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Seagate 7200.11 fail & fine dataset

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#251
Genwedge

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Hi all,

My Barracuda 500GB 7200.11 elected to brick itself on Thursday night (24th June).

Number:Serial N°:Model:Part N°:Firmware:DateCode:(manufac. date):SiteCode:PurchaseDate:FailedDate:OEM/RETAIL:UserName:Country of User:fail reason/fine:OS:PSU
================================================================================================================================================================
9QM6****:ST3500320AS:9BX154-303:SD15:09156:KRATSG:2009-04-??:2010-06-24:OEM:Genwedge:UK:no detect in bios:WinXp:Zalman 600w modular PSU.

Appears my drive stayed alive far longer than perhaps you'd expect.
I can't quite remember the Purchase date, but I can find it out as I have the original PO somewhere.

Cheers, Richard


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#252
HallBert

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Number:Serial N°:Model:Part N°:Firmware:DateCode:(manufac. date):SiteCode:PurchaseDate:FailedDate:OEM/RETAIL:UserName:Country of User:fail reason/fine:OS:PSU
===========================================================================================
9QM8DLBE:ST3500320NS:9CA154-052:MA07:09173:(2008 October 27th):KRATSG:????-??-??:2010-07-08:OEM:HallBert:Canada:no detect in bios:WinXP:LITEON

Thank you???

#253
desaputra

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I got 3 drives to add to the list:


Number:Serial N°:Model:Part N°:Firmware:DateCode:(manufac. date):SiteCode:PurchaseDate:FailedDate:OEM/RETAIL:UserName:Country of User:fail reason/fine:OS:PSU
============================================================================================================================================
5VP1NH**:ST31000528AS:9SL154-301:CC37:10141:():SU:2010-05-30:2010-06-20:OEM:DESAPUTRA:Ireland:no detect in bios:WIN7ULTIMATE:DELL 350W

5VP1MY**:ST31000528AS:9SL154-301:CC37:10141:():SU:2010-05-30:2010-06-20:OEM:DESAPUTRA:Ireland:no detect in bios:WIN7ULTIMATE:DELL 350W

5VP1KR**:ST31000528AS:9SL154-301:CC37:10141:():SU:2010-05-30:2010-07-10:OEM:DESAPUTRA:Ireland:no detect in bios:WIN7ULTIMATE:External Enclosure.


Got 2 more that still working, but I already take it out from my m/c...

#254
DerrylCocks

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I have a drive to add to the list.

Number:Serial N°:Model:Part N°:Firmware:DateCode:(manufac. date):SiteCode:PurchaseDate:FailedDate:OEM/RETAIL:UserName:Country of User:fail reason/fine:OS:PSU
============================================================================================================================================
:9QMABJJD:ST3500320AS:9BX154-303:SD1A:09306::KRATSG:2010-04-08:2011-01-04:RETAIL:DerrylCocks:USA:not powering up:WinXP:Dell Dimension 4600

#255
ubelong2matt

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I have now had two of these drives fail me. The second drive failed due to S.M.A.R.T. failures (I believe) where the drive would randomly fail to be recognized in the BIOS. This occured even while in Windows 7 64-bit. If it happened in Windows, Windows would lock up completely after the mouse began to move around in a choppy fashion. First drive failed from the firmware problem. I was unaware, because Seagate failed to contact vendors of their products, that a firmware update was even needed for my drive prior to complete failure. I therefore lost everything on the drive when it failed after a routine restart. Here is the drive information and shame on Seagate. I'll stick with WD from now on.

Number:Serial N°:Model:Part N°:Firmware:DateCode:(manufac. date):SiteCode:PurchaseDate:FailedDate:OEM/RETAIL:UserName:Country of User:fail reason/fine:OS:PSU

5QM3M81V:ST3500320AS:9BX154-303:SD15:unknown:unknown:12-21-08:1-17-10:OEM:ubelong2matt:USA:not detected in BIOS:Win 7 64-bit
5QM2G2VT:ST3500320AS:9BX154-303:SD1A:0953-2:WUXISG:6-15-10:2-9-11:OEN:ubelong2matt:USA:S.M.A.R.T failure:Win 7 64-bit

I'm still awaiting a response to the questions about the second drive's possible RMA. Sorry to reply to an old post but I just found this post and wanted to share my story.

