[jcarle]

As time progresses, its usefulness of the Windows 98 forums decreases being that the operating system is now over 10 years old. Those forums are no longer used for anything constructive and have simply been an battle field for never ending, repetitive flame wars. Sadly, as a generality, the source of many uncalled spamming and whining posts has also been from Windows 98 forum users.

I believe that it is an appropriate time to consider permanently archiving and closing the Windows 98 forums.

[-X-]

Live and let live

[jcarle]

-X-, on Aug 18 2009, 12:44 PM, said:

Live and let live

Sure, except that this isn't a public street. This is a privately owned and operated forum. So freedom of speech has nothing to do with it. This an enthusiast forum that was setup for enjoyment shared by a community of enthusiasts. The fact of the matter is that the situation has degraded and become unpleaseant for a lot of regular members. Not to mention forcing the forum moderators to become full time firefighters against the endless martyristic spam.

This post has been edited by jcarle: 18 August 2009 - 11:01 AM

[-X-]

Would you say that if the same thing happened in your operating systems (windows 7 I presume) forum? Just seems you are singling out 9x. If they want to use 9x and they think it's the best thing ever, let them. No operating system is better that another operating system. It's all subjective.

I don't know what's going on there as I rarely go in there. If you know all the ins and out of that forum, my question is why? You don't use it.

[jaclaz]

Of course it is entirely up to you and to the various Owners/Admins of the Board, but as I see it, a large number of people are interested still in Win9x issues, and closing the Forum would reduce the appreciation of a number of members.

By "Archiving" do you mean keeping the threads in Read Only mode or backing up them and removing from public view?

If the first, I guess that there will be no problems, except making unhappy a number of members, myself included.

If the second, before doing that, I would advise to find an alternative solution, like if needed hosting them on another site, to let the "frozen" contents still available to the public.

jaclaz

[gamehead200]

-X-, on Aug 18 2009, 01:40 PM, said:

I don't know what's going on there as I rarely go in there. If you know all the ins and out of that forum, my question is why? You don't use it.

I'll agree on one thing and one thing only: Moderating that forum has been pretty time consuming for all of us mods. Why have we had to moderate it? Because of id*** spammers such as this one who constantly bombard the forum with links to their own so-called "service pack." I'm sure I speak for all of the Win 98 forum members when I say that they (i.e., the spammers) have become a PITA (no, not the kind you eat).

jaclaz, on Aug 18 2009, 01:43 PM, said:

By "Archiving" do you mean keeping the threads in Read Only mode or backing up them and removing from public view?

He most likely meant keeping the threads and forum in read-only mode (it would make the most sense).

jaclaz, on Aug 18 2009, 01:43 PM, said:

If the first, I guess that there will be no problems, except making unhappy a number of members, myself included.

This is a possibility, but it's also possible that with all of member projects that exist in that forum, most of the members who frequent that specific forum will find alternate means of communicating and sharing ideas.

[Philco]

jcarle, on Aug 18 2009, 10:11 AM, said:

...
I believe that it is an appropriate time to consider permanently archiving and closing the Windows 98 forums.

[cluberti]

It's being considered due to considerable spam and problems from users arising from this particular forum section, and the trend is quite disturbing. It is likely that a few bad apples have spoiled the bunch, but I cannot say yet whether or not this will occur. It's being considered, however, as cursory review of our problem list and warnings/banned user list (that aren't 1st time spam forum drive-by spammings) come from users who are most active in the 9x forums (yes, we keep track of this stuff). It is as it is, and I'm not sure how I feel about it, but it's being considered. We believe our DDoS attack today was from said members who used to be a part of that forum as well who were banned (and apparently haven't grown up).

I'm leaving this open for an open discussion on the matter, but keep it clean. Flaming, harassing, not providing respect to other poster's points of view, etc. will get you immediately banned, with no warnings. I have no tolerance for these things, and neither do any other mods.

[jcarle]

-X-, on Aug 18 2009, 01:40 PM, said:

Would you say that if the same thing happened in your operating systems (windows 7 I presume) forum?

I'd simply find somewhere else to go.

-X-, on Aug 18 2009, 01:40 PM, said:

Just seems you are singling out 9x. If they want to use 9x and they think it's the best thing ever, let them. No operating system is better that another operating system. It's all subjective.

No one says they can't. All that's being said is that this may no longer be the place for them to whine about it.

jaclaz, on Aug 18 2009, 01:43 PM, said:

By "Archiving" do you mean keeping the threads in Read Only mode

That is my suggestion as there is a lot of valuable information that could still be used by the internet community at large.

