cannie

Windows 7 and Windows 10 together; add Win7-PE and Linux Lite etc.

95 posts in this topic

Latest changes:

- Paragraph 5.7 has been improved to include new experiences.

Greetings.

cannie

Edited by cannie
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If I want to re-install windows on both win1 and win2 what do I have to do? I was using a slim version but have to many problems and want to go back to untouched images. I already have lots of stuff on the 3rd partition like images and docs and didn't want to take them all off.

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If I want to re-install windows on both win1 and win2 what do I have to do? I was using a slim version but have to many problems and want to go back to untouched images. I already have lots of stuff on the 3rd partition like images and docs and didn't want to take them all off.

Hi xpJohnson:

The easiest way is as follows:

1.- Save first any personal files or folders kept into partitions 2 and 3 into an external device.

2.- Boot partition 3 (Win2) and format fast partition 2 (Win1).

3.- Insert the install DVD, reboot from it and reinstall Windows 7 into partition 2 (Win1).

4.- Go on doing as explained at paragraph 4.

5.- When you restore afterwards your personal files and folders you'd rather not use for it none of both Windows drives, but logical units. If you don't have any you only need to reduce the size of partition 2 or 3 (the biggest one) and create one or several logical units into the free left HDD space. As usually said, "never put all eggs into the same basket".

Best wishes.

cannie

Edited by cannie
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Latest changes:

- Paragraph 6 has been improved.

Greetings.

Edited by cannie
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If I want to re-install windows on both win1 and win2 what do I have to do? I was using a slim version but have to many problems and want to go back to untouched images. I already have lots of stuff on the 3rd partition like images and docs and didn't want to take them all off.

Hi xpJohnson:

The easiest way is as follows:

1.- Save first any personal files or folders kept into partitions 2 and 3 into an external device.

2.- Boot partition 3 (Win2) and format fast partition 2 (Win1).

3.- Insert the install DVD, reboot from it and reinstall Windows 7 into partition 2 (Win1).

4.- Go on doing as explained at paragraph 4.

5.- When you restore afterwards your personal files and folders you'd rather not use for it none of both Windows drives, but logical units. If you don't have any you only need to reduce the size of partition 2 or 3 (the biggest one) and create one or several logical units into the free left HDD space. As usually said, "never put all eggs into the same basket".

Best wishes.

cannie

Thanks cannie,

I have a few more questions.

1. What is the purpose of the format fast while running win2?

2. In 4.6 you mention the convenience of running win2 as default, what is the advantage?

3. Is winrar better for the backup than 7zip?

I already have my files in the logical partition so I hope I am good there.

Edited by xpJohnson
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Hi XpJohnson:

I'll try to answer your questions:

1.- What is the purpose of the format fast while running win2?

Being your purpose to delete totally your OS and reinstall it again "from scratch" into Win1 and Win2, you may of course format Primary Partition 2 at the beginning of the install process when this option is offered to you by the install DVD, being the only snag that the drive name is lost. You must rename it afterwards as Win1.

2. -In 4.6 you mention the convenience of running win2 as default, what is the advantage?

In case of need you may rebuild Win2 by fast formatting its drive and copying into it again the original version. I like preserving the original, at least until I'm totally sure that the KNOPPIX obtained copy is working properly. Even when everything is usually OK, as it is said "all cautions are few in computing".

Apart of this both partitions work the same way and there's no problem on using Win1 as default, or even formatting Primary partition 2 and rebuilding Win1 from the .rar file.

3.- Is winrar better for the backup than 7zip?

Both are excellent and may be used indistinctively.

Greetings.

cannie

Edited by cannie
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Latest changes:

- Paragraphs 2.1 and 5.3 have been improved with new options.

Greetings.

Edited by cannie
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If I may, this is not "perfect":

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control]

"SystemBootDevice"=""

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control]

"SystemBootDevice"=""

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet002\Control]

"SystemBootDevice"=""

CurrentControlSet is normally a "hardlink" to either ControlSet001 or ControlSet002, so one of the lines is normally redundant.

These two lines will yeld the same result as the previous three ones:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control]

"SystemBootDevice"=""

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet002\Control]

"SystemBootDevice"=""

Point is that there may be more than two controlsets.

Ideally a check should be made on key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Select

and select the actual xyz of ControlSetxyz based on contents of values Current, Default and LastknownGood.

Also, it should be added that one needs to shutdown the Windows 7 immediately after having modified the mentioned key.

Some other considerations in no apparent order.....

Another point that IMHO you should make clearer is that this approach ONLY works for those "from scratch" installs of Windows 7 that create the "protected" 100 Mb partition (where BOOTMGR and the \boot\BCD are) since there are not particularly complex "added operations" for a more "traditional" install, you may want to add a point explaining these needed operations.

