[Nerwin]

My computer has been acting really strange lately and I said I guess I will just build a new system since I built my computer in 2005 and it's just starting to slow down or what ever.

I just want something to get me buy at least till I get a job or something and then I could build a much better system. But what I am going to do is still continue to use my case, video card, dvd burner, and possibly sound card (not sure yet)

Anyways here are the items I plan to purchase, just wondering what you guys thing/or what I should do.

1. GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard

2. Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor

3. G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)

4. Western Digital Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s

5. ZALMAN 9500A 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler

So what do you think?

This post has been edited by Nerwin: 14 November 2009 - 08:38 AM

[CoffeeFiend]

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 09:32 AM, said:

1. GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard

It's a nice board. However, socket 775 is pretty much dead, and that trend will accelerate now that i5 is out. You can even get a half-decent i5 motherboard for less than that one, like this.

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 09:32 AM, said:

2. Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor

Which might be hard to find a nice replacement for once you decide it's no longer fast enough... And as usual, Intel cripples it because it's a budget CPU: no VT for you! Forget about Win7's XP compatibility mode or running 64 bit virtual machines under anything (that's my main complaint about my existing C2D, but the cheapest C2Q with VT would set me back $200)

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 09:32 AM, said:

3. G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)

DDR2 prices are rising very quickly, and I don't see that trend ever changing. It's already more expensive than many similar DDR3 kits like this one. Buying older types of RAM always end up costing way too much. Adding more RAM to this could get expensive.

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 09:32 AM, said:

4. Western Digital Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s

That's a nice drive, no complaints.

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 09:32 AM, said:

5. ZALMAN 9500A 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler

meh... I'd sooner get a Xigmatek or whatever. In fact, I'd probably stick with the stock HSF instead of buying this.


Let's put it that way: the CPU/motherboard/RAM/HSF on your lists costs $335.

For not even $50 more, you could have: GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD2, OCZ Obsidian 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600, Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz.

You get an amazing CPU out of it, no more outdated socket 775 and FSB crap, you get a nice FAST quad core with DMI (very AMD-like: HT-like bus with on-die memory controllers, and even on-die PCIe controller too), it's not crippled (has VT-x and everything else, including SSE4.1 and SSE4.2, it has turbo mode, it has 4x more cache, etc), newer chipset, faster RAM, a somewhat nicer board i.e. the one you picked doesn't even have a eSATA port, should be easier and cheaper to upgrade later on, etc. Oh, and if you wonder how much faster the i5 is... The E5200 gets 1307 in passmark, and the i5 750 gets 4182 (about 3.2x faster). 95W for such a CPU is quite good too.

[ripken204]

that would work well ^

by the end of the year the i5 650/660/670 should be out, they will hopefully be overclocking beasts

[Nerwin]

Thanks, I don't know if i would trust that mobo after reading all of the reviews.

Hey my current machine is a P4 3.2ghz 2gb of ram and sata 150, so anything will be better!

[CoffeeFiend]

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 02:34 PM, said:

Thanks, I don't know if i would trust that mobo after reading all of the reviews.

Lots of reviews are written by nitwits. And the bottom few reviews are all about the board being DOA (something which happens to any board... it's covered under warranty regardless). Either ways, there's plenty of inexpensive boards, so feel free to pick something else.

The extra $50 here goes a LONG way (even if it means not getting the newer hard drive just yet if you're too tight on cash; yours is already a modern SATA drive anyhow). I'd sooner build another AMD box right now (I just built another one last weekend actually) then a LGA-775/DDR2 based system. That's about the worst choice you can make IMO. The i5 and the C2D are worlds apart in every way. If that puts it in perspective: the i5 750 has 4 cores which are each more than double the speed of your P4. It should last few several more years than the C2D.

[Nerwin]

Well the i5's that I find are 200 bucks.

[CoffeeFiend]

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 08:49 PM, said:

Well the i5's that I find are 200 bucks.

