Dave-H

Problem Installing Card Reader [Solved]

180 posts in this topic

13FE means defintely Phison
Yes, hex 13FE is decimal 5118, and "5118" in the official USB VID list indicates "Phison Electronics Corp.". This official list can be downloaded as usb.if
ChipGenius does not identify it "properly" (though it does say it seems like Phison based).
Maybe ChipGenius did not have the combination of VID + PID in its data base, only the VID for Phison.
1D21 is not one of the known PID's, seemingly.
Maybe companies using a chip in their final product can get a special PID from the chip manufacturer. hama, for example, does not manufacture chips, but has for some products their own VID [VID, not PID!], maybe because they modified the firmware for a chip with some added features, which then requires a special driver.

With the VID/PID displayed by ChipGenius I looked in google for "vid 13FE usb", to find other companies making USB sticks using the same chip, I came across Kingston Technology and takeMS. The Kingston Win98 driver can be downloaded here, the actual download location is here.

I just test-installed this driver, so that I can look at the VID/PID list in the installed dokusb.inf There was no VID listed for Phison, so this driver probably won't work for Dave's stick, even if he adds a line with the VID/PID of his stick to the .inf file :(

I have found with this trial-and-error-method, at the websites of competing device-assemblers, good drivers for SDHC card readers which came with no Win98 driver or with a Win98 driver for a different chip. Apparently chip manufacturers provide drivers to the device-assemblers, and each device-assembler fills in the blanks in the .inf file with their own VID and PID, and that's then the driver of xyz device assembler. It is unfortunatate that manufacturers of chips used in USB mass storage devices don't provide a download page with drivers for their chips. For example, to download a genesys driver one has to go to hama and download from the hama website a driver for a specific device which contains a genesys chip. Chip makers just sell their chips, customer service is provided, or not provided, by the device-assemblers or importers.

Edited by Multibooter
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You have a "botched" Registry (or stick, but since it works under 9x, this cannot be, and the only way to make sure is to try the stick on another machine which you don't have).

Windows 2000 sees the stick as if it were a card reader (No Media).

Indeed so, that's exactly what it now looks like, a card reader with no card in it.

I would bet on the Registry cleaning procedure that I outlined in the other threads.

Remove the stick.

Before going through ALL the steps listed, try running the nirsoft app:

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html

clean ALL USB entries related to Mass Storage devices,.

Check again with the other utility:

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/clean_after_me.html

Try re-inserting the stick.

You may well have also a "botched" USBSTOR.INF or USBSTOR.PNF or whatever.

jaclaz

Done all that, seemed to work OK.

Removed a load of stuff with USBDeview.

CleanAfterMe had an option to presumably remove "Installed USB Devices" but that looked a bit drastic so I left it.

Put the stick back in, no difference at all!

However, at the risk of muddying the waters, I do have to report something that happened over on Windows 98.

I was trying to find out why my sound hardware isn't working on Windows 98, even with the restored registry.

It looks like it can't find an IRQ to use.

Anyway, I tried the uninstalling in safe mode option, removing the sound hardware, and the IRQ steering devices, one of which was reported as being disabled for some reason.

I also removed the USB2 controller that NUSB had installed support for, and stopped it being detected by disabling the USB2.INF file.

I figured that possibly this extra device had messed up the IRQ allocation system.

Well, it didn't fix the sound problem, and I now have the USB2 controller as an unused device.

Just for the hell of it I stuck the USB stick back in, and it found it as before as two "Disk Drives".

I tried updating the driver on the first of these Disk Drives in Device Manager, not thinking that it would do anything as I'm sure I'd tried that before and been told that the best driver was already installed.

Well, this time I was prompted for the USBMPHLP.PDR file.

I said OK, and to my amazement, the drive became a "Removable Drive".

I then found I could assign drive letters to it, I gave it drive I:, and it duly appeared in My Computer.

I double clicked on it, and there was an almost 2GB empty drive, at last!

I didn't try putting any files on it.

I rebooted, and it all stayed the same.

Next, of course, I tried the same thing with the other "Disk Drive".

Well, everything went the same until I pointed it at the USBMPHLP.PDR file, and then yes, you've guessed it, instant system freeze.

:(

So I'm now back where I was before, and the system freezes as soon as I put the drive into the USB socket.

It does I think prove one thing, that one drive will install OK, but it won't install any subsequent drives on the same device without the system locking up.

It also shows that the pen drive can be read on Windows 98, at least the first bit of it, but Windows 2000 now won't read it.

I'm wondering it we're missing something obvious here.

Is it possible the the pen drive does actually contain two physical devices, rather than one partitioned device?

The fact that DOS can only see one device might just be a limitation of the USB system under DOS.

