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Can't access repair my PC option via F8 startup

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#26
Tripredacus

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Oooo be careful there. There are two things that the CMD uses to find the recovery partition and it may be compiled. I see from the post that there is a custom RE application so without knowing what is in there and what it does that may become broken. The recovery partition is detected by looking for the prescense of a certain file and also by the volume GUID. The reason it looks confusing is because the CMD is supposed to be run BEFORE the recovery partition is hidden (such as in deployment or when booted into WinRE). So in those cases, it has no problem finding the recovery or boot partition because it has a drive letter at that point.

There should be two CMD files, both similarly named. One is in the boot partition and one in the recovery partition.

Personally I like Win7 WinRE better. Vista's is just annoying.
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#27
Schiiwa

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As you can see in Post #15 in my attachments, Testdisk found 2 hidden Partitions: 1 NTFS [WinRE] and 1 FAT32 [FSC_OTS] !?
The NTFS is a OEM Partition with ID=27.

The FAT32-Partition is just a service-partition and holds just 85 MB! It should have been deleted i guess, as you can see in the following lines

In the ROOT there are these files (and more):
SET_ENV.BAT
FINDRAMD.BAT
AUTOEXEC.BAT

...
  • ::GDISK-LOESCHE OTS_PART
  • echo.
  • echo Loesche SERVICEPARTITION...
  • echo.
  • gdisk 1 /del /p:%OTS_PART% /y
  • gdisk 1 /act /p:2 /y
  • echo.
...


This Partition should nothing have to do with the Recovery-Partition. I copied all files to my external HDD via TESTDISK and looked in the BATCH-Scripts.... Just do configure the System´s Hardware (CMOS/BIOS/FIRMWARES/etc.)


  • In normal operation:
    BIOS->MBR->PBR of active partition->Normal OS booting

    In Recovery operation:
    BIOS->MBR->HotKey pressed->Recovery partition is unhidden and set Active->PBR of active partition (which is now the recovery partition)->Recovery OS booting

  • What happens with the "new" approach should be something like:

    In normal operation:
    BIOS->MBR->PBR of active partition->BOOTMGR->BCD->Normal OS booting

    In Recovery operation:
    BIOS->MBR->BOOTMGR->BCD->HotKey pressed->Recovery OS booting (WINRE) ->get data from factory.wim->restore OS


I think, the green one is the way, the WinRE was accessed, because the Menu looked like Vista´s Boot-Menü with the Option "Repair Computer".
1st Question:
Or is the BCD and BOOTMGR on the WinRE-partition an indication for booting it over the MBR with its own Boot Configuration Data?

2nd Question:
If i mount the FACTORY.WIM, can i edit the \Boot\BCD, to see it´s content or even Export the entries to a file? Or do i have to APPLY the Image to C:, that i can export the BCD via BCDEDIT /EXPORT
ANSWER: Yes: With the command BCDEDIT /store \boot\bcd /enum all

3rd Question:
Can a WIM-File hold the original MBR?
ANSWER: NO

It is possible that your particular PC has a "mixed mode", where the Recovery partition where the Factory.wim is, is hidden and unhidden when booting the WinRE. :unsure:


I don´t think so. Because i already ran the recovery-partition several times in the past, i think it will be accessed over the BCD. The WinRE partition with id27 is designed for this, if the partition is the first one, like on my HDD!

All recovery-stuff is hidden. The FAT32-Partition i can only see via TESTDISK/BOOTDISK. Windows disk management Lists only 3 Partitions. 1 is OEM, 2 and 3 are C: and D:

In other words, when the original setupfailover.cmd is run, the hidden partition is unhidden and has a drive letter assigned to it (which should be the parameter you were asking about) then the batch itself removes the drive letter and hides the partition.

Hope that now it is more clear...


