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monroe

How To Install DOS USB Drivers ?

32 posts in this topic

I asked this question under the DOS Programs thread ... jaclaz responded suggesting that I start a new thread dealing with this subject. My original post in the DOS Programs ...

Need some help ... advice with installing the DOS USB drivers mentioned in Post #27 (DOS Programs).

I am interested in the USBDOS - http://bretjohnson.us/ package. There are around 28 items + a ReadMe file in the download but I am not sure how to put them on my machine or where. That package is dated Jan 30, 2010. Do I "drag and drop" or "copy and paste", if so, to what folder in Windows or do I click on each item to install?

thanks ...

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Reply from jaclaz ...

@duffy98

It is much more complex than what you think.

Please start a new thread where we can discuss this issue without hijacking the present thread.

jaclaz

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, I will be reading all replies.

thanks ...

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OK. :)

Some questions first:

WHY you want to install DOS USB drivers?

(meaning which USB devices you need to have access to/from pure DOS)?

You know that these drivers are NOT needed in Windows GUI operations and that they may actually interfere witrh Windows 98 "protected mode"?

You do know that loading DOS drivers normally results in further lowering the available memory and thus the size of programs that can be executed/run?

jaclaz

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Is this for use on a separate bootable media, floppy or CD?

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OK, first of all, I have an older Win 98SE computer that I use for testing and trying things out on. I am weak on DOS knowledge ... have never spent that much time on DOS to really get to know what all I can do with it. I was not aware that the Win 98 "protected mode" could be a problem. I just thought I should know how to install these items for general knowledge.

Second, I have a few older desktop computers and my older notebook that do not have a CD burner. I want to try to do a Ghost backup on those computers using a Ghost USB program. I backup my newer computers with Ghost with no problem since they have CD/DVD burners but these older computers, I think I will have to use a USB flash drive in DOS. This is what I understand from searching things out on Google. I need to get the Ghost backup onto a flash drive then go to a computer with a burner and I then have my CD/DVD Ghost backup.

herbalist ... my older computers have both a floppy and CD drive but I try to transfer boot floppies and everything to a CD, much easier to work with.

thanks ...

Edited by duffy98
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So, is your problem related to accessing USB Mass Storage devices only from DOS?

Or is it the problem booting from a USB stick on older PC that do not support USB booting?

Please note how the above two questions are only apparently similar.

jaclaz

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No, all my computers accept a flash drive ... no problem there. I just added this to my last post ... "I need to get the Ghost backup onto a flash drive then go to a computer with a burner and I then have my CD/DVD Ghost backup."

From my research I need to get DOS USB flash drivers so that I can work with a flash drive in DOS. I just thought that DOS USB Driver package (USBDOS - http://bretjohnson.us/ ) would have what I need. I was just going to install the whole package to test other things also. I also have some old DOS games that I bought years ago but have never installed, although I probably don't need that package for that, not sure. Right now, if I have my USB flash drive inserted and I go into DOS with Ghost, I see no USB drives listed ... need the DOS drivers.

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OK, thanks, I will work with those USB drivers later in a few days. Concerning the other package ... what exactly are those DOS drivers? Since I already have Win 98SE with DOS installed, are those drivers already on my hard drive. I'd still like to know how to install something like that package, as I asked in my first post. Just for general knowledge for the future. That person that has that web site seems to be updating that DOS USB package regularly.

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OK, thanks, I will work with those USB drivers later in a few days. Concerning the other package ... what exactly are those DOS drivers? Since I already have Win 98SE with DOS installed, are those drivers already on my hard drive. I'd still like to know how to install something like that package, as I asked in my first post. Just for general knowledge for the future. That person that has that web site seems to be updating that DOS USB package regularly.

I wonder which is the difficult part in this:

The programs are all still in a testing phase (alpha/beta), so do not yet include complete documentation. Read the included USBINTRO.DOC file for documentation and information on how to use the programs.

The zip file contains more than 20 different programs, and includes drivers for keyboards, mice, joysticks, printers, disk drives, and hubs, as well as several different test and support programs. Unfortunately, the only type of host controller currently supported is UHCI (full-speed controllers made by Intel and Via Technologies). Support for additional host controllers (OHCI, EHCI, WHCI, XHCI) and devices will be added in the future.