Thanks,
Matt

#256
BlouBul

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I have now had two of these drives fail me. The second drive failed due to S.M.A.R.T. failures (I believe) where the drive would randomly fail to be recognized in the BIOS. This occured even while in Windows 7 64-bit. If it happened in Windows, Windows would lock up completely after the mouse began to move around in a choppy fashion.


Hi ubelong2matt

the second drive does not sound like BSY. If it is sometimes recognised, and other times not, it is something else. Does it work if you try it through an external USB enclosure, or as a secondary internal HDD (not the system drive)?

I therefore lost everything on the drive when it failed after a routine restart.

You do realise that you can recover your data and repair your drive using this procedure?
Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one.

#257
tjdomsalla

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Hi,

here is my now unusable Barracuda 7200.11:

Number:Serial N°:Model:Part N°:Firmware:DateCode:(manufac. date):SiteCode:PurchaseDate:FailedDate:OEM/RETAIL:UserName:Country of User:fail reason/fine:OS:PSU

:9TE18TMS:ST31000333AS:9FZ136-100:LC15:09237::TK:2009:2011-02-21:RETAIL:tjdomsalla:Germany:click of death:Windows 7 64-bit:PC

:-(=( &%§$*@!

TJ

#258
BlouBul

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here is my now unusable Barracuda 7200.11:



You do realise that you can recover your data and repair your drive using this procedure?


Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one.

#259
jaclaz

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You do realise that you can recover your data and repair your drive using this procedure?


Can he/she? :unsure:

Number:Serial N°:Model:Part N°:Firmware:DateCode:(manufac. date):SiteCode:PurchaseDate:FailedDate:OEM/RETAIL:UserName:Country of User:fail reason/fine:OS:PSU

:9TE18TMS:ST31000333AS:9FZ136-100:LC15:09237::TK:2009:2011-02-21:RETAIL:tjdomsalla:Germany:click of death:Windows 7 64-bit:PC

jaclaz

#260
BlouBul

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Can he/she? :unsure:

Good Question :thumbup

@tjdomsalla:
What exactly is the symptoms of your hdd that you diagnosed it as "click of death"? Is it seen in Bios?
Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one.

#261
Deanolfc

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computer 3 months old seagate not responding what so ever i have sent it back to where i bought the computer was not being detected in the bios
or windows 7 repair disk barracuda 7200 ,

#262
louislester

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Serial No: 6TE09K97
Model: ST31000333AS
Part N°: 9FZ136-568
Firmware: SD35
DateCode:09207
SiteCode: SU
PurchaseDate:
FailedDate: 31.07.2011
OEM/RETAIL: Retail
UserName: louislester
Country of User: Australia
fail reason/fine: BSY
OS: Windows XP Pro

#263
Huygens

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Serial No: 9QM8QNCP
Model: ST3500320AS
Part N°: 9BX154-303
Firmware: SD15
DateCode: 09192
(manufac. date): N/A
SiteCode: KRATSG
PurchaseDate: 2008-12-03
FailedDate: 2011-08-15
OEM/RETAIL: Tagged as "OEM", bought new as Retail
UserName: Huygens
Country of User: Sweden
fail reason/fine: BSY (not detected in BIOS), see un-brick procedure
OS: Ubuntu Server 64-bit (started with ver. 8.04 LTS, upgraded to ver. 9.04, finally upgraded to ver. 10.04 LTS)
PSU: ADVANCE, Model MPT-460P (460 Watts)

#264
jerrybill

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I see the previous post to this thread is dated November 2011. Is this thread an ongoing project? If it is I probably have serial numbers for at least half a dozen dead Seagate 7200.11 drives to add to the list.

If this thread is dead it should carry a note to that effect and be locked.

Basically all the Seagate 7200.11 drives that I've ever come across have failed, and failed ridiculously early. I'm now at the stage of returning the failed replacement drives that Seagate supplied to me after I returned the failed originals.

This is gettting very old. It's not so much the turnaround in the drives as the time-consuming rebuilding of operating systems on fresh drives. I'm trying my best now to avoid Seagate drives altogether, and most certainly for system parittions, but the silly OEMs will keep fitting the danged things in PCs.

Is there a definitive list of the most common failure symptoms for these drives, and is there any reliable way to determine which failure(s) is/are present in any particular example drive? I don't use Windows, so GNU/Linux tools preferred.

