[Fredledingue]

"herbalist" said:

I still suspect that the real hatred for 9X comes from commercial sources who don't like the unlimited system access that 9X and DOS gives its users.

The same commercial source that tries to infect your computer with unwanted stuffs, to remind to buy their products or semi-legal datas miners.
This is quiet possible.
With newer version of windows it became harder and harder to make manual changes in your system. But viruses still d as they please.

"herbalist" said:

I'm presently setting up batch files that will automate maintenance work, do file system and registry backups and restoring, and more.

With my Installed Files Checker, I started developing a full system backup/restore application, but I dropped developement because for w98 it's simply overkill.
I just do a back up of all the files on a dvd (would fit on a single CD if not for a few large softwares in Program Files), and if something happen I'll just have to restore manualy the files that has changed. Or the whole thing.

But still didn't have a virus for ages since I disable activeX and flash when I surf the net using Maxthon. I also flat out disable scripts when I'm visiting potentialy dangerous places or when I just want it to go faster.
I also disable html and suspicious attachements in OE. And I never use WMP which is a worm hole IMO.
We don't need all these stuffs. Flash movies and YouTube suck anyway.

[cannie]

Fredledingue, on May 1 2009, 10:00 PM, said:

With newer version of windows it became harder and harder to make manual changes in your system. But viruses still do as they please.

IMHO most of the "improvements" are directed towards forcing the user to be more and more dependent and in the hands of the "improvers".

In this matter "new" and "better" are words with very different and in many occasions even opposite meanings.

This post has been edited by cannie: 01 May 2009 - 03:27 PM

[herbalist]

Fredledingue said:

herbalist said:

I'm presently setting up batch files that will automate maintenance work, do file system and registry backups and restoring, and more.

With my Installed Files Checker, I started developing a full system backup/restore application, but I dropped development because for w98 it's simply overkill.

I've had one for 98 that's called from autoexec.bat and overwrites the existing registry files and autostart folder with cleaned and optimized copies. An independent DOS image lets me do the same with both 98s and 2K. The only other ones that are/will be for 98 are ones for switching which OS version will be loaded and for OS backup and restoring purposes plus one more for general maintenance. I've pretty much stopped using Acronis for this in favor of 7zip. Smaller archives, easily divided up for different purposes, editable from Windows and DOS, and can run in the background of one OS when restoring another, while I do something else.

Fredledingue said:

herbalist said:

I still suspect that the real hatred for 9X comes from commercial sources who don't like the unlimited system access that 9X and DOS gives its users.

The same commercial source that tries to infect your computer with unwanted stuffs, to remind to buy their products or semi-legal datas miners.
This is quiet possible.
With newer version of windows it became harder and harder to make manual changes in your system. But viruses still d as they please.

That's a big part of who I'd expect to be behind it. Add in any company or organization involved in copyright protection and anti-piracy, example: Sony's anti-piracy rootkit. Being able to access the entire file system with DOS enables the user to defeat most of this unwanted material. Even when "new" really does mean "better", it's often just when it's used on new systems and doesn't improve anything for those with older systems and/or hardware. I've worked hard to keep my operating systems as light and fast as possible. Every OS I run takes up less than 1.5GB, save for one, the 98FE system with way too much installed in it.
Rick

[cannie]

After installing a new version of some products on Windows XP I realized that the previous version was better for me than the upgrade. Improvements are almost in all cases done at the cost of something, and for me the cost was higher than the presumed advantages of it.

When I tried to reinstall the previous version, I found that I was not allowed to go back. I had been caught into the "valve system" which only allows you to go forward and never backwards, without any previous warning.

There are also commercial interests behind viruses, no doubt about it.

Putting together all these things, and some others that you all know, concludes that you are being manipulated, no matter who in the hell might be behind the manipulation. And there are no legal limits to these hitlerian methods to "promote the development of science". So you realize that you have to protect yourself.

Thanks to Windows 98 I did not even bother to investigate what had happened in any case. I simply switched to it and, while still doing my job in the foreground, completely rebuilt in the background the XP partition.

Computing world is a no-laws-land and Windows 98 is an excellent weapon to defend yourself from manipulators. That's why it has so many enemies.

This post has been edited by cannie: 02 May 2009 - 03:44 PM

[Rjecina]

Multibooter, on Apr 28 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

Not in California. 2 weeks ago I checked at Office Depot, Staples and the big computer chain store Fry's - they had not a single Win98-compatible printer left anymore, not even old returns or reburbished printers in their back rooms. Zilch. Nothing. Nada.

Earlier user has been right. Epson still support Windows 98 and this is possible to see from my little example:

Epson Stylus Photo 1400 is possible to buy on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=s...p;x=13&y=18

and on Epson site is possible to download Windows 98 drivers http://esupport.epson-europe.com/ProductHo...PV41&tc=6#7

[Multibooter]

Rjecina, on May 2 2009, 04:08 AM, said:

Multibooter, on Apr 28 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

Not in California.

