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Windows 7 Start Menu (no flames this time)


pepak

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Yes, I know there already is a topic for Start Menu, but it seems to have deteriorated to flames and name-calling. I would like to keep this factual, please.

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My questions:

1) Apparently it isn't possible to revert back to "classic" menu. I suppose I can live with that, but one thing I just can't stand is the new system of submenus opening within the limited space of the Start <emi; I much prefer the old system of submenus where each opens to the right of its parent, eventually filling the whole screen with menus (because it makes it very easy to see where am I in the menu hierarchy). Is it possible to get the submenus "outside the box"?

2) I am not too happy with search. It is a fine idea in principle, probably useful for many people, but not for me - as it is now, I have the menus organized in such a way it takes three (four) keypresses to start any program - e.g. [sTART] [P]rograms nternet [F]irefox. I don't mind the extra [ENTER] of the search-based Start Menu too much, but I just can't fathom how the search actually works:

a) It seems to use some sort of full-text search: If I type "pad" in the search box, it finds a great number of control panel applets (none of which have "pad" anywhere in their title, as far as I can see - "View devices and printers", "Device manager", "How to add new hardware" etc.) but it doesn't find either Notepad or Wordpad. What are the criteria for finding an application?

b) Another thing, the sort order seems to be somewhat "mutable" (my guess is that it will place the "most often started" applications at the top). Is it possible to change the ordering? As far as I am concerned, the optimal order would be "files starting with typed text, alphabetically, then files containing the typed text, also alphabetically" (right now, if I search for "not", I get "Sticky Notes", then "Notepad"), but I can live with anything that is fixed (I want to be able to start programs quickly, without having to look at the screen; memorizing [sTART] N O [ARROW-DOWN] [ENTER] is fine, but [sTART] N O [look at the screen and continue accordingly] is not).

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1) Apparently it isn't possible to revert back to "classic" menu. I suppose I can live with that, but one thing I just can't stand is the new system of submenus opening within the limited space of the Start <emi; I much prefer the old system of submenus where each opens to the right of its parent, eventually filling the whole screen with menus (because it makes it very easy to see where am I in the menu hierarchy). Is it possible to get the submenus "outside the box"?
Yes, you could conceivably create a folder structure as the "start menu" used to be, and then add that folder as a toolbar to the superbar (I've done this, just to see that it can be done). It's not quite the same, but it does work.
2) I am not too happy with search. It is a fine idea in principle, probably useful for many people, but not for me - as it is now, I have the menus organized in such a way it takes three (four) keypresses to start any program - e.g. [sTART] [P]rograms nternet [F]irefox. I don't mind the extra [ENTER] of the search-based Start Menu too much, but I just can't fathom how the search actually works:

a) It seems to use some sort of full-text search: If I type "pad" in the search box, it finds a great number of control panel applets (none of which have "pad" anywhere in their title, as far as I can see - "View devices and printers", "Device manager", "How to add new hardware" etc.) but it doesn't find either Notepad or Wordpad. What are the criteria for finding an application?

B) Another thing, the sort order seems to be somewhat "mutable" (my guess is that it will place the "most often started" applications at the top). Is it possible to change the ordering? As far as I am concerned, the optimal order would be "files starting with typed text, alphabetically, then files containing the typed text, also alphabetically" (right now, if I search for "not", I get "Sticky Notes", then "Notepad"), but I can live with anything that is fixed (I want to be able to start programs quickly, without having to look at the screen; memorizing [sTART] N O [ARROW-DOWN] [ENTER] is fine, but [sTART] N O [look at the screen and continue accordingly] is not).

By default, search uses contextual search - it searches indexed locations (including the start menu's contents) for applications, files, and text inside files. And for B, yes the order is basically as you see, and unfortunately this is coded into the shell .dlls, so to change this would involve rewriting the .dll files (there are no reg keys or other settings you can modify, currently, to change this behavior - it is similar to what you see in the IE address bar with regards to laying out favorites vs previously-typed URL history, etc).
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1) Apparently it isn't possible to revert back to "classic" menu. I suppose I can live with that, but one thing I just can't stand is the new system of submenus opening within the limited space of the Start <emi; I much prefer the old system of submenus where each opens to the right of its parent, eventually filling the whole screen with menus (because it makes it very easy to see where am I in the menu hierarchy). Is it possible to get the submenus "outside the box"?
Yes, you could conceivably create a folder structure as the "start menu" used to be, and then add that folder as a toolbar to the superbar (I've done this, just to see that it can be done). It's not quite the same, but it does work.

