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Can't read dvd drive in DOS mode

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54 replies to this topic

#1
Fredledingue

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When I restart in DOS mode I can't access dvd's in the dvd drive. :blink:

example:
dir g:
invalid drive specification


See solution on page 2.

Edited by Fredledingue, 28 January 2010 - 12:43 PM.

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submix8c

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Right here...
You need the drivers loaded...

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#3
herbalist

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Do those CDROM drivers work for DVD drives?

#4
submix8c

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AFAICR, it's irrelevant whether CD or DVD as the internal "pointers" are what truly matters. Test it out with a Boot Floppy (ie EBD) and if it works with that (pop a DVD in), just modify accordingly. Bear in mind that if you have multiple CD/DVD drives, you'll have to have multiple lines in the BAT/SYS...

:blushing: I stand corrected (jaclaz below, and yes the utility shown works...)

Edited by submix8c, 09 January 2010 - 01:34 PM.

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#5
jaclaz

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Hey peeps are you joking or WAHT? :w00t:

The good MS guys must have had a really GOOD crystal ball to make MSCDEX.EXE compatible with something that WAS NOT EVEN INVENTED at the time. :whistle:

SHSUCDX might be more appropriate ;):
http://johnson.tmfc....os/shsucdx.html

Homesite at the moment down:
http://adoxa.110mb.com/

Original site gone for good:
http://www.geocities...jadoxa/shsucdx/

Still available ;):
http://www.reocities...jadoxa/shsucdx/

jaclaz

#6
dencorso

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SHSUCDX is the best idea. But it's just the installable CDFS driver. So you'll also need to previously load a driver for the hardware itself, and it depends on whether you have an IDE (=PATA), SATA, USB or FireWire connected drive. You'll find most of them collected here and here. That's all you need for CDFS-formatted optical media. Now, if the DVD is formatted as UDF, I'm not sure you can read it from DOS. I think SHSUCDX does not implement UDF, but I may be wrong here. Check its readme.text and version history for it. Good luck!

#7
sp193

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dir g:
invalid drive specification

You didn't load the drivers for MS-DOS to access the drive.

So you'll also need to previously load a driver for the hardware itself, and it depends on whether you have an IDE (=PATA), SATA, USB or FireWire connected drive.

Correct. I think that it's also important to add that OAKCDROM (And similar IDE CD-ROM drivers) only works for IDE optical drives. They won't recognize or detect optical drives installed on other buses (e.g USB, IEEE1394, SATA). You need to install and load the appropriate drivers for your bus (And optical drive) if OAKCDROM does not work for your system.

The good MS guys must have had a really GOOD crystal ball to make MSCDEX.EXE compatible with something that WAS NOT EVEN INVENTED at the time.

OAKCDROM and MSCDEX work with DVD-ROM drives (In fact, all drives I've seen so far).

DVD-drives are actually similar to CD-ROM drives, work similarly, and share the same ISO9660 filesystem. However, the media, laser and some parts of the DVD-drive are different to support the new DVD medium (CD-ROMS have a lower density).

If DVD-drives were really so different, then you can't boot from a DVD drive from the BIOS of a old PC, as some old BIOSes were made in the era of CD-ROM dominance (Pre-2000, but you CAN boot from DVD drives installed on such machines.). They actually can't tell the difference between a DVD-ROM and CD-ROM device, but only identify them as a "ATAPI CD-ROM device" (Depending on your BIOS).

I even managed to get MSCDEX to work with my external USB DVD-RW DL writer.

I had to use USBASPI.sys, usbcd.sys and load MSCDEX.exe to access it though.

Now, if the DVD is formatted as UDF, I'm not sure you can read it from DOS.

You can't view UDF-formatted discs from MS-DOS and old versions of Windows (Pre-Windows 98 I believe) without 3rd-party software installed.

You may not even be able to view Joliet filesystems. I think that MS-DOS only supported ISO9660 out-of-the-box with MSCDEX loaded and resident.

You'll need some other software to read UDF and Joliet filesystems from MS-DOS.

Edited by sp193, 10 January 2010 - 06:10 AM.

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#8
Fredledingue

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Thanks for the replies.

It's amazing that windows doesn't install this driver by defaut and that no patch or service pack installs it.

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#9
jaclaz

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You may not even be able to view Joliet filesystems. I think that MS-DOS only supported ISO9660 out-of-the-box with MSCDEX loaded and resident.

You'll need some other software to read UDF and Joliet filesystems from MS-DOS.


Yep, that's what I meant. :blushing:

MSCDEX was released long before the ISO9660-1999 extensions were out, and a large number of DVD, even if not using UDF, use the isolevel only present in the extensions.
http://www.mrichter..../primer/udf.htm
http://old.nabble.co...td14611122.html

I don't think there is anything capable of UDF on CD/DVD for "pure" DOS.
http://en.wikipedia....sal_Disk_Format

Maybe sometimes the good FreeDOS guys will make one. :)

jaclaz

#10
Fredledingue

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According to instruction I have to create a file "dosstart.bat" with the line:
MSCDEX /D:mscd001

("mscd001" is the cd-r drive name mentioned in config.sys)

When I restart in MS-DOS, it fails and says:

Device Driver not foud: "mscd001"
No valid CDROM drive driver selected


What should I do?

Edited by Fredledingue, 10 January 2010 - 01:45 PM.

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#11
Fredledingue

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I tried SHSUCDX and it doesn't work neither:

Cannot find "mscd001" driver. SHSUCDX33 cannot load.

It's like DOS ignores config.sys...

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#12
Ponch

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I tried SHSUCDX and it doesn't work neither:

Cannot find "mscd001" driver. SHSUCDX33 cannot load.

It's like DOS ignores config.sys...

Are you sure the path to whatever driver you're invoking in the config.sys is set right ?
Can you get the config.sys ran line by line at boot to see if there is any error reported and that the line is not ignored (you don't have a multiboot setting)? I can't remember what you need to do that, man I feel old now. I think you had to hold Shift for safe mode then choose one of the options.

#13
dencorso

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You may not even be able to view Joliet filesystems. I think that MS-DOS only supported ISO9660 out-of-the-box with MSCDEX loaded and resident.

You'll need some other software to read UDF and Joliet filesystems from MS-DOS.


Yep, that's what I meant. :blushing:

You all ought to heed jaclaz, he sure knows what he's talking about.
SHSUCDX does understand Joliet and accepts non-standard things like lowercase letters in CDFS.
I've switched to SHSUCDX a long time ago (from v. 1.4b, of 2000, by John H. McCoy... by now, I use v. 3.03E, of 2009, by Jack R. Ellis), and never since did use MSCDEX anymore.

#14
Fredledingue

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Ponch,
I can access the dvd drives (there are 2) in windows and even in a dos prompt under windows. It means I can access these drives in DOS when windows is running. I just can't when restarting in DOS mode. So I assume the config.sys settings are correct.

They might have to be different in DOS mode perhaps.

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#15
jaclaz

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So I assume the config.sys settings are correct.


Let's for the moment assume they are not. (under the logic that IF they were, you would have it working) ;)

http://www.computerhope.com/cdromd.htm

Either use the above or post BOTH your Autoexec.bat AND config.sys.

Also, pay particular attention to the part:

REM

Occasionally, Windows or other software programs may place REM in front of the CD-ROM lines within either the autoexec.bat or the config.sys. This tells the computer to skip this line as the computer is booting. Ensure that this is not in front of your CD-ROM lines.


jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 10 January 2010 - 06:33 PM.


#16
sp193

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I just can't when restarting in DOS mode. So I assume the config.sys settings are correct.

Windows loads it's own 32-bit protected mode drivers at startup (After WIN.com has loaded). If you boot into MS-DOS (At startup) or reboot into MS-DOS, those 32-bit drivers won't be loaded. You need to load the MS-DOS drivers (Not installed by default, but some OEM manufactures install them though). I think that MS-DOS drivers are real-mode 16-bit drivers (Someone correct me if I am wrong).

I think you had to hold Shift for safe mode then choose one of the options.

It's CTRL (Or F8). Hold F5 to boot directly into safe mode without displaying the boot options screen.

I tried SHSUCDX and it doesn't work neither:

Cannot find "mscd001" driver. SHSUCDX33 cannot load.

It's like DOS ignores config.sys...


If your options in config.sys and autoexec.bat are correct, your drive is installed on a IDE bus right (And not a SCSI bus)?

Also, the options are CASE SENSITIVE. MSCD001 is not the same as mscd001. Ensure that the driver name after the "/D:" switch in your config.sys is exactly the same as the device name typed after the "/D:" switch in your autoexec.bat.

So you should get something like this:

Config.sys:

DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:MSCD001

Or whatever driver you use.

Autoexec.bat:

LH C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001

replace MSCDEX.EXE in the above line with SHSUCDX33.EXE if you don't use MSCDEX

Edited by sp193, 10 January 2010 - 10:49 PM.

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#17
LoneCrusader

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When I restart in DOS mode I can't access dvd's in the dvd drive. :blink:

example:
dir g:
invalid drive specification


I ran an experiment and got the same result.

However, you do not need special software to read a DVD in DOS, everything you need is on the Windows 98 Boot Disk. I can use my Windows 98 Boot Disk, choose "Start computer with CDROM support," and whenever it loads the drivers I can read a DVD with no problems.

But I'm not sure how to get Windows to load the same things whenever you restart in DOS mode. :unsure:

#18
jaclaz

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But I'm not sure how to get Windows to load the same things whenever you restart in DOS mode. :unsure:

Ever heard of DOSSTART.BAT? :unsure:
http://support.micro...kb/135174/en-us

jaclaz

#19
dencorso

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jaclaz is right: DOSSTART.BAT is a way to do it. Alternatively, to be able to load a CD-ROM DOS device, from config.sys, and not get stuck with it always (you don't want to lose 32-bit access to the DVD drive by forcing Windows to always use a DOS real-mode driver, do you?), it's necessary to disable the automatic loading of Windows. If you do that (that is, set "BootGUI=0" in MSDOS.SYS), you'll now directly boot to the DOS prompt (and need to type "Win <Enter>" to get to Windows, this is really True DOS, after all). Of course, then you can use the menu facility in config.sys to create two alternate boots: one that goes to Windows (the default), and an alternative one that loads say, OAKCDROM.SYS (for an IDE ATAPI DVD Recorder) as a device and SHSUCDX.EXE from an install directive, both in config.sys (of course, there are more possible variations to this procedure than grains of sand in all beaches of the whole world...). This works, but is a lot of work. For once in a while use, a boot diskette is much easier.

#20
submix8c

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But I'm not sure how to get Windows to load the same things whenever you restart in DOS mode. :unsure:

Ever heard of DOSSTART.BAT? :unsure:
http://support.micro...kb/135174/en-us
jaclaz

Right here...
You need the drivers loaded...

Uhhhh, where did I fail to post what needs to be done??? Another alternative is to create a PIF for a specific program with specific BAT/SYS files/parameters (works the same way as DOSSTART). I built an older PC that had both Windows and DOS-mode games (for a g-son) that does just that. When the MS-DOS game completes, (with an EXIT at the end of BAT), it "automagically" restarts Windows...

C'mon, guys, nothing special here, except for using the superior SHSUCDX. Please note that there's (minor) "patching" needed to be done for SMARTDRV+mem-mgrs.

This process was extensively researched during the UBCD98SE (just mentioning it, ok?) project and it worked well. If allowed, I'll post the Autoexec.BAT and Config.SYS variations used, which will also list the other components necessary...

edit - I don't remember the module name offhand (perhaps jaclaz can find it) that will dynamically load a Config.sys-style driver during Autoexec.bat phase (useable in the DOSSTART maybe)... Also, AFAICR, it does no harm to the Windows to put the driver (oakcdrom) in the standard Config.sys and the MSCDROM(whatever) in DOSSTART. Glad to re-test all of this for you if you like, fred (got a dozen moldy-oldie pc's sitting right here! dis-as-sem-bled)...

Edited by submix8c, 11 January 2010 - 11:45 AM.

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#21
jaclaz

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edit - I don't remember the module name offhand (perhaps jaclaz can find it) that will dynamically load a Config.sys-style driver during Autoexec.bat phase (useable in the DOSSTART maybe)... Also, AFAICR, it does no harm to the Windows to put the driver (oakcdrom) in the standard Config.sys and the MSCDROM(whatever) in DOSSTART. Glad to re-test all of this for you if you like, fred (got a dozen moldy-oldie pc's sitting right here! dis-as-sem-bled)...

There are several ones, Dynaload.com, ddl.com, device.com (just ggogle for them)
Devlod:
http://www.ddj.com/s...
http://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/sysutil.html

but surely there are several more that I cannot recall right now.

Cannot say which one (if any) will work for MSCDEX or SHSUCDX and CD driver.

jaclaz

#22
submix8c

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In addition, perhaps this will help "starting MS-DOS Mode" (see attached zipped jpeg). You'll note that starting the "MS-DOS Prompt" (DOSPRMPT.PIF) in the Start Menu/Programs is "built" the same way (a PIF!). If you were to copy it under a new name and alter it, i.e. in Advanced force to MS-DOS Mode then add BAT and SYS lines (they get "embedded"), that it will indeed completely bypass "normal" boot (please note the DEFAULTS under Advanced; look familiar?). I would recommend (again) testing DVD access with an EBD, using whatever you deem acceptable/functional, then just make a new PIF. (Note the good info in all preceding posts.) Guess that makes a "dynaload" unnecessary...