Epson still support Windows 98... and on Epson site is possible to download Windows 98 drivers http://esupport.epson-europe.com/ProductHo...PV41&tc=6#7

Great info Rjecina. And great that Epson supports their Win98 customers. I had no problem getting the latest Win98 driver for the my Epson Stylus Photo 1280 from the US website, but this is apparently a US model not sold in Europe, it's not on their model list of Epson Europe at http://esupport.epson-europe.com/SupportHo...2FzEJ1ZP6LGPV41 only models 1270 and 1290 are listed.

It is very interesting that the US support page for the Epson Stylus 1400 (apparently a model sold in both markets) does NOT have Win98 downloads http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support...latform=Windows while the European support page DOES list Win98 downloads http://esupport.epson-europe.com/ProductHo...LGPV41&tc=6

When I was in Germany and Switzerland 6 months ago Media Markt, ProMarkt and Saturn still had plenty of Win98-compatible printers. The United States is rapidly becoming the boondocks of personal computing, the backcountry, the outback. In Europe, for example, stores have a rich choice of Win98 compatible SDHC card readers, at Fry's in California I couldn't find one, but plenty of SD readers which didn't indicate whether they were for modern cards>2GB. The U.S. PC Magazine has vanished into virtual nothingness, at the magazine stands in the U.S. one can find maybe still one or two lone PC-oriented publications, next to about 30 publications about cars, SUVs and motorcycles. In Germany in contrast there are maybe 7 really good PC publications, of which my personal favorite one is PC Praxis. all at a level never reached by a single US publication available at newsstands during the last 5 years.

One of the nicest things ever made in the U.S., the Mickey Mouse and Uncle Scrooge comics, cannot be gotten anymore in the U.S. (except for very hard to find reprints for a handful of adult collectors), and Disney Channel in contrast to 10 years ago doesn't show these Duck Tales cartoons anymore. But in Europe you can still find these Americana at every newsstand. Possibly Windows 98SE will become as legendary as Mickey Mouse, but hard to find in its country of origin.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 02 May 2009 - 10:46 AM

[Fredledingue]

Interresting. The US losing the PC culture...
It's true that in Europe we have a large choice of computer ublications from "Hackers" to "PC Games". Many special editions too. Many stuff about Linux. It's not rare to find a complete, free Linux distro packed with a PC mag.
But major pC magazines are very boring. It's all about the last Windows version, photo and video.

The most revealing is the tips they write now and the tips they wrote 10 yaers ago: Almost the same.
Just as if there had made no improvement in the OS...
"How to make your PC faster", "Which memory stick do I need", "Defragment your HD", "How to make your own movies", "Manage your pictures" etc.
They repeat the same things again and again.

Also how many new apps (free or commercial) are issued everyday (or almost) to tweak, customize or maintain XP or Vista.
How many new picture, video or mp3 managers per day?
It's an endles flow of new apps and they all do the same things moreless.
So much time, money and energy spent on redoing the same things again and again. But Microsoft will never do once and for all a clear interface to do these stuffs. (Try to configurate IE in Vista, good luck! It takes you at least one hour unless you know exactely what you wanna do.)

M$ should fix the problems once and for all, instead of letting third parties fix it for them. An anti-virus shouldn't be needed on an OS, period.
It's not so difficult to make a fast and reliable system restore/backup, especialy when you can boot in Dos. Unlike the XP that takes ages to make system restore point but will almost always fail to rrestore your system when you need it.

[Multibooter]

Fredledingue, on May 2 2009, 04:30 PM, said:

The most revealing is the tips they write now and the tips they wrote 10 yaers ago: Almost the same. Just as if there had made no improvement in the OS...

The PC has become a mature product, an applicance like a refrigerator or a washing machine. Since it's getting hard to make a fast buck with PCs, people have lost their interest in PCs here. I have met several people during my search for old Win98 stuff at garage sales, 8-10 on Saturday mornings, who were MS certified professionals years ago, until they changed to become real estate agents. In my neighborhood CompUSA went bankrupt over a year ago, PCClub has closed, and the last little computer repairshop in my high-tech area is gone. The only big computer+electronics store left here is Fry's.

[winxpi]

Multibooter, on May 2 2009, 11:42 AM, said:

When I was in Germany and Switzerland 6 months ago Media Markt, ProMarkt and Saturn still had plenty of Win98-compatible printers. The United States is rapidly becoming the boondocks of personal computing, the backcountry, the outback. In Europe, for example, stores have a rich choice of Win98 compatible SDHC card readers, at Fry's in California I couldn't find one, but plenty of SD readers which didn't indicate whether they were for modern cards>2GB. The U.S. PC Magazine has vanished into virtual nothingness, at the magazine stands in the U.S. one can find maybe still one or two lone PC-oriented publications, next to about 30 publications about cars, SUVs and motorcycles. In Germany in contrast there are maybe 7 really good PC publications, of which my personal favorite one is PC Praxis. all at a level never reached by a single US publication available at newsstands during the last 5 years.

