[jim2029]

I have found a new and better replacement. It's available here:Classic Shell

This post has been edited by jim2029: 27 December 2009 - 12:18 PM

[jcarle]

Why? ... Why would you take a modern operating system and want to revert back to an archaic navigation mode?

[Nexus_06]

Because some people like that fast and slim mode with easy navigation and could give a f*** about eye candy and stupid scrolling menus that make navigating difficult with lots of programs installed.

I like this app (except it's a bit buggy still). I am of the type of user (sysadmin) that wants windows to do, look and act like what I tell it to, and not the other way round. k thx!

[Noise]

I'm with you 100% Nexus. I like all the underlying improvements in Win7/Vista but absolutely hate the UI, Explorer and the Search functions in these new versions. Years ago Windows was all about functionality and productivity, now it's trying its best to be a MultiMedia only operation system. The lack of a classic start menu, and the removal of the excellent basic search functionality (that doesn't require an index service) that existed in 98/2000/XP/2003 is inexcusable in my opinion. Productive professional-level file manipulation in the new Explorer is **** near impossible.

Jcarle, no offense - but I seriously cant see what there is to like about the UI. I simply don't understand it. It hides things from you that you need to see and dumbs things down to a preschool level without the option of setting an "advanced" mode. Unfortunately I have to use Win7/Vista for development (and my nVidia 3D glasses on my games) - but when trying to actually do WORK in these new OS's I literally find myself screaming at the OS. Windows 7 is extremely frustrating on a professional level.

[JustinStacey.x]

Reverting to the Classic Start menu means you lose the ability to use instant search. This is one of the features I like most about Vista, and it also doubles up as the Run command. Even XP's start menu is miles better and whenever I use Windows 2000 or something older I cringe at the Start Menu on offer.

jcarle: happen he just prefers the archaic navigation mode? Shock! Horror! Can't have that can we. Best get the troops out to shoot anyone who won't adhere to our new teknolojeez.

This post has been edited by JustinStacey.x: 01 September 2009 - 04:14 AM

[Nexus_06]

Microsoft often "fix" things that aren't broken, under the disguise of "improvement".

Obviously they don't pay any attention to what non-home users want from the OS.

There has been plenty of IT professionals demanding the classic start menu as well as classic search... they just don't listen. It's not much code, why remove it... it's silly.
I also hate the "IE" look of explorer, with cookie crumb navigation, and a preview pane you can't disable (which just wastes window space).

DX11? who cares, no one even cares about DX10 yet.

Well, before I make this into too big of a win7 rant... I'll stop here.

[DigeratiPrime]

I have no problem with people making programs to satisfy some demand I just don't understand how the classic cascading menus is a productivity improvement over the modern implementation. I always found the old style frustrating with having the menu collapse when the mouse wasn't over it and also not sorting automatically. I like being able to scroll the list by mouse wheel and integrated search. I also feel it makes more sense productivity wise to search for the file to open and then let associations launch the corresponding program in one user interaction, rather then find the program and then the file thus navigating more menus. Also you can always disable indexing and search works just like before for those who notice the low priority background task or are in a very tight security environment, in fact indexing by default is only on parts of the system volume and has extension filters so it builds/updates/crawls fast and uses little relative space.

[eyeball]

I barley use the start menu so im neither Pro nor Con on this one. Winkey + R is the way forward

[mau-yong]

Noise, on Sep 1 2009, 02:28 PM, said:

I like all the underlying improvements in Win7/Vista but absolutely hate the UI, Explorer and the Search functions in these new versions. Years ago Windows was all about functionality and productivity, now it's trying its best to be a MultiMedia only operation system. The lack of a classic start menu, and the removal of the excellent basic search functionality (that doesn't require an index service) that existed in 98/2000/XP/2003 is inexcusable in my opinion. Productive professional-level file manipulation in the new Explorer is **** near impossible.

Me too, I also miss the old explorer and the classic search on Win7/Vista It is more productive working with the old search and explorer.

[godel.chen]

Nexus_06, on Sep 1 2009, 11:21 AM, said:

Because some people like that fast and slim mode with easy navigation and could give a f*** about eye candy and stupid scrolling menus that make navigating difficult with lots of programs installed.

I like this app (except it's a bit buggy still). I am of the type of user (sysadmin) that wants windows to do, look and act like what I tell it to, and not the other way round. k thx!

Second your idea on the start menu.

However, i would like to say it's above how some people like their start menus.

Software industrial would never be mature if it can't find the "solid kernel", the absolutely necessary components to build-in for long lasting use.

How about having two more alphabets for the "improvement" of English language?

There are infinite directions in improvement, on almost everything.

What's the solid foundation that lasts, needs not to be changed, can be "reliably" built on by other applications, without frequent change?

Like the collection of Axioms in mathematics, all other theorems, formulas can be derived from, without changing the whole structure all the time.

Microsoft should focus more on the OS itself, and leave GUI to be customizable like X-Window Manager, not monopolize everything.

