[piikea]

dencorso, on 23 September 2010 - 12:10 AM, said:

If the counting starts from zero, it'd be:
0c-485519c
485520c-971039c
etc.

Unfortunately, I have no idea whats going on.

PL will list under cylinders:
0 - 485519
485520 - 1456558
1456559 - ?

so at this point IF I add 485519 to 1456559 it tells me "invalid ending cylinder"

IF I add 485520 same thing.
IF I add 481440 same thing.
IF I use the numbers on the PL pop up STILL "invalid ending cylinder".

So, I give up.

[jaclaz]

dencorso, on 22 September 2010 - 04:55 PM, said:

And looking into either shows the following surprise:
LBA0 is the boot sector that loads NTLDR and LBA6 is its backup;
LBA1 is the FSInfo sector and LBA7 is its backup;
LBA2 is blank, and so is LBA8!
LBA12 has the second part of the boot code, and has *NO* backup!!!
All other sectors in the first 32 are blank, as expected.

By zeroing out LBA12 the system stops booting.

You should post this under "News":
http://www.boot-land...opic=7739&st=92
http://www.boot-land...pic=7739&st=100
http://mirror.href.c...ex.html#ntfat32
http://mirror.href.c...ex.html#mswin41

piikea, on 23 September 2010 - 02:09 AM, said:

So, I give up.

Well, NO.
Giving up is NOT an option.

I know I am grumpy, but if I ask you to use 485520c, why don't you use it?

DO just the first partition and use for it 485520c (and not ANY other number).


Then, post TWO screenshots of the drive in RPM, one like the ones you already posted (CHS) and one showing the LBA (press F4).

Then, try creating the other three partitions ALL as primary (it is likely that the "shift" is caused by the Extended)

Then, post TWO screenshots of the drive in RPM, one like the ones you already posted (CHS) and one showing the LBA (press F4).

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 23 September 2010 - 06:55 AM

[dencorso]

@jaclaz: Well, I'm happy to see I'm just about half again a year late in finding out about LBA12 (and LBA14). Your reference to the RMPrepUSB is quite accurate and dates things from early 2009. Of course, I should be reading Boot-Land more closely than I've been doing... That thread eluded me completely then, and yesterday, when I seached, google pointed me to it, but Boot-Land wasn't loading at that precise moment. Now, the reference to the Starman isn't fair at all: that's exactly the first place I looked, before posting, and he never mentions either LBA12 or LBA14 at all (and the Starman *is* the Boot Bible!).
Or if he does mention them he does it in such a cryptical way that I've not found it, even now, on close rereading. All in all, it still begs the question: why use LBA12 or LBA14 without a backup, when LBA2 and LBA8 sit there unused? Just to allow double-booting with DOS by substituting just the 1st sector of the boot loader? Ain't that kind of perverse?
Thanks a lot, you do rock!

[jaclaz]

dencorso, on 23 September 2010 - 01:01 PM, said:

Now, the reference to the Starman isn't fair at all: that's exactly the first place I looked, before posting, and he never mentions either LBA12 or LBA14 at all (and the Starman *is* the Boot Bible!).

Yes , it is.

The info may not be seemingly there, but it is .

http://mirror.href.c...mbr/MSWIN41.htm

Quote

The Boot Record itself:

Microsoft's MSWIN4.1 Boot Record is actually 3 sectors long, and is found at Logical Sectors 0 through 2 for any volume

http://mirror.href.c...r/ntFAT32BR.htm

Quote

7CB5 E94803 JMP 8000 ; Jump to new code loaded from
; 13th sector of Boot Record.

And :
http://mirror.href.c...FAT32brcomp.htm

dencorso, on 23 September 2010 - 01:01 PM, said:

Ain't that kind of perverse?

Hey, that's MS , you remember.

Compare with the neat cmdcons trick :
http://www.boot-land...topic=2362&st=6

but in this case they probably did it to keep compatibility with a number of utilities that only "understood" first sector.

The ReactOS guys were probably "forced" to use yet another unused sector for the same compatibility reasons.


jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 23 September 2010 - 01:33 PM

[piikea]

jaclaz, on 23 September 2010 - 03:04 AM, said:

I know I am grumpy, but if I ask you to use 485520c, why don't you use it?

