according to practice and Murphy's law tend to mess exactly where they are not supposed to. Keeping out of focus winnt.sif, which performs the most important steps to be USB setup successful, is preferred.
As time goes by, a tab "advanced settings" could be added. For now I don't have the willingness and the spare time to do that, my mind simply refuses to think about concentrating on this subject. I'd rather spend more time on simplifying and automating install from PE environment, finding a way to protect files during Text mode in 2000/2003 versions, or making x64 version of rdummy.sys, than implement features, which are already well covered by other means. Don't forget that XP/2003 days are going to an end as well. Within a few years all this will be buried.
In addition- the program is run from normal Windows environment, and your toolbox(Internet, Notepad, Help files, NLite...) is full. If it was in PE environment, where tools are limited, then yes, it could be good option.
Another point, which is rather personal- I am an old schooler, prefer simplicity, small sizes and information thrown at user limited to the bare minimum. Hence my opinion what is a key factor a program to be successful and easily accepted.

[ilko_t]

jaclaz, on Jul 14 2008, 10:59 AM, said:

Can you explain better the problem?

The thing is once Text mode is selected in menu.lst, on next launch of grub4dos the second part(GUI) to be default, and eventually fully unattended installation performed.

Menu.lst is created dynamically and entries are added to an existing one, which if not present is created. On first run of the program one may not choose to add Windows source. Thus the entries number 0-3 for example will be occupied by Bart PE, Vista setup etc.
Next run- add windows source. This will add the pair as entry #4 and 5:

title First part (Text mode) of $version setup
chainloader /$win_nt$.~bt/setupldr.bin
savedefault fallback

title Second part (GUI mode) of $version setup
root...
chainloader /ntldr

In order to set fallback entry AND set it default I need to know that last entry, for the GUI mode what number in menu.lst is. Why.

What came in my head so far is to separate the entries by seeking for 'title', so everything between two 'title' is an entry. Then look in this entry if string 'ntldr' is present, ignoring the commented lines, and count what number it is. Then set this number as a fallback.

The problem is when a new Windows source is added to the USB disk. This will add another pair of entries.
The first entry will deffer as setupldr.bin will be in another folder, but the second entry will differ against the similar one only in it's title, where $version is used.

Creation of second entry (GUI mode) could be omitted, using one for all Windows sources, not adding for which version of Windows it is as that's only for guidance. But in this case menu.lst may end up like:

Quote

First part(Text Mode) of Windows XP professional
Second part(GUI Mode) of Windows Setup + Start it for a first time
First part(Text Mode) of Windows 2003 server
First part(Text Mode) of Windows 2000 standard
Start UBCD4Win from partition 3

I wanted to avoid that, as if one wants to install say Windows 2000, he'd expect second part to be below the first part, which is why I add them in pairs:

Quote

First part(Text Mode) of Windows XP professional
Second part(GUI Mode) of Windows XP professional Setup + Start it for a first time
First part(Text Mode) of Windows 2003 server
Second part(GUI Mode) of Windows 2003 server Setup + Start it for a first time
First part(Text Mode) of Windows 2000 standard
Second part(GUI Mode) of Windows 2000 standard Setup + Start it for a first time
Start UBCD4Win from partition 3

Now if first variant is better- with only one entry for the GUI mode, then will have to seek in menu.lst if 'Second part(GUI Mode) of Windows Setup + Start it for a first time' is present, and if not- add a new one.
If the second variant, with pairs, is better, then it's tricky, which entry should be set as fallback entry?

Another variant as I am thinking more on this- no need to use 'savedefault fallback', but rather 'savedefault X' and still use pairs. When adding new entries the program will count what number(Y) in menu.lst
"First part(Text Mode) of Windows 2000 standard" is, and set "savedefault X+1".

All the variants assume that entries above those lines are not deleted, or everything will get messed up. Thinking of that, wouldn't be easier and safer just to include in the ReadMe brief information how to be set up manually? So one will be aware what to change if wants GUI mode to be selected automatically, and if decides to delete entries.
I am puzzled
What do you guys think?

[ilko_t]

tap52384, on Jul 14 2008, 10:21 AM, said:

This is awesome! This is always something that I wanted to do, especially since I assume that installation from USB is not only more convenient, but faster than installing from DVD, or am I wrong? In any case, an nLite collaboration would be cool as well, to be able to nLite XP and then install it from USB!

Hope you like it
It is considerably faster, especially when using fast USB stick or hard disk and your BIOS supports USB boot in full 2.0 speed. In some cases NTFS is reported to perform times faster than FAT16/32, I guess this happens when Text mode setup tries to delete files from the write-protected USB disk and have no further explanation why exactly.
Keep in mind that not all BIOSes support boot from NTFS formatted USB disks, and NTFS on USB stick may 'wear it' sooner, depending on it's quality and usage.

[wimb]

ilko_t, on Jul 15 2008, 02:26 AM, said:

I'd rather spend more time on simplifying and automating install from PE environment,
......
Don't forget that XP/2003 days are going to an end as well. Within a few years all this will be buried.

