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Install XP from a RAM loaded ISO image


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#201
abelvilla03

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I manage to figure out the xp.iso and grubdos setup, but for some reason I can't load the Firadisk.sys files, every time that I'm about to format the hard drive, It tells me that setup cannot find firadisk.sys, I tried loading the fire driver via nlite and that still didn't work. Any tips on how to get this going would be nice, thank you.


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#202
cdob

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for some reason I can't load the Firadisk.sys files

Which hardware, BIOS do you ue?

Compre first message, try set fd1
#(fd1) optional, required at some BIOS
map --mem /Inst/XP_INST.IMA (fd1)


#203
abelvilla03

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for some reason I can't load the Firadisk.sys files

Which hardware, BIOS do you ue?

Compre first message, try set fd1
#(fd1) optional, required at some BIOS
map --mem /Inst/XP_INST.IMA (fd1)


Hardware
Asus Board, Model, A8V
Bios, American Megatrends

2 Gigs of ram
120gb hard drive sata


Thank you , no more Missing Fiadisk.sys but now i got SetupOrg.exe missing but I was able to figure out that error, so now I was able to install Xp via ram.. yay!!! so happy took me almost 10 hours yesterday trying to figure it out, I was bored at work, so this helped kill some time but at the end of the night I wasn't to happy but today , you made my day.


One thing I did notice was that once I fixed the setupORG.exe, i got the firadisk.sys missing again but I press the ESC to skip file and it then it asked for IMDISK files, but i just skipped them all and it let me install windows xp.


title Loading XP RAM install
ls /Inst/XP_RAM.ISO || find --set-root /Inst/XP_RAM.ISO
map --mem /Inst/XP_INST.IMA (fd0)
#(fd1) optional, required at some BIOS
#map --mem /Inst/XP_INST.IMA (fd1)
#map --mem /Inst/XP_INST.IMA (fd0)
map --mem /Inst/XP_INST.IMA (fd1)
map --mem /Inst/XP_INST.IMA (fd0)
map --mem /Inst/XP_RAM.ISO (0xFF)
map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)
map --hook
chainloader (0xFF)/I386/SETUPLDR.BIN



#204
zamarac

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This thread seems to explain how to overcome a problem of Win XP not installing from MS ISO. That's interesting, but first I want to know why this problem exists to begin with? Can someone point to a thread that explains what are the exact issues that prevent Win XP and also Win 7 from being installed from an unmodified downloaded from MS site Win Install ISO? What exactly goes wrong, at what point and why?

Why don't start from explaining the problem first, research why exactly it occurs, and only then offer a solution? Or at least give a link that explains the beginning. :)

Edited by zamarac, 24 January 2011 - 08:09 PM.


#205
cdob

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Or at least give a link that explains the beginning.

Read the sticky thread
How to boot/install from USB key ?
- the historical thread - how it all began
http://www.msfn.org/...l-from-usb-key/

#206
zamarac

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Thanks. Is there a summary in any post anywhere on this forum that briefly explains what prevents WinXP from being installed from unmodified ISO (non necessarily using a USB Stick, but even from an ISO on USB HD with XP already installed, via Grub4DOS)? What happens after reboot that makes it impossible to complete install?

And a similar summary for Win7 install from ISO, which I assume has different reasons preventing finishing install after reboot?

Edited by zamarac, 25 January 2011 - 07:10 AM.


#207
jaclaz

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Thanks. Is there a summary in any post anywhere on this forum that briefly explains what prevents WinXP from being installed from unmodified ISO (non necessarily using a USB Stick, but even from an ISO on USB HD with XP already installed, via Grub4DOS)? What happens after reboot that makes it impossible to complete install?

And a similar summary for Win7 install from ISO, which I assume has different reasons preventing finishing install after reboot?

NO.

BUT, you may need/want to read this:
http://reboot.pro/8944/
and this ONLY seemingly unrelated thread:
http://reboot.pro/4952/
(for what you are asking XP install or a PE 1.x may be interchanged)

jaclaz

#208
zamarac

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I'm confused. The threads you mentioned don't even talk about installing Win from ISO, even less explain what exactly happens after reboot during install that prevents it from being finalized. May be a couple of simple sentences will do?