Simplicity is beauty, many IT workers like their desktop simple.

Personally i feel rather disappointed on no classic start menu, no matter how many features Windows 7 included. Many of those features i can obtain from third party software developer, so i don't really need them.

Microsoft still doesn't understand why many guys won't upgrade. It's more room and liberty to expand your own system through older, less bloated OS, than cut back unnecessary functionaries.

[DigeratiPrime]

I personally find the new StartMenu easier, since recently used apps appear immediately as well as recently used files in jump lists, I dont need to navigate through cascading menus which to me is as annoying as popups.

I think MS is actually listening to customers with these changes. MS is reacting to the perception that the OSX is better from a usability perspective which is evidenced by changes in media and markets.

As for bloat this claim has been debunked. Sure the OS is larger than its predecessor, but it terms of contemporary hardware it is relatively less bloated. Compared to other operating systems the default install of Windows has a smaller footprint also. And the reason it gets larger is to add more features, compartmentize the OS for security and reliability reasons, include more drivers by default, etc. It doesnt affect performance unless the extra sectors are being read by the hard disk all the time.

I don't mean to troll, so I apoligize if I've bothered anyone. Just sharing my opinion. To each his/her own

[Noise]

Speaking as an old timer, who literally has been supporting Windows since 2.0, Microsoft's move away from hierarchical menu systems is a huge mistake. You see this philosophy in all new Microsoft products except the ones geared towards professionals (Exchange, SQL, Etc). The way Office 2007 has a "ribbon bar" and Windows 7's UI - these are not productive interfaces, they are fluff, they are bloat and they cripple the product. They deter you from experimenting, from looking around and finding out what you can do - from learning.

For instance, the advantage of the "classic" start menu; Say I installed Nero on my PC a few months ago and now I want to make a audio CD from an tape for the first time. I forgot the name of the program that Nero uses for this (Nero SoundTrax). A simple click in Start/Programs/Nero and I can see all the Nero products that were installed. This takes less than 5 seconds to do, and I don't have to type anything. In addition, the classic start menu is great just to view what products you have installed, and helps with cleaning out clutter later. From an IT perspective, a quick support call from someone wanting to know how to start Outlook, "Click Start/Programs/Microsoft Office/Outlook". In less than 15 seconds I have a user starting Outlook - no remote desktop necessary, no confused users - quick, simple, efficient.

I could go on and on about the classic start menu's value in the Windows OS. But it won't make a difference, Microsoft seldom listens to their support professionals when it comes to the desktop. They don't go outside of their comfort zone and mainly use marketing (who cater to fanboys) to make the decisions. It gets worse every year, and seriously p***es me off. If I wanted a Mac I'd buy a Mac, it's a better OS on the whole than Windows anyhow.

The search feature in Vista/7 is another point of contention. I hate the index service with the passion of a thousand suns. Ever wonder why Mac's don't have a Hard Drive Activity LED? It's because their users would be saying WTF is my hard drive doing? Well, I have a Hard Drive LED, and I LIKE knowing when my servers and workstations are accessing my HDD, it's a good indicator of malware and viruses. If I see my HDD LED going crazy I immediately assume the worst - and for good reason. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft made a deal to eliminate the HDD LED from all desktop OS's in the future.

I keep my data organized in directories, as any computer user should get used to doing. In previous Windows versions; If I want to find an MP3 file, I right-click my MP3 folder and search for a keyword. If I want to find the INF file my monitor is using, I right-click the Windows/INF folder and search all *inf files that contain the string "viewsonic". It's simple, efficient, and does not require the index service.

These are examples of things Microsoft has previously done "right" and removed from the latest Windows versions. For me, these things were vital, they were what separated Windows from the other OS's. Google Desktop and OSX have caused Microsoft to do stupid things - and the way they nerf the advanced power-user tools from the OS is nothing short of inexcusable.

This post has been edited by Noise: 03 September 2009 - 03:10 PM

[Nexus_06]

Noise, you've said everything I could possibly think of in a clear and concise way.

At least someone understands exactly what a lot of power users/admins mean.

Point and click was the most simple basic, and useful idea ever implemented in a graphical UI, why break what it not broken I will never know. It was designed to get away from having to type into the console (or search box if you will)... this is a step backwards and not forwards. What was once 2 steps and and some mouse movement, has now degraded into several steps... to me it's the same as opening the RUN box and typing in what I want to run, this is not productive at all. I may as well go back to using dos shell and setting environment variables for search paths

Who is using archaic mode now? Hmm?

This post has been edited by Nexus_06: 03 September 2009 - 07:21 PM

[GrofLuigi]

They got into this mess themselves, when they started forcing adaptive menus. Users couldn't find many things, so now they're retraining the users...

And 7 is being touted for tablet pcs...

