[winxpi]

Hello I'm very concerned about the number of Win98 users visiting the website of the Windows 98 Upgrade Pack (http://bpa23.host.sk/wupg.html)

I mean sure theres a world wide crisis since Autum 2008 but I think Windows 98 systems would rather not fall in the category of an victim of the crisis.
Sure this didn't hapen the first time that the number of visitors shrinked drastically like from January 2008 to February 2008
where over 1000 visitors where lost (but that was because of the unavailability of the old domain www.wupg98.co1.at which doesn't exist anymore) in that time it was logical that the missing domain which everyone knew but didn't exist anymore lead to these visitor loses.
The real global problem are the user shrinkings since autum 2008.

The dropping visitor figure cannot be found logically by missing links of websites.
SO DID ANYONE else notice shrinking visitor figures (maybe 98 users are much less than before?) ???
Or was it maybe just a website marketing mistake done

Here you see the figures I mean:

Statistics 2008 of the Upgrade Pack Website

Jan 1339

Feb 273 (www.wupg98.co1.at is unavailable 70% of all visitors normally used the now missing link)

Mar 521 (some visitors recovered through links on http://www.mdgx.com/ and the new http://www.w98upg.net.tf domain)

Apr 656

May 510

Jun 762 (high point since february collapse)

Jul 677

Aug 669

Sep 631

Oct 277 (ok the visitors shrinked quite that can happen sometimes)

Nov 98 (but what's happening now?!!!)

Dec 81

Year 2009

Jan 57

Feb 75

Mar 34

Apr 46

This post has been edited by winxpi: 26 April 2009 - 01:52 PM

[CoffeeFiend]

winxpi, on Apr 26 2009, 03:47 PM, said:

maybe 98 users are much less than before?

Win98 has a 0.19% market share as of last month, and if the trend continues this month's report (which will be out in 5 days) should indicate around 0.17% (below 0.1% within a few months). See for yourself here. I haven't seen a single Win9x box in many years myself, even XP is quickly losing popularity.

[RetroOS]

Yep! A dying breed...
Holding on by our finger nails!

According to Market Share, the entire Windows 9x (March 2009) usage is:

Windows 95 = 0.01%
Windows 98 = 0.19%
Windows Me = 0.12%

So, Windows 9x = 0.32%

Dying, but not dead!

[Multibooter]

RetroOS, on Apr 27 2009, 02:02 AM, said:

So, Windows 9x = 0.32%

This may make Win9x safe for the Internet. Which hacker or governmental spy agency would want to develop new malware to attack a tiny disappearing minority of 0.32% ?

Furthermore, the knowhow about Win9x seems to be disappearing rapidly.<snip />

This post has been edited by Yzöwl: 27 April 2009 - 12:58 PM
Reason for edit: Unnecessary discussion regarding 'things illegal' removed

[Atmosphere XG]

We need to also keep in mind that Computer Hardware is the biggest obstacle these days. Finding products that are backwards compatible is not as easy as say 1 - 2 years ago. With most of the old Computer Hardware shops gone, it becomes even harder to find products that will adapt to Windows 98.

[rloew]

Multibooter, on Apr 27 2009, 01:53 PM, said:

RetroOS, on Apr 27 2009, 02:02 AM, said:

So, Windows 9x = 0.32%

This may make Win9x safe for the Internet. Which hacker or governmental spy agency would want to develop new malware to attack a tiny disappearing minority of 0.32% ?

Furthermore, the knowhow about Win9x seems to be disappearing rapidly.<snip />

Definitely,

I recently got one of my XP setups infected with WIN32:Vitro and it spread though one of my shares into a 98SE system where it promptly died. The damaged executable led me to discover the infection in the XP system.

[cyberformer]

Windows 95 = 0.01%
Windows 98 = 0.19%
Windows Me = 0.12%

Can anyone here come up with an approximate number of people, those stats above come out to?

I would like, if possible, to know the numbers (in the millions I would think) for each of the above.

I'm not so great working with persentages!

[CoffeeFiend]

cyberformer, on Apr 27 2009, 11:54 PM, said:

I would like, if possible, to know the numbers (in the millions I would think) for each of the above.

