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substituting IDE drivers during boot

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#1
Ninho

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While launching Windows from the original CD for repairs or installation : is there a way to specify a plain IDE disk controller (not SCSI, RAId or anything fancier...) in replacement for the ones built-in (atapi.sys, intelide.sys, pciide.sys, pciidex.sys, etc.) ? One good reason to do that would be the bug described in Microsoft's KB article 254769. Oh, wait ! MS was so ashamed it *removed* the article from its servers! Webarchive is our friend : <http://web.archive.o...m/?kbid=254769>

So, please... how can we build a driver diskette including a substitute intelide.sys (for instance) and have it loaded by Windows using the [F6] procedure ? How would we write the appropriate TXTSETUP.OEM - along with any other required files ?


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#2
jaclaz

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So, please... how can we build a driver diskette including a substitute intelide.sys (for instance) and have it loaded by Windows using the [F6] procedure ? How would we write the appropriate TXTSETUP.OEM - along with any other required files ?


:unsure:

The referenced KB is an oldish one, (possibly a remnant of NT 4.00 HD detection in Win2K) and it involved ATAPI.SYS.

Intelide.sys is a "controller driver", intelide.sys is a "replacement" for pciide.sys:
http://support.micro...kb/322359/en-us

Intelide.sys, pciide.sys, pciidex.sys are in the Registry "System Bus Extender"

atapi.sys is the ATA/IDE miniport driver, and is in the Registry "SCSI miniport"

Which one do you want to change/replace, and for what actual reason?

Maybe unrelated, but FYI:
http://alter.org.ua/...ft/win/uni_ata/

jaclaz

P.S.: sometyhing still seemingly unrelated, but that may be useful ;):
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=22313
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=21867
http://www.911cd.net...o...c=22523&hl=

Edited by jaclaz, 14 February 2009 - 05:31 AM.


#3
Ninho

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Hi ! :hello:

The referenced KB is an oldish one, (possibly a remnant of NT 4.00 HD detection in Win2K) and it involved ATAPI.SYS.


Not a remnant, it's a bug in Windows 2000 original, all versions (corrected in SP1).
It's awful because it strikes under ill defined conditions (the kb article is neither precise nor correct in this respect) - affects a probably small but really impossible to evaluate proportion of systems.
As it happens, VMware virtual machines may be affected too.

IMHO opinion that bug is comparable to the infamous disaster with MS DOS 4.0 randomly trashing disks due to a coding error in the FAT handler. Will MS ever change ?

Intelide.sys, pciide.sys, pciidex.sys are in the Registry "System Bus Extender"
atapi.sys is the ATA/IDE miniport driver, and is in the Registry "SCSI miniport"

Which one do you want to change/replace, and for what actual reason?


One or several of those. I am asking if it's possible to replace them on the fly when booting from a CD, and how. Indeed I'm sure I read sometime you can do it and it might be tricky, wasn't especially interested then...

Maybe unrelated, but FYI:
http://alter.org.ua/...ft/win/uni_ata/

I saw that one too. Shall have a peek at your other links

...

P.S : I'm not especially after a way to circumvent the bug - I only mentionned it as a motivation, and because the kb article is important and was nuked by the Redmond police :( This question is how do you change IDE drivers at boot time, bug or no bug :=)

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#4
pointertovoid

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Hello friends!

I believe you could substitute most drivers for disk adapters with an F6 diskette, but... There's a far better way! If this bug has been improved by a Service Pack, then make yourself a CD with integrated SP4! It has many more advantages, especially when repairing Win.


Your have two relatively simple options (for a French W2k), and there are more complicated ones.

The first is to do what Microsoft has foreseen for you. Copy your W2k CD to your HDD, apply the Sp4 to this copy (option /integrate), extract the CD's boot sector and burn a new CD with the boot sector and the updated copy. You now have an authentic W2ksp4 installation CD.

If you prefer French:
http://www.bellamyjc...cdbootable.html
http://www.generatio...vec-sp4-integre

Every patch for W2k and its original components can be integrated this way, especially the Rollup 1 and security patches for W2k - this includes ie5, Wmp6, dX7 and the others. But not ie6, Wmp9, dX9 and other pieces that didn't ship with W2k.

The other simple possibility is to use Hfslip to make a CD that install everything the way you want: the CD can include ie6, Wmp9 and its codecs, dX9, Dotnet and nearly anything you want. To my taste a better solution, especially for repairs. Detailed on msfn.org.

Both options are faster than writing or adapting your own F6 diskette.

#5
Ninho

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Dear fellow citizen

There's a far better way! If this bug has been improved by a Service Pack, then make yourself a CD with integrated SP4! It has many more advantages, especially when repairing Win.

Your have two relatively simple options (for a French W2k), and there are more complicated ones.