Well dencorso mentioned 0 - 485519 in post #80. Besides it shows up as that when you do use 485520. Perhaps I should be putting a "1" in the "starting cylinder" box? Also didn't add "c" to the numbers - maybe that made some difference.

jaclaz, on 23 September 2010 - 03:04 AM, said:

DO just the first partition and use for it 485520c (and not ANY other number).

I put 485520 & I'm pretty sure it displayed as 0 - 485519.

jaclaz, on 23 September 2010 - 03:04 AM, said:

Then, post TWO screenshots of the drive in RPM, one like the ones you already posted (CHS) & one showing the LBA (press F4).

jaclaz, on 23 September 2010 - 03:04 AM, said:

Then, try creating the other three partitions ALL as primary (it is likely that the "shift" is caused by the Extended)

Used 485520 for the 1st 3 partitions then had to use 1938020 as ending cylinder on the last (4th) partition becuase all other numbers gave me "invalid ending cylinder".

[piikea]

Here are the 2nd two screens since trying to post them in previous post gave me:
Error This upload failed

Because this whole endeavor is trying to drive me insane.

jaclaz, on 23 September 2010 - 03:04 AM, said:

Then, post TWO screenshots of the drive in RPM, one like the ones you already posted (CHS) and one showing the LBA (press F4).

Actually it wont let me upload them here either. Same .jpg's, created w. same program 2 minutes after the other ones, same size. Idk???????????/

[dencorso]

There's a limit to how many attachments you have in the forum. Enter your profile, then settings, then manage your attachments and see it. Then delete some older attachments to make room for the new ones. BTW, for maximum information create the screenshots with the partition of interest highlighted, not the MBR, please.
I'm almost proposing that we do the converse: partition with RPM 2.43, and Partition Logic shall not complain.
And... please, arm yourself with a lot of patience... we're almost there, by now, all main hurdles are already overcome.

[piikea]

dencorso, on 23 September 2010 - 06:35 PM, said:

There's a limit to how many attachments you have in the forum. Enter your profile, then settings, then manage your attachments and see it. Then delete some older attachments to make room for the new ones. BTW, for maximum information create the screenshots with the partition of interest highlighted, not the MBR, please.
I'm almost proposing that we do the converse: partition with RPM 2.43, and Partition Logic shall not complain.
And... please, arm yourself with a lot of patience... we're almost there, by now, all main hurdles are already overcome.

I thought there may be a limit but didnt think I could've possibly hit it already. Anyway, here are the 2nd two screens (in this case I'm not sure which partition is the main one of interest) -




I'm assuming all the red is still NOT good!

BTW - I appreciate all the efforts, this stuff just makes me a mental case after awhile.

[dencorso]

OK. Let's do something with RPM 2.43:
1) Take a deep breathe, relax, and
2) Highlight partition 2, go to the ending head select it and type-in 255, in place of the current 254, then accept, save select format latter, and see whether it becomes white.
3) Whatever the result, post again the pair of screenshots, with partiton 2 highlited.

[piikea]

dencorso, on 23 September 2010 - 11:56 PM, said:

OK. Let's do something with RPM 2.43:
1) Take a deep breathe, relax, and
2) Highlight partition 2, go to the ending head select it and type-in 255, in place of the current 254, then accept, save select format latter, and see whether it becomes white.
3) Whatever the result, post again the pair of screenshots, with partiton 2 highlited.

I need ULTRA patience because this drive is cursed (or I am). I changed it to 255, it didnt ask "accept" but I hit F2 to save which I'm pretty sure it did & the line never turned white - before OR after save. It half froze computer so had to close out of it to do anything. BUT, when I reboot & run RPM it takes up the whole screen & therefore I can't get a screen. There is no "minimize" that I can locate. So I delete RPM & re-download it - same thing. So screenshots of RPM are out.

It does still give the "MBR/ENBR....." error message.

PLUS -
It was on DRive 1 & trying to figure out how to minimize it, hit something & it said:
"MBