[Siginet]

I'm wanting to test installing from usb on a bios that does not allow usb booting By booting into the current windows xp. But I can't seem to figure out how to do this.

I suppose I can somehow edit the boot.ini and select grub4dus from the menu... but I don't know how to make it see the usb drive.

I'm thinking it would be great if we could somehow utalize ilko_t's small iso method. Tweaked somehow so that it loads a usb driver before launching setup.

Has anyone done this?

Thanks!

This post has been edited by Siginet: 13 December 2009 - 05:32 PM

[wimb]

May be you can use the principles used in U_XP_SET:

First Connect USB-stick having XP Setup Source folder and then Boot as usual from HDD with Windows XP.
Run USB_XP_Setup.exe of U_XP_SET package and Select XP Setup Source on USB-stick
and then using GO you produce a WinXP Setup BootFolder next to running XP,
which you can select from boot.ini menu next time on booting from HDD and where you can use XP Setup Source folder located on USB-stick.

This is Install XP from USB without booting from USB
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=21883

This post has been edited by wimb: 14 December 2009 - 02:06 AM

[Siginet]

Yeah I have used that method in the past. But I am thinking that we could possibly make it so that we do not need to put to boot files on the hard drive. Basically my idea is that we use a mini iso simular to ilko_t's:
http://www.msfn.org/.../2-t139737.html

But with a usb driver in it. I think FiraDisk can do this if I understand correctly?

This way we could boot into a PE or into an existing Windows Install... Launch a file to setup the boot.ini and restart the computer and get the option in boot.ini to launch the setup which would then act just like an original USB install.

It sounds like we have the technology to do it allready... but I don't understand firadisk enough to figure it out.

[ilko_t]

How about we start PLoP from the hard drive and then start from USB using it? E.g. boot.ini-->grldr-->PLoP floppy image-->USB
There might be a better option to start PLoP from ntldr/boot.ini, without grldr in the middle, haven't looked at it's web page for alternatives.

There might be needed some adjustments in txtsetup.sif as it uses ARC path to the USB disk and I am not sure if BIOS does not support boot from USB, whether such path will be valid to the USB disk.

[jaclaz]

@Siginet
But where would the "mini iso" be saved?

I mean, all you need, apart the edit in boot.ini, is PLoP and a way to load it (and grub4dos seems just right).

I.e. you add to root of the hard disk (temporarily):

• grldr
  
• menu.lst
  
• plpbt.bin

BOOT.INI:

C:\grub4dos:"Grub4dos"

menu.lst:
title PLoP Boot Manager
find --set-root /plpbt.bin
kernel /plpbt.bin

You can even get rid of menu.lst by editing the embedded menu.lst of grldr.

But all in all if the PC does not have USB booting capbilities, why not leaving this possibility even after the install?

At this moment:

• grldr 220,921 bytes
  
• plpbt.bin 42,876 bytes

I don't think the disk occupation to be a problem.

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 15 December 2009 - 12:35 PM

[Siginet]

Very nice! Thanks guys!

Sounds very easy. I think I'll throw together a quick autoit exe with the needed files compiled that will automatically do the needed changes to boot.ini and put the files on the drive or remove them if they allready exist.

BTW... what would be the method for vista/win7/2008? So I can add that capability too.

I'm curious... is it manditory that grldr be on the root of the hard drive? I tried to put it in boot.ini to launch from C:\WINDOWS\GRUB\grldr... but it did not work. I just figured if it was something to leave on the hard drive it would be nice to have it inside the Windows dir... so that most users would not notice it as clutter on the drive. If it possibly could be launched from within a subfolder it would be great.

Also... I could not figure out how to edit the embedded config inside of grldr so I can get rid of the need for menu.lst.

This post has been edited by Siginet: 14 December 2009 - 04:56 PM

[jaclaz]

Siginet, on Dec 14 2009, 11:00 PM, said:

I'm curious... is it manditory that grldr be on the root of the hard drive? I tried to put it in boot.ini to launch from C:\WINDOWS\GRUB\grldr... but it did not work. I just figured if it was something to leave on the hard drive it would be nice to have it inside the Windows dir... so that most users would not notice it as clutter on the drive. If it possibly could be launched from within a subfolder it would be great.

Also... I could not figure out how to edit the embedded config inside of grldr so I can get rid of the need for menu.lst.

There may be some problems in accessing files in that stage, but the problem is that AFAIK grldr initial part tries to "find itself" and it looks in ROOT of any partition, even a hidden one, but not in folders.

Some releases may behave differently.


About the embedded menu.lst read here:
http://diddy.boot-la...es/embedded.htm
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?...c=6775&st=5
http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?...=8634&st=13

But since we are into the realm of experimentation, you can also edit it to point to BOOT.INI itself .
Try a BOOT.INI like this:

title PLoP Boot Manager
find --set-root /plpbt.bin
kernel /plpbt.bin
boot

[boot loader]
Timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
C:\grldr=grub4dos

Before changing the "menu.lst" in the embedded to "boot.ini", simply go to command line in grub4dos and issue command:

configfile /boot.ini

What happens?