Yeah, i knew, that the script will take the letter away and hide the partition. But mine is already hidden, exept i will boot with the Vista-DVD to the CMD, then WinRE is F:\. That is the reason, why i would prefer a solution with BCDEDIT.EXE. But i don´t know the Syntax/variables/parameters/guids yet! (completely new @ vista/7)
The problem is, that i don´t want to make any changes to the partitions for now. So i can restore factory wim in case of emegency and will have the factory-state again (i hope). Then extract the BCD and restore my current SYSTEM.WIM (with proud 110GB), import bcd, let Vista repair the start-up and everything is fine.

I CAN ACCESS MY WINRE-PARTITION if i boot from the VISTA SP2-INSTALL-DISK and go to the REPAIR-OPTION - CMD.
WinRE Partition [id=27]=F:\
could i run the setautofailover script there?
SetAutoFailover.cmd /target F: /wim /nohide /partition 1

/mainos GUID ....
4th Question
Where can i find this GUID of my OS? I will attach the BCDEDIT.TXT, created with:
BCDEDIT /ENUM ALL >BCDEDIT.TXT

IS IT THIS ONE: {2ebf8c8c-0e38-11e0-9fc4-e7505350ad8a} ?
ANSWER: YES but {current} should work also


I imaged my current system on C: with this syntax:
imagex.exe /capture /boot /compress none /verify C: F:\Recovery\System.wim "SYSTEM"
And i connected the 2,5" Sata-Drive to a PC and made a RAW-Image with WindowsPE (XP), because the Laptop always hung at the destroyed sectors.


I have found an interesting Folder in the FACTORY.WIM! Look at the Restore.jpg in ATTACHMENTS. Such an EXE-File (like RESTORERECOVERY.EXE) could possibly restore my MBR, so restoring FACTORI.WIM maybe would help me to fix my problem via its installations-routine. Or it does the same like the Setautofailover-Script compiled in a EXE-File.
I just know the responsible files of XP (Files like WINNT.SIF or CMDLINES), which contain additional or costum files added by the manufacter. But where to look in VISTA? Where could a file like RESTORERECOVERY.EXE could be executed in the Installation-routine? I already looked @ the $OEM$-Folder. That is important, to look for parameters.


@ Tripredacus
5th Question:
Look @ recovery.jpg! The Picture is the standard one, but the last option "Fujitsu Siemens Computers" which would be there, if i would had booted it. Where does the Environment take this information? (it is not the orginal-screenshot :lol: )
ANSWER: from the WINPESHL.INI i think!

in mine, this is the content:
  • [LaunchApp]
  • rem AppPath=%comspec%
  • AppPath=X:\sources\recovery\tools\recoverypackage\bin\FSCPEStart.exe
  • [FSCRECOVERY]
  • AppPath=X:\sources\recovery\recenv.exe

Attached Files


Edited by Schiiwa, 27 January 2011 - 01:38 PM.

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#28
Schiiwa

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The Guid for the Ramdisk was already set ({ad6c7bc8-fa0f-11da-8ddf-0013200354d8})


Thats why i skipped these 3:

%BCDEDIT% -create %RAMDISK_OPTIONS% -d "Ramdisk Device Options" -device
%BCDEDIT% -set %RAMDISK_OPTIONS% ramdisksdidevice partition=%DRIVE%
%BCDEDIT% -set %RAMDISK_OPTIONS% ramdisksdipath \boot\boot.sdi



I did these commands always with a "successful" output :]

BCDEDIT -set {default} recoveryenabled yes
BCDEDIT -create {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} -d "Windows Recovery Environment" -application OSLOADER
BCDEDIT -set {default} recoverysequence {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d}
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} device ramdisk=[F:]\sources\boot.wim,{ad6c7bc8-fa0f-11da-8ddf-0013200354d8}
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} path \windows\system32\boot\winload.exe
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} osdevice ramdisk=[F:]\sources\boot.wim,{ad6c7bc8-fa0f-11da-8ddf-0013200354d8}
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} systemroot \windows
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} detecthal yes
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} nx optin
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} winpe yes
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} custom:46000010 yes


---------------------------------------


After that, the F8-Option was available again, but it returned an error, if i chose it:
Status: 0xc000000f info: the boot selection failed because a required device is inaccessible. ENTER=continue
If i push ENTER, it simply boots the installed system.




