Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 st3500320as sd35

[maridadi]

Hard drive not recognized in bios, nor in device manager. Hard drive definately not fried as there is movement when powered up. After reading through possible solutions in the forum, I decided to try it myself. I am using 5volts from power supply to power RS 232 shifter smd.. connecting ground and power from Shifter to power source (5v). RX and TX on shifter to oppsite TX RX on seagate drive. (drive is not powered, does it need to be?). I am using usb to serial cable for communications and a version of hyperterminal on win 7. At control Z only a -> sign and no prompts. Changed RX and TX on seagate and no prompts at all. Where Can I be going wrong?

[VideoRipper]

Let's do this one step at a time, shall we?

Do you get characters echood back when you only connect the TX to the RX of

the convertor, creating a "Loop-back"?

This means without anything attached to the "Level-shifter": only connect the TX-wire

to the RX-wire.

After that, open a connection in HyperTerminal with these settings:

• Speed: 38400 bits per second
  
• Databits: 8
  
• Parity: None
  
• Stop bits: 1
  
• Flow control: None

...and type a few characters on your keyboard; the exact same characters should

get displayed on your screen.

Do this step first and tell us the results, before continuing!

Greetz,

Peter.

[jaclaz]

The shifter SMD NEEDS to be powered at 3.3 V, as I already pointed out to you on the "main thread", here:

AND also (I hope clearly) stated on the read-me-first, point #11:

A known exception is this specific board:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=449

that switches output levels autosensing the voltage you power it with, thus you need for this a voltage around 3 V for this to work properly.

WHAT is the difficult part in it?

WHY starting a new thread?

jaclaz

Edited June 28, 2010 by jaclaz

[maridadi]

Greetz,

Thank you very much for your faste response.. i really appreciate it. Anyway, I did as you have asked:

Pc- Usb to serial connected to - a RS232 smd shifter (has 4 ports VC Gnd TX RX) As you have instructed I connected the RX to th TX (loop) on the shifter WITHOUT and power etc. Opened hyperterminal (3rd party on Win 7), usb to serial cable on port 4(configured as stated by you). Typed on Keyboard, however no echo only a blinking dash (-). Please advise..

B

Let's do this one step at a time, shall we?

Do you get characters echood back when you only connect the TX to the RX of

the convertor, creating a "Loop-back"?

This means without anything attached to the "Level-shifter": only connect the TX-wire

to the RX-wire.

After that, open a connection in HyperTerminal with these settings:

• Speed: 38400 bits per second
  
• Databits: 8
  
• Parity: None
  
• Stop bits: 1
  
• Flow control: None

...and type a few characters on your keyboard; the exact same characters should

get displayed on your screen.

Do this step first and tell us the results, before continuing!

Greetz,

Peter.

[VideoRipper]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere!

(has 4 ports VC Gnd TX RX)

As the wise Jaclaz already said:

The shifter SMD NEEDS to be powered at 3.3 V, as I already pointed out to you on the "main thread", here:

You'll have to apply power (+3.3V to +5V) to the VCC-port of the shifter and connect the GND

to the ground of that power supply; you can use the RED (= +5V) and BLACK (= GND) wires from

a free hard- or floppy-drive power-connector in your computer.

Now try the loopback-test again and you'll it will work now.

Greetz,

Peter.

[jaclaz]

VideoRipper might have been a bit too laconic.

I am pretty sure he meant without anything, but with the "shifter SMD" actually powered.

Or is it supposed to get 3.3 V (NOT 5V) from thin air?

Please note that theoretically the loopback test carried with:

• NO POWER -> will fail
  
• +5V -> will (hopefully) succeed BUT won't work with the hard disk
  
• +3.3V -> will (hopefully) succeed, AND will (hopefully) work with the hard disk
  

Anyway, I give up, I see it's of no use.

jaclaz

[VideoRipper]

We've had that 3.3V vs 5V discussion before and 5V DID work fine for me

(tested on more drives than my 500GB SD15 and I did play hours and hours

testing various, unrelated, commands and they all still work)

But... if you CAN get hold of 3.3V from your PC's power-supply, please

use that one instead of a 5V, since it's much safer.

Greetz,

Peter.

[maridadi]

Greetz,

Now getting the echo.. I apologize for the mess, as I am a novice and in desperation to revive my drive.. too much data of value.. Will await next instructions. Thanks alot.

B

Okay, now we're getting somewhere!

(has 4 ports VC Gnd TX RX)

As the wise Jaclaz already said:

The shifter SMD NEEDS to be powered at 3.3 V, as I already pointed out to you on the "main thread", here:

You'll have to apply power (+3.3V to +5V) to the VCC-port of the shifter and connect the GND

to the ground of that power supply; you can use the RED (= +5V) and BLACK (= GND) wires from

a free hard- or floppy-drive power-connector in your computer.

Now try the loopback-test again and you'll it will work now.

Greetz,

Peter.

[VideoRipper]

Now getting the echo..

In that case we're almost there!

First disconnect the power to the shifter!

