NUTTER123

Can't access repair my PC option via F8 startup

69 posts in this topic

And another question is, where is the geometry saved. With testdisk for example, you can change the geometry, but where is it saved. Or will it determed through the OS?

One of those questions that can be answered with yes/no/maybe/who knows. :w00t:

The geometry of a "real" device is NOT saved anywhere.

It is the device itself that upon interrogation reveals it's own geometry.

Then the BIOS, or the OS, or BOTH, may decide to EITHER:

  1. confirm the device "inherernt" geometry
    OR:
  2. change it to whatever it "likes"

  • DOS trusts WHATEVER geometry the device "exposes".
  • Some BIOSes (typical Lenovo laptops) "force" geometry to 240 heads.
  • "Strict" BIOSes (typically BOCHS/QEMU one) force a geometry (on a RAW disk image - i.e. one without an exposed geometry) depending on size reported by device.
  • NT 4.0 would use the "natively" (i.e. when the device, such as a virtual disk, does NOT expose a given geometry, a 64/32 one)
  • 2K and later use "natively" a 255/63 one, but do use the one the BIOS sets in the early phases of booting.
  • Theoretically 2K and later ONLY use LBA access, thus geometry should have NO meaning whatsoever for them BUT, due to legacy code in the MBR and the bootsector, if you use a "wrong geometry" they won't be able to BOOT from the drive.
  • For some operations (loosely connected with the above) TESTDISK needs the "right" geometry, which you can then set inside the program.

The above can be summed up into:

Not only it is a mess but is a largely undocumented and/or misrepresented mess. :(

JFYI:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=23408

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=21702&st=129

http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=8528&view=findpost&p=73205

And, slightly (but not much ;)) OT:

http://reboot.pro/6546/

http://reboot.pro/2246/page__st__15

You do not have to worry as in your case geometry should remain 255x63. :)

Why did you say that? Is the start or end of an partition not set correctly. I read somewhere, that the end of an partition has to be at the end of a cluster, sector or zylinder boundary. Or because there is unlocated space between partition 2-3 and between 3-4 ? ^^

The "right" way - as I see it - is to use the "legacy" Cylinder/Head boundaries.

Of course the good MS guys are not of the same opinion and introduced in Vista :ph34r: a different approach.

In some setups the combined effect of this choice and the stupidity with which the 2K/XP/2003 disk management was made can create serious problems:

http://reboot.pro/9897/

Also, using "sorted partitions is ALWAYS a good idea IMNSHO:

http://reboot.pro/13757/

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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Hey Jayclaz... Thank you for your elaborate answers, even if i can´t follow everything :}

I read in a german forum:

- that the modern OS doesn´t take care of cyl.-b. because of LBA-Access

- that Vista/7 ignores the cylinder-bounderies, because of the support of SSDs. The Offset is aligned to 1MiB (1024kb).

But in fact, the partition-table-data is virtual... Because there are no 255 heads :crazy:

So if i want to start/end a partition at a cylinder-boundaries, i have to calculate where a real cylinder starts/ends!

My new HDD supports Advanced Format (4KB Sectors). The old one is Nov/2006 --> 512byte-sectors

It is to be feared, that the image won´t work as the Laptop is from 2006. But the hdd´s firmware will do it, i hope

New WD-drives even have a jumper to make the drive compatible to XP !? Just read the first time ^^ ... Here´s the source:

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-4kb-sector-disks/#benchmarks

The effect is shifting the sectors by 1

I´ll try Advanced Format Software, which helps to align the partitions :)

Maybe this is not the suitable thread, but i think, its ok, if anybody can´t access the "repair" option through a HDD-crash (the IDE-HDD of my own, ancient notebook becomes not initalizised any more, with XP without recoverypartition :thumbup But had a hidden partition with a Image of the C-Drive on it... :realmad:

Kind regards.... chris

P.S.: One of those questions that can be answered with yes/no/maybe/who knows. :w00t:

I think to remember I´ve read about a year ago that the firmware of the hdd is also involved in handling the geometry, too

Edited by Schiiwa
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I read in a german forum:

- that the modern OS doesn´t take care of cyl.-b. because of LBA-Access

- that Vista/7 ignores the cylinder-bounderies, because of the support of SSDs. The Offset is aligned to 1MiB (1024kb).

Well, you can read the first also here:

  • 2K and later use "natively" a 255/63 one, but do use the one the BIOS sets in the early phases of booting.
  • Theoretically 2K and later ONLY use LBA access, thus geometry should have NO meaning whatsoever for them BUT, due to legacy code in the MBR and the bootsector, if you use a "wrong geometry" they won't be able to BOOT from the drive.