I'll try to translate it:

  • this is alpha/beta software, ONLY people with an adequate DOS background, and specifical DOS driver knowledge should attempt using it
  • the USBINTRO is a 186 page document, you should read them all
  • you cannot expect that anyone will explain the whole 186 pages AND teach you about DOS driver loading on a technical board
  • in order to be able to read and understand the mentioned document you need to have a base knowledge; from the fact you posted:
    Do I "drag and drop" or "copy and paste", if so, to what folder in Windows or do I click on each item to install?
    I presume that you miss this base knowledge, that you can only build by reading, googling, and reading again, and experimenting, in order to have the needed DOS background

Please don't take the above as "I don't want to help/assist you", but you should be conscious of what you are asking, more or less a complete DOS course, which I presume would take a few days/weeks.

:hello:

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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Ok ... I missed that line, "Read the included USBINTRO.DOC file for documentation and information on how to use the programs." at the web page. After unzipping the package, I read the "readme" in the package but there is no mention made in there to go the USBINTRO.DOC. I saw it but didn't open it. Had no reason to go back to the web site where I might have read that line. Honest mistake on my part ... with 186 pages I may have to put that off for a few days also. I will figure it all out. ... thanks

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Building a bootable DOS CD or floppy with USB support involves adding several drivers, each of which serves a specific function. There's DPMI and long file name support in addition to being able to access USB devices. Building it requires writing your own config.sys and autoexec.bat to load these drivers. They often have to be loaded in a specific order using specific switches. Give MDGX's site a good look. He's got some good DOS pages there that we'd be hard pressed to do any better. What drivers you add really depends on what you're going to do with that disk, and like Jaclaz said, this is a very big subject that could take many pages to cover.

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Thanks jaclaz and herbalist ... as I mentioned before, my knowledge of DOS is very limited. I worked for the government in the early 90s when I actually got my first computer placed on my desk ... it was DOS (I think, it was hard to get things figured out!) and then in like 3 months, everybody was getting another new computer with Win 95 on it. That was for me, I at least understood a computer better. It didn't seem to be too very long that new computers with Win 98 were being installed. All that stuff was happening fast back in the 90's. So you might say, DOS came and went fast for me, I just really never had the opportunity to fool around with it. I still have that interest to play around with DOS on one of my computers and try to understand it better and how it worked.

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Just a quick update on the USB Drivers for DOS so that Ghost would also work with a flash drive. I came across this article about Panasonic Japan USB drivers for DOS. This particular package seems to be the one to have. It's called the "miracle driver" from Japan. I never could get my Kingston Data Traveler 4GB flash drive to show up in DOS but now it does. I was able to make a Ghost backup on a computer with no CD/DVD burner. I made the backup to the flash drive and then went to another computer with a burner to put the backup on a CD.

Article about the Panasonic Japan driver:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1046069/yes-usb-drivers-dos

This is just the "beginning" of the article and it does mention using Ghost:

Yes, there are USB drivers for DOS...

Miracle-driver from Panasonic Japan does the unthinkable

By Fernando Cassia

Friday, 27 June 2003

HAVING AN EXTERNAL USB cd-writer or hard disk works wonders as long as your operating system is in good shape. But if someday the system stops booting, you are lost. Booting from good old MS-DOS or Windows boot diskettes - even fitted with the needed third party NTFSDOS or EXTFS drivers - gives you access to your fixed hard disk only, but none of the USB peripherals can be accessed from the DOS command line.

Before you start scratching your head, let me repeat that this is not related to your favorite linux distro's or Windows XP/W2K/98/ME's USB support, this has to do with people like me, booting some flavor of DOS to copy files around or using DOS-based partition back-up software.

Imagine that you want to use Paragon Drive Backup, Powerquest's Drive Image, or Norton Ghost, to backup your hard disk partitions to that nice 120gb external USB 2.0 hard disk you just bought. You can't do it. Or if your wife/husband has managed to mess up her/his system so badly that it can't boot anymore, yet she/he wants you to have a copy of those nice digital pictures stored on a compactflash card plugged into the compactflash reader?. No way, Jose. Not from DOS, used to be the phrase.