PS:
I've read the READ_ME_FIRST and FGA but I haven't yet read all 222-odd pages of the main thread. As soon as I've drained the swamp I'll get to that.

Edited by jerrybill, 16 March 2013 - 08:06 AM.


#265
jaclaz

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This thread is not going to "die".

It goes into a "suspended animation" :w00t: until someone decides to add some data to it. ;)

The "original" issue with the 7200.11 is explained in the "BIG" thread, as pointed out in the READ_ME_FIRST, in around 40 posts, starting from here:
http://www.msfn.org/...530#entry830530

Of course this thread is loosing importance, as the "original" issue with the "botched" firmware is going to stop being reported (NO drives with THAT firmware actually surviving anymore), while the fixes for the symptoms of it have become a common cure for *whenever* and for *whatever* reason a 7200.11 disk "locks itself", a kind of (again as said in the READ_ME_FIRST) "generic reset".

Please understand how, no matter how much demented/headless are/were the good Seagate Engineers, you shouldn't expect that the WD (or the Hitachi, or the Samsung, etc.) ones are in any way different/better.

Whole series of hard disk drives dropping like flies :ph34r: have happened in the past to different manufacturers and there is no reason why that won't happen in the future.

The fact that also the 7200.12 is often reported as failing in a similar manner only shows that the general design (I would personally say the senseless idea of fitting that awful amount of data in such a small container) is *somehow* flawed, but there are comparable in number reports for "High capacity" Western Digitals also.

jaclaz

#266
jerrybill

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...Please understand how, no matter how much demented/headless are/were the good Seagate Engineers, you shouldn't expect that the WD (or the Hitachi, or the Samsung, etc.) ones are in any way different/better.

Whole series of hard disk drives dropping like flies :ph34r: have happened in the past to different manufacturers and there is no reason why that won't happen in the future.

The fact that also the 7200.12 is often reported as failing in a similar manner only shows that the general design (I would personally say the senseless idea of fitting that awful amount of data in such a small container) is *somehow* flawed, but there are comparable in number reports for "High capacity" Western Digitals also.


Hello again, and thanks for the reply.

I'm sure you're right about drives, engineers, firmware authors and manufacturers in general. Unfortunately that doesn't help me in the swamp I'm in at the moment. I have half a dozen dead Seagate Barracuda drives on the bench right now. They're going down faster than I can recover them and reinstall, and in some cases the backups are going down while I'm working on the live copies. Most of these drives arrived here in computers bought at different times from different suppliers.

It seems I'm a little late to the party on the "BUSY" and "0 Bytes" problems which apparently brought this model of drive into infamy. I only found out about those problems when I became suspicious after finding so many dead 7200.11 drives over the past year or so. I've shipped a few back to Seagate under warrantly and they've been replaced, so I don't know how old most of them were, but in view of the age of the original problems with these drives it seems odd to me that I'm seeing so many problems with them now. The drives I'm having problems with are unlikely to be older than about two years at most, even if the computers in which they arrived had been in stock for some time before their sale. In some cases I know that they're just a few montsh old because they're drives which have been returned to me as warranty replacements.

It seems to me that I'm seeing at least one other problem with them which appears to be neither of those original specific and well-publicised problems. I suspect however that it is related, simply because the drives that I am seeing fail are young, they have not been abused, they are Seagate Barracuda drives and the symptoms are not what I would expect for example from damage caused by shock, overheating, faulty heads, disc surface problems etc.

As an example, I have a 500GByte 7200.11 drive which was returned to me by Seagate a little while ago as a certified repaired drive. Its warranty expires next January. It failed in service after a few months (while powered up) and now the first 0xB8F6BC000 bytes (approximately 49.65GBytes) is readable with no errors and every read beyond that fails. After some time reading (attempting to read) it, the drive just seems to disappear and I have to power cycle the machine to get it back.

These symptoms seem to indicate firmware problems to me, which is why I asked if there's any definitive list of such problems known about the Barracuda drives.

Does this ring any bells with anyone? If I can recover the drives without having to RMA them and then have to reinstall everything from scratch it might save me a lot of time.

Admin: If this post should be elsewhere please feel free to move it and let me know where.

Edited: drive size correction and additional symptom.

Edited by jerrybill, 17 March 2013 - 10:13 AM.