Edited by zamarac, 25 January 2011 - 08:06 AM.


#209
jaclaz

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I'm confused. The threads you mentioned don't even talk about installing Win from ISO, even less explain what exactly happens after reboot during install that prevents it from being finalized. May be a couple of simple sentences will do?

You are right :), they don't : I thought you were asking about the need of firadisk (or other driver).

In other words they were an answer to a slightly different question.

But also the question wasn't posed correctly, the .iso is NOT modified in this method, as in:

Install XP from a RAM loaded ISO image. Use a default XP ISO image.


In other words, this method is about using an UNmodified .iso, and the reason why second part of the setup will fail is that normally you won't have any driver connected to the CD-ROM device, so it won't BSOD, but you (actually SETUP) won't be able to access the .iso.

There is a link in cdob's original post (currently invalid due to the board update) about the drivers from CD method:
http://www.msfn.org/...rivers-from-cd/
http://www.msfn.org/...post__p__159358

The idea is to trick the install into running the fake SETUP.EXE to run SETUP.CMD before the real SETUP.EXE.

You need to read the SETUP.CMD to understand what it does (basically it checks drive lettering and mounts the .iso with IMDISK)

In other words, this method:
  • mount the .iso with IMDISK
  • run SETUP.EXE
  • find files into .iso

Normal (NOT working) :

  • run SETUP.EXE
  • NOT find files into .iso (as .iso is not accessible/mounted)


Hope now it answers your question. :unsure:

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 25 January 2011 - 08:59 AM.


#210
zamarac

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Thanks, now its more clear. :)

Still unclear, why this thread is so lengthy, and what exactly these guys were trying to accomplish, if the only thing required is to substitute Setup.exe in the ISO with its fake copy, and it was already done in another thread? Is that the only thing required?

Does it work the same exact way for Win7 ISO install as for XP ISO?

You mentioned FiraDisk - is it a better choice compare to ImDisk for this app (to load an ISO to RAM before installing Win from it) - why? How and why using FiraDisk (instead or in addition to ImDisk ?) changes the install process?

Instead of modding the original installation ISO, is it possible to setup Grub4DOS menu item that will automatically mount second time and/or mod the ISO in RAM at install time after its mounted by adding the fake Setup.exe to it, or play similar role in loading the ISO to RAM again after reboot, so that a user don't have to mod the original Win ISO?

Edited by zamarac, 25 January 2011 - 10:10 AM.


#211
jaclaz

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Thanks, now its more clear. :)

Still unclear, why this thread is so lengthy, and what exactly these guys were trying to accomplish, if the only thing required is to substitute Setup.exe in the ISO with its fake copy, and it was already done in another thread? Is that the only thing required?

Does it work the same exact way for Win7 ISO install as for XP ISO?

You mentioned FiraDisk - is it a better choice compare to ImDisk for this app (to load an ISO to RAM before installing Win from it) - why? How using FiraDisk changes the install process?

Instead of modding the original installation ISO, is it possible to setup Grub4DOS menu item that will automatically mount second time and/or mod the ISO in RAM at install time by adding the fake file to it, or play similar role in loading the ISO to RAM again after reboot, so that a user don't have to mod the original Win ISO?


I guess it will remain unclear :unsure: , as your further questions means that it took you all of 30 seconds to NOT read what is already posted on this thread, the given links and the contents of SETUP.CMD.

AGAIN, the .iso is UNTOUCHED. There is NO substitution of ANYTHING in the .iso.

IMDISK is NOT a miniport driver (usable for booting), Firadisk (as well as WinVblock) are.

The Windows 7 install is completely different.

What "these guys" (actually cdob) accomplished is a way to install from an UNmodified .iso residing on a HD, he did an exceptionally good work in putting together "loose ends" here and there and in writing a working batch with a number of features.

The topic is not "so lengthy" as I see it.