Just a thought.

:)

Edited by Dave-H
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I'm finally back, after a quite long day. Let me see whether I undestood correctly: now both 98 and 2k see the pendrive as two different unpartitioned volumes, but 2k thinks they're removable and 98 thinks they're fixed disks?

Does Lexar Boot-It detect it?

I think we're dealing with too many variables at the same time. Would you consider buying yourself an el-cheapo Kingston DataTraveler DTI or DT100 pendrive of, say. 1 or 2 or 4 GB? It sure would help having a known alternative one-volume-only pendrive to help us sort things out. It seems the pendrive you've got is really a very peculiar one.

Do read this. Also visit this page: is your pendrive the "Integral ICE USB 2.0 Flash Drive" (it's the last drive in the dropdown menu)?

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Would you consider buying yourself an el-cheapo... It seems the pendrive you've got is really a very peculiar one.
Good idea. On this page the same USB stick VID=13FE and PID=1D21 is mentioned, under Linux, with the final comment: "Thanks for you help, but life it too short for strange USB problems."
Your dual-partition 2GB stick may be something special... I would buy another USB stick (or rather an SD/SDHC card+card reader).
In my earlier posting #47 Edited by Multibooter
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Yeah! Well... We started troubleshooting a strange behaviour in 98. By now we've even cleaned up the registry of Dave's 2k alternate boot... While there's no harm in that, the 2k was working perfectly well. Problems in 98, then in 2k, for me point to the flashdrive. A brand-new DTI or DT100 is a well-know device with predictable behaviour. We cannot possibly trobleshoot all at once. I'm positive jaclaz can eventually get the Integral pendrive working OK, unless it's defective in the hardware. But, by now, I'm not even sure it wasn't that pendrive the actual origin of Dave's problems to start with. The first pendrive I ever bought died suddenly one day, but was perfectly reliable until that day. Hardware fails, and the worst type of failure is becoming defective while seeming OK, not dying suddenly. And this just might be the case here. As I understand it, Dave's 2k is working perfectly, even after our messing with it, but for how it detects the suspect pendrive. 98 is not perfect still, but back to working shape, and detecting the suspect pendrive just like 2k. And then there's these reports we found elsewhere that reinforce the idea the suspect pendrive is not your average garden-variety. So, I'm for putting it aside and getting one we can trust to test and troubleshoot 98 until its back to shape and to remove any shadow of doubt that may now be lingering over how OK is the 2k. And I'd also let the 2k alone, for if we mess up both systems Dave will be cut out from the forum for lack of computer to comunicate from, and that we surely don't want to happen. And yes. Of course, you were the first to suggest this line of action. And, by now, I agree 100% with you.

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<snip>

It seems the pendrive you've got is really a very peculiar one.

Do read this. Also visit this page: is your pendrive the "Integral ICE USB 2.0 Flash Drive" (it's the last drive in the dropdown menu)?

Yes, that's exactly what it is.

Your reference to the Apple forum has an entry where Integral support seem to be telling someone that the two partitions on the drive cannot be combined. No wonder I can't get it to be seen as one drive, except apparently by DOS!

Whether I can now get it working properly again after deleting the volumes from it remains to be seen.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate this!

:)

I will do what you suggest and go and buy a new memory stick, and see what that does.

I have guests today so there may be a slight delay before I report back.

I just hope I don't buy another one and find that it's two drives in one as well!

There was no indication on the drive I have that it was divided like that.

Of course the original problem was with a card reader that is actually five drives, so the problem won't be solved until we can find out why Windows 98 with NUSB won't mount more than one drive without freezing.

:)

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Yes, hex 13FE is decimal 5118, and "5118" in the official USB VID list indicates "Phison Electronics Corp.". This official list can be downloaded as usb.if

JFYI, and for the record:

http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1659

@dencorso

NO, the Lexar's don't use Phison chips AFAIK.

The BootIt tool appears to be compatible with SMI and Alcor chips, but NOT with USBest or Phison ones:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=21850

BUT using the manufacturer tool you can combine allright the two partitions AND make it "Fixed".

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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@jaclaz: OK, I believe you. I've seen you succeed at that before. But which manufacturer tool?

More info about the Integral ICE USB 2.0 Flash Drive: problema-montando-memoria-usb-ubuntu. It's in Spanish, and the gist of it is that it generally further confirms what we have already found out.

@Dave: I'd bet on this one:

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@jaclaz: OK, I believe you. I've seen you succeed at that before. But which manufacturer tool?

Maybe the ones I posted a link to? :unsure::whistle:

It is probable that either:

USB 2K REL90 (UP10&UP11&UP12)

or

Phison MPTool MP2232 v1.11.0 (PS223X, AE2263, UP10-UP14)

http://www.flashboot.ru/index.php?name=Fil...op=cat&id=6

is the appropriate tool. but DO NOT try using it for the moment.