And the second is mainly nonsense, the new alignment originally derived from access optimization on databases and was adopted mainly for that reason and with compatibility with new sector sized HD's in mind (more theoretical than practical in everyday use), nothing to do with SSD's I am afraid:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd758814.aspx

http://reboot.pro/9897/page__st__40

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2888

jaclaz

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I hope it wouldn´t have been that easily in Vista also...

http://www.sevenforums.com/installation-setup/141810-cannot-access-winre-environment-f8.html

Will try and post back ^^

Won´t work @ Vista :sneaky:

Another (i think the last one) question related to the 4kb-sector-thing

I ran "fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo C:" and the output with the new HDD is the same as the old one: Bytes per sector: 512

Is this because of cloning from an "old" drive or just normal. Does Windows emulate 512kb-sectors

Cheers,

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Is this because of cloning from an "old" drive or just normal. Does Windows emulate 512kb-sectors

I thinks it depends on the actual drive and if there is a "translation mode" in it's firmware set to "on" (via jumper or through OS driver :unsure:) , but I don't really have any detailed experience with these new 4 kb sector drives.

jaclaz

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Is this because of cloning from an "old" drive or just normal. Does Windows emulate 512kb-sectors

I thinks it depends on the actual drive and if there is a "translation mode" in it's firmware set to "on" (via jumper or through OS driver :unsure:) , but I don't really have any detailed experience with these new 4 kb sector drives.

jaclaz

Never Mind.... I ´ll find out some day :angel

1. Is there any way to get a larger upload-storage... or do i have to remove all the pictures?

Here is another Problem, which is really annoying to me.. I´m pretty sure that this is a LOL-Problem for Tripredacus mentioned in his signature ^^:

  • I installed Vista SP2 on this Notebook without unattended-answer-files or any other XML (no experiences since Vista, as i dont own a PC/Notebook at the moment, which is runnable for Vista (sometimes i ask myself why I always have to handle with this old crap or any other celeron-low-cached systems)
  • at OOBE i went to AUDIT-MODE
  • I pre-configured the system AND ACTIVATED IT!
  • But when i boot to OOBE again, i have to activate again, which i am not able to accept :angry:


    2. Is there a way to ACTIVATE vista before running OOBE, not nessecery to activate at OOBE again?
    If I have to use a unattended.xml, syspref.xml or anything like that, can I just put the information for the activation in it? I´ve read something about \Windows\Panther, but do not want to do all the steps through Windows System Image Manager!
    I´ve been looking around but didn´t find a solution, just for the inverted problem:
    Windows_welcome_may_not_prompt_for_product_key.doc
    i guess, that should be OOBE
    In this article of TechNet:
    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc766514%28WS.10%29.aspx
    it says:
    Activating Windows before Shipping to a Customer
    Most customers can easily manage activation after receiving their computers. But if you prefer, you can activate the software on behalf of your customers, making it easier for them to start using their new computers. After activation is completed, most users will not need to activate their installation again.
    To activate Windows for your customer, use the unique Product Key from the certificate of authenticity (COA) label that is affixed to the specific computer, and activate the computer on behalf of the end user. Run the sysprep /oobe command to prepare the computer for delivery to the customer.
    noteNote
    You cannot make an image of an activated Windows installation and duplicate that image to another computer. If you do, Windows fails to recognize the activation and forces the end user to reactivate the installation manually.
    But how... for me that doesn´t work. Always have to enter the VLK (without imaging or applying between AUDIT and OOBE)
    And there are only about 3 times remained. I read somewhere that i can only activate online 10 times :angry:
    Tripredacus, the HTML/VBS/JS-Problem has to wait. Is there a way to get a larger up-box? Or do i have to delete all these funny, little screenshots?
Edited by Schiiwa
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Here is another Problem, which is really annoying to me.. I´m pretty sure that this is a LOL-Problem for Tripredacus mentioned in his signature ^^:

// snip //

But when i boot to OOBE again, i have to activate again, which i am not able to accept :angry:

// snip //

Tripredacus, the HTML/VBS/JS-Problem has to wait. Is there a way to get a larger up-box? Or do i have to delete all these funny, little screenshots?

:lol: first the "lol probloms" is a memory of a past user... :angel

You shouldn't be activating in Audit mode, as Sysprep resets activation. Listed as a benefit of sysprep. I'm not certain of a way to activate in Audit Mode. The systems I work with are activated in Audit Mode but sysprep still resets the activation. Anyways, never had a reason to activate Disty Windows since it is not allowed per the license I am bound by. :ph34r:

MSFN isn't meant to be anyone's personal storage. Even us staff have unlimited space for uploads I think, but I do not upload anything large here, because web space takes more money and potential to slow the forum down. You should check out Microsoft Live SkyDrive. I don't know a link to go to set one up, but here is the link to mine. I'm sure there is a way to set them up that way.