Compare with these:
http://www.msfn.org/...l-from-usb-key/
http://www.msfn.org/...omusb-with-gui/
http://www.msfn.org/...te-720011-hdds/

Anyway now it's two post longer.

You may be interested in this (unrelated, but not much):
http://www.msfn.org/...or-xp-from-usb/

As I see it, you have two choices before you:
  • try one of the given method "as-is"
  • take your time and learn, building the needed background to understand how they work

Have I mentioned that this method uses a DEFAULT, UNMODIFIED, UNTOUCHED .iso? :whistle:

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 25 January 2011 - 10:27 AM.


#212
zamarac

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I guess I need to clarify, no disrespect to cdob. I'm just getting lost in what they were trying to do by reading this thread, and completely vanish if attempting to read more of the same in all other threads. Possibly because its too technical for me and presented without explaining much. I can obvious try this method, but want to get some simple idea first, how it works.

The Install ISO is not modified - this is great! Instead they boot F6 Floppy after half-way WinXP installation reboot to mount the Install ISO second time via batch running from that floppy - right? How they boot the F6 Floppy - manually via Grub4DOS Menu?

So, FiraDisk eventually substituted ImDisk here completely - right? Because its usable for booting the Install ISO second time? Then the Install ISO must be copied to a USB Stick with WinXP already installed on it - right? Or they add FiraDisk into ISO RAM copy after loading the Install ISO to RAM upon reboot? Is it used at 1-st boot of the ISO?

Any thread on this forum about using FiraDisk?

You mentioned that this approach doesn't work for installing Win7 from an unmodded factory ISO? Then what approach works?

Thanks a lot again, no offense please. Just want brief and simple, but with clear idea how it works at large, no small details. May be they call it Synopsis?

Edited by zamarac, 25 January 2011 - 11:37 AM.


#213
jaclaz

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May be they call it Synopsis?

The Synopsis is:
try it, it works.

The long story is:
you cannot ask questions that you don't have the background enough to formulate properly/understand their answers. :(

Mind you there is nothing "bad" in this :), and obviously no offence intended, but you see, it took three posts to get to the point that the .iso is unmodified (this is plain English and needs not a particular background).

Instead they boot F6 Floppy after half-way WinXP installation reboot to mount the Install ISO second time via batch running from that floppy - right? How they boot the F6 Floppy - manually via Grub4DOS Menu?


How many will be needed to get that the F6 floppy is mapped to memory by the bolded lines:

title Loading XP RAM install - /Inst/XP_RAM.ISO
ls /Inst/XP_RAM.ISO || find --set-root /Inst/XP_RAM.ISO
map --mem /Inst/XP_INST.IMA (fd0)
#(fd1) optional, required at some BIOS
#map --mem /Inst/XP_INST.IMA (fd1)
map --mem /Inst/XP_RAM.ISO (0xFF)
map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)
map --hook
chainloader (0xFF)/I386/SETUPLDR.BIN

the above menu.lst entry is NOT crypted, but if you don't know/understand grub4dos syntax, you won't get that.

If you don't know how windows install works, you will never get beyond the fact that the floppy disk image is NEVER booted.

And these are details.

You need to know what a "F6 floppy" is, how it works, how the XP setup works with it, in order to understand the method.

In other words, you are basing most of your questions on a non-existing (or definitely confused) base of knowledge, so that they make very little sense and cannot be answered properly.

It is a difficult and complex matter, let's say "very advanced".
To tackle "base" concepts, you need an "elementary" previous knowledge of the things involved.
To tackle "advanced" concepts, you need at leaste a "basic" previous knowledge of the things involved.
To tackle "very advanced" concepts, you need at least an "advanced" previous knowledge of the things involved.
This is how it works, sorry. :wacko:

This method uses BOTH Firadisk AND Imdisk.

WHAT is then the sense of this? :w00t:

So, FiraDisk eventually substituted ImDisk here completely - right? Because its usable for booting the Install ISO second time? So, ImDisk is not required at all? Any thread on this forum about using FiraDisk?