That's not a half bad idea. Is there any way to remove the start button like you can in XP and prior through a registry hack or whatnot?

Thanks,

Edited by ハイドン
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Well, I have to admit, now I'm a "Start Menu" convert. I usually used the Classic Menu, but I gave it a shot to Windows 7's menu. The result is that I'm now using the normal Start Menu in Vista. The Windows key plus two or three letters from the name of the program you want to execute is really good. BTW, I believe the Start menu could be disabled thru Group Policies, but I'm not sure...

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Papek,

I personally love the ability to search for programs by their names however I agree that the "All Programs" opening in the limited space of the start menu is less functional than the old XP version.

Again, I find that I have almost no use for the All Programs menu but I do have a workaround for you.

Right click on the taskbar and open Properties.

Go to the Start Menu Tab, and click Cistomize.

On the very bottom you have "Number of recent programs to display"

If you increase that number to around 20 you'll have a much larger start menu and it'll be easier to scan through all your programs.

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Well, I have to admit, now I'm a "Start Menu" convert. I usually used the Classic Menu, but I gave it a shot to Windows 7's menu. The result is that I'm now using the normal Start Menu in Vista. The Windows key plus two or three letters from the name of the program you want to execute is really good. BTW, I believe the Start menu could be disabled thru Group Policies, but I'm not sure...

There's an option in Group Policy to FORCE ENABLE CLASSIC START MENU, but it doesn't work at all, when ENABLED. :(

Edited by Win2k3EE
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Well, I have to admit, now I'm a "Start Menu" convert. I usually used the Classic Menu, but I gave it a shot to Windows 7's menu. The result is that I'm now using the normal Start Menu in Vista. The Windows key plus two or three letters from the name of the program you want to execute is really good. BTW, I believe the Start menu could be disabled thru Group Policies, but I'm not sure...

There's an option in Group Policy to FORCE ENABLE CLASSIC START MENU, but it doesn't work at all, when ENABLED. :(

That's because classic start menu does not exist in Win7, at all. You can't force it if it doesn't exist ;).

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I know, but I hope MS will put Classic Start Menu as an option there in the RTM build...

No, all the old Win9x-era start menu and shell code is finally gone.

I hope you are completely wrong, Cluberti.

Since the new start menu functions the way it does, and is bloated on the right hand side with lots of useless (to me) options, my tailored start menu is removed of all that right-hand bloat, and that makes the overall new start menu size very small. And well, that means this annoying "in this pane only" view is very very very very very restricted in the amount of data shown. That means wayyyyyyy to much time spent "scrolling" the list in a tiny tiny window. To me, that is highly counter-productive.

Old school start menu is the best, and given the amount of threads on numerous forums, a vast majority of people agree.

I blame new style start menu on this "touch" movement. After all, this new start menu is pretty much tailored to touch users only.

Edited by Mt.Dew
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I hope you are completely wrong, Cluberti.

Since the new start menu functions the way it does, and is bloated on the right hand side with lots of useless (to me) options, my tailored start menu is removed of all that right-hand bloat, and that makes the overall new start menu size very small. And well, that means this annoying "in this pane only" view is very very very very very restricted in the amount of data shown. That means wayyyyyyy to much time spent "scrolling" the list in a tiny tiny window. To me, that is highly counter-productive.

Old school start menu is the best, and given the amount of threads on numerous forums, a vast majority of people agree.

I blame new style start menu on this "touch" movement. After all, this new start menu is pretty much tailored to touch users only.

Well, one man's useless is another man's treasure (I personally very much enjoy integrated search and the superbar dock - the old start menu was clunky and inefficient. Yes, it reinforced motor memory on how to get somewhere in your start menu, but it wasn't efficient). And, I guess unfortunately for some, the code is no longer there, I am sure of that.

And I would disagree about threads on forums confirming your view that the classic start menu is the best - the most vocal are almost always the minority, very rarely is it someone who likes something that goes out and pontificates on it's goodness, rather it's the minority malcontents that complain about what was. Noise does not denote majority, only noise.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am suggesting that you are potentially in the minority. If you like classic, you're probably stuck with Vista or finding a way to replace the shell in Win7 (perhaps Stardock will have a way to do this when they are Win7 compliant).

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