Install XP from USB: conquering ASUS M4A78 Pro

[ilko_t]

...

For Asus

• BIOS: Auto => Motherboard logo
  
• BIOS: CDROM => blinking cursor => Reboot ans Select proper Boot device or Insert Boot Media in selected Boot device and press a key
  
• BIOS: FDD => menu, pic => grub> prompt
  

...

You have HD option for USB emulation in BIOS as far as I remember, right? I don't see anywhere in your tests setting USB emulation to hard disk, or did I miss it?

Don't forget this post of Jaclaz:

If it does not boot on the laptop, use HDhacker (on the laptop):

http://dimio.altervista.org/eng/

and save:

MBR of the stick (first sector of physicaldrive)

bootsector of the stick (first sector of logicaldrive for FAT 16/32 or first 16 sectors for NTFS)

Compress the two resulting files in a .zip and attach it to your next post.

[Tulert]

You have HD option for USB emulation in BIOS as far as I remember, right? I don't see anywhere in your tests setting USB emulation to hard disk, or did I miss it?

I did test HDD separately => Motherboard logo

Technically HDD (4) should work same as Auto (1) [for 4GB] and in my tests it did -> no separate report. Auto (supposedly) does either Floppy or HDD depending on the size of the stick. FDD (3) is forced Floppy no matter the size. Didn't test as Floppy (5).

Don't forget this post of Jaclaz:

If it does not boot on the laptop, ...

I didn't forget. Here comes the thing -- what is the definition of "boots"? I am unsure between boots after just formatting with Fuwi's OR boots after Fuwi's + WinSetupFromUSB. I thought Jaclaz wanted pure format, in any case results are for Fuwi's tool only.

I can't rerun the tests with WinSetupFromUSB now, sorry.

I suspect it is already bad that I am not getting to the blue screen with a menu on a desktop that I am getting on a laptop...?

Edited June 26, 2009 by Tulert

[jaclaz]

Tulert,

I cannot make head or tail of your reports.

Don't take it the wrong way , but you should try one thing, and ONLY one thing and report EXCLUSIVELY about THAT thing you tried.

This way you report everything you tried, mixing good with bad, booting with not booting and what not, it is already difficult enough to help in troubleshooting from a distance based on a single report, solving a single puzzle already takes time, let alone trying to put together pieces of several puzzles scattered on the same table.

However BOTH your screenshots show that you are booting (up to grub4dos).

First one is working (booting) exactly as it should, i.e. you get to grub4dos choices (i.e. menu.lst is loaded and the "splashscreen" included in fuwi's tool is shown).

Second one appears as well to work properly (booting and loading grub4dos) but not being able to locate menu.lst.

So, please STOP running "random" things in "random" ways, with "random" approaches.

Simply replicate WHATEVER you did to produce the two posted screenshots, and let's start from there.

Access the stick from an already booted system, say it gets assigned letter G:\.

Open a Command Prompt and execute in it:

DIR /S G:>C:\dirofstick.txt

Attach resulting file C:\dirofstick.txt to your next post.

Boot from the stick on the ASUS, (and get to the second screenshot you posted).

Then press "c" to access grub4dos command prompt and type in it:

find /menu.lst

and press [ENTER]

What you get?

then try:

ls (

and press [TAB]

you should get something like:

Possible disks are: fd0 hd0 rd cd

now try listing each of the "fd" and "hd" devices, always using [TAB] autocompletion features, like in:

ls (hd

[TAB]

ls (hd0,

[TAB]

ls (hd0,0)

ls (hd0,0)/

[ENTER]

until you check which is the device that grub4dos detects the stick as.

Post results.

jaclaz

[ilko_t]

what is the definition of "boots"?

Lets elaborate a bit on this subject.

You can claim "successful boot" in case the boot loader loaded by either bootsector or MBR gets loaded.

When you see grub4dos prompt => successful boot

Grub4dos boot menu entries (blue screen as you describe it, means grldr found menu.lst and processed it)=>successful boot

When you see boot menu from NTLDR presenting the entries in BOOT.INI=> successful boot

(Blinking) cursor=> unsuccessful boot

Stuck at motherboard logo=> unsuccessful boot

Stuck with other symbols on screen (_h etc.)=> unsuccessful boot

With your Asus MB you have another problem to resolve- in case of successful boot the USB stick is presented as Floppy Disk, which is bad for our needs- XP setup won't start from such device, so will BartPE and many other, can't recall if Vista/7 setup would like being started from FD or not.