You are absolutely right, of course, and in actual deed I made such a slipstreamed W2k w/ SP4 CD long ago :=)

Both options are faster than writing or adapting your own F6 diskette.


Probably so. But take notice, s'il vous plaƮt : I want to learn how to make an F6 diskette with IDE controllers. This is the whole point of this thread ! Could you point me to a how-to ?

#6
jaclaz

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I mean an oldish bug, meaning an oldish bug:
SP1 for Win2K was released in december 2000 or january 2001

Now, if you are still using a non SP3 or SP4 source, you do have far greater problems than that bug.

@pointertovoid
Bonjour :hello: , Monsieur de La Palice :):
http://en.wikipedia....es_de_la_Palice

@Ninho
Still, I don't get fully what the problem is.
Drivers usually come with their own TXTSETUP.OEM and instructions on how to make a F6 floppy.
Maybe reading between the lines of this:
http://www.911cd.net...?showtopic=1543

will help you :unsure::
TXTSETUP.OEM is a file with the .inf structure:
http://www.wd-3.com/...ve/InfFiles.htm

http://www.osronline...tsetup_1wmq.htm

A practical example:
http://www.msfn.org/...showtopic=81659

jaclaz

#7
Ninho

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@ Jaclaz : thx for the quotes, which may eventually help in doing the F6 diskette. The additional, specific, problem here, is that Windows won't honour [F6]-inserted drivers for standard IDE controllers, silently choosing the built-in ones instead (albeit buggy) ! I'm sure I saw a discussion and way to circumvent that stupid behaviour, way back while I wasn't concerned enough to make a note at the time.

Still, I don't get fully what the problem is.
Drivers usually come with their own TXTSETUP.OEM and instructions on how to make a F6 floppy.


But the standard IDE drivers don't come so packaged - mainly for the reason stated above. MS never thought you'd want to replace them. Now for what I wish to achieve : devise a process for using the original (=buggy) 2k pro CD, such as for install or repair, on motherboards which do trigger the kb254769 bug. There seems to be no other way out than to replace the built-in IDE drivers during the text-based phase of setup (or recovery console) and of course later too.

Regards

#8
jaclaz

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Then you have to do this in two steps.

First remove from TXTSETUP.SIF the "generic" drivers. (thus producing an unbootable without F6 files install CD)

Then create the F6 floppy.

The info in the referenced threads should be enough.

But yet, and I know I may seem a bit tough, it seems to me like you are beating a dead horse, kb254769 has been fixed seven years ago.

If you experience the same or a similar bug, it would be a good reason for this experiment :) , but if you are going to try installing a "gold" Win2K on a particular motherboard and HD combo that "gives" 15 heads, and that you know suffers form this - normally extremely rare - bug, you are looking for trouble :ph34r: , unneededly, as I see it.

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 15 February 2009 - 12:08 PM.


#9
Ninho

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Yes I know I'm flogging dead horses, so to say. But this is an experiment, in your own words. Please bear with me a little more ;=)

Then you have to do this in two steps.

First remove from TXTSETUP.SIF the "generic" drivers. (thus producing an unbootable without F6 files install CD)


That's a fine idea, but we want to use the original, read only, CD (did I forgot to state it ?)

Nonetheless I'll be trying your method using an ISO for CD in a VM that exhibits the flaw

If you experience the same or a similar bug, it would be a good reason for this experiment :) , but if you are going to try installing a "gold" Win2K on a particular motherboard and HD combo that "gives" 15 heads, and that you know suffers form this - normally extremely rare - bug, you are looking for trouble :ph34r:


Some trouble for sure ! Oh, by the way it's not necessarily 15 heads.

Thank you very much Jaclaz !

Edited by Ninho, 15 February 2009 - 01:04 PM.


#10
jaclaz

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I was suggesting something a bit different, sorry if I was not clear. :blushing:

I meant, remove "generic" drivers from TXTSETUP.SIF and create an F6 floppy with them.

Test on a normal, not-affected by the bug machine.

Install the "normal" CD.

Make an image of the install.

Start a new VM, install the "hacked" CD + the F6 floppy with the generic drivers.

Compare the new install with the previous "normal" one.

This way you can be sure that you managed to create a "good" F6 floppy disk.

Once you are sure that this work, we will talk about something else, like using the (4 for win2K, 6 for XP) floppies set to install, it should be possible :unsure: to thus avoid "changing" the install CD. ;)

jaclaz

#11
Ninho

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I was suggesting something a bit different, sorry if I was not clear. :blushing:


You shouldn't have to blush, must be me :blushing:

/snippage.../

This way you can be sure that you managed to create a "good" F6 floppy disk.

Once you are sure that this work, we will talk about something else, like using the (4 for win2K, 6 for XP) floppies set to install, it should be possible :unsure: to thus avoid "changing" the install CD. ;)


Ahem, there's "du pain sur ma planche" - a lot on my plate... Thanks again, shall call back later

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