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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usb.if is a "Text - 7-Bit-File", as indicated by QuickView Plus. With QuickView Plus (v8 should do, but v10 rocks) installed under Win98: right-click on usb.if -> Quick View Plus -> content of usb.if displays fine -> select the displayed text -> copy -> paste into TextPad (or Notepad or WordPad) -> save converted file

Or just as easily: right-click on usb.inf -> select Quick Print from the context menu -> set Printer to Acrobat PDF Writer -> Ok -> enter file name in window "Save PDF File As" (usb.pdf) -> Save, and you get the attached usb.pdf.

BTW, QuickView Plus v10 under Win98 converts in the same way and just as easily .docx etc files of Office 2007.

Edited by Multibooter
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usb.if is a "Text - 7-Bit-File", as indicated by QuickView Plus. .....

Sure, and as well ANY number of other softwares would do that, point is/was that the numerical data in the usb.if file is Decimal, whilst all the commonly used tools in the "usb field" use Hexadecimal.

Maybe useful hint :unsure::

usbif2csv.cmd|FIND "13FE"

Results in:

13FE Phison Electronics Corp.

;)

jaclaz

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There is another unofficial VID PID data base for PCI at http://www.pcidatabase.com/ which sometimes may give additional info. The file dokusb.inf installed with the Win98 driver of the Kingston DataTraveller 2.0, for example, contains a VID "08ec" which is in neither database.

@Dave

Try to get a simple USB stick or a single-card reader. Many multi-card readers add another dimension of possible complications, they are like several card readers plus a USB hub. One weakness of nusb is that it does not have multi-state icons in My Computer to indicate which drive displayed in My Computer actually contains the card inserted in a multi-card reader. Furthermore, the safely-remove icon of nusb in the system tray may also list 4 or 5 different devices for a multi-card reader, so that one has to repeat the safely-remove procedure 3 or 4 times before unplugging the multi-card reader, which takes just as long as a reboot.

The multi-card reader MSI StarReader mini II, which displays only 1 card in My Computer, is still my preferred USB card reader http://www.msfn.org/board/sdhc-micro-sdhc-...98-t123109.html, but I don't know whether it is still available.

Edited by Multibooter
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Of course the original problem was with a card reader that is actually five drives, so the problem won't be solved until we can find out why Windows 98 with NUSB won't mount more than one drive without freezing.

:)

Sure. Because, normally, NUSB will mount multi-partition HDDs without complaining, but you need to manually tick the removable box in device manager for it to work. I have had a two-partition USB HDD working OK for a long time now, and Multibooter has had success with his multi-card card-readers, after a lot of experimenting.
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Multibooter has had success with his multi-card card-readers, after a lot of experimenting.
The experimenting related to manufacturer-provided drivers and how to obtain a clean base upon which to install nusb.

After nusb was installed on a clean base, I had no problems whatsoever to install under nusb a hama/Easy Line multi-card reader 00055745, which has a built-in USB hub and cards inserted into the multi-card reader appear as several drives in My Computer. A 16GB SDHC card is currently attached directly to it (I just tested it: adding a SmartMedia card in it at the same time is also Ok), plus 3 different single-card readers with 3x16GB SDHC cards are attached to the built-in USB ports, making the whole device similar to a 4x16=64GB SSD drive. Works fine both under nusb and on another computer with manufacturer-provided drivers.

This multi-card reader is a special-purpose device, for daily use a single-card reader is much preferrable, or a multi-card reader which displays only 1 drive in My Computer, but they don't put this info on the packaging when you buy a multi-card reader.

Edited by Multibooter
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Went out this morning and bought a new HP 2GB flash drive (v125w).

It works fine in Windows 2000 of course , and also works fine in Windows 98, appearing as a single removable drive.

However if I put either of my multi-card readers into Windows 98, the same thing happens as before.

The first drive seems to mount correctly, but as soon as the second drive mounts the system freezes.

So, it looks as if the only problem with my NUSB installation is simply that it cannot mount more than one drive at a time without freezing the system.

Presumably from the experience of others this is not a known and expected issue with NUSB.

So, why is this happening? Is there still a conflict somewhere with some old software that either hasn't been uninstalled or hasn't uninstalled properly?

If so, why does the install only fail the second time and not straight away when the first drive mounts?

Can I now get my old Integral flash drive working again in Windows 2000?

Not the end of the world if I've hosed it completely by deleting the volumes from it, but it would be nice to get it working again if possible.

After all that, will my sound ever work again in Windows 98?

So many questions...........

:)

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