Any thread on this forum about using FiraDisk?

NO.
Also remember that it is an EXPERIMENTAL driver, as clearly stated in the initial post.
Firadisk development forum/threads:
http://reboot.pro/forum/94/
http://reboot.pro/8804/
http://reboot.pro/9328/

You mentioned that this approach doesn't work for installing Win7 from a factory ISO?

No, I didn't, I stated that the Windows 7 install is completely different, which means ANOTHER thing, the general idea may work, but the details won't, and thus this method as-is won't work..

Then what approach works to install Win 7 from unmodified ISO?

WHO said that one exists?
AFAICR/AFAIK it doesn't:
http://reboot.pro/9076/

jaclaz

#214
zamarac

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Thanks for your understanding of my situation. :) I suspect, many people who read this are in the same bot.

So from your code its clear that during setup:

1) Floppy image is read to RAM;
2) WinXP ISO is read to RAM;
3) SETUPLDR.BIN runs from unmodded WinXP ISO.

Remains unclear, how the floppy image takes part in the install process, since nothing is called to run from Floppy. I guess, SETUPLDR.BIN will look for that Floppy and take extra code from it, but its kind of weird since SETUPLDR.BIN is not modded and would look for a floppy only if F6 is pressed by a user, usually to install SATA drivers. So the user must hit F6, and in addition to SATA drivers other staff will run from that Floppy automatically or by user's choice?

But at what point(s) ImDisk and FiraDisk play their roles, and where each installed? And, this Grub4DOS code above is used only after reboot, or before AND after, or there is no PC reboot in this case?

Since you said there is no similar solution for Win 7 ISO install, is there an exact understanding Synopsis what is the show stopper?

Thanks again, very helpful, I can learn the whole "very advanced" story fast from this Synopsis. :)

Edited by zamarac, 25 January 2011 - 01:12 PM.


#215
cdob

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Remains unclear, how the floppy image takes part in the install process, since nothing is called to run from Floppy. I guess, SETUPLDR.BIN will look for that Floppy

Yes, that's setupldr.bin default behaviour.
A floppy txtsetup.oem is processed by default, no need to press F6.

But at what point(s) ImDisk

at first reboot.

and FiraDisk

At text mode.

And, this Grub4DOS code above is used only after reboot

At very first boot only.

Since you said there is no similar solution for Win 7 ISO install, is there an exact understanding Synopsis what is the show stopper?

Windows support native ISO: read CD like drives.

A CD drive is not a ISO file. That's a major difference.

No default windows driver can open a ISO file. Installation fails, because installation files are missing.
Third party drivers are required to read ISO files.

#216
jaclaz

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I guess, SETUPLDR.BIN will look for that Floppy and take extra info from it, but its kind of weird since SETUPLDR.BIN is not modded and would look for a floppy only if F6 is pressed by a user, and mostly to install SATA drivers from the floppy. So the user must hit F6, and in addition to SATA drivers other staff will run from that Floppy? But at what point(s) FiraDisk plays its role?


What is the sense of

So the user must hit F6, and

the user NEEDS NOT to press F6 (unless he wants to)

Posted Image

Install XP from a RAM loaded ISO image. Use a default XP ISO image.
Addional files are at a F6 virtual floppy.

After years of search a new driver is developed:
FiraDisk: File/RAM Disk driver for Windows.
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=8804
The driver is at early development.

The driver does mount a grub4dos RAM drive.
That's awsome and can be used at a lot of conditions.

Use grub4dos to load a virtual floppy and XP installation image to RAM first.
The virtual floppy is used at F6 stage.
32 bit FiraDisk drivers are loaded by default.You don't have to press F6.
You may press F6 to get selection choice.


The above is written in first post.
It is AFAIK plain English.
As said, you may:
  • believe the above :thumbup
  • NOT believe it
Then:
  • try it for yourself and see what happens

But you cannot make guesses unless you know in detail how SETUP behaves AND have already tested the app.

So, this Grub4DOS code above is used only after reboot, or before AND after, or there is no PC reboot in this case?