#267
jaclaz

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It seems to me that I'm seeing at least one other problem with them which appears to be neither of those original specific and well-publicised problems. I suspect however that it is related, simply because the drives that I am seeing fail are young, they have not been abused, they are Seagate Barracuda drives and the symptoms are not what I would expect for example from damage caused by shock, overheating, faulty heads, disc surface problems etc.

As an example, I have a 500GByte 7200.11 drive which was returned to me by Seagate a little while ago as a certified repaired drive. Its warranty expires next January. It failed in service after a few months (while powered up) and now the first 0xB8F6BC000 bytes (approximately 49.65GBytes) is readable with no errors and every read beyond that fails. After some time reading (attempting to read) it, the drive just seems to disappear and I have to power cycle the machine to get it back.

These symptoms seem to indicate firmware problems to me, which is why I asked if there's any definitive list of such problems known about the Barracuda drives.

Does this ring any bells with anyone? If I can recover the drives without having to RMA them and then have to reinstall everything from scratch it might save me a lot of time.


Well, it is very possible - as said - that there is a whole range of issues with those drives, of which we know NOT the source/reason, let alone the "proper" fix.

If you are doing this "Commercially" or "Professionally", you might consider getting a PC-3000 and a subscription for it (or a similar tool/software/support).

The real issue with these (but as said with *any* failed drive) is that the most you can get for free (IF the disk is still under warranty) is a replacement drive that, this time specifically for the Seagate, is very often a "refurbished" disk drive.

Personally, besides the quality of the original "new" hard disk, I tend to be very, VERY doubtful about quality and longevity of refurbished disk drives (not necessarily Seagate's, any "high capacity" disk). :ph34r:

Paradoxically :w00t: , the refurbished 7200.11 might be (IF they belong to those that were simply bricked by the original firmware issue) more reliable then refurbished disks from other manufacturers as they have anyway never been opened. :angel


In my perverted mind a hard disk drive is only worth the data that is on it, and once you have it, the idea of "refurbishing" them yourself is IMHO utterly risky, so, the idea of getting a PC-3000 or the like is only aimed to the recovery of the data. (otherwise it would be easier to get a bunch of disks and keep them in the warehouse to "rotate" them with the RMAed ones, i.e. making the "cycle" shorter by inserting in it a "buffer" of locally available replacements)

Very rarely you can talk the Seagate support into allowing a free data recovery at their i365 subsidiary, and in any case it takes time and there is the big risk (not to be underestimated) of freight to and from them (lost items, stolen or damaged ones do happen), so even when "total" data recovery is possible and "free" it is risky.

Otherwise a typical data recovery carried by a Pro goes into the several hundreds of dollars/euros, no matter if it happens to be a five minutes job. :realmad: (though there are of course several very reliable and correct data recovery firms, there are also unfortunately a number of charlatans and let's say "less than 100% transparent approaches/procedures").

jaclaz

#268
jerrybill

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... there is a whole range of issues with those drives ...


The question that I am asking is "Is there somewhere a list of the known issues with these drives?"

The real issue with these (but as said with *any* failed drive) is that the most you can get for free (IF the disk is still under warranty) is a replacement drive that, this time specifically for the Seagate, is very often a "refurbished" disk drive.


Indeed. As I said, refurbished drives are starting to fail here. It is very disappointing.

Personally, besides the quality of the original "new" hard disk, I tend to be very, VERY doubtful about quality and longevity of refurbished disk drives (not necessarily Seagate's, any "high capacity" disk).


A bit like getting a used crash-helmet back in the post. :headbang:

Paradoxically ... the refurbished 7200.11 might be (IF they belong to those that were simply bricked by the original firmware issue) more reliable then refurbished disks from other manufacturers as they have anyway never been opened.


If you say so. :)

In my perverted mind a hard disk drive is only worth the data that is on it, and once you have it, the idea of "refurbishing" them yourself is IMHO utterly risky...


Please don't misunderstand me. I only want to save time in rebuilding complex systems which contain a lot of installed and heavily configured software plus a huge amount of data. The discs themselves are effectively worthless and after this experience will be discarded, whether recovered or not, and replaced with something from a different manufacturer. I would not recommend to anyone that they attempt to revive and put back into service discs which have failed in this way. In my opinion they are simply junk, and I'll be a happier man when I've seen my last Barracuda drive.