Stats say there are about 1,463,632,361 users total. Aprils' expected, combined Win9x market share (report out in a couple days) should be around 0.28%. 0.28% of 1,463,632,361 is about 4 million (most of which are likely in 3rd world countries)

Another way to put it, 4 million still use Win9x (all versions combined), whereas 1460 million don't. Also worth noting, Win9x market share is dropping by about 500000 users a month, using those numbers again (0.54% in Oct 08, 0.31% in Mar 09 so 0.23% less in 6 months, or 0.038333333... % less per month, times 1,463,632,361 users = 561059 less users/month average) At the current rate, within 6 months, it'll be under a million and under 0.1%

winxpi, on Apr 26 2009, 03:47 PM, said:

The real global problem are the user shrinkings since autum 2008.

I had missed that. And nope, it's been shrinking all along, for many years. If anything, it's shrinking slower than before i.e. between quarters 3 and 4 in 2006, Win9x went from 3.61% down to 2.87, losing 0.74% in 4 months, or 0.185%/month --about 5x faster than now. You're likely only noticing now, as there's barely anyone left still using it.

Here's the curves (along with Win2k and Linux) for the last couple years.

As you can see, Win2k is quickly getting there too (haven't seen a single win2k box in 3 or 4 years or so either -- I can't even remember how far back is the last time I've seen a Win9x box!)

[cyberformer]

Thanks CoffeeFiend-----!!!

You made it clearer than I expected.
All I can say is----that however disheartened this makes me, it certainly does not deter me,
from continuing to use.... Windows 95! and, Windows 98! and, Windows98Se! and, yes, Windows Me!

Thanks again for the info.

[Multibooter]

Atmosphere XG, on Apr 27 2009, 04:50 PM, said:

We need to also keep in mind that Computer Hardware is the biggest obstacle these days. Finding products that are backwards compatible is not as easy as say 1 - 2 years ago. With most of the old Computer Hardware shops gone, it becomes even harder to find products that will adapt to Windows 98.

Yes, it's the last call to buy Win98 hardware. Win98-compatible hardware is getting harder to find at ebay, ebay has changed, fewer individuals are selling their old stuff there now, it's mainly ebay shops offering new stuff.

Time permitting, my current best source of Win98-compatible hardware is -- garage sales/neighborhood sales, but only when I specifically ask: "Do you have any old Win98 stuff?". People usually ask me then "What are you using that for?" After I explain, they look in the house for old goodies.

Last week, for example, I got for $40 a hardly-ever used Epson ink jet Stylus Photo 1280 printer, for very large paper size (up to 13"x19", larger than tabloid), works nicely under Win98 (Epson in contrast to HP still has their Win98 drivers on their website ); the successor model 1400 does not work under Win98 anymore. Also a bunch of original Win98 software CDs for 25 cents each: Adobe Photoshop Elements v2.0.2 CD+reg code (probably the last build for Win98), WinME Upgrade CD+reg code, Win98SE OEM CDs+reg code, Win95 CD with USB Support+reg code (25 cents, that's what people apparently think Win9x is worth ).

Only about one in every twenty places still has any Win98 stuff left, pretty soon some Win98 items may become rare collectibles. Another source of Win98-compatible hardware may be craigslist.org I went twice to a large swap meet recently, but didn't find there any Win98-compatible hardware of interest.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 28 April 2009 - 03:43 AM

[Multibooter]

rloew, on Apr 27 2009, 08:24 PM, said:

I recently got one of my XP setups infected with WIN32:Vitro and it spread though one of my shares into a 98SE system where it promptly died

The last infection I had on my Win98 system was a trojan 5 years ago, but instead of spying on me, it blocked the LPT printer port and was quickly discovered.

[RetroOS]

CoffeeFiend, on Apr 28 2009, 04:24 PM, said:

...
Win9x went from 3.61% down to 2.87, losing 0.74% in 4 months, or 0.185%/month --about 5x faster than now. You're likely only noticing now, as there's barely anyone left still using it.
...

Yeah, they're all here on MSFN (hehe).
I don't know anyone where I am who is using anything less than Windows XP now!!!

I feel like the Lone Ranger of Operating System Land!

Why do people collect old stamps, coins, books?
Why do people take an old car and do it up to working again?
Why do people repair old houses, buildings, boats?
Why do people collect music from the 60's?

Why do people keep old operating systems going?

My PC runs Windows XP fine, but I rarely work in it.
I like Windows 98SE!