Boot once from USB.

Now which hidden message may cdob want to convey? :unsure:
If you boot once from USB HOW MANY TIMES would the menu.lst entry be used? :unsure:
On the other hand, if you need to boot once from USB, may it imply that a re-boot is needed?
TRY the thingy and see if a reboot is needed. :realmad:

Since you said there is no similar solution for Win 7 ISO install, is there an exact understanding what is the show stopper?

Try reading AGAIN:
http://reboot.pro/9076/
A summary (or synopsys) for you, in two sentences:
  • it cannot work UNLESS someone finds a way to re-map the .iso
  • there were contrasting reports, because people had ALSO the windows 7 .wim files extracted and thoughtlessly and falsely reported success

The present thread is NOT about Windows 7, it is about "Install XP from a RAM loaded ISO image", let's stop talking about Windows 7, OK?

jaclaz

#217
zamarac

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Thanks guys!

To work, ImDisk and FiraDisk must be installed in Windows - correct? So, the WinXP Install ISO must be placed onto a USB disk with Windows already installed on it? Sorry, cdob if I didn't understand your 1-st post completely. Thanks for your efforts to make it work!

Xmmm... Third party drivers (ImDisk / FiraDisk) are also required to install WinXP from ISO - isn't it? So, what makes Win7 install from ISO so different? Sorry, want to finish this Synopsis with some logic even a cave man can understand. :)

Note, when I ask for information, some of you guys try to give unrelated advice to do something... Does it make any sense? ;)

Edited by zamarac, 25 January 2011 - 02:36 PM.


#218
jaclaz

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To work, ImDisk and FiraDisk must be installed in Windows - correct?

NO. :no:

So, the WinXP Install ISO must be placed onto a USB disk with Windows already installed on it?

NO. :no:

No risk to give unrelated advice :ph34r: this way, short and effective.

jaclaz

#219
zamarac

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Still ImDisk and FiraDisk must be installed somewhere to work. Where, and at what point(s) in install process?

ImDisk will mount loaded into RAM floppy at 1-st reboot - is that where SATA drivers are usually added? And then FiraDisk will mount Install ISO in text mode, which I guess immediately follows 1-st reboot - sounds about right? So ImDisk and FiraDisk are installed before reboot onto the same HD where XP is being installed (or ImDisk installed on DOS Floppy), so after reboot already almost installed XP mounts the Floppy and Installation ISO on its own? But why use both, if FiraDisk can do it all?

See, we are almost there...compiling a Cave Man Synopsis to Installing Windows XP from USB.

Giving detail explanation is not equal to suggesting doing something... :) So, no risk in explaining without suggestions, comments about the poster, and other smart a** staff.

Edited by zamarac, 25 January 2011 - 03:33 PM.


#220
cdob

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Still ImDisk and FiraDisk must be installed somewhere to work. Where, and at what point(s) in install process?

Learn basic windows installation from CD first.
Learn driver integration.
Learn fake setup.
Learn real floppy usage. Learn F6 requirements.
Learn batch files next.
All is available here at msfn.org since several years.

Read the whole thread. Print it out, read all lout, use a pencil and write the text.
Open floppy image, read txtsetup.oem and read setup.cmd.

ImDisk will mount loaded into RAM floppy at 1-st reboot - is that where SATA drivers are usually added?

No, after first reboot there is no RAM disk anymore.
RAM is cleared at reboot.
ISO file is read from USB drive.
SATA drivers are loaded at textmode and PNP added at GUI mode.

And then FiraDisk will mount Install ISO in text mode, which I guess immediately follows 1-st reboot - sounds about right?

TEXTmode is very first boot: black back ground and blue back ground with TEXT messages.

But why use both, if FiraDisk can do it all?

It's about RAM usage and more.
If you use FiraDisk only, you have to RAM load twice. Feel free to use this or not.

Installing Windows XP from USB.

Remember: OS manufacturer dosn't support this. Different BIOS gives different results.
There are other approaches too. There is no one size all solution. Try all sticky threads.