Interestingly since my last post I recovered another 100GBytes from the 500GByte drive that I mentioned there, in two 50GByte chunks. It failed after each chunk but it looks like it might be data (data volume?) related. I don't think it's temperature because I have turned off the heating in the warehouse where I'm working and I have a desk fan blowing cold air onto the drive.

#269
jaclaz

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The question that I am asking is "Is there somewhere a list of the known issues with these drives?"

AFAIK NO (and anyway not a "public" one, possibly some of the good guys making professional hardware/software recovering tools have one - reserved to members or the like - which is anyway created by experience/experimenting/reverse engineering as the manufacturers tend to be very, very secretive about the innards of their disks and the way they work/fail/can be fixed).


Please don't misunderstand me. I only want to save time in rebuilding complex systems which contain a lot of installed and heavily configured software plus a huge amount of data. The discs themselves are effectively worthless and after this experience will be discarded, whether recovered or not, and replaced with something from a different manufacturer. I would not recommend to anyone that they attempt to revive and put back into service discs which have failed in this way. In my opinion they are simply junk, and I'll be a happier man when I've seen my last Barracuda drive.

Yep, what I meant is that depending on the volumes (in the sense of quantities and compexity) of your business, setting up a "data recovery" station, even if limited to to the most "common" cases might be worth the effort, IF actual data recovery is needed, otherwise (i.e. if you can re-build on new disks dorm images/backups) it makes very little sense.

Interestingly since my last post I recovered another 100GBytes from the 500GByte drive that I mentioned there, in two 50GByte chunks. It failed after each chunk but it looks like it might be data (data volume?) related. I don't think it's temperature because I have turned off the heating in the warehouse where I'm working and I have a desk fan blowing cold air onto the drive.

Disks are strange beasts :ph34r: , sometimes (not necessarily applying to your case :unsure: ) imaging "backwards" and in "chunks" succeeds where "normal" imaging does not, see:
http://www.datarescu...cue/v3/drdd.htm
http://reboot.pro/to...-clicking-disk/
http://reboot.pro/to...-disk/?p=133567

jaclaz

#270
jerrybill

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Disks are strange beasts :ph34r: , sometimes (not necessarily applying to your case :unsure: ) imaging "backwards" and in "chunks" succeeds where "normal" imaging does not, see:
http://www.datarescu...cue/v3/drdd.htm
http://reboot.pro/to...-clicking-disk/
http://reboot.pro/to...-disk/?p=133567


The GNU 'ddrescue' tool that I'm using does that sort of thing automatically. I'm also doing similar things manually to try to find out more about the drive. It's tedious. :(

I'm now almost sure that the issue with this drive is that the electronics and/or firmware are not capable of recovering from a burst of errors.

It seems that if there are just a few bad sectors in an area of the disc it can recover and continue reading the drive. But it seems that if there are many consecutive bad sectors then at some point the drive becomes confused and can no longer read anything. I can't say for sure what 'a few' and 'many' mean in this context at the moment. The only resolution to this condition that I have found at the moment is to power it down. I'm looking more deeply into it but I'd say it's almost certainly a different fault from the other two major faults which I know about on these drives. It seems also fairly major.

I've ordered some serial interface gear and when it arrives I'll see if I can cause a drive restart without power cycling it. May be I'll learn more by poking around in the operating system too.

Any suggestions for some sort of hardware reset to get the drive reading again? I've tried accessing the drive through a USB/SATA interface and then resetting the USB interface, but that didn't help.

#271
cLinic5

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"If you are doing this "Commercially" or "Professionally", you might consider getting a PC-3000 and a subscription for it (or a similar tool/software/support)."
how much does something like this cost? I'm guessing it's not worth it to fix a couple of drives.

"Paradoxically :w00t: , the refurbished 7200.11 might be (IF they belong to those that were simply bricked by the original firmware issue) more reliable then refurbished disks from other manufacturers as they have anyway never been opened. :angel "
Very good point!!!