One of the nicest things ever made in the U.S., the Mickey Mouse and Uncle Scrooge comics, cannot be gotten anymore in the U.S. (except for very hard to find reprints for a handful of adult collectors), and Disney Channel in contrast to 10 years ago doesn't show these Duck Tales cartoons anymore. But in Europe you can still find these Americana at every newsstand. Possibly Windows 98SE will become as legendary as Mickey Mouse, but hard to find in its country of origin.

Yeah that's true Mickey Mouse comics are still sold in the so called "trafik" in US colloquial for newsstand, where you buy cigarettes or newspapers, mobile phone cards etc.
I don't know why, but the Mickey Mouse comics are existing since cigarettes are bought in European germanic countries, quit strange somehow, but they are very popular, quite many in my familiy read them as childs/teenagers.
Hopefully Windows 98 will really become as popular as Mickey Mouse, then we've reached more than we wanted *g*.

This post has been edited by winxpi: 03 May 2009 - 11:08 AM

[Fredledingue]

multibooter
IMO, the time when an independant dealer would spend 2 hours fixing a bug on your machine is gone.
The horror is the OEM distribution. M$ made the huge conceptual mistake in attempting to make the PC a mature product like a a refrigerator or a washing machine. The fact is that it isn't.
Even if you don't install anything yourself, your PC changes overtime. Moreso if you do.
It's a as modelable as clay. It's like you buy a small car and 6 months later you have a pickup (fully loaded with crap of course). As soon as it hit the internet it start morphing.
After one year it's beyond recognition.
A PC is a life organism. An electronic one, but living as certainly as I'm here typing.

It's way too complex to have 5 buttons and here you go. That's what M$ tried to do, but they only created a monster even worse.

[cannie]

Fredledingue, on May 4 2009, 12:15 AM, said:

multibooter
A PC is a life organism. An electronic one, but living as certainly as I'm here typing.

An excellent definition. But all efforts are directed to make it a foolish terminal in the hands of soft and hardware providers. User's ignorance pays: no need of PC reviews at all, only ads.

[Drugwash]

Changing standards is what will eventually kill the 9x community. When HTML, PHP, ASP, Flash and all others will no longer be backwards compatible, none of the 9x users will be able to browse the web anymore.
You'll say there's KernelEx - it can only do so much and it's a one-man show (more or less), can go down at any time.
You'll say there's convertors - soon there won't be people to build/update them anymore, so they'll lie down and die.

They are changing standards too fast and too deep. There is unspoken pressure to take the 9x network down - I have never ever seen such a concerted action as this dissapearing of 9x drivers (for one) and 9x-compatible software; this almost looks like the works of a magic wand but I'm too darn old to believe in magic.

Final blow will be the introduction of IPv6 which will definitely kill all 9x web activity unless any of the well-known to us genii will take the Hitachi IPv6 driver for NT4 and bring it to 9x usability. And then all that's left for us is sit quietly at home, isolated and alone, playing old DOS arcade games on whatever 9x-compatible hardware may still be alive at the time.

Fade to black...

[Bleeder]

Drugwash, on May 3 2009, 05:15 PM, said:

Final blow will be the introduction of IPv6 which will definitely kill all 9x web activity unless any of the well-known to us genii will take the Hitachi IPv6 driver for NT4 and bring it to 9x usability.

I thought Hitachi ToolNet6 work on Win98 and NT4 already?

[Drugwash]

Dunno, you may be right regarding 98 (even 95?). Never tried it myself since there's no IPv6 network in the surroundings that I know of.
Should work fine with NT4 since it was designed for it, though.

[cyberformer]

Drugwash said.....

"Final blow will be the introduction of IPv6 which will definitely kill all 9x web activity unless any of the well-known to us genii will take the Hitachi IPv6 driver for NT4 and bring it to 9x usability."


Spot on Drugwash! Spot on indeed!

I keep warning people of this danger, and no one seems to pay heed to my warnings!

I looked for the Hitachi IPv6 driver, and cannot find it.
Can anyone here post a link if they can; I want to see what it does in my 9x test box.

[Atmosphere XG]

Drugwash, on May 3 2009, 05:15 PM, said:

They are changing standards too fast and too deep. There is unspoken pressure to take the 9x network down - I have never ever seen such a concerted action as this dissapearing of 9x drivers (for one) and 9x-compatible software; this almost looks like the works of a magic wand but I'm too darn old to believe in magic.

