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Hotfix Lists: TommyP vs. Mimo..?

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11 replies to this topic

#1
spinjector

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Ok, I started reading the Hotfixes thread and... . . . stopped.

There was so much information that I wrote a Word VBA script to pull it down into a DOC file so I could print it, read it, tag some stuff with a highlighter, and maybe learn something.

It came out to 92 pages. <_<

The lists themselves look mostly the same, but at first glance there are about a dozen differences.

So...

Which list is correct(er)?

Edited by spinjector, 18 December 2009 - 01:53 PM.



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#2
krose

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TommyP's list is for Win2K, Mim0's is for WinXP SP3. That's why they're different.

#3
spinjector

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Then what do you call this?

http://www.vorck.com...otfixes_xp.html

#4
Kiki Burgh

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hi! list in that link is perhaps just being ported from mim0's (hmm ... perhaps, separately maintained too :D )... there had been diff xp lists prepared by tomcat, tommyp, muppet hunter ... & the latest one is maintained by mim0 ... which mostly use (coupled with the hfslipfc tool)

Edited by Kiki Burgh, 18 December 2009 - 06:26 PM.

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#5
tommyp

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Relax everyone. There's two maintainers of XP hotfix lists (mimo and muppet hunter). FDV is hosting muppet hunter's list, mimo is hosting his own.

On a sidenote, I get a kick out of the unattended MSFN board that has a stickied windows update list where the last post was sometime in March. I'm not sure why an outdated thread is stickied, but what do I know.
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#6
bphlpt

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Thanks for the explanation, TommyP. I had thought that Mimo had gotten involved at your and FDV's request about a month ago due to Muppet Hunter being busy elsewhere? Is there any particular difference between the 2 lists in content and/or approach?

I wish that Tomcat76's Dynamic Hotfix lists were still maintained. I used to use it a couple of years ago with Win2K.

This reminds me of the different versions of Post XP SP3 Update Packs available. I know of versions by RyanVM/user_hidden, redxii, Xable, Onepiece, and Ricktendo64 (Spanish only). And code65536 and 5eraph used to make Update Packs I believe, but don't currently. I hope I didn't leave anyone out, if I did, it was not intentional and I apologize. Anyway, though there are various versions available, For the most part, there are defined distinctions between them in regards to content/approach, from conservative to "kitchen sink". And of course, this doesn't even include other approaches such as Windows Updates Downloader.

It's perfectly OK to have more than one update list, but it'd be nice to know if there is any real difference between them. If there's not much of a difference, maybe everybody should work together on a single list, saving the users from confusion, and helping out on the list developer's work load? I personally have thought a lot of Mimo's list and his File Checker program, but I got involved with it during the time when Muppet Hunter's list wasn't being updated as often.

That's just my opinion. Any others? And please, this is NOT intended to start any kind of flame war in any way whatsoever.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt, 19 December 2009 - 08:37 PM.

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#7
spinjector

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Is there any particular difference between the 2 lists in content and/or approach?
...
For the most part, there are defined distinctions between them in regards to content/approach, from conservative to "kitchen sink".
...
And of course, this doesn't even include other approaches such as Windows Updates Downloader.

Thank you, Bphlpt. That's a much better worded question. It's exactly what I was thinking, but I didn't ask it well.

My thought's on the matter are as follows:

1) At the most basic, do what Windows Update/Microsoft Update wants, with a couple exceptions like WGA.

2) But that leads to overlap, such that one or more updates get completely overwritten by a later one, like a stack of pancakes. So all the earlier ones aren't needed. These are difficult for the laymen to weed out.

3) And there are optional items that one would see on WU/MU.

4) And more optional items that you only find in KB articles.

To me, 1 & 2 are the most important, and 3 & 4 would be based on personal preference and/or needs.

And regarding #1 - that's actually how I did my first HFSLIP. I did a gold-install of XP, then SP3, and actually took notes of every single item that WU/MU wanted to install, downloaded them all, fed them to HFSLIP, and then repeated the process until WU/MU said I didn't need any more updates. This was all before I found the update lists. A long way to do it, but hey it worked. =-)

#8
bphlpt

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I did a gold-install of XP, then SP3, and actually took notes of every single item that WU/MU wanted to install, downloaded them all, fed them to HFSLIP, and then repeated the process until WU/MU said I didn't need any more updates. This was all before I found the update lists. A long way to do it, but hey it worked. =-)

This is actually the first basic step that all the good list creators use to create their lists. :) Then, if they want to add more, they begin to add features, such as DirectX, and the optional additions, such as IE8, and keep going back to WU/MU to check for any necessary updates. To be thorough, they might also comb through the various KB articles for advice and look for feedback from other users, like the ones on this forum and others. The difference between the lists is usually how far they choose to go with the additions they choose. Whether they want to try and add it all for the user's convenience, or they choose to stick with the basics, and let anything else be at the user's discretion. I haven't looked at Muppet Hunter's list in detail since he resumed his updates, so I don't know if there is any real difference between his and Mimo's approach/content. It will be interesting to hear directly from them about that.