The NTLDR parses BOOT.INI starting from the first "[", so you can add something before it:
http://www.msfn.org/board/win-98-and-win-x...604-page-8.html

Of course I am COMPLETELY in disagreement to the approach you chose.

Both grub4dos and PLoP are in continuous development, and hard-coding them inside the .exe means putting on the HD a "static" version, unless you continuously update the app.

BTW, your approach is an infringement of the GPL license of GRUB/grub4dos, you should add the COPYING license file and at least a minimal text explaining that your app contains GPL code.

You do NOT actually "need" grub4dos to load PLoP:
http://www.plop.at/e...ger.html#runwin

Quote

Run from the Windows boot menu (2K, XP and VISTA)

Download the file plpgenbtldr-0.7.zip and extract it.

Create a directory like c:\plop. You can use any directory you want.

Copy plpbt.bin and plpgenbtldr.exe to your c:\plop directory.

As administrator/with administrator rights open a command shell and change to c:\plop

Then start plpgenbtldr
This program searches for the file plpbt.bin in the currrent directory.
plpgenbtldr generates the file plpbtldr.bin.

Adding to the boot menu. Windows 2K and XP is different to Windows VISTA

Windows 2K, XP

add the line below to your c:\boot.ini

c:\plop\plpbtldr.bin="PLoP Boot Manager"

Windows VISTA

open notepad as administrator and create a file c:\boot.ini
add those lines

[boot loader]
[operating systems]
c:\plop\plpbtldr.bin="PLoP Boot Manager"

Thanks to tri_zet for this info


Now you should be able to start the PLoP Boot Manager from your Windows boot menu.

You can configure the file plpbt.bin with plpcfgbt.
Problems/Errors

plpbt.bin must not be fragmeted! Use contig to take care, that plpbt.bin is not fragmented.

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 15 December 2009 - 04:37 AM

[Siginet]

Yeah I was thinking about the editing of grldr and I think it would not be a good idea. Besides.. with the menu.lst being on the hard drive it will allow users to modify it and put their own stuff in there as well. So I think it's fine the way it is now.

Since this should be do-able without grub I will also attempt to do that as well.

[jaclaz]

Siginet, on Dec 15 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

Besides.. with the menu.lst being on the hard drive it will allow users to modify it and put their own stuff in there as well. So I think it's fine the way it is now.

Yes, I suggested grub4dos as it allows more "flexibility" and future additions.

Siginet, on Dec 15 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

Since this should be do-able without grub I will also attempt to do that as well.

Yes , this would be - by chainloading directly plpbtldr.bin from BOOT.INI - the very minimal and non-intrusive solution for single OS booters on a non-USB enabled at boot-time motherboard.

Please also note that in several cases whilst the actual chips in the motherboard are USB 2.0 compatible, the BIOS only loads at boot time at 1.1 speed, in these cases using PLoP even if the motherborad supports USB booting gives a very noticeably speed boost to the process.


jaclaz

[Siginet]

OK... I have successfuly figured out the PLoP only method... but... for some reason it does not go to the same screen where I can just select "USB". It goes to some sort of instsall screen where I need to choose #3... then select Yes... then click #9 for it to restart. Then the computer restarts automatically to the "USB" screen like before. Then it will allways boot to USB until I go back to the install screen... press #5... choose yes... then #9 to restart. Which now restarts correctly.

Seems like a LOT of un-needed work.

So I'll keep messing with it and see if I can figure out a way to go directly to the screen to choose "USB".

Also... the good thing about PLoP only... is the fact I can install it to C:\WINDOWS\PLoP. So it is not cluttering the Root of the C drive.

This post has been edited by Siginet: 15 December 2009 - 01:00 PM

[jaclaz]

Siginet, on Dec 15 2009, 08:00 PM, said:

OK... I have successfuly figured out the PLoP only method... but... for some reason it does not go to the same screen where I can just select "USB". It goes to some sort of instsall screen where I need to choose #3... then select Yes... then click #9 for it to restart. Then the computer restarts automatically to the "USB" screen like before. Then it will allways boot to USB until I go back to the install screen... press #5... choose yes... then #9 to restart. Which now restarts correctly.

Seems like a LOT of un-needed work.

So I'll keep messing with it and see if I can figure out a way to go directly to the screen to choose "USB".

Also... the good thing about PLoP only... is the fact I can install it to C:\WINDOWS\PLoP. So it is not cluttering the Root of the C drive.

Most probably - for this "vertical" use - you can configure plpbt.bin:
http://www.plop.at/e...r.html#plpcfgbt

jaclaz