Then i deleted the GUID {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} and tried to let the OS assign a guid with these:

BCDEDIT -delete {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d}

BCDEDIT -create -d "Windows Recovery Environment" -application OSLOADER --> that returned the GUID: {43f982df-29d7-11e0-b393-00030d588b4f}
BCDEDIT -set {default} recoverysequence {43f982df-29d7-11e0-b393-00030d588b4f}
BCDEDIT -set {43f982df-29d7-11e0-b393-00030d588b4f} device ramdisk=[f:]\sources\boot.wim,{ad6c7bc8-fa0f-11da-8ddf-0013200354d8}
BCDEDIT -set {43f982df-29d7-11e0-b393-00030d588b4f} path \windows\system32\boot\winload.exe
BCDEDIT -set {43f982df-29d7-11e0-b393-00030d588b4f} osdevice ramdisk=[f:]\sources\boot.wim,{ad6c7bc8-fa0f-11da-8ddf-0013200354d8}
BCDEDIT -set {43f982df-29d7-11e0-b393-00030d588b4f} systemroot \windows
BCDEDIT -set {43f982df-29d7-11e0-b393-00030d588b4f} detecthal yes
BCDEDIT -set {43f982df-29d7-11e0-b393-00030d588b4f} nx optin
BCDEDIT -set {43f982df-29d7-11e0-b393-00030d588b4f} winpe yes
BCDEDIT -set {43f982df-29d7-11e0-b393-00030d588b4f} custom:46000010 yes

As i expected, same error again


I will attach 2 txt-files.

BEFORE.TXT (Before applying any command with BCDEDIT.EXE) returned with BCDEDIT /enum all >before.txt
AFTER.TXT (After applying all these commands with BCDEDIT.EXE) returned with BCDEDIT /enum all >after.txt

Attachment doesn´t work at the moment... it will follow!

Help would be appreciated!

Edited by Schiiwa, 30 January 2011 - 05:47 PM.

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#29
Tripredacus

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BIOS->MBR->BOOTMGR->BCD->HotKey pressed->Recovery OS booting (WINRE) ->get data from factory.wim->restore OS

BIOS (motherboard) looks for drives with a MBR so it knows what it can boot.
MBR is the section on the drive that says "this is bootable" or "this is not bootable"
If it is bootable (In Vista's case), The answer is, find BOOTMGR on the active partition.
BOOTMGR looks at BCD to determine where Windows is located
Windows is loaded.

However, if you choose to run recovery, BOOTMGR changes the BCD, to de-activate the OS volume and active the recovery volume. Then BCD says boot to the active partition, which would then have WinRE. This is because the F8 menu is not part of the OS, it is a bootloader itself. I may have that backwards but the idea is the same.

The reason why you are seeing strange files is that Microsoft did not give OEMs a turnkey solution to make recovery partition in Vista. All OEMs HAD to make their own method (rather in Win7 OEM can use turnkey solution or do whatever they want) so there are subtle differences between Vista recovery partitions between different brands of computers. Also, it is possible that your notebook supports an EFI style boot environment.

Also, your answer to #5 is technically incorrect, but I cannot reveal as to where that last option really comes from.
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#30
Schiiwa

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I´ll come back to you later.... Have to try some things!

Project Shiva! Long live Windows 98!!!! :thumbup

Edited by Schiiwa, 19 February 2011 - 09:12 PM.

The only good system is a sound-system !