Remove the PCB from the harddrive and connect:

• The TX of the shifter to the RX of the harddrive
  
• The RX of the shifter to the TX of the harddrive
  
• The GND of the shifter to the GND of the harddrive
  (Be extra carefull not letting the wires touch each other)

Next:

• Apply power to the shifter
  
• Open a connection with HyperTerminal (using the settings from my earlier post)
  
• Apply power to the PCB (remember: the harddrive itself is not attached now)
  
• Press the CONTROL and Z-button at the same time

Now tell me what you see (you can copy and paste the text you see in HyperTerminal

in your next reply between [ CODE ]-tags for clarity).

Greetz,

Peter.

[jaclaz]

We've had that 3.3V vs 5V discussion before and 5V DID work fine for me

(tested on more drives than my 500GB SD15 and I did play hours and hours

testing various, unrelated, commands and they all still work)

But, did you use the 5V with your home made (officially "super-deluxe" ) thingy:

or with this specific board "Shifter" from Sparkfun?:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=449

Maybe the$#!Za. (at least from the name he could be) is an undercover agent form SPECTRE attempting to upset world order by underpowering the stoopid shifter :

I done what Gradius's guide said (as I found Gradius's guide before Brad Garcia's guide) which is to plug the "red" wire from my power supply to my RS232-TTL adapter which was giving me 5V. After nearly giving up, I remembered Brad Garcia's guide and how he used the "orange" wire from the power supply as the Sata connectors on the power supply have an orange wire for 3.3V instead of the normal red wire for 5V.

So I just done exactly what he done, I cut off one of my power supply's Sata ports (I couldn't open mine nicely like he did as they're not the same), grabbed the 3.3V orange wire and ofcourse the black wire next to it for Ground and BANG, it just worked. Also no Ground wire from the RS232-TTL adapter to the hard drive is needed unless like the guides say, you're using a battery for your power source.

So for 2 weeks I totally wasted my time, as I was running my RS232-TTL adapter using the power supply's "red" 5V wire, when I should of used the power supply's "orange" 3.3V wire. If you've tried everything and are positive your connections are right but you just can't get the magical "F3 T>" prompt when pressing "CTRL-z", try 3.3V instead of 5V for your RS232-TTL adapter power source.

and, later:

Hi jaclaz. Well I have the SparkFun Shifter SMD which Gradius lists here ; http://www.sparkfun....products_id=449 and even though it does handle 5V, I simply could not get it working properly until I changed the power source from 5V down to 3.3V, why ? I don't know. Yes you're right about Gradius using a 3V battery himself however he does say connect it to the power supply's red wire if not using battery/batteries.

There has been a misunderstanding:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_i...products_id=449

Shifter SMD is powered from the target application and can run at any voltage! That's right - power the board at 5V and the unit will convert RS232 to 5V TTL. Power the board at 2.8V and the Shifter board will convert RS232 to 2.8V CMOS TTL.

Let's see if I can clear it.

There are two different "TLL" levels standard, a "5V" and a a "3.3V" (sometimes called "2.8V") one.

http://www.interfacebus.com/voltage_threshold.html

The hard disk "wants" or "likes" the 3.3V ones.

A converter can be:

• powered at 5V and output a 5V TTL level signals <-this WON'T work
  
• powered at 2.8V÷3.3 and output 3.3/2.8V TTL level signals <-this WILL work
  
• powered at 5V and ouput 3.3/2.8V TTL level signals, or more generally powered at ANY voltage and output a 3.3/2.8V TTL level signals<-this WILL work
  
• powered at 5V and ouput BOTH 5V and 3.3/2.8V TTL level signals, or more generally powered at ANY voltage and output BOTH 5V and 3.3/2.8V TTL level signals<-this WILL work if the HD is connected to the "right" TX/RX" of the converter
  

That particular converter you used/got "autoswitches" output TTL level based on the voltage it is powered with.

In other words it has an "advanced" feature that turned out as a problem in your case.

With all due respect for your "deluxe thingy", it is perfectly possible that it works at 5V, or even at 4/9*SQ(PI) , but I presume that the Sparkfun board being an industrial product, ALL single boards of this model behave the same and "as advertised".

Right now we have:

• Gradius2 (you know the peep you initially thanked as his guide saved your a**) using this adapter with a 3V battery
  
• Brad Garcia (you know, one of the other peeps that mostly contributed to save a**es around) using a plain adapter with a 3.3V supply (orange cable)
  
• the$#!Za. reporting specifically that this adapter did NOT work for him when powered at 5V BUT the same (this) worked when powered at 3.3V
  

Everyone remains of course perfectly free to draw his/her conclusions, and either act accordingly or supply any voltage into any TTL converter, actual results may vary , but I won't buy that this adapter will ever work if powered at 5V.

jaclaz

[jaclaz]

Just to avoid further misunderstanding , this:

• The GND of the shifter to the GND of the harddrive
  

Actually means:

• The GND of the shifter to BOTH the GND of the harddrive AND the black wire (ground) of the power source (be it a 3V battery or wires coming from a power supply, Orange +3,3V and Black 0V or ground)
  

Please review point #7 of the read-me-first

jaclaz

[VideoRipper]

Hmmm, you could be right here, I have to admit

I've used 5V (on a MAX232), but of course you could be right (as always) that

the Sparkfun-thingy just doesn't work with 5V, while it does with 3.3V

So STOP NOW, maridadi, since it probably won't work...