----------------------------------------------------------------

This is the backup (in Japanese - but the download tab is easy to spot.)

http://panasonic.co.jp/pcc/products/drive/cdrrw/kxlrw40an/download.html

Thought I should post this, if anyone else had the same problem or needed a fix.

Edited by duffy98
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Thought I should post this, if anyone else had the same problem or needed a fix.

If anyone has the problem, he should get the already given floppy:

http://johnson.tmfc.net/dos/usbdrv.html

which contains the same panasonic drivers+a few others (DUSE,Iomega) updated when compared from those in the 2003 article, the ones in the given link on Panasonic site are v2.06, the ones in the given link are v2.15, which should be faster/better.

However, this is the reference to get v2.06 and v2.15 and use them:

http://www.computing.net/answers/dos/dos-mass-storage-driver-usbaspisys/15261.html

jaclaz

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Ok, I did forget to mention that I also downloaded the USB drivers mentioned in your earlier post. I installed both, so maybe it was those drivers that worked. I can't say with my limited knowledge on all this. I do still have a problem though ... it was my older Toshiba notebook that has no CD burner and I needed the flash drive to be reconized in DOS for the Ghost program. The USB slot in that computer is 1.1 ... and of course the flash drive does work. Now in my newer IBM Thinkpad I still do not see the Kingston flash. The USB slot in the IBM is 2.0 speed. I am thinking that these drivers are only for USB 1.1 and not 2.0 ... then that might explain why I still can't see the Kingston flash drive in the IBM. Is the case or can someone give me some ideas or an explanation on the flash drive not being detected (DOS)on the newer IBM? ...thanks

** thanks for the new version download ... will work with that.

Edited by duffy98
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Please note that your drives MUST be only either have FAT16 or FAT32 as it's filesystem!

If you use a pre-MS-DOS 7.10 MS-DOS (Windows 98, or 95B to be precise), you can only use drives that have FAT16 as it's filesystem.

No version of MS-DOS supports NTFS without any extra software.

Old versions of MS-DOS up to 7.10 only supports FAT16.

So if your drive uses a unsupported filesystem, you may need to format it correctly before use.

USBASPI.sys supports EHCI, UHCI and OHCI controllers. I didn't like the DUSE drivers too much because of the lack of compatibility with my hardware.

Also, if you need to write data to your USB device (Flash drive, or USB HDD), you should use IOMEGA's ASPIEHCI.sys, ASPIOHCI.sys or ASPIUHCI.sys (Depending if your adaptor which your device is plugged in to is a EHCI, OHCI or UHCI controller) as Panasonic's USBASPI.sys does not seem to have proper write support (Windows 9x setup crashes because of that).

In general:

EHCI - USB 2.0

OHCI - USB 1.1

UHCI - USB 1.1

OHCI and UHCI were once opposing standards(At the host side; The adapter and software design).

You can also try to use NOVAC's DI1000DD.sys instead of Adaptec's ASPIDISK.sys (Or even IOMEGA's GUEST.exe) as the ASPI layer for DOS after loading your USB ASPI manager (Which is ASPIxHCI.sys or USBASPI.sys).

BTW the latest version of USBASPI.sys from Panasonic is v2.27 (Released in 2008).

If you really can't get you device to be recognized, it may just be that it isn't compatible with the MS-DOS USB drivers.

I needed the flash drive to be reconized in DOS for the Ghost program

My Norton Ghost 2003 bootup disk uses ASPIEHCI.sys, followed by GUEST.exe. It uses PC-DOS 7.00 though (At least I think that it did). Those are the default drivers bundled with it originally. Have been using it for years without too much issues.

Edited by sp193
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sp193 ... thanks for explaining in more detail about the different USB drivers. I will Google what you wrote for more information. I forgot to mention ... the IBM Thinkpad came with Win XP installed and I took it off and put Win 98SE on. I think I remember reading somewhere that XP didn't really use DOS like 98SE or maybe there was a different version of DOS on an XP computer. I would like to get my flash drive to work in DOS on the IBM. It might come in handy one day. ... thanks again

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duffy,

DOS drivers make sens only if you want to use them in plain DOS mode, I mean after restarting in DOS mode. Because when windows is loaded, you better use windows apps.