So we need to format it in such way, so:

1) boot is successful (boot loader/manager is executed and loaded)

2) USB stick is seen as hard disk

You know now what 1) means, to check 2):

The easiest way I can think of is to have grub4dos launched and check from its command prompt how the USB device is seen as:

To launch grub4dos:

1) Install grub4dos bootsector (grubinst (hdX,0) where X is the disk number found by trying grubinst -v -l (hd1) hd2 and so on) and copy grldr to root of USB stick

2) Install grub4dos MBR (it seeks for grldr file which is grub4dos loader on all available devices and executes it) - grubinst (hdX) and copy grldr to root of USB stick

3) If you formatted the USB stick under XP/2000- copy NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and the following BOOT.INI:

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=c:\grldr
[operating systems]
c:\grldr="Start GRUB4DOS" 
c:\nothing="Dummy line NOT to be used"

To avoid confusion if you have grldr on other disks create a blank file on the USB stick root and name it tagfile.tag.

Once in grub4dos CLI use the following command to find out how the USB stick is seen as:

find /tagfile.tag

If the output is fd0 or 1 then stick is seen as Floppy disk- bad.

If the output is hd0 then you are good to go. Next you can use WinSetupFromUSB without reformatting USB stick and copy whatever you want to.

[Tulert]

please STOP running "random" things in "random" ways

Sorry it looks random. I believe it is not random.

I will be away from that computer today & may or may not be able to test something in the evening. Then I am gone for the weekend.

To clarify something -- reports above are for "booting" from MicroCenter 4GB after formatting in Fuwi ONLY, sequence of options [c; s; 'g'; y; n], i.e. Format, Create a Stick, Letter of a stick, Data ovcerwritten, BartPE -- no.

I didn't add any installation files for Windows. So the menues above are for "booting" from a laptop -- blue. And "booting" from Asus -- grey; under FDD option in BIOS which I was told not to use. Other options in BIOS on Asus go as described in that post.

Other things I discussed you can count as irrelevant.

Simply replicate WHATEVER you did to produce the two posted screenshots

This is easy since I know exactly what leads to those and it is only 1 option of all described. I do use FDD in BIOS though which is emulation as Floppy which supposedly shouldn't work.

Don't use FDD option in BIOS. The whole point to present the USB stick as HD, hence use AUTO or HD mode only.

Will get back with the results as soona as I can, most likely Monday my time.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Tulert

[jaclaz]

Simply replicate WHATEVER you did to produce the two posted screenshots

This is easy since I know exactly what leads to those and it is only 1 option of all described. I do use FDD in BIOS though which is emulation as Floppy which supposedly shouldn't work.

Don't use FDD option in BIOS. The whole point to present the USB stick as HD, hence use AUTO or HD mode only.

Yep , life of lab rats is tough , they also have to decide WHICH of the guys with the white coat they have to listen to.

To clarify:

currently the stance of the two "technicians" of the lab is different:

• jaclaz is optimistic (or if you prefer more possibilistic) and is trying to understand what happens when you boot from stick as FD (which is the ONLY way that you seem to be able to boot on that motherboard)
  
• ilko_t is saying that once you have booted off the stick and it is seen as FD you are stuck, but since with any other setting you are stuck anyway, it means you are stuck.
  

The decision is up to you, if you follow me there is a (unfortunately very small ) possibility, if you follow ilko_t you are in a CATCH 22 situation:

• in order to boot from stick, BIOS must see stick as HD
  
• BIOS cannot see stick as HD
  

It is very possible that we can get around this problem thorugh either re-mapping within grub4dos or using a PLoP "kicker", but the only thing to do is to try and see what happens with the various available possibilities.

Have a nice weekend, "see" you next week.

jaclaz

[Tulert]

Yep , life of lab rats is tough , they also have to decide WHICH of the guys with the white coat they have to listen to.

I believe there was enough info for both. Hence a number of options in BIOS. I do know how to exactly replicate each one so it's not a problem for me to use the only one you want later & I wanted to show more possibilities faster, sorry if that looked random.

You've got a circus rat, it thinks that doing more tricks is good & not confusing for the Experts. And not a problem for the experiments as long as there is exact record of how to replicate each one.

which is the ONLY way that you seem to be able to boot on that motherboard

Now yes. But before I was able to boot under BIOS: CDROM (USB as CDROM I mean) too & I think I'll be able to return there. I should have enough record to remember how to replicate that situation.

the only thing to do is to try and see what happens with the various available possibilities

Ok.

=====================

Idea/Question for Experts:

Back to Fuwi's tool => it refuses to format as a HDD in the sequence [c; h; [g]], says "This is not a USB-HD Partition!"

Could there be a way to trick it or other formatting tool and format as a HDD? And could that help with our problem?

I've formatted in Fuwi's as a Stick but there are 2 options there.

If this is part of my homework and I should know option h is impossible or smth like that you don't have to reply.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Tulert

[ilko_t]

...[*]ilko_t is saying that once you have booted off the stick and it is seen as FD you are stuck, but since with any other setting you are stuck anyway, it means you are stuck.

Not really

Ilko_t wants first to ensure booting in HD mode is impossible indeed, then to move on experimenting in FD mode, which in his opinion would involve much more work to get the applications needed to work correctly.

Plus ilko_t doesn't want to interfere with the work here, just assisting/clarifying when the main technician is absent, being afraid that after all the work the "lab mouse" does, replies may be delayed while he is waiting on "standby"

The lenghty post #19 was crossposting, if I knew you were in the building, I would have preferred to stay in "reading mode"

Nice weekend from me too, back on duties sunday evening/monday

[Tulert]

ensure booting in HD mode is impossible indeed

I think I should unplug my IDE connector and do some of it again. I do have evidence, if you noticed, that USB doesn't let real CDROM boot. So there is some interaction between the 2.
And if in the end of the day everything fails I probably have to check if Asus has any BIOS update on its website.

have to decide WHICH of the guys with the white coat they have to listen to

So far it seems quite feasible to follow both, ignoring some of the instructions, of course. None said that I should quit so far. Plus I can learn more myself as the purpose for me is not the boot but getting more comfortable with everything overall. Edited June 27, 2009 by Tulert

[jaclaz]

Ilko_t wants first to ensure booting in HD mode is impossible indeed, then to move on experimenting in FD mode, which in his opinion would involve much more work to get the applications needed to work correctly.

Then, we are exactly in the same boat.

From what Tulert reported (or, to be more accurate, from what I can gather from his reports) he properly partitioned/formatted the stick with fuwi's tools on the laptop and it boots at it properly.

Some facts:

• Win2K is a "good", known environment (unlike Vista/Windows 7, that may be good but do have some little quirks when doing this kind of things)
  
• fuwi's tool ONLY creates a HD-like partitioning/formatting
  
• laptops are usually more "picky" then desktops when it comes to USB booting, but I have never seen/heard about/experienced about any laptop capable of booting from USB that did not boot from a plain HD-like stick
  

Thus, the fact that it boots allright on the laptop should mean that the stick is now a properly partitioned/formatted HD-like device.

Of course, if I could have the MBR and bootsector, I could be 100% sure, but right now I am 99.99% so.

Now, when the same stick is inserted in the desktop, it behaves strangely:

• AUTO -> does not boot (strange but possible)
  
• CD-ROM -> does not boot (perfectly normal
  
• FDD-> boots up to a certain extent, but NOT properly (i.e. most probably, but I need the result of grub4dos commands, as a FD)
  

The AUTO behaviour can be explained by the fact that the motherboard BIOS may check the Fixed/removable status of the USB device or simply by a small bug in the BIOS.

The CD-ROM behaviour is normal and needs not an explanation.

The FDD behaviour is "peculiar", if the device is properly partitioned/formatted HD-like it should NOT boot at all with such a setting, the only possible explanations are:

• the BIOS does some misterious "skipping" or conversion, ignoring hidden sectors (and auto-correcting sectors before in bootsector)
  
• the BIOS actually boots from the HD-like device, but then forcibly maps it as FD
  

Solutions/workaround may be, as I see it :

• somehow re-forcing through grub4dos the FD to HD
  
• using PLoP, bypassing the BIOS USB stack
  
• find a way to make the thing boot from AUTO, possibly by flipping the "removable" bit on the stick or by some "hidden" setting in BIOS
  
• experimenting with FBINST
  

jaclaz

Edited June 27, 2009 by jaclaz

[steve6375]

I (author of RMPrepUSB) have tried booting to WinPE v2 (Vista PE) on an Asus notebook using RMPrepUSB with no success - but - I did manage to get it to boot using FreeDos + Grub4DOS + iso boot by mapping the iso to (fd0). This might work for an XP install CD as an ISO.

see here

This method seems successful when the BIOS is determined to treat the UFD as a super-floppy.

I have not tried fbinst but it may be just what you need....