#31
jaclaz

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If I were you I would (provided that you have FULLY imaged that drive and have thus a "way back"):
  • unhide the now hidden partition (so that it gets a drive letter)
  • verify that it is first partition of first hard disk
  • verify that i tit there are the \sources\boot.wim and boot.sdi files
  • run the SetAutoFailover.cmd ]with command (provided that the unhidden partition is D:\ ):
    SetAutoFailover.cmd /target D: /wim /nohide
    as seen in the given link:
    http://blogs.msdn.co...-hard-disk.aspx

jaclaz

#32
Schiiwa

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[In the post from the 27. january i that, that i tryed it with X: ... that was not right, i tryed it with F:, but i edited it already]

First of all, i made it! I tryed to do it with the Setautofailover! I booted with the Vista-DVD and tryed it in the Command Prompt of the Repair-options!

the called Setautofailover.cmd returned a lot of ERRORS. (attached as screenshot SETWINRE.JPG)

So i had to add 2 entries, which the script didn´t add! It was:
BCDEDIT -set {default} recoveryenabled yes
BCDEDIT -set {default} recoverysequence {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d}
Don´t ask me, why the script didn´t do that job

I used a little canged syntax, because there was that file called &#setwinre.cmd and i thought, that FSC put it there to use it. But it didn´t seem, that it is there to use it again, as the Recovery-Partition has already the ID=27. By the way, the Partition isn´t hiddn! Just the fact, that it has the ID=27, Windows won´t assign a letter to it!
I didn´t want to change anything @ the WinRE-Partition so far. But now, i want to cange the default language to "DE" (German) ... Maybe u can say, what to cange!

The costum recovery-tool, i found in the BOOT.WIM in the directory \sources\recovery\tools\bin\ (i posted a screenshot of the directory in the past, dont know which post)

But the solution is that easy! I used the letter F: because when i boot with the Vista-DVD, go to "REPAIR-OPTIONS" and go to Command-Prompt, F: was the WinRE partition! Instead of that, u have to use the variable [\Device\HarddiskVolume1], as this is the first Partition! (The ID27-Partition)

Just use this commands, to restore the Partition [but u have to adapt the Guid for RAM-disk, the RED-one]

BCDEDIT -set {default} recoveryenabled yes
BCDEDIT -create {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} -d "Windows Recovery Environment" -application OSLOADER
BCDEDIT -set {default} recoverysequence {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d}
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} device ramdisk=[\Device\HarddiskVolume1]\sources\boot.wim,{ad6c7bc8-fa0f-11da-8ddf-0013200354d8}
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} path \windows\system32\boot\winload.exe
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} osdevice ramdisk=[\Device\HarddiskVolume1]\sources\boot.wim,{ad6c7bc8-fa0f-11da-8ddf-0013200354d8}
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} systemroot \windows
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} detecthal yes
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} nx optin
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} winpe yes
BCDEDIT -set {572bcd56-ffa7-11d9-aae0-0007e994107d} custom:46000010 yes


Thats it :]

to Tripredacus:
The answer on Question#5 is correct!!! Winpeshl.ini is the File, which will be used to extract the Directory/File to use, if u choose the recovery option (the last one)
In my case: AppPath=X:\sources\recovery\tools\recoverypackage\bin\FSCPEStart.exe <-- the FSC-recovery-tool

But maybe, it is TECHNICALLY incorrect, as there is shown the pic (PRE.JPG) first, so its maybe a script, that is executed. The bitmap is in that location:
\sources\recovery\tools\recoverypackage\scripts\bootlogo.bmp. In this Folder there are alot of VBS-Scripts. But it is be possible, that is also compiled in the FSCPEStart.exe :yes:
And i like Windows 7 better as well, but my girl-friend has just a license for Vista! thats the problem ;]



MY NEXT PROJECT:

I WILL UPDATE FACTORY.WIM, as the supplyed one is not usable anymore, because SP1 cannot be installed :]

Hope you 2 guys will follow it! I will start a new Thread, it will be called:

Update the Recovery-Partition-WIM ... But first of all, i have to validate some things... Cy@ Later m8z

EDIT: deleted the attachments

Edited by Schiiwa, 22 February 2011 - 07:40 PM.