#221
zamarac

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Thanks for the explanation and numerous suggestions. ;)

The only thing still missing for me to write a one post Cave Man Synopsis is to get in plain text, at what point and where ImDisk and FiraDisk are installed, since they should be installed before they can work IMHO. Is that so hard to explain?

It may be that these drivers are integrated into the ISO during boot process - anything is fine for me, if explained in 1-2 plain sentences. Once we accomplish that part, I promise to copy the whole thread with a pencil. :)

Edited by zamarac, 25 January 2011 - 05:50 PM.


#222
submix8c

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READ the posts again.
DOWNLOAD the package and unzip.
LOOK inside the IMA file (any IMAGE utility here)... inside is a "txtsetup.oem"...
OPEN it with editor and look inside.
READ the first post as to what needs to be added and/or changed.

As was stated, the F6 is unnecessary as the BOOT TO ISO will AUTOMATICALLY "read" the IMA file (simulated floppy) during SETUP (from the ISO).

It's all there... (re-read jaclaz' "basic vs advanced"). This forum doesn't "spoon-feed" anyone. It ASSISTS; after that you're on your own...

(yes, YELLING, as you are not listening/reading...)

edit - provide links to "useful" free utilities.

Edited by submix8c, 25 January 2011 - 06:32 PM.

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

Posted Image


#223
crazydrve

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Hi everyone, need some help please? I had this working when I first saw it a few months back but lost my stuff and tyring to recreate it. not sure what is going on but I keep getting stop error bsod of 7b

here is my info:
title Loading XP RAM install - /Images/XP_RAM.ISO
ls /Images/XP_RAM.ISO || find --set-root /Images/XP_RAM.ISO
map --mem /Images/XP_INST.IMA (fd0)
map --mem /Images/XP_INST.IMA (fd1)
map /Images/XP_RAM.ISO (0xFF)
map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)
map --hook
chainloader (0xFF)/I386/SETUPLDR.BIN

i modified the isoimage.ini to correct the paths

i am trying a vmware image using vmware workstation latest. 1gig ram , 40gig hd, etc
I updated fira driver to latest(.24)

i tested the iso by installing with it only so i know the iso is not the problem.. there is a mix in the floppy/iso combo some how causing the bsod
i took the setup._ from the i386 folder of xp sp 3 disk. and expanded it
copied to setup/i386 folder in floppy image file.

can anyone help me please?

thanks

#224
jaclaz

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@crazydrive
The usual advice (for any given method) is:
  • NEVER introduce ANY change of ANY kind when testing
  • THEN, once succeeeded, ONLY introduce one change at the time

Introducing more than one change makes impossible (or very difficult) to trace back which one creates the problem.

There is NOT one reason on earth to update the driver, and definitely NOT when experimenting.

Start again from scratch, use the provided version of driver, DO NOT change the .iso path, DO NOT introduce any variation of any kind.

Report.

This way - even if it doesn't work - it will be easier to find the problem.

jaclaz

#225
zamarac

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YELLING, as you are not listening/reading...

That's always interesting, when an author offers a method to do something, he believe is better that others, but "forget" to explain in simple words the sequence how his method actually works. Even when repeatedly asked to explain verbally, he refuses, suggesting to look inside his files, read multiple lengthy threads. etc. :) Is that a lack of intellect, or people skills, or what? Especially keeping in mind, how many people would be glad to follow this method if they only were able to find a simple explanation, how it works, in addition to instruction how to run it. I will definitely not use it, until I understand the first part - how it works. And then write the whole sequence in 5-10 simple sentences for others, who are just passing by because such explanation is missing. Is that YELLING or what?

On every forum there are a few guys who believe they are somehow smarter or better then other, having privilege to teach everyone instead of communicate on equal terms. We all are visitors here. Don't waste your time trying to teach me for life. I look only for information, not suggested actions. And the question is the same: at what point and where ImDisk and FiraDisk are installed, since they should be installed before they can work IMHO.

Edited by zamarac, 26 January 2011 - 09:26 AM.





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