[ripken204]

from a mod perspective i can see why you want this.
there are those who need help with is still but it is a very old OS now and people should learn to leave their comfort zone and upgrade.
i would have to say that i am for read only mode.

[Bleeder]

ripken204, on Aug 18 2009, 04:00 PM, said:

people should learn to leave their comfort zone and upgrade

Going with this argument, I might be ok with this idea if Windows NT and Office 97 get the same treatment. I.e. archive the merged nt4/2000/2003 forum and start fresh as the 2000/2003 forum (same for the merged office 97/2000/2002-XP/2003/2007 forum).

[Kelsenellenelvian]

Something has to be done these polish guys are not going to stop on their own...

[-X-]

That comment by ripken is what gets me. First they came for 9x and no one spoke, then they came for win2k and no one spoke....

I plan on sticking with XP til 2014 and I just hope the same doesn't happens then.

It it's something special about 9x users that cause problems then consider it but to use the age of the OS as part of the equation is not cool IMO.

As I said before, live and let live (that doesn't mean free speech).

Kelsenellenelvian, on Aug 18 2009, 11:51 PM, said:

Something has to be done these polish guys are not going to stop on their own...

May I suggest then that a regular there be made moderator with mod action only on that forum and have the other mods wash their hands of that forum if it's too much work.

[Kelsenellenelvian]

Thats been done already.

But now they are appearently DDOS'ing msfn...

Personally I am archiving as many files as I can and bookmarking mgdx's site.

This post has been edited by Kelsenellenelvian: 18 August 2009 - 10:05 PM

[DigeratiPrime]

Well I do not use 9x, or frequent its forums, but I respect the reasons some people have for doing so. While I think there are some good points made against 9x, I think it would be a mistake to close the forums to say the least. I believe as a mod our job is to keep the site 'working' and let the members steer the discussion. If we have a user problem we will deal with it as such, otherwise content should only be moderated as defined in the rules.

[PC_LOAD_LETTER]

-X-, on Aug 18 2009, 10:57 PM, said:

May I suggest then that a regular there be made moderator with mod action only on that forum and have the other mods wash their hands of that forum if it's too much work.

dencorso was made moderator of that forum in an attempt to appease the users of that forum.

Bleeder, on Aug 18 2009, 10:40 PM, said:

Going with this argument, I might be ok with this idea if Windows NT and Office 97 get the same treatment. I.e. archive the merged nt4/2000/2003 forum and start fresh as the 2000/2003 forum (same for the merged office 97/2000/2002-XP/2003/2007 forum).

im fine with that but honestly there isnt much NT activity in the NT/2000/2003 forum these days and the entire office forum is deadsville as it is so splitting it up would just clutter the main category page.

-X-, on Aug 18 2009, 11:44 AM, said:

Live and let live

...You used to say live and let live
you know you did 3x
But if this ever changin
in which we live in
Makes you give in and cry
Say live and let die

[ripken204]

well for those against what some of us have said, i am just for the mods on this.
there job is hard enough as it is and they are making it sound like they have to spend a lot of time moderating this forum to the point that it is not worth it, which is why we are asking the question, is it really worth it?
hopefully all of the crap that is going on will stop, but we do not want the mods to be annoyed to hell with the forum.

[dencorso]

jcarle, on Aug 18 2009, 04:56 PM, said:

-X-, on Aug 18 2009, 01:40 PM, said:

Would you say that if the same thing happened in your operating systems (windows 7 I presume) forum?

I'd simply find somewhere else to go.

It's complicated... There's no place else to go, anymore. And, with the last antivirus software dropping 9x/ME by the end of this year I believe the user-base will start shrinking even faster than it already is, so it's highly improbable there will ever again be enough of us to keep a wiki going or to start a 9x/ME subforum elsewhere.

[herbalist]

Quote

Those forums are no longer used for anything constructive and have simply been an battle field for never ending, repetitive flame wars.

Nothing constructive? KernelEX and the GDI heap Extender aren't constructive? The 9X forum and the projects found in it are the primary reason I joined this place and is the area I use the most. I hope this thread and the 9X forum remain open until I get home from work so I can archive the material that I want and post a proper response to this thread.

[imai]

Speaking for myself I think it would be a terrible loss for all W98/ME users if this forum would not be continued. There is still valuable hardware and software in use that will only function under these old OSs.

So if the problem is caused by a few "bad apples" can't we just prevent access to the W98/ME forum for new members ? I mean read-only for all but new posts for current members only.

It is unlikely that there will be a vast increase in W98/ME users in the future but there is still some development going on that is of interest for W98/ME users.