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#33
Schiiwa

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BIOS->MBR->BOOTMGR->BCD->HotKey pressed->Recovery OS booting (WINRE) ->get data from factory.wim->restore OS

BIOS (motherboard) looks for drives with a MBR so it knows what it can boot.
MBR is the section on the drive that says "this is bootable" or "this is not bootable"
If it is bootable (In Vista's case), The answer is, find BOOTMGR on the active partition.
BOOTMGR looks at BCD to determine where Windows is located
Windows is loaded.

However, if you choose to run recovery, BOOTMGR changes the BCD, to de-activate the OS volume and active the recovery volume. Then BCD says boot to the active partition, which would then have WinRE. This is because the F8 menu is not part of the OS, it is a bootloader itself. I may have that backwards but the idea is the same.


So far so good...


The reason why you are seeing strange files is that Microsoft did not give OEMs a turnkey solution to make recovery partition in Vista. All OEMs HAD to make their own method (rather in Win7 OEM can use turnkey solution or do whatever they want) so there are subtle differences between Vista recovery partitions between different brands of computers. Also, it is possible that your notebook supports an EFI style boot environment.


I just wrote to Jayclaz, that i think, that there is a turnkey solution to make recovery partition in vista over "F8"!

Meanwhile, i read much about the WinRE @ Vista. There is always told, that the WinRE-Partition has to be the first one. The reason is, that the "Letter" for the ID=27-Partition is [\Device\HarddiskVolume1]. I think, that u can also do it as 2nd partition, with [\Device\HarddiskVolume2]. But i nowhere found this information. I found out over the command:

BCDEDIT /enum all

There is a line:
ramdisksdidecive Partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume1

So i tryed it, and it went fine :w00t:

I think that MS deny this information and gets money from the OEMs :realmad:

But thank you anyway. There where alot of useful information in your posts
The only good system is a sound-system !

#34
jaclaz

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I think that MS deny this information and gets money from the OEMs :realmad:

But thank you anyway. There where alot of useful information in your posts

Naah.
No conspiracy,
They are NOT after you, rest assured.
Most probably MS simply "convinced" OEM's that they could give the same kind of money they used to give to the Symantec (Ghost) or PCAngel guys to them instead, having a "native" recovery solution.

Most probably the batch is written to be run from the booted system and not from the PE on the Vista DVD. :unsure:

You in the happy bunny basket now? :yes:

That's good. :)

jaclaz

#35
Tripredacus

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Good you got it to work. I think I see what that winpeshl.ini was doing. Not really sure what that custom app is, but it still executes the WinRE program (recenv.exe) which displays those 6 options. It will default to 5 options (as you know) but there is another file (that's not winpeshl.ini) that tells recenc.exe what to display as the 6th option.
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#36
Schiiwa

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Most probably the batch is written to be run from the booted system and not from the PE on the Vista DVD.


Don´t think so, because if i would run it from my system, the parameter /mainos {current} is just needed, if you run it from the R.-E./P.E. as it is explained in the Setautofailover.cmd

  • echo /mainos (guid of the main OS) [optional]
  • echo Use the specified GUID for the main OS. By default the script
  • echo assumes the current OS. Note -- always specify this option when
  • echo running from WinPE. To configure the default OS in BCD specify
  • echo {default}.

But doesn´t matter to me. I know the BCDEDIT-Commands and thats enough to fix a similar problem!



For me, that is no conspiracy, i call that reality. It is really hard to imagine, whats going on in background in this sick world... Especially everything around money... Believe me :rolleyes:
If you want to assure me of beeing wrong, you have to show me a link of any MS- or OEM-Site, where this parameter is specified [\Device\HarddiskVolume1] to fix the F8-Issue. :D

The operative point is, that the transaction-volume in $ of the OEMs is a little bit higher that Ghost´s, Acronis´, etc.
So Ghost, Acronis etc are not able to deal with MS :whistle:

But i don´t want to dis MS or the OEMs, it is normal to maximize profit :lol:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

The Happy-Bunny-Basket feels good :yes:
The only good system is a sound-system !

