[TheWalrus]

So I've been happily using my shiny 1TB Samsung SpinPoint for some three months until I found out some bad sectors yesterday. Yuck.
I did some reading about the whole thing (not like I did not run into them as much as ten years ago, but still) and still not sure whether they are definitely physically "dead" or it's fixable. I don't think it's a problem of a shock or something because noone even touched the whole PC ever since I installed it - so under that logic I'd GUESS there is a chance to fix it _somehow_. BUT I also read that modern drives have some amount of spare sectors that aren't usually used, but other sectors that are found to be unreadable or otherwise "malfunctioning" are remapped into them, and when disc runs out of there spares, then and not before scandisk or other diagnostic tools report bad sectors somewhere.
So what do you think?

[twig123]

Every drive has bad sectors, however, like you stated... they are excluded from the usable area before it is shipped. As long as it is not a whole bunch... you could do a low-level format (should be able to get a utility for this from the Drive manufacturer) to exclude the bad sectors from the usable area.

if there are several bad sectors, it could indicate that the drive is failing and I would suggest that you get it replaced or RMA'd (if it is still under warranty)

[TheWalrus]

Well, I wouldn't dare to say discs are shipped with some already bad sectors, but..
So far there is 20kB worth of bad sectors as reported by chkdsk. I am not entirely sure how many sectors does that mean, but it doesn't grow. I wouldn't normally find out at all if I didn't feel like doing a check "just for the hell of it".

This was reported by the tool provided for this disc:

[SELF DIAGNOSTIC (ESTOOL v2.11 )]
Model Name : SAMSUNG HD103UJ
Rom Revision : 1AA01112
Serial Number : S13PJ1KQ507857
Drive Size : 953868MB (LBA : 1953523055)
Start Time : Thu Sep 25 03:09:47 2008


-------------------------------------------------
Test Loop Number : 1/1
-------------------------------------------------
>> READ DMA : Testing... Pass !
>> CHECK S.M.A.R.T. : Testing... Pass !
>> SPIN DOWN / UP : Testing... Pass !
>> SIMPLE SURFACE SCAN : Testing... Pass !
>> WRITE VERIFY : Testing... Pass !
>> RANDOM SURFACE SCAN : Testing... Pass !
>> READ SURFACE SCAN : Testing...
Error : LBA 57357683
Error : LBA 57357684
Error : LBA 57357685
Error : LBA 57357686
Error : LBA 57357687
Error : LBA 57357688
Error : LBA 57357689
Error : LBA 57357690
Error : LBA 57357691
Error : LBA 57357692
Error : LBA 57357693
Error : LBA 57357694
Error : LBA 57357695
Error : LBA 57357696
Error : LBA 57357697
Error : LBA 57357698
Error : LBA 57357699
Error : LBA 57357700
Error : LBA 57357701
Error : LBA 57357702
Error : LBA 57357703
Error : LBA 57357704
Error : LBA 57357705
Error : LBA 57357706
Error : LBA 57357707
Error : LBA 57357708
Error : LBA 57357709
Error : LBA 57357710
Error : LBA 57357711
Error : LBA 57357712
Error : LBA 57357713
Error : LBA 57357714
Service Code => AJ24 : Bad Sector.
Error : Ecc error
>> RAM VERIFY TEST : Testing... Pass !
>> MULTIPLE READ TEST : Testing... Pass !
Service Code => AJ24 : Bad Sector.
Scan Elapsed Time : 03:27:31
Error Occured Test Loop Number 1
End Time : Thu Sep 25 06:39:24 2008
Test was completed.
=================================================

[noguru]

TheWalrus, on Sep 25 2008, 04:44 PM, said:

Well, I wouldn't dare to say discs are shipped with some already bad sectors, but..

Yes they are. It's mass-production and that's not perfect. If production was perfect then AMD would not sell the Phenom X3 but only the X4. The X3 is just a imperfect X4. A failure.
Every harddisk has a few errors. In the old days, when you could still do a real low-level format yourself, you had to use the "defect-list". A list of bad sectors that had to be put into the low-level format utility. Nowadays the internal logics of the drive itself take care of that.

But bad sectors that arise after production are always really bad, unless you are very sure what might have caused the problem. Like some power problem like you say. In all other cases bad sectors usually become more bad sectors.

Since your drive is only three months old there is only one thing to do. RMA it. Samsung's own diagnostic tool finds serious errors so there is no debate about that. This is a bad drive.

[TheWalrus]

It's interesting the errors (I assume each of the entries stand for one sector) are right next to each other.

The real bad things are that 1) how am I supposed to backup 700GB of data and 2) the disc is installed into HDD Silencer... gah. Give me back my twelve years old PC with 2.5GB 5.25" disc

I only hope this SpinPoint is suitable for almost nonstop operation. I sure do like its performance.
But the bad luck floating around me is getting scary. Five boards RMAed since march and now disc...

[twig123]

TheWalrus, on Sep 25 2008, 03:06 PM, said:

1) how am I supposed to backup 700GB of data

1,000 CD's...
149 Single Layer DVD's...
83 Dual-Layer DVD's...
47 Single Layer HD DVD's...
24 Dual-Layer HD DVD's...
28 Single Layer Blue-ray Disks...
14 Dual-Layer Blue-ray Disk's...
...or another hard drive

Sry, I couldn't resist

I personally have the same issue... I have several large drives that are all but 2% full... and need to backup data..... not fun.