Kids today don't know what a command prompt is, or have ever seen DOS.
When Windows 98SE was all the rage, they were playing in their sand boxes...

Times change, but not everyone changes with it...
Well, maybe this year is going to be the last gasps of Windows 9x?

It's funny though - My Windows 98SE doesn't have an expiry!

[Rjecina]

I can't agree with point that we are having compatible hardware problem.

Even today is possible to buy in computer shops components which are supporting Windows 98 SE with official drivers. Problem is software support which has ended !

It is not important how good, or how nice is computer if he is without software support he is DEAD and this is today situation with Windows 98 SE which is supporting "only" DirectX 9 and it is using single core !

This post has been edited by Rjecina: 29 April 2009 - 01:06 AM

[BenoitRen]

"Multibooter" said:

This may make Win9x safe for the Internet.

Oh please. Security through obscurity is never the answer. Old worms and viruses still roam the Internet as well.

"Rjecina" said:

It is not important how good, or how nice is computer if he is without software support he is DEAD and this is today situation with Windows 98 SE which is supporting "only" DirectX 9 and it is using single core !

You're assuming that old software without support isn't usable and that everyone needs multiple processors cores. I don't think we do.

"only" DirectX 9? I would like to point out that DirectX 10 is still relatively recent, especially on Windows XP.

Software support isn't dead yet, by the way. Commercially, perhaps, but not open-source.

[rloew]

Multibooter, on Apr 28 2009, 04:58 AM, said:

Epson in contrast to HP still has their Win98 drivers on their website

Lexmark also pulled all of their Windows 98 drivers.
Fortunately both announced in advance that they were removing them so I did a download ALL on the driver sections of their websites.
It took a few months to download over 700GB and the deadline passed while I was doing it. I downloaded the most important parts first so I don't think I missed anything important.

Interestingly, HP still had Windows 3.1 drivers when I last looked at their website.

[winxpi]

"Multibooter" said:

This may make Win9x safe for the Internet.

Nope.
The Win98 system which is used by grandparents for internet now also got infected some weaks ago by some kind of trojan/virus.
Windows 2000 was installed later then,but with IE5 which really sucks.

We can only bundle and use the Windows 2000 made IE6 SP1 updates which also run on 98 if we want to have an as save as possible Windows98 (SE).
Or surf the web with non IE.
I also wanted to compile new IE6 SP1 Cummulative updates for japanese version if I had time, because many visitors are also japanes on the website from x-mas. But I've got less time .
So I've not even got time to check the newest one for my system yet.

Well I can't find a reason for the high shrinking of visits except maybe people which came into the crisis now stopped using 98 or don't have the time anymore to look for updates on 9x systems, maybe thats a reason.

This post has been edited by winxpi: 28 April 2009 - 11:40 AM

[Multibooter]

Rjecina, on Apr 28 2009, 03:08 AM, said:

I can't agree with point that we are having compatible hardware problem. Even today is possible to buy in computer shops components for which are supporting Windows 98 SE with official drivers.

Not in California. 2 weeks ago I checked at Office Depot, Staples and the big computer chain store Fry's - they had not a single Win98-compatible printer left anymore, not even old returns or reburbished printers in their back rooms. Zilch. Nothing. Nada.

[Multibooter]

rloew, on Apr 28 2009, 10:04 AM, said:

Lexmark also pulled all of their Windows 98 drivers.

So has Netgear.

This basically makes older hardware by HP, Lexmark and Netgear worthless, unless one is prepared to spend long hours searching for the right driver. Any other manufacturers to add to the list?

[Multibooter]

BenoitRen, on Apr 28 2009, 09:59 AM, said:

Old worms and viruses still roam the Internet as well.

I wouldn't be afraid of these cute old-timers, they are just too well known and too easily detected.

With Win98 and old applications disappearing rapidly, many of these old worms and viruses should be dying out in the wild.

[herbalist]

I question the accuracy of the percentages for each type of OS. If that info is obtained from checking the user agent, they could be way off. Most 9X users I know aren't browsing with IE6. They're using an alternate such as SeaMonkey, K-Meleon, etc. Several of these enable the user to spoof the user agent, either directly or by using an extension or free-standing app like Proxomitron as an aid for dealing with sites that don't work properly with 9X systems. I would guess that most 9X users have run into such sites and know how to spoof the user agent.