Windows 98 was the last operating system that allowed you to have full control over your computer. I had no other choice but to upgrade to Windows 2000 based on audio VST that would not work on Windows 98. However, it still gives you more freedom than Windows XP.

I tried Windows 7 for I while but had to put it down based on restricting me to do many things on my computer that had no affiliation to the Internet.

[Multibooter]

Fredledingue, on May 3 2009, 03:15 PM, said:

M$ made the huge conceptual mistake in attempting to make the PC a mature product like a a refrigerator or a washing machine. The fact is that it isn't.

When I used the term "mature product" I was thinking of an S curve in economic theory. Although a lot of little improvements have been made between Hitler's Volkswagen design and todays Volkswagen beetle, functionally they are quite similar: they take you from point A to point B. Maybe twice as fast today.

Similarly, you can do most things nearly equally well on a 10-year-old Win98 computer as on a state-of-the-art Vista machine. This small improvement in the functionality of a product type, over 10 years, I would call the hallmark of a mature product. My 8-bit HP125 CP/M computer of 1982, in contrast, was not a mature product yet, it can hardly do a thing which my Dell Inspiron 7500s of the year 2000 can do. Mature products have low profit margins; there is market saturation, like 3 TVs, 2 cars and 3 PCs per household. At the end of the industry/product/innovation life-cyle of a major invention, economic history tells of big bankruptcies and economic crises, as happened decades ago to US railroads, or to US airlines. Now it's the turn of cars and personal computers.

Win98SE will not disappear as quickly as CP/M, because Win98SE is functionally a mature product.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 03 May 2009 - 09:27 PM

[dencorso]

[somewhat offtopic]

Multibooter, on May 4 2009, 12:20 AM, said:

Although a lot of little improvements have been made between Hitler's Volkswagen design and todays Volkswagen beetle, functionally they are quite similar: they take you from point A to point B. Maybe twice as fast today.

No! Today's sorry contrafaction of the beetle cannot be even remotely thought of as a true Volkswagen beetle! It may be faster. But it's as false as a US$3 bill. The last true Volkswagen beetle was produced in Mexico, in 2003.
[/somewhat offtopic]

This post has been edited by dencorso: 03 May 2009 - 11:01 PM

[Multibooter]

Drugwash, on May 3 2009, 04:15 PM, said:

Changing standards is what will eventually kill the 9x community. When HTML, PHP, ASP, Flash and all others will no longer be backwards compatible, none of the 9x users will be able to browse the web anymore.

I have been amazed at how adaptable my 9-year-old Dell Inspiron 7500 laptop has been with PC CardBus cards, especially USB 2.0 and Ethernet/WLAN cards.

Here a comment regarding the interface potential under Win98 of the dinosaur Ethernet: I got my HP2605 duplex color laser printer (USB+Ethernet) to work fine under Win98 when connected by Ethernet cable to the Ethernet CardBus card of the laptop, via IP based printing, something I have not seen in the HP printer docu. The HP2605 printer actually works fine under Win98 when it is simultaneously connected by cable to 2 running computers: with the USB cable to laptop1 and with the Ethernet cable to laptop 2.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 03 May 2009 - 10:29 PM

[seaweed]

Multibooter, on May 3 2009, 10:20 PM, said:

At the end of the industry/product/innovation life-cyle of a major invention, economic history tells of big bankruptcies and economic crises, as happened decades ago to US railroads, or to US airlines. Now it's the turn of cars and personal computers.

You may substract 1 from 2 using trigonometrical functions and algebra, or by a simple substraction. An OS is nothing but a complex algorythm, not good or bad, nor new or old, but convenient or not convenient for actual needs.

In the computer industry big money was made initially by fulfilling elemental user's needs in a direct way. Later on, more and more complex procedures are used to do the same things, requiring in many cases incompatible hardware and taking profit of the facilities given by the fact that most of the spare parts come from asian countries where there are no limits to speculative product shortages.

The warm "cooperation" of the asian partners, providers of more than 85% of the hardware that we all use every day, allowed that one month after the end of Windows 98 support, a totally correct decision of Microsoft, it were almost impossible to find several essential compatible spare parts in the local dealers to repair your Windows 98 computer.

If Microsoft creates a not compatible OS it is excellent news and it means a scientific advance because I think it allows more possibilities in many fields, as algebra or trigonometry do, even when it doesn't mean any advance for simple tasks. Simple tasks and home computers are not all in the computing field. But you may be sure that next day their spontaneous "friends" of the asian countries will stop providing spare parts for XP and even for Vista to home users.

I don't need Microsoft support to go on using Windows 98, but can't keep using it if I don't find spare parts. Only four months after the Microsoft decision I could not repair my laptop and had to buy a new one. This never happened to me when I had to repair any of the cars I owned, even when one of them was 7 years old.

This post has been edited by seaweed: 04 May 2009 - 05:23 AM