There is no actual "need" that the Windows 7 partition (BOTH "Win1" and "Win2") is a Primary (if the 100 Mb protected partition is used).

There is no actual *need* to image the whole 100 Mb partition, you could add instructions to create a "boot floppy":

http://www.multibooters.co.uk/floppy.html

(such an image, if stored on external device, such as USB stick or HD, can be mounted and booted by grub4dos allright)

or, if Primary partitions are used, copy anyway the BOOTMGR and \boot\BCD inside the "Win1" and "Win2" partitions, this way in case of problems you only need to make the "Win1" or "Win2" partition the Active one.

Finally (and IMHO) EasyBCD is not the "best" tool to simply add an entry to the BCD, there are simpler tools:

http://reboot.pro/7476/

on 32 bit, I find this:

http://reboot.pro/10003/

the straighter one, but also Bellavista (both 32 and 64 bit exist):

http://www.zezula.net/en/fstools/bellavista.html

and BOOTICE (cannot say if 64 bit working) could be a nice tool to use as it has many more useful features, very handy when doing this kind of mods, latest version is here:

http://www.ipauly.com/bootice/bootice_0.9.rar

Keep up the good work! :)

jaclaz

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Hi jaclaz:

As I did many times before when working with Windows 98 and XP, thank you very much for your excellent opinions and help.

I'll try to answer all points:

1.- About:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control]

"SystemBootDevice"=""

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet002\Control]

"SystemBootDevice"=""

As you see I delete the whole key and create it afterwards only including these two subkeys, thinking on a first install process.

2.-

Also, it should be added that one needs to shutdown the Windows 7 immediately after having modified the mentioned key.

And also that the copy of the modified Win1 must be obtained before running it again. Totally correct. I've modified the text to include it.

3.-

Another point that IMHO you should make clearer is that this approach ONLY works for those "from scratch" installs of Windows 7 that create the "protected" 100 Mb partition (where BOOTMGR and the \boot\BCD are) since there are not particularly complex "added operations" for a more "traditional" install, you may want to add a point explaining these needed operations

Everything was initially thought for a "from scratch" install process. I take notice of your observation in this point to reconsider it whenever needed.

4.-

There is no actual "need" that the Windows 7 partition (BOTH "Win1" and "Win2") is a Primary (if the 100 Mb protected partition is used).

As said everything was initially thought for a "from scratch" install process, and in this kind of install there's no problem on using Primary partitions 2 and 3. As you may read later into the text, the use of logical units is included whenever you need a third disk space, be it to have both working system (32 and 64 bits) into the same HDD or because you are keeping a preinstalled OS and using a fourth disk space to copy C drive.

5.-

There is no actual *need* to image the whole 100 Mb partition, you could add instructions to create a "boot floppy":

http://www.multiboot....uk/floppy.html

(such an image, if stored on external device, such as USB stick or HD, can be mounted and booted by grub4dos allright)

or, if Primary partitions are used, copy anyway the BOOTMGR and \boot\BCD inside the "Win1" and "Win2" partitions, this way in case of problems you only need to make the "Win1" or "Win2" partition the Active one.

This is also a good idea. Nevertheless I did not include it to simplify the text being 100 MB a very small space.

I desisted also from including the use of WAIK to create a WinPE pendrive for the same reason.

Nevertheless I included how to use a first small primary partition of an external HDD as a flash pendrive using a "LiveCD" iso file because it is extremely easy.

6.-

Finally (and IMHO) EasyBCD is not the "best" tool to simply add an entry to the BCD, there are simpler tools:

http://reboot.pro/7476/

on 32 bit, I find this:

http://reboot.pro/10003/

the straighter one, but also Bellavista (both 32 and 64 bit exist):

http://www.zezula.ne...bellavista.html

and BOOTICE (cannot say if 64 bit working) could be a nice tool to use as it has many more useful features, very handy when doing this kind of mods, latest version is here:

http://www.ipauly.co...bootice_0.9.rar

I included the program EasyBCD because it reflects my own experience. These other four are also excellent alternatives. Thank you.

As you already know, I never consider work finished if there's a possibility of improving it.

You are always welcome, jaclaz.

Sincerely

cannie

Edited by cannie
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Very good :)

Only item remaining:

As said everything was initially thought for a "from scratch" install process, and in this kind of install there's no problem on using Primary partitions 2 and 3. As you may read later into the text, the use of logical units is included whenever you need a third disk space, be it to have both working system (32 and 64 bits) into the same HDD or because you are keeping a preinstalled OS and using a fourth disk space to copy C drive.