(Though I'm still confused he could do that loopback test with the 5V)

Try if you can find an ORANGE-lead coming from the power-suppy to a (free) SATA

power-connector and use that one instead (along with the black one).

Greetz,

Peter.

[jaclaz]

(Though I'm still confused he could do that loopback test with the 5V)

Why?

Loop-back #1 has a (5v) signal exiting a (5v) board and looping back, thus entering a board capable of understanding a (5v) signal.

OR:

Loop-back #2 has a (3.3v) signal exiting a (3.3V) board and looping back, thus entering a board capable of understanding a (3.3v)

Nothing strange.

In loop-back test:

• Board transmits @5v->loop-back connection->loop-back connection->Board understands @5v OK
  
• Board transmits @3.3v->loop-back connection->loop-back connection->Board understands @3.3V OK
  

In real life:

• Board transmit @5v->hard disk DOESN'T understand @5V->a suffusion of yellow -/- Hard disk trasmits @3.3V->Board DOESN'T understand @3.3v-> a suffusion of yellow NOT OK
  
• Board transmits @3.3v->hard disk understands @3.3V->hard disk transmits @3.3V->Board understands #3.3V OK
  

After all this is called TTL where the L is for "Logic" .

jaclaz

Edited June 28, 2010 by jaclaz

[VideoRipper]

[OFF-TOPIC mode]

This was my scenario with a MAX-232:

MAX232 powered with +5V:

• MAX232 transmits @5V -> harddisk DOES understand
  
• HDD transmits @3.3V (I have to believe you on that one) -> MAX232 DOES understand
  (because of the valid threshold-levels in a MAX232)

And like I said: I've tried it with various Seagate drives, varying from old P-ATA ones

to the latest S-ATA drives I have

Above you were refering to parts in that other thread, where people weren't able to get

it working with that Sparkfun-thingy on 5V, while my MAX-232 didn't complain about it,

nor did any of my harddrives (and they all still work flawlessly).

So my question is: what's the difference between the 5V output of my MAX-232 and that

from the Sparkfun-thing?

If a loopback with a Sparkfun didn't work with 5V I could understand, but it DID work...

So what's the difference (or am I missing the point here)?

Greetz,

Peter.

[/OFF-TOPIC mode]

[jaclaz]

Really I cannot understand what is the difficult part in this.

As said n times this Sparkfun thingy is a peculiar board with a peculiar behaviour.

Another board (including yours) may behave in a completely different way, but this one, from the posted reports, behaves EXACTLY as advertised.

And again with all due respect, you are missing some logic.

Let's see, we are now talking of your self built interface:

MAX232 powered with +5V:

MAX232 transmits @5V -> harddisk DOES understand

HDD transmits @3.3V (I have to believe you on that one) -> MAX232 DOES understand

(because of the valid threshold-levels in a MAX232)

You have in the above THREE statements:

1. MAX232 powered with +5V:
   
2. MAX232 transmits @5V
   
3. HDD transmits @3.3V
   

#1 is a "real" statement, as I preeume you know what you power your interface with

#2 is EITHER an assumption OR you measured the signal on the board TX wire

#3 is - by your own words - an assumption based on your trust in what I said

Now, logic tells that if I say two things, you cannot trust my word for only one of the two, you have to choose if EITHER believe BOTH or NONE, i.e. I'm EITHER reliable or I am NOT.

On the other hand the same logic says that if you actually measured the signal on the board TX wire (and thus #2 is NOT an assumption) you have the means (oscilloscope or signal analyzer) to measure the signal levels, if it is so , you can well measure the signal on the HD TX pin and thus need not to trust me, and need not to assume #3.

I have NOT the faintest idea at what level works what, I simply draw sums out of data.

From this, which remains probably the only thing I can understand :

http://www.interfacebus.com/voltage_threshold.html

A "proper" TTL (@3.3V) will understand a signal at anything over 3.3 V as "a suffusion of yellow".

It is possible that the whatever is on the stoopid seagate disk understands something more than this let's say 4V and your particular interface sends data at a lower level than the maximum 4.7 V that the (@5V) TTL/CMOS allows, say 3.99999 whilst the Sparkfun thingy, if powered at 5 V actually sends signals at 4.6999999 V.

Or it is possible that for any reason your interface actually produces 3.3V level signals and thus works allright.

Without actual measurement of signals of BOTH your circuit and of a sample of the Sparkfun thingy it's hard to say.

UPDATE:

After all maridadi is NOT using the RS232 SMD shifter, but rather a Prolific USB to TTL adapter:

jaclaz

Edited June 29, 2010 by jaclaz