What specifically do you need to upload?

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Storage:

You missunderstood. I don´t want to use it as a storage or up large files. For this, there are 1000s of filehoster available like sendspace and all the others. But i wondered, why I can´t attach any screenshot anymore (the one with the script-error when trying to recover from DVD) I also wanted to attach the scripts. i think i have to remove the legacy screenshots. The problem is, that i often related my text to those pics. I realized that MSFN is not meant to upload any screenshots afterwards, because there is just 1 MB. This is a little bit confusing, because there was a popup of max-file-size of 64 mb!

1MB ... makes me feel like in 90s. Grafic-cards with 1 MB were premium :lol:

Activation:

There are 2 Keys. One on the sicker at the bottom, and the other one i extracted from the preinstalled OEM-version (Because I know such MS-related problems). Maybe i took the OEM-Key which is not compatible to the untouched, standard DVD. I´m not sure, which key i took for the last installation.

I will reinstall Vista now... And find out. But for sure, the last time! :angry:

i will take a raw-image before booting to oobe

Try if the key is asked about again (the one on the sticker)

If no, i will enter audit mode

then try again, if key is wanted.

If No --> Everthing is fine (just took the wrong key)

if Yes --> Sysprep will reset the activation like u said and I will have to find out in which file to put the activation-information (the key)

if it even is possible without an unattended.xml and all the stuff (XMLs) around there!

or i won´t be able to prepair the system for the owner (which SYSPREPair should be able to).... and sue MS for the complete waste of time :ph34r:

I am such glad that i backed up the \windows\softwaredistribution\download - Folder before deleting it!

Hope u will help me with the script-problem later ^^

P.S.: An installation of windows always end up in a reinstallation-party! :lol:

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You shouldn't be activating in Audit mode, as Sysprep resets activation. Listed as a benefit of sysprep. I'm not certain of a way to activate in Audit Mode. The systems I work with are activated in Audit Mode but sysprep still resets the activation. Anyways, never had a reason to activate Disty Windows since it is not allowed per the license I am bound by. :ph34r:

It was not a wrong key.... CTRL + SHIFT + F3 resets the activation as u said, tripredacus. For me the problem isn´t the activation @ all. But I just do NOT want to get prompted for the key. Can i put it in a file where windows will have a look @ or before oobe. If i do not enter audit-mode, i do not get the popup: "Enter your License key".

But then, for me, the system isn´t PREPaired.

now just remaining the problem with the java- and visual basic-scripts, which must have a little mistake (i think there is a line missing or something like that).... the error-output is:

'document.getElementById(_)' is zero or no object! Line 139

Bye.... Shiva

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You need to add ProductKey to Windows-Shell-Setup in Specialize pass. Read about it here.

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You need to add ProductKey to Windows-Shell-Setup in Specialize pass. Read about it here.

The problem i have is, that i do not think it will grab the unatted.xml from now. I would have to reinstall it with all the entries in this XML-File. For registration this is the setting:

<settings pass="specialize">

<component name="Microsoft-Windows-Shell-Setup" >

<ProductKey>xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx</ProductKey>

The Installation is already done (not unattended).

I do not want to reinstall it. It is installed and configured through AUDIT-mode (pressed CTRL+SHIFT+F3) ... (This deleted the Information about the Key entered at the beginning of the installation, although i did not mark the GENERALIZE option)

Will an unattend.xml on UFD will be picked up NOW, if i put these lines shown above in it.... I don´t think so.... Thats why i thought about OOBE.XML.... maybe there is a way!? Or any other...

Maybe "sysprep /unattend:key.xml", with these 3 lines in it????

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc765993%28WS.10%29.aspx

Here in the Grafik specialize is before Audit, so it will be deleted as well.

But just realized a nice reg-path ... Maybe this could solve my problem ^^:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\SL

Edited by Schiiwa
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When you use Ctrl+Shift+F3 to enter audit mode. After you boot to the desktop, close the sysprep box. Then from start -> run you type:

c:\windows\system32\sysprep\sysprep.exe /oobe /reboot /unattend:path_to_unattend.xml.

You probably should make sure your XML is validated, or else you may have to reinstall again if Setup/Sysprep doesn't like the file, or if it isn't built properly.

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Thank ya ... I will rearm and try some other things first.

I found a vbs-script (SLP1.vbs) and another interesting XML (SLP20Input.xml) in the orginal Factory.wim ... Will have a look at it first. Maybe the VBS can simply be executed ...

Also I will try the REG-Key mentioned in my last post.

Edit: Didn´t Work as expected!

Edited by Schiiwa
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The script SLP1.VBS and the Digital License-File (XrML) worked well!

Cheers!

Edited by Schiiwa
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