Thanks for your extended reply.
I agree with you, that edit and display of XP Setup parameters can be part of future developments,
and that it is not necessary to change your program now for these options.

My approach in the project corresponds very well to yours, and at the moment I am also very interested in
the possibilities of Install of XP from PE Environment, which allows FREE choice of XP Source on any drive.

I don't think that XP will be buried very soon, unless there will come a complete new Windows OS,
which is better and smaller than Windows XP,
with e.g. SYSTEM and UserData well separated on different partitions and
build in Ghost-like SYSTEM Backup and Restore posibility.
The popular ASUS Eee PC proves that we are moving towards smaller and less complicated systems,
which are easy to manage.

This post has been edited by wimb: 16 July 2008 - 03:57 AM

[jaclaz]

@ilko_t

Just some of my "semi-random" ideas, mind you, but couldn't this be done "internally"?

Quote

******************************************************************************
*** Newly implemented operators `&&' and `||' ***
******************************************************************************

This implementation is very simple. It does not handle operator nesting.

Usage of `&&':

command1 && command2

Description:

If command1 returns true, then command2 will be executed.

Usage of `||':

command1 || command2

Description:

If command1 returns false, then command2 will be executed.

Examples:

is64bit && default 0
is64bit || default 1

Can we assume that a given file will be on the internal hard disk (and never on the USB stick) only after completion of the text mode setup?

Can we (deftly ) combine the above with the "default FILE" command:

Quote

******************************************************************************
*** New Syntax for the DEFAULT/SAVEDEFAULT Commands ***
******************************************************************************

In addition to the original usage of "default NUM" and "default saved", now
there is a new usage of "default FILE", like this:

default (hd0,0)/default

Note that FILE must have a valid DEFAULT file format. A sample DEFAULT file
is included in the release. You may copy it to wherever you like, but you
should avoid modifying its content manually. The DEFAULT file may be used
in this way:

(1) First, you should copy a default file with valid format to somewhere in
your operating system.

(2) Secondly, you should use the "default FILE" command of GRUB to announce
the use of FILE as our new default file for being written by "savedefault".

(3) Then, you may use "savedefault" command to save the desired entry number
into this new default file.

(4) OK, at next boot, you may read the saved entry number by using the same
"default FILE" command as mentioned in above (2).

And with the "configfile FILE" directive?

i.e.:
1) We have the normal "menu.lst" in root, it contains only entries of this type:

title Win2k install
default /2kdefault
find /tagfile && setdefault 1
configfile /Win2k.lst

title XP install
default /xpdefault
find /tagfile && setdefault 1
configfile /xp.lst

....

2) the configfile of each OS have only two entries:

title text mode
WHATEVER IS NEEDED FOR TEXT MODE
boot

title GUI mode
WHATEVER IS NEEDED FOR GUI MODE
boot

In other words, each configfile only has two entries, 0 for text mode and 1 for GUI mode.

Would something like this work?

jaclaz

[ilko_t]

@jaclaz

Thanks, that's very good idea.
Using tag file could be tricky- I can't think of any file in root, which gets renamed or deleted after install is completed. If it's in a folder, then may be yes, but what about people changing their windows or program files folders...

May this is a solution, even though we are getting into too many submenus:
menu.lst:

title Windows Install
configfile /windows.lst
savedefault

windows.lst:

default /windefault

title Text mode Windows XP
chainloader ....
savedafault 1

title GUI mode Windows XP
chainloader /ntldr
savedefault

title Text mode Windows 2003
chainloader ....
savedafault 1

title GUI mode Windows 2003
chainloader /ntldr
savedefault

All Text mode entries will make default the second entry, even though it's name is for XP, but it loads the same NTLDR/BOOT.INI.
Then the second entry will open BOOT.INI entries, which makes one more menu. I will try to put all that and see how it feels when using it.

[Raboo]

I agree with ilko_t, keep it simple.
All I want to do is able to install my nlited + driverpacks Windows XP from a USB Stick exactly as I would from a CD/DVD drive with no changes or as little changes as possible. No extra options or such..

Nice work ilko_t and everyone who contributed to and inspired this project.. Keep up the good work.

/Raboo

[Raboo]

I'm stuck
I managed to create the a bootable USB-stick with windows XP and BartPE.
I'm using my friends asus eee.
I get into the grub4dos menu and select the first line... it did not work, it simply reloads the grub4dos menu.
The second line, part 2 of windows setup simply won't work without the first part, it says no OS basically when I try it.
The third line, BartPE worked...

Any ideas whats wrong and or how I can be more verbose?

/Raboo

[ilko_t]

Can you attach your log file:

ilko_t said:

- detailed log file is created in the folder, where program is executed from. Use it for troubleshooting. Upon next execution if log file is found, it's compressed in MS cab format, removed to BACKUPS folder and renamed with current DATE/TIME stamp.

as well as screenshot of contents or result of dir X: of USB stick root directory, and contents of menu.lst again in USB root.
Did you run the program multiple times or everything was done in one go?

This post has been edited by ilko_t: 05 August 2008 - 03:36 PM