#37
jaclaz

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If you want to assure me of beeing wrong, you have to show me a link of any MS- or OEM-Site, where this parameter is specified [\Device\HarddiskVolume1] to fix the F8-Issue. :D

I don't really want to prove you wrong :), when dealing with the good MS guys there is always something that is simply inexplicable. :unsure:

Have you ever read the actual ImageX/wim related dll's license (yes, the one everyone has broken, one time or the other)
http://www.911cd.net...ic=19355&st=132
and my carpenter's comparison?
http://www.911cd.net...ic=19355&st=134

The Happy-Bunny-Basket feels good :yes:

I'll need to upgrade to a bigger basket. ;)

#38
Tripredacus

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and my carpenter's comparison?
http://www.911cd.net...ic=19355&st=134


Were these rules updated since Vista? I am pretty sure that the Windows System Backup tool (that works in conjunction with WinRE) uses Imagex to create system backups in Windows 7.
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#39
jaclaz

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Were these rules updated since Vista? I am pretty sure that the Windows System Backup tool (that works in conjunction with WinRE) uses Imagex to create system backups in Windows 7.

Easy Instructions:
  • get the WAIK
  • open the downloaded .iso with 7-zip
  • find in root file WAIK_License.rtf
  • open it in Wordpad
  • read it ;)

Easier :), download the attached, coming from the KB3AIK_EN.iso I have.

Cannot say if it has changed in the currently downloadable version:
http://www.microsoft...&displaylang=en

If you want to check without downloading the whole .iso, see here:
http://reboot.pro/13049/

jaclaz

Attached Files


Edited by jaclaz, 01 February 2011 - 09:48 AM.


#40
submix8c

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Thx, jaclaz... haven't visited Reboot lately.

(post to keep me "hooked into" the above link - nice tool!)

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#41
Schiiwa

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Thanx for effort, but have Vista-WAIK already installed ^^

Nice concept... but why not simply copy the needed files on the http-server, or simply extract the iso... anyway, there is no compression in ISO-Format ^^

Maybe for mounting the ISO B)

But i don´t care, because i will never use this parameter ;)

And Jayclaz.... here´s a present for you

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Edited by Schiiwa, 01 February 2011 - 10:26 PM.

The only good system is a sound-system !

#42
jaclaz

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Nice concept... but why not simply copy the needed files on the http-server, or simply extract the iso... anyway, there is no compression in ISO-Format ^^

Maybe for mounting the ISO B)

Yep , the idea is that you need NOT download 1.7Gb :w00t: to read a lousy EULA 10 Kb in size.
Expecially if you have a slow connection ....
....and a hard disk filled up to the brim.....

Thanks for the basket, I am sure that it will prove useful. :)

jaclaz

#43
Schiiwa

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Was able to rebuild the Recovery-DVDs. In the Recovery-Package on the Recovery-Partition, there is a visual basic script, which creates a 0-Byte-File! Its called $#Repair\DVD.TAG. Rename this file and the burn-option is available again. But it failed will fail: "823: Variable nicht definiert: 'txtInsertDiskInfo2' " ...

Just add this line...

var txtInsertDiskInfo2 = "Kennzeichnen Sie einen beschreibbaren CD/DVD-Datenträger mit";

in the file \sources\recovery\tools\recoverypackage\scripts\ger\language.js with your own output and it will work again. "ger" can be replaced with your language! Maybe renaming the "DVD.TAG" file is enough, if you choos another language as the first time, because the burning-script will also delete this line. So after burning it is missing again ^^

I ve added it bettween
var txtInsertDiskInfo1 = .....
var txtInsertDiskInfo3 = .....

This is still with the orginal-factory-state of 2006 ^^ Already bought a new hdd due the sectors are clearing away.

Can i copy the raw-image of a 120 gb on a larger drive? Will the system determ the right "unlocated space" in diskmgmt.msc? Would be nice to know, as the USB-Disk is really slow and takes a lot of time!