The CPU costs more, but the motherboard and RAM is cheaper. The prices I was referring to (when I said $50 more -- it was actually $48) was right from newegg.com

[ripken204]

it will definitely be worth it!
i am so surprised that it is such a small price difference.

the Xigmatek would be a great alternative as well. i have one of those running on a Q6700 just fine.

[puntoMX]

CoffeeFiend, on Nov 14 2009, 02:19 PM, said:

I'd sooner build another AMD box right now (I just built another one last weekend actually) then a LGA-775/DDR2 based system.

Now that the E3200 came out, Intel could have a nice CPU there for OCing, however, you always need a video card to get things run smooth with a modern OS. So, when it comes to budget, AMD would be the way to go, look for example at the Athlon II 240, 245 or their low priced quad. Combine that with a DDR3 based mobo with 785G mobo from Gigabyte and all will run even smooth on a modern OS WITHOUT an extra video card. i5 Is nice but still not cheap enough in my eyes, not even the upcoming series.

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 01:34 PM, said:

Thanks, I don't know if i would trust that mobo after reading all of the reviews.

Like Coffeefriend said; You are talking about people that don't do building for living, I can also mess up a board in a few seconds . For real, I had that board my self for a long time, I even tried to kill it by flashing it wrong, OCing it way over the top, and still it would not die on me...

[Nerwin]

Alright, sounds good then.

If anyone is willing to round up the parts for me, that would be appreciated.

Oh one more question though, What about a sound card? I listen to a lot of music, I got almost 15,000 songs and i'm a musician. Just wondering what would be a good sound card, or if the built in sound card would be really good.

Also - What about a PSU, I got a Antec 430 Watt, that should work just fine right? Since these i5 use less power, right?

Thanks guys

EDIT:

That mobo you suggested, the PCIE X16 only runs at 4X, I do not want that. I want full 16X. Like the one I chose. I'm going to be setting up 3 or 4 monitors so I would need another video card, I would prefer the board to be bigger, well more PCI/or PCIe slots.

This post has been edited by Nerwin: 14 November 2009 - 10:34 PM

[CoffeeFiend]

puntoMX, on Nov 14 2009, 11:03 PM, said:

Now that the E3200 came out

That's a nice basic CPU for sure. But like you said, it's really competing with low-cost AMD boxes, and badly losing (price-wise, which is what matters here) due to the video card requirement and the DDR2 pairing (and no real upgrade path, whereas decent AM3 CPUs will be around for another while unlike LGA775).

puntoMX, on Nov 14 2009, 11:03 PM, said:

i5 Is nice but still not cheap enough in my eyes, not even the upcoming series.

It's not cheap, but I figured that within $50 (~330 or ~380) of what he was going to buy, it was close enough to mention it, especially when there's that much difference between both setups (it's not what I'd call low budget to begin with)

Edit: Nerwin posted while I was writing this...

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

If anyone is willing to round up the parts for me, that would be appreciated.

I picked different RAM this time, as the other one ran out of stock since my last post.

Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I5750 - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD2 LGA 1156 Intel P55 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model HY63I1B16K - Retail
Total: $384.97, so $50 more than your initial list (no hard drive counted in either)

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

Oh one more question though, What about a sound card?

It totally depends on what you have now, and what you expect out of it. I replaced my old Creative card by onboard Realtek and couldn't be happier (better sound, FAR better drivers, better connections and all). If you're into low-latency multitrack ASIO stuff, then of course onboard won't cut it for you.

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

I got a Antec 430 Watt, that should work just fine right?

Yep.

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

That mobo you suggested, the PCIE X16 only runs at 4X, I do not want that.

No, the second PCIe x16 is only at 4x. The board you picked initially doesn't support both slots at x16 either (you only have so many lanes available). Either ways, there are dozens of other LGA 1156 boards.

[Nerwin]

Thanks CoffeFriend,

This is going to turn into a $500+ project, haha. Only if I had the money.