GL

[JustinStacey.x]

Noise, on Sep 3 2009, 08:46 PM, said:

Speaking as an old timer, who literally has been supporting Windows since 2.0, Microsoft's move away from hierarchical menu systems is a huge mistake. You see this philosophy in all new Microsoft products except the ones geared towards professionals (Exchange, SQL, Etc). The way Office 2007 has a "ribbon bar" and Windows 7's UI - these are not productive interfaces, they are fluff, they are bloat and they cripple the product. They deter you from experimenting, from looking around and finding out what you can do - from learning.

For instance, the advantage of the "classic" start menu; Say I installed Nero on my PC a few months ago and now I want to make a audio CD from an tape for the first time. I forgot the name of the program that Nero uses for this (Nero SoundTrax). A simple click in Start/Programs/Nero and I can see all the Nero products that were installed. This takes less than 5 seconds to do, and I don't have to type anything. In addition, the classic start menu is great just to view what products you have installed, and helps with cleaning out clutter later. From an IT perspective, a quick support call from someone wanting to know how to start Outlook, "Click Start/Programs/Microsoft Office/Outlook". In less than 15 seconds I have a user starting Outlook - no remote desktop necessary, no confused users - quick, simple, efficient.

I could go on and on about the classic start menu's value in the Windows OS. But it won't make a difference, Microsoft seldom listens to their support professionals when it comes to the desktop. They don't go outside of their comfort zone and mainly use marketing (who cater to fanboys) to make the decisions. It gets worse every year, and seriously p***es me off. If I wanted a Mac I'd buy a Mac, it's a better OS on the whole than Windows anyhow.

The search feature in Vista/7 is another point of contention. I hate the index service with the passion of a thousand suns. Ever wonder why Mac's don't have a Hard Drive Activity LED? It's because their users would be saying WTF is my hard drive doing? Well, I have a Hard Drive LED, and I LIKE knowing when my servers and workstations are accessing my HDD, it's a good indicator of malware and viruses. If I see my HDD LED going crazy I immediately assume the worst - and for good reason. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft made a deal to eliminate the HDD LED from all desktop OS's in the future.

I keep my data organized in directories, as any computer user should get used to doing. In previous Windows versions; If I want to find an MP3 file, I right-click my MP3 folder and search for a keyword. If I want to find the INF file my monitor is using, I right-click the Windows/INF folder and search all *inf files that contain the string "viewsonic". It's simple, efficient, and does not require the index service.

These are examples of things Microsoft has previously done "right" and removed from the latest Windows versions. For me, these things were vital, they were what separated Windows from the other OS's. Google Desktop and OSX have caused Microsoft to do stupid things - and the way they nerf the advanced power-user tools from the OS is nothing short of inexcusable.

I agree with this almost wholeheartedly, however, I have to make my view clear that I find the Windows 2000/98/95 style start menu extremely annoying after having used the XP and Vista one. We have an engineer at work who (I think) changes all of the start menus to the classic style for some unknown reason, and it drives me up the wall. To get into My Computer or my Documents you end up having to minimize everything and fish around for it on the desktop. Not only that but to get to things like Control Panel and settings you have to go to a submenu. With XP's there are less clicks, with Vista's some have more clicks, but the search is useful.

[gadget]

Well, I really like the Win7 Start menu, the ability to lock programs to the Task Bar and hit Start and type nero sou to locate the program much easier and faster then running through a old menu system.

I am a sys admin come developer and run/support all flavours of windows, mac os x, unix, and a lot of command line stuff... I have been using Win7 for months now and adore the interface. Its fast and easy.... Join the revolution..

[tommydokc]

gadget, on Sep 4 2009, 09:33 AM, said:

Well, I really like the Win7 Start menu, the ability to lock programs to the Task Bar and hit Start and type nero sou to locate the program much easier and faster then running through a old menu system.

I am a sys admin come developer and run/support all flavours of windows, mac os x, unix, and a lot of command line stuff... I have been using Win7 for months now and adore the interface. Its fast and easy.... Join the revolution..

I couldn't agree more. Been using Win7 since day one of the RC and have really started liking the start menu, although I use the winkey + R for everything I possibly can. But clicking the start orb and typing in the first few letters of whatever app I need is awsome. I do agree with others as far as the Windows Explorer though. god what a friggin mess.

[gadget]

tommydokc, on Sep 4 2009, 09:21 AM, said:

I do agree with others as far as the Windows Explorer though. god what a friggin mess.

Hmm, I like Explorer. Seems a lot faster and I switch between several different networks al the time and it's much faster adapting to the new network. With Vista and below I was having to release/renew ip and flush/register dns every network switch. Once the indexing is complete, searches are super fast.

Oh, I think I prefere it over Snow Leopard.....

[LordFett]

At first I hated W7's start menu, now when I use an XP box I curse it's very existence. I am very pleased with the current start menu.

[TheReasonIFail]

Honestly, I don't get it...

I was a huge fan of the "Classic" start menu but I navigate this new menu the exact same way except that the menu's dont cascade.

What am I missing here?