Cheers and Regards

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#9
Muppet Hunter

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Hello all

I just found this topic after doing a bit of catch-up reading. Here's a few points which should answer everyone's questions.

I took over the list from TommyP back in about August and about 3 months ago there was a bit of a mix-up with my sending a new list to fdv for hosting. To cut a long story short, I had gone on a trip to Holland and it was thought that I'd abandoned it when fdv and tp tried to message me. I was a bit busy for a couple of the lists and my last one was about a week late, so I could see how it looked.

Mimo answered the call to do the XP list and I subsequently contacted fdv and tp just to say what happened after I saw that fdv had uploaded my list after Mimo had taken over.

It was eventually decided that two lists were better than one and I think this has worked out well. Mimo has developed a nice update checker and sparked more interest to the extent that there's more discussion about what the best/latest updates are.

My list could probably be considered a stable, minimal version to satisfy WU and when I took over I just tried to improve it without radically altering things. It just does the base stuff and fits with my own way of working - to just install anything that isn't slipstreamable (eg dotnetfx) after Windows gets installed. Like a lot of others who use hfslip, I tend to cut a lot of stuff out (although I normally use nLite for this), so I'm not into getting the latest updates for quite a few things.

Mimo's list is more detailed with extra stuff that a lot of people seem to want, but which I probably wouldn't have included. It's very good, very neat and more people seem to be interested in hfslip as a result, which is a good thing imo. Mimo obviously puts in a lot of work into putting together and supporting his list.

I find it very hard to keep track of and categorise everything and I've learned to be careful about including stuff which might not work for everyone. There's no absolutely consistent way to categorise everything which would suit everyone, but with two lists (and others elsewhere) there should be enough info to help everyone keep updated.

I'm currently trying to see if there's a good way in which to make it easier to check the list against what's in the hotfix folder on one's harddrive. It's easier for me to maintain the list in date order and easier to see what's new each month. However, mistakes get made and it's maybe harder to account for each and every update unless they're in name order.

There's still lots I'm doing with my list and I'm currently sorting through my own hotfixes. This basically means that I'll be taking a look at some of the latest beta hotfixes (this info can be useful later on if a stable fix gets released), looking at the WMP stuff and trying to get some kind of record of all the individual files within all the fixes. That last bit might take a while, but it should stop unnecessary fixes from being included.

I don't really use WMP, WU, Office so any comments/corrections are welcome - just post in the Updates thread to which I'm now subscribed.

MH

Edited by Muppet Hunter, 14 January 2010 - 04:06 AM.


#10
Kiki Burgh

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hi Muppet Hunter! i am sure that HFSLIP users benefit from having your list & Mim0's list out there (to add to this, i likewise check on -X-'s list) ... & since you are on the path to modifying (or improving) it, a dynamic list used to be maintained by tomcat was very user friendly (it'd be nice to have) ... the_guy too maintained his own (& tommyp & fdv) ... just kinda sad tc & the_guy ceased to maintain it ... but who's to fret when we have the current lists serve the same purpose ;) work such as this is greatly appreciated!
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#11
mukke

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hi Muppet Hunter! i am sure that HFSLIP users benefit from having your list & Mim0's list out there (to add to this, i likewise check on -X-'s list) ... & since you are on the path to modifying (or improving) it, a dynamic list used to be maintained by tomcat was very user friendly (it'd be nice to have) ... the_guy too maintained his own (& tommyp & fdv) ... just kinda sad tc & the_guy ceased to maintain it ... but who's to fret when we have the current lists serve the same purpose ;) work such as this is greatly appreciated!

Dito, tu!

#12
Muppet Hunter

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a dynamic list used to be maintained by tomcat was very user friendly (it'd be nice to have)

I know the list you're talking about and I quite liked it too. Absolutely no promises, but I'll take a look at that.




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