Well, NO :no: .

Since the Windows 7 setup already ate up TWO partition entries, by adding the Win2 (and the Extended one) you fill to the brim the available space in the MBR.

This will prevent most users to do a whole range of "tricks"or anyway obstacle future tests/uses.

I will agree that in a "starting from scratch" situation you can do very little about Windows 7 default install "eating" two entries, but the WIN2 coul be well created as a Volume inside Extended.

This would leave an entry in the MBR "free" for future use.

Compare with (you remember ;)):

I mean, if someone else (like the MS or HP guys) is putting you in the corner the problem is getting out of it swiftly, but if you put yourself, with your own actions, in that same corner, maybe it can be prevented :whistle: .

jaclaz

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I will agree that in a "starting from scratch" situation you can do very little about Windows 7 default install "eating" two entries, but the WIN2 coul be well created as a Volume inside Extended.

You are totally right: even when I did things in a different way there's no need to use a primary partition for any OS copy at all. You may use that option when possible, but not forcedly in any way.

You know I like to explain everything punctually according to my own experience. When I first wrote the tutorial I had done everything as explained. I was installing totally from scratch, then I used Partition 1 and 2 for the original OS and Partition 3 for the Windows copy. Windows 7 allows you to create logical units directly afterwards (no need to create an Extended partition previously any more), so I directly created four logical units for personal files.

I chose then this option because I thought it was the best taking into account the circumstances. After checking everything I published it here to allow others taking profit of it.

But this can be done almost exclusively when you are installing from scratch.

When using preinstalled computers it is almost always impossible to create any primary partition at all. You must forcedly create logical units only for OS copies, and also to separe your personal files and folders from the OS to avoid "putting all eggs into the same basket", after sorting out the problems mentioned in the post which you transcribe.

That's what I've tried to explain at paragraph 5.2, which has been added much later after also personally living this experience. It has been modified now to include the link you mention. Thank you very much for remembering it here.

Greetings.

cannie

Edited by cannie
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Yes, there is a general issue with "tutorials" which is the "scope".

If the scope is very narrow and no options are given, the "path" is linear, but of course the result is also "fixed".

On the other hand when you add options or choices you create "forks" that make the path more complex, and as such less easy to follow.

I do understand how difficult it is to find a valid compromise between the need to keep it as simple as possible and that of giving the most options. :)

jaclaz

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Latest changes:

- A failure while doing some text improvements forced me to rebuild the whole text using a previously saved updated copy.

Sorry for it.

cannie

Edited by cannie
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Ok well I am really confused with section 4.3. You say to delete all .lnk files found with the file manager in knoppix, is that all the dir that are listed except the microsoft one? How do I know which ones are .lnk? Same for the users folder. You mention the ones with arrows but I dont see them with the file manager. I do see a few with freecommander when I am booted so do I make note of those? How do I copy the folders also? The file manager in knoppix is not graphical so I dont see any options for this.

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1- Ok well I am really confused with section 4.3. You say to delete all .lnk files found with the file manager in knoppix, is that all the dir that are listed except the microsoft one?

2- How do I know which ones are .lnk?

3- Same for the users folder. You mention the ones with arrows but I dont see them with the file manager. I do see a few with freecommander when I am booted so do I make note of those? How do I copy the folders also? The file manager in knoppix is not graphical so I dont see any options for this.

Hi xpJohnson:

I've numbered your questions for a better answer, as usual:

1.- The only folders into which files must be deleted are "Program Data" and "Users", and the only ones to be deleted are those ending with the .lnk extension just at the root of both folders (the ones that you see when you first click into each one of both seeming like subfolders but their names ending with .lnk).

Only the "Microsoft" subfolder from the ProgramData folder has a content (AFAIK), being all other "folders" which appear beside it simple access links. These access links are not needed at all, but some of them redirect you again and again to already copied folders. This generates an unendless copy process which ruins any copy work.

The same happens with the .lnk files found at the root of the "Users" folder. In this case (AFAIK) only "Administrator", "Public" and "(user named)" subfolders have a content, being all other apparent subfolders simple .lnk files, some of them generating also an unendless copy process which would ruin your copy work.

Mention to arrows was wrong (they appear while using other file managers, but not at KNOPPIX) and has been corrected.

2.- Well, this is easy. Look at their names and you'll see ".lnk" at the end of each one of them.

3.- If you click on the second icon found at left under the initial KNOPPIX screen you'll get a graphic file manager interface into which you are able to see all folders. You must look for the .lnk extension (no arrows at all) beside the subfolder names at the root of both mentioned folders.

HTH

Edited by cannie
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