Steve

[jaclaz]

I (author of RMPrepUSB) have tried booting to WinPE v2 (Vista PE) on an Asus notebook using RMPrepUSB with no success - but - I did manage to get it to boot using FreeDos + Grub4DOS + iso boot by mapping the iso to (fd0). This might work for an XP install CD as an ISO.

Hi, Steve.

Didn't know you were member here on MSFN too.

Just for the record, here we are talking about installing XP from USB - which DOES NOT and CANNOT work when booted with grub4dos .iso mapping UNLESS Server 2003 SP1 or R2 files are used with a RAMDISK approach.

jaclaz

[steve6375]

I (author of RMPrepUSB) have tried booting to WinPE v2 (Vista PE) on an Asus notebook using RMPrepUSB with no success - but - I did manage to get it to boot using FreeDos + Grub4DOS + iso boot by mapping the iso to (fd0). This might work for an XP install CD as an ISO.

Hi, Steve.

Didn't know you were member here on MSFN too.

Just for the record, here we are talking about installing XP from USB - which DOES NOT and CANNOT work when booted with grub4dos .iso mapping UNLESS Server 2003 SP1 or R2 files are used with a RAMDISK approach.

jaclaz

Hi Jaclaz

OK, I hadn't tried it. But what I do know is that you can boot to WinPE as I described in my link above. So if you put WinPE.iso on the USB stick and had the XP install files on the stick too (in straight folders) then you can install XP onto the hard disk using WinPE as the installation OS. Just partition and format using Diskpart, copy over the XP files to C:\i386, then run winnt32 and then Exit to reboot to the hard disk and let the XP install continue.

There are a few caveats - you need to ptn the hard disk using WinPE Diskpart, so you must use the ALIGN=16065 switch with diskpart. You also need to use BootSect or RMBootSect to make an ntldr (/nt52) bootloader on the hard disk before you run winnt32.

This is the way we install XP at our factory (but we boot directly to WinPE from USB and not via an iso and Grub4DOS).

If you need the exact command line to run winnt32.exe I can dig it out for you.

cheers

S

[jaclaz]

Hi Jaclaz

OK, I hadn't tried it. But what I do know is that you can boot to WinPE as I described in my link above. So if you put WinPE.iso on the USB stick and had the XP install files on the stick too (in straight folders) then you can install XP onto the hard disk using WinPE as the installation OS. Just partition and format using Diskpart, copy over the XP files to C:\i386, then run winnt32 and then Exit to reboot to the hard disk and let the XP install continue.

There are a few caveats - you need to ptn the hard disk using WinPE Diskpart, so you must use the ALIGN=16065 switch with diskpart. You also need to use BootSect or RMBootSect to make an ntldr (/nt52) bootloader on the hard disk before you run winnt32.

This is the way we install XP at our factory (but we boot directly to WinPE from USB and not via an iso and Grub4DOS).

If you need the exact command line to run winnt32.exe I can dig it out for you.

cheers

S

Sure , but you CANNOT, and I mean CANNOT boot an XP based PE .ISO (i.e. WinPE 1.x) if not with the RAMDISK approach, while this is possible with a Vista based PE (i.e. WinPE 2.x).

You seem to me like thinking that WinPE 1.x and 2.x behave the same, which is NOT the case.

I know I am a bit "touchy" on this particular topic, but I have seen literally hundreds of posts about people wanting to boot XP based builds from a .iso, and probably as much of people failing to see the differences between PE 1.x and PE 2.x.

And with all due respect , the winnt32.exe way is a rather known one, see item #2 here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=81788&st=6

wimb actually developed a semi-automated method, using the RAMDISK approach, to better the procedure:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=121446

Should you want to take the red pill , start here :

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=133309

Of course, if you have available a PE 2.x of some kind, and apart form the bootsector change and partitioning, things are rather straightforward.

I am not so sure about the align=16065 being a good choice, I've always preferred the Registry change, workaround #2 here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=88083&st=5

as the align=16065 command leaves a "hole" in the disk, that some partitioning/re-partitioning/imaging programs might not "like".

jaclaz

[ilko_t]

@Tulert

Since your motherboard refuses (for now) to present USB stick as HD, are you willing to experiment another way of installing XP when stick is seen as FD?

Would be easy to do it with very few changes...

If you need urgently to install XP from USB stick and not so much to experiment and make it work as it's supposed to, just say.

@steve6375

Glad to see you around

About ISO booting of XP setup:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=135083

About winnt32.exe - you maybe know already- there are a few switches, which make copying of XP source to the destination hard disk unnecessary:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showto...st&p=679830