"Very rarely you can talk the Seagate support into allowing a free data recovery at their i365 subsidiary, and in any case it takes time and there is the big risk (not to be underestimated) of freight to and from them (lost items, stolen or damaged ones do happen), so even when "total" data recovery is possible and "free" it is risky."
How would one go about this<G>

"Otherwise a typical data recovery carried by a Pro goes into the several hundreds of dollars/euros, no matter if it happens to be a five minutes job. :realmad: (though there are of course several very reliable and correct data recovery firms, there are also unfortunately a number of charlatans and let's say "less than 100% transparent approaches/procedures")."
"jaclaz"
That's the real part I don't get. If it's a 5 or even 15 minute job when you don't need to open the drive (no need for a clean room), why don't they charge less? I even wrote some companies telling them
it's just a fw fix and they still would only give a full data recovery price or wanted to check the drive first but in all cases the cheapest I found from one of the main companies was $600. There were other lower prices but one has to wonder about them. Besides I heard, can't remember where, that when they give you a quote they have already figured out how to recover the data or have recovered it already.
So I don't get why the main DR companies don't give customers a break when they don't have to use their clean room. I don't think i would have tried to DIY if the prices were more reasonable. Now i know i am gonna be flamed, by the DR people, for that reasonable and i agree with their argument about paying a ton for a good heart surgeon vs. a bad one. But I am not talking about heart surgery, a firmware fix that many DIY'ers have done sucessfully is more like a flu shot! They are so cheap that some years I get two just to make sure. I'm kidding I hate shots, I also hate trying to fix my drives fw but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna get/try it.

Good luck to everyone that tries this and let me just point out two things.
1) when your pcb is not connected to your hd completely that excess electricity will eventually go somewhere you don't want it. Try to fix your drive
on the first 1-3 shots. I think it was on my 8 th try that I messed up :(
2) On the 7200.12 at least there could be other problems in the firmware and/or drive that won't be fixed by the "BSY" or "LBA" fixes.

I am still working on mine, over a month now, and have over 15 pages of notes from forums and websites so don't give up just heed some of the warnings.
Wow that was long and I had just planned on commenting on jclaz's comment about seagate refurnished drives possibly being better than others which I
think is 100% on point hence the reason I just paraphrased it.

#272
jaclaz

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That's the real part I don't get. If it's a 5 or even 15 minute job when you don't need to open the drive (no need for a clean room), why don't they charge less? I even wrote some companies telling them
it's just a fw fix and they still would only give a full data recovery price or wanted to check the drive first but in all cases the cheapest I found from one of the main companies was $600. There were other lower prices but one has to wonder about them. Besides I heard, can't remember where, that when they give you a quote they have already figured out how to recover the data or have recovered it already.

You don' t have the word "greed" in your dictionary? :w00t:
Just in case ;):
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/greed

Besides I heard, can't remember where, that when they give you a quote they have already figured out how to recover the data or have recovered it already.

It can be even worse than that.
While most firms are obviously (even if somehow "greedy") "professional", I was reported in a few occasions of "ransom like" approaches.
Basically you pay a "flat fee" for the exam of the drive, the firm would recover the contents, but provide you only with a DIR of the files found, asking for some money (the usual range between US$ 500 and 1,200) to recover the files.
If you accept and pay the money you get your files back, if you don't and ask the drive back they give you back another drive (always photocopy the label of the disk AND mark in a corner the PCB and the aluminum case with a couple little scratch and take a picture of them ;) before handing a disk to any external firm) or give you back your drive, BUT with the data wiped/mingled and re-bricked.
You then try yourself (and fail) and or find another firm that (in perfect good faith) cannot recover anything so you go back to the "first" one.
This time however the cost for the recovery (which they can still do :sneaky: ) is doubled or tripled.... :ph34r:

So I don't get why the main DR companies don't give customers a break when they don't have to use their clean room.

Well, JFYI, that is another nice urban myth.
The number of actual clean rooms in data recovery shops in a mid-sized industrial country can usually be counted on fingers without taking your shoes off. :whistle:
What is written on the site/advertisement is "clean room", what actually exists/is used is generally a laminar flow workbench. :w00t:

I don't think i would have tried to DIY if the prices were more reasonable. Now i know i am gonna be flamed, by the DR people, for that reasonable and i agree with their argument about paying a ton for a good heart surgeon vs. a bad one. But I am not talking about heart surgery, a firmware fix that many DIY'ers have done sucessfully is more like a flu shot! They are so cheap that some years I get two just to make sure. I'm kidding I hate shots, I also hate trying to fix my drives fw but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna get/try it.

JFYI:
http://www.msfn.org/...151#entry897151

jaclaz




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