[TheWalrus]

lol yup
The other drive thing is good idea but it's useless at the same time - I mean, buying another disc just for cases like this is um... I don't make fortune really! I need new speakers and some other things more...
Maybe over time I will buy some huge reliable disc where I will backup everything once a month.

[xenon2050]

I have to say that the best idea is to buy a new hard drive and RMA the old one... I recently had a drive go bad and I just bought a new one... Just a 250gb so as of yet I haven't bothered with a RMA, since they are so cheap....

[TheWalrus]

Well the trouble is that I have no use for 1) another drive and 2) smaller than 1TB (which is not THAT cheap).

[xenon2050]

Thats the reason I use three hard drives instead of just one big one. If I have a problem I can just transfer the data to another drive...
Anyway... I understand the money issue, but what choice do you have? Do you risk losing all your data or bite the bullet and get a new drive...
So you have 700GBs of data? Hmm, well if you are like me you could probably trim that down a bit and if that is the case why not go for a 500GB drive, they have nice western digitals going for $70 and free shipping at Newegg, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822136073
Or they have a 640GB for $85... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822136218

Edit: Having a second hard drive is *always* useful... As is shown in your situation... If you had a second hard drive you could backup your stuff to it

Edit2: I'm not much of a fan of Samsung products as almost all the ones I have owned suck... I had a Samsung hard drive 4 years ago that crapped out on me after not too long, and a DVD player that cost a good amount that doesn't work well... And I've heard of lots of issues with Samsung hard drives... But maybe thats just me

This post has been edited by xenon2050: 25 September 2008 - 03:51 PM

[twig123]

twig123, on Sep 25 2008, 04:52 PM, said:

TheWalrus, on Sep 25 2008, 03:06 PM, said:

1) how am I supposed to backup 700GB of data

1,000 CD's...
149 Single Layer DVD's...
83 Dual-Layer DVD's...
47 Single Layer HD DVD's...
24 Dual-Layer HD DVD's...
28 Single Layer Blue-ray Disks...
14 Dual-Layer Blue-ray Disk's...
...or another hard drive

Sry, I couldn't resist

I personally have the same issue... I have several large drives that are all but 2% full... and need to backup data..... not fun.

also:
140 divShare accounts (http://www.divshare.com/) + LOTS OF TIME...

[xenon2050]

Or 98 gmail accounts... lol

This post has been edited by xenon2050: 25 September 2008 - 03:53 PM

[twig123]

xenon2050, on Sep 25 2008, 05:52 PM, said:

Or 108 gmail accounts... lol

Unfortunatly no... this doesn't work... I've tried it...
Gmail server ops will freeze your account after ~1.5GB (for "unusual activity") and will be inaccessable for ~3days

This post has been edited by twig123: 25 September 2008 - 03:55 PM

[TheWalrus]

There are some REALLY funky ideas out there

Google some articles about the new (well not too new anymore, few months) SpinPoint disc with 334GB per platter. It rocks performance-wise. And aside from my bad luck I haven't heard about a person with failed one.

P.S. 700GB is AFTER deleting all the stuff I can live without

[xenon2050]

twig123, on Sep 25 2008, 04:54 PM, said:

xenon2050, on Sep 25 2008, 05:52 PM, said:

Or 108 gmail accounts... lol

Unfortunatly no... this doesn't work... I've tried it...
Gmail server ops will freeze your account after ~1.5GB (for "unusual activity") and will be inaccessable for ~3days

Not surprising.... But since you pointed that out... I'm betting that divshare.com would figure out that you have 140 accounts and lock you out.. lol

700GB of stuff huh? Sheesh, what have you got... I suppose I have quite a bit too though... I like to backup my computers games to the computer in case the CDs break... At least I used to, now I don't like doing that because it is so time and space consuming...
My wife is a photographer so we have 150GBs of pictures and thats with backing up the pictures on a DVD and deleting them after a job (well, several months after a job)...

This post has been edited by xenon2050: 25 September 2008 - 04:26 PM

[jcarle]

TheWalrus, on Sep 25 2008, 03:06 PM, said:

Five boards RMAed since march and now disc...

If you've RMAed 5 motherboards in less then a year and now the problems with your hard drive, I'd say there's something seriously wrong that hasn't been addressed...

[TheWalrus]

No, not really... The story is a bit more complicated, but no

700GB of which 500 are movies

[DigeratiPrime]

I had to RMA my first Samsung 500GB drive due to the same problem. SpinRite could not repair the sectors and they were growing in number every day.

Read the FAQ @ StorageReview about the "Clicks of Death"
http://www.storagereview.com/php/tiki/tiki...age=DeathClicks

I replaced it with a WD 640GB since its about the fastest 7200RPM drive you can buy. I want to go RAID but I'm limited with my current Shuttle box.
Also for anyone else reading this and not familiar with Samsung, their RMA process is years behind WD and Seagate.

BTW check your power supply, maybe the voltage rails are unstable.

[TheWalrus]

I still believe this Samsung is among the fastest drives available if not fastest alone (wish they made 1TB VelociRaptor, lol).
Power is perfectly ok... I assume the problem is having the PC on 24/7. I did have some lockups and freezes. Might be that.

and Samsung's RMA is not of any interest for me cause I can have the disc replaced right on at the store I bought it in

[RJM]

If you bought it localy ( IE neighborhood Best Buy or whatever instead of over the internet) when they replace your disk they probably could transfer your data over to your new disk for nominal fee.