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#23
jaclaz

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Now I remember where I saw one lately, there is devload.com in this USB floppy:
http://johnson.tmfc....dos/usbdrv.html

Here:
http://www.infradead.org/devload/

And yes, it should work allright:
http://osdir.com/ml/...9/msg00020.html
http://www.opensubsc...t/10707321.html


jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 11 January 2010 - 02:05 PM.


#24
dencorso

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OK, Fred, I did some testing, and here's how it's done:

=============
Preparation Steps:
=============

1) Download DEVLOD7.ZIP (from the great Jim Kyle himself!), grab just DEVLOD.COM from inside it and drop it into the C:\WINDOWS folder.
2) Go to this page at cdrom-drivers.com, scroll down, complete and send the Re-Captcha, download Oakcdrom.sys and drop it into the C:\WINDOWS folder, too.
3) Go to this page, download SHCDX33E.ZIP, grab just SHCDX33E.COM from inside it and also drop it into the C:\WINDOWS folder.
4) Open notepad, copy the quoted text below to a text file, save it as DOSDVD.BAT and drop it into the C:\WINDOWS folder, too.

@ECHO OFF
C:\WINDOWS\DEVLOD C:\WINDOWS\OAKCDROM.SYS /D:MYDVDS
C:\WINDOWS\SHCDX33E /D:MYDVDS

==========
Normal Usage:
==========

1) Go to the Start Menu and "Restart in MS-DOS Mode"
2) As soon as you get to the prompt, type DOSDVD <Enter>
If all goes well, now both your DVD Recorders should be recognized and usable.
3) When you finish, you may simply turn off the computer with the power button, or reboot, or type EXIT <Enter> at the prompt, and this will result in a full reboot (because you've loaded resident DOS drivers, so you cannot just go back to Windows, without a full reboot). Notice that if you type EXIT <Enter> before issuing the DOSDVD <Enter>, in this case you get back to Windows without a full reboot, because no resident DOS drivers were loaded yet, so a full reboot was not needed.
4) If this procedure fails to work OK for you, my first guess is that your internal DVD-Recorders are not IDE, but SATA, and in this case, you'll have to substitute OAKCDROM.SYS for another apropriate driver (look for them at MDGx's).
I say this because you've never confirmed (nor denied) that your Recorders are in fact IDE. I'm guessing here.
5) Now, if you don't mind always having to do a full reboot on EXIT, or prefer not to have to remember running DOSDVD every time you "Restart in MS-DOS Mode", before being able to use the DVDs, then simply copy DOSDVD.BAT to DOSSTART.BAT (that also must be located in C:\WINDOWS), and the system will automagically load the DOS drivers for you, every time you "Restart in MS-DOS Mode".
N.B.: I'm also supposing that your %windir% folder is C:\WINDOWS, if this is not true, adjustments have to be made for it, too. I didn't use %windir% in the batch file, because this environment variable doesn't exist outside Windows, that is, in True DOS Mode.

HTH.

#25
submix8c

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Ummm, really confused here -

Per the MS Article -
"APPLIES TO
Microsoft Windows 95
Microsoft Windows 98 Standard Edition"

Looked high and low on my 98SE (clean install) and it does not exist.
The following PIF's do, however, exist -
DOSPRMPT
Exit to DOS <--- this is the booger here (replaces DOSSTART?)
MS-DOS Mode for Games with EMS and XMS Support
MS-DOS Mode for Games

Do another search on "*.BAT" on a Clean Install... what do you find?

We are talking 98 Second Edition, aren't we??? Just right-click on te PIF's and click "Properties"... Soooo, what am I missing? Searching on "string" "DOSSTART" on a C-drive with 98SE install yields several references, among them WIN.COM. I'm thinking that this file is more of a "carryover" from Win95 (specifically Upgrades - see SETUP.TXT, also noted in WinME)...

Anyone???

Besides, isn't it faster to just use a PIF with embedded directives? I can click on those MS-DOS games (ProgramTab w/Close On Exit -plus- Advanced w/Suggest MS-DOS Mode as necessary), play them, then when I exit the program, Windows... Restarts! :blink:

Same methodology applies... I will, however, concede that since WIN.COM has some kind of reference that it probably internally "calls" it when selecting "Shutdown/Restart MS-DOS Mode" if it exists, but why get complex?

Description of MS-DOS Mode

edit -
see dencorso confirmation post below...
whew! pick yer pizen/method is the game...
("I am not krazy, I am not krazy" :wacko: <- yeah rite!!!)

Edited by submix8c, 12 January 2010 - 02:58 PM.

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