The only most high graphical program I use is Photoshop and Lightroom. Thats it, and I can run those with out any problems (unlike my current machine) This I would be happy. I really wanted to have dual video cards, for triple and quad screens. Being a semi-pro photographer, The more screens the better! haha.

I do need a hard drive, that is high priority. Mine is getting old, just don't want it to fail and don't have anymore spare hard drives laying around.

Indeed i5 is better, but to be honest, I don't really need it. The Wolfdale CPU I chose would be plenty for me, I would think. Most likily I would bump it up to 3.2ghz though. One of my friends had the very same mobo and cpu combo and ran it at 4.5ghz on AIR! Until summer hit and it started over heated. But he said it's a really great combo.

I hear good things from both sides, it's a hard decision to make. It really sucks not having a job, no luck on wining the lotto either. But hopefully good things will come my way, at least that's what most of the fortune cookies I eat says...

[CoffeeFiend]

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

The only most high graphical program I use is Photoshop and Lightroom

Photoshop CS4 works fantastic on any ~$50 video card, even on a basic AMD box, including the x64 version (which is great, apart from 32 bit plugins not working). AFAIK Lightroom isn't GPU accelerated so YMMV.

Nerwin, on Nov 14 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

I really wanted to have dual video cards, for triple and quad screens. Being a semi-pro photographer, The more screens the better! haha.

Define semi-pro? Graphics is part of what I do for a living. And even as a heavy user of the CS4 suite, I don't have a need for multiple monitors. One *GOOD* and large monitor is what you really need IMO (works for me at least). You can easily customize Photoshop's interface to suit your needs (workspaces help, there is the configurator too), and make it get out of your way (i.e. press tab, or shift tab -- also learn your keyboard shortcuts!) It's not like the old days where we used a 2nd monitor to move the palettes to (and also because they were too small), the tabbed interface also helps a lot. I never really wanted a 2nd monitor for ACR or Bridge either. BTW, CS4 doesn't make use of more than one video card either (it uses OpenGL, and both cards would have to have each other's data somehow). It can even be tricky with a 2nd monitor on the same card. It would be a fairly expensive setup too (assuming nicely sized and good quality monitors) -- that extra money would likely be better spent on a nice Wacom tablet, unless you already have one.

Either ways, it's your money. Personally, I'm definitely not going to waste mine on a LGA 775 + DDR2 setup at this point.

[Nerwin]

haha, Well a Professional Photographer gets paid, I don't get paid, but I do some photography jobs in the side when I can, some I get paid and some I don't so I call my self a semi-pro photographer.

You may be right, I don't need 3 monitors, but I do want 2 monitors, currently I have one 22inch and a 17inch. Not the best set up, but it works.

And Photoshop and Lightroom runs like crap on my system! it's so incredible choppy. When using brushes, it's not smooth, it takes a few seconds for it move the brush. Did it a little in vista, but not as much in Windows 7.

Man, I really don't know what to do.

I guess when the time comes, I can figure it out. Most likely next month, I'm not 100 percent positive right now. I just need a better computer than what I have. I can't using photoshop/and or Light room.

Just getting sick of the slowness, sometimes it can put a stop to my productivity.

EDIT: BTW, my video card is a Nvidia 7600 GT KO.

Also - I am extremely tired, so forgive me for my spelling/grammar mistakes

This post has been edited by Nerwin: 14 November 2009 - 11:27 PM

[CoffeeFiend]

Nerwin, on Nov 15 2009, 12:23 AM, said:

And Photoshop and Lightroom runs like crap on my system! it's so incredible choppy. When using brushes, it's not smooth, it takes a few seconds for it move the brush.

Ouch.

Nerwin, on Nov 15 2009, 12:23 AM, said:

my video card is a Nvidia 7600 GT KO.

Photoshop laughed at my previous card (8600GT which is faster than yours) before so... For the record, that's what made me upgrade mine. Sounds to me like you're also in for a video card.