I am really not sure, if i can use a updated FACTORY.WIM, as the recovery-dvd holds a file called FACTORY0.FPT, which is different to FACTORY.WIM (nearly the same size, but compared with "FC"). But should work, because it has to use Factory.wim as source because of the nearly similar size and fast progress.

Letz have a try.... I think its ok to use imagex for that, because this Laptop was expensive at that time (Nov 2006) and there is a right to an updated system :ph34r:

§ 346 II 1 Nr. 3 GCR (Global Computer Rights)

Edited by Schiiwa, 19 February 2011 - 08:06 PM.

The only good system is a sound-system !

#44
jaclaz

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Can i copy the raw-image of a 120 gb on a larger drive? Will the system determ the right "unlocated space" in diskmgmt.msc? Would be nice to know, as the USB-Disk is really slow and takes a lot of time!

Sure you can. :)
Point is if it's OK to have a 120 Gb "set of partitions" + another one or if you want to extend the "main" partition to "fill" the bigger HD.
If I were you I would dd the image "as is" and in case extend it later (once it has proved to be working).

jaclaz

#45
Schiiwa

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Wasn´t sure, if the geometry is saved in mbr or not. Your answer says, that its not saved ^^ So its just the partition-table, which is included :whistle:

I will delete the DATA D: Partition and increase it to the maximum. As you can see on the image "2. Screen TestDisk" on post #15 on the 1st page, that the structure looks ok (this is still the old HDD), but you said, that the creator of the partition-set has taken bingo-numbers... Why did you say that? Is the start or end of an partition not set correctly. I read somewhere, that the end of an partition has to be at the end of a cluster, sector or zylinder boundary. Or because there is unlocated space between partition 2-3 and between 3-4 ? ^^


Cheers, Chris

And another question is, where is the geometry saved. With testdisk for example, you can change the geometry, but where is it saved. Or will it determed through the OS?
The only good system is a sound-system !

#46
jaclaz

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And another question is, where is the geometry saved. With testdisk for example, you can change the geometry, but where is it saved. Or will it determed through the OS?

One of those questions that can be answered with yes/no/maybe/who knows. :w00t:

The geometry of a "real" device is NOT saved anywhere.

It is the device itself that upon interrogation reveals it's own geometry.

Then the BIOS, or the OS, or BOTH, may decide to EITHER:
  • confirm the device "inherernt" geometry
    OR:
  • change it to whatever it "likes"

  • DOS trusts WHATEVER geometry the device "exposes".
  • Some BIOSes (typical Lenovo laptops) "force" geometry to 240 heads.
  • "Strict" BIOSes (typically BOCHS/QEMU one) force a geometry (on a RAW disk image - i.e. one without an exposed geometry) depending on size reported by device.
  • NT 4.0 would use the "natively" (i.e. when the device, such as a virtual disk, does NOT expose a given geometry, a 64/32 one)
  • 2K and later use "natively" a 255/63 one, but do use the one the BIOS sets in the early phases of booting.
  • Theoretically 2K and later ONLY use LBA access, thus geometry should have NO meaning whatsoever for them BUT, due to legacy code in the MBR and the bootsector, if you use a "wrong geometry" they won't be able to BOOT from the drive.
  • For some operations (loosely connected with the above) TESTDISK needs the "right" geometry, which you can then set inside the program.