To avoid interference between windows and DOS do not include driver loading command in autoexec.bat, but include them in dosstart.bat (which may have to be created).

Dosstart.bat executes only in DOS mode.

The advanatage of DOS mode is that you have access to your computer without starting windows and as such it's a unique repair tool. It allows for example to copy and replace files which can't be replaced or deleted when windows is running.

It also ensure that your machine is perfectly idle at the time you do the repair.

Windows XP and Vista don't have DOS mode, they only have a DOS console useable when windows is running. This handicap prevent the use of plain DOS mode for repairing the system as in w9x.

Vista has even a funny fake Restart in DOS mode option where it will open a nearly full screen DOS console on top of the windows'desktop. Which is perfectly useless.

From a user point of view, The XP/Vista DOS console is not very different from a DOS console in w98.

HTH

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Well, duffy98, if you have Ghost 2003 installed in your Win 98SE, you'll find the Iomega drivers in the folder

C:\WINDOWS\All Users\Application Data\Symantec\Ghost\Template\common\

and, BTW, the latest version of USBASPI.sys from Panasonic is not a .sys anymore, it is USBASPI.EXE v2.28 (released in 2007), which you can find at MDGx's site.

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Hi,

This may be slighty off topic.

I wonder if it is possible to create USB BOOTDISK under 98 environment only. :whistle:

To backup my netbook I had to preapare USB BOOTDISK under XP with HP format utility.

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Hi,

This may be slighty off topic.

I wonder if it is possible to create USB BOOTDISK under 98 environment only. :whistle:

To backup my netbook I had to preapare USB BOOTDISK under XP with HP format utility.

You mean a bootable USB stick?

Maybe (just maybe) there could be another way.

You can see your USB device under Win98 GUI, don't you?

Can you try running in Win98 this tool Swissknife:

http://www.compuapps.com/Download/swissknife/swissknife.htm

and check if it sees the USB device?

jaclaz

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Yes,I do

I meant "Clonezilla Live on USB flash drive" on bootable usb stick.

I recently discovered Clonezilla as quick and efficient image maker.

The description how to do it refers to XP I think

Beside I've just found Swissknife let me format USB stick as a floppy to FAT16.

Do you think the method described here http://clonezilla.org/clonezilla-live/liveusb.php could work?

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BTW, the latest version of USBASPI.sys from Panasonic is not a .sys anymore, it is USBASPI.EXE v2.28 (released in 2007), which you can find at MDGx's site.

I thought that that "v2.28" was an unofficial, hacked version (Not released by Panasonic, but was a v2.27 hacked by someone)?

Beside I've just found Swissknife let me format USB stick as a floppy to FAT16.

Won't work on older systems (circa pre-2001) as they don't allow booting to USB devices (Even if it pretends to be one). Plus, why do you want to emulate a USB FDD (Just curious)? You could just format a USB flash drive as a system disk...

I think I remember reading somewhere that XP didn't really use DOS like 98SE or maybe there was a different version of DOS on an XP computer.

Windows 98 is sitting on top of DOS, so you can say that Windows 98 IS DOS. But Windows XP is the operating system itself, and the DOS prompt you have in Windows XP is just emulated (Or virtual).

I would like to get my flash drive to work in DOS on the IBM. It might come in handy one day. ... thanks again

You mean in pure DOS right (Boot disk or a reboot into MS-DOS mode)?

If you intend to add the drivers into your CONFIG.SYS, don't add it into Windows 98's main CONFIG.sys (You WILL cause Windows 98 to go into "MS-DOS Compatibility mode" as the drivers will conflict with Windows 98's)

So you either use a DOS boot disk, or use dosstart.bat (Although I'm not too sure how to set up a "special" CONFIG.SYS for it that way)

BTW if you still have problems, mind posting your CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT where you loaded your drivers here? Plus can you state which drivers you've used?

Edited by sp193
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@supem

It would be better if you start a new thread, titled "How to create a bootable stick under Win98" or similar, so that we can discuss the specific issue and hopefully find a solution without mixing the issue with this generic "drivers" one.

jaclaz

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I wonder if it is possible to create USB BOOTDISK under 98 environment only. :whistle:

Yes. I described one way of doing it in this post (link).

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