If you can't afford the extra $50 for the much, much better i5, then I'd probably go AMD then. Cheaper & faster DDR3, non-crippled CPU, no socket that's being EOL'ed...

Here's another option:
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GT-UD3H AM3 AMD 785G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail (has two x16 slots just like the previous two)
(or the ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO AM3 AMD 785G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail if you're really into ASUS)
AMD Athlon II X2 240 Regor 2.8GHz Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADX240OCGQBOX - Retail (faster than the E5200)
A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model HY63I1B16K - Retail (faster and cheaper than DDR2)

Total: $235.97, so about $100 less for something better. Leaving you with the extra money in case the onboard Radeon 4200 video isn't good enough for you (it will do CrossFireX with a new card too, and you can use outputs from both for your dual monitor setup as well). A machine like this will run Photoshop CS4 and Lighroom just fine.

Now, that's closer to what I'd call a budget system (it's very much like the one I build last weekend actually). In a couple years' time, you'll still be able to find new CPUs made for that board (you can even get a quad core for it for like $100 right now), and bumping the RAM to 8GB (useful if you do a lot of pano work and such things -- I've had Photoshop use all of 4GB on me before doing just that) without breaking the bank.

[ripken204]

panorama work, you need 12GB for that, haha.
i use all 6GB when i do that and the computer comes to a halt.

just an FYI, lightroom 2.5 still doesn't run perfect even on an i7, they are still working on the program.
lightroom 3 should be smoother, i havn't really messed with that yet. no plans for GPU acceleration as far as i know.

that AMD build is quite a great budget computer though, assuming you want to go AMD.

and i find multiple monitors necessary for much of what i do (coding).
as far as photography or photoshop i normally just use one monitor.

This post has been edited by ripken204: 15 November 2009 - 10:58 AM

[CoffeeFiend]

ripken204, on Nov 15 2009, 11:57 AM, said:

panorama work, you need 12GB for that, haha.

Depends on how many shots, and at which resolution The more, the better for sure. The x64 version of Photoshop is great for things like this (although a lot of people use other tools like PTGui instead)

ripken204, on Nov 15 2009, 11:57 AM, said:

that AMD build is quite a great budget computer though, assuming you want to go AMD.

It's not as nice as the i5 system for sure, but it's nicer than the LGA775/DDR2 setup in many ways, and it's a lot cheaper. If he can't afford the extra $50 for the MUCH better i5, and also needs the new video card on top of that (more $ over his budget), then I figured he could use something more wallet-friendly. The money saved could go towards more RAM, or a Radeon 4670 (also good for games, a 4650 would be plenty though) and bigger hard drive, or most of a 4850 (if he wants to play games a lot), or if he really wants two cards then it would pay for a pair of 4650's (or the most part of a pair of 4670's), or a quad core CPU, or a lot of other things (including photo gear, or even just keeping the money)

ripken204, on Nov 15 2009, 11:57 AM, said:

i find multiple monitors necessary for much of what i do (coding).
as far as photography or photoshop i normally just use one monitor.

Same here. Dual monitors are great for a lot of things, but photo work wise... I really don't see the need. 1920x1200 is enough space (2560x1600 would be nicer, but 30" IPS LCDs are still on the expensive side)

[Nerwin]

Well I decided to wait a bit more longer and see if I can just build a whole new system. Case and all. I will try my best to get my budget as high as a I can. I need to go and figure a few things out before hand but, if I can do this it should be worth it, maybe I could even go with an i7. I don't know yet.

What would $750 bring me? (don't bother with the case, I can get that anytime.

I do want A video card, I don't need two, but would like the extra spot available for one, just in case. I would prefer I nice sound card, but I guess it depends.

I'm just trying to get a few options going in my mind. Thanks guys for helping me, I really appreciate it.

[ripken204]

don't worry about sound yet, it's nice to have but not necessary.
for $750 then definitely at least an i5

[Nerwin]

I don't know man, I'm a sound man

Random Question, does anyone have anything against Full Tower cases?