The above can be summed up into:

Not only it is a mess but is a largely undocumented and/or misrepresented mess. :(


JFYI:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=23408
http://www.911cd.net...ic=21702&st=129
http://www.boot-land...indpost&p=73205

And, slightly (but not much ;)) OT:
http://reboot.pro/6546/
http://reboot.pro/2246/page__st__15

You do not have to worry as in your case geometry should remain 255x63. :)

Why did you say that? Is the start or end of an partition not set correctly. I read somewhere, that the end of an partition has to be at the end of a cluster, sector or zylinder boundary. Or because there is unlocated space between partition 2-3 and between 3-4 ? ^^

The "right" way - as I see it - is to use the "legacy" Cylinder/Head boundaries.
Of course the good MS guys are not of the same opinion and introduced in Vista :ph34r: a different approach.
In some setups the combined effect of this choice and the stupidity with which the 2K/XP/2003 disk management was made can create serious problems:
http://reboot.pro/9897/

Also, using "sorted partitions is ALWAYS a good idea IMNSHO:
http://reboot.pro/13757/

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 03 February 2011 - 11:08 AM.


#47
Schiiwa

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Hey Jayclaz... Thank you for your elaborate answers, even if i can´t follow everything :}

I read in a german forum:
- that the modern OS doesn´t take care of cyl.-b. because of LBA-Access
- that Vista/7 ignores the cylinder-bounderies, because of the support of SSDs. The Offset is aligned to 1MiB (1024kb).


But in fact, the partition-table-data is virtual... Because there are no 255 heads :crazy:

So if i want to start/end a partition at a cylinder-boundaries, i have to calculate where a real cylinder starts/ends!

My new HDD supports Advanced Format (4KB Sectors). The old one is Nov/2006 --> 512byte-sectors
It is to be feared, that the image won´t work as the Laptop is from 2006. But the hdd´s firmware will do it, i hope

New WD-drives even have a jumper to make the drive compatible to XP !? Just read the first time ^^ ... Here´s the source:
http://www.ibm.com/d...sks/#benchmarks
The effect is shifting the sectors by 1

I´ll try Advanced Format Software, which helps to align the partitions :)

Maybe this is not the suitable thread, but i think, its ok, if anybody can´t access the "repair" option through a HDD-crash (the IDE-HDD of my own, ancient notebook becomes not initalizised any more, with XP without recoverypartition :thumbup But had a hidden partition with a Image of the C-Drive on it... :realmad:


Kind regards.... chris


P.S.: One of those questions that can be answered with yes/no/maybe/who knows. :w00t:

I think to remember I´ve read about a year ago that the firmware of the hdd is also involved in handling the geometry, too

Edited by Schiiwa, 03 February 2011 - 08:28 PM.

The only good system is a sound-system !

#48
jaclaz

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I read in a german forum:
- that the modern OS doesn´t take care of cyl.-b. because of LBA-Access
- that Vista/7 ignores the cylinder-bounderies, because of the support of SSDs. The Offset is aligned to 1MiB (1024kb).

Well, you can read the first also here:

  • 2K and later use "natively" a 255/63 one, but do use the one the BIOS sets in the early phases of booting.
  • Theoretically 2K and later ONLY use LBA access, thus geometry should have NO meaning whatsoever for them BUT, due to legacy code in the MBR and the bootsector, if you use a "wrong geometry" they won't be able to BOOT from the drive.

And the second is mainly nonsense, the new alignment originally derived from access optimization on databases and was adopted mainly for that reason and with compatibility with new sector sized HD's in mind (more theoretical than practical in everyday use), nothing to do with SSD's I am afraid:
http://www.msfn.org/...-to-the-sector/
http://msdn.microsof...y/dd758814.aspx

http://reboot.pro/9897/page__st__40
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2888

jaclaz

#49
Schiiwa

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I hope it wouldn´t have been that easily in Vista also...

http://www.sevenforu...ronment-f8.html

Will try and post back ^^
The only good system is a sound-system !

#50
Schiiwa

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I hope it wouldn´t have been that easily in Vista also...

http://www.sevenforu...ronment-f8.html

Will try and post back ^^


Won´t work @ Vista :sneaky:

Another (i think the last one) question related to the 4kb-sector-thing


I ran "fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo C:" and the output with the new HDD is the same as the old one: Bytes per sector: 512

Is this because of cloning from an "old" drive or just normal. Does Windows emulate 512kb-sectors


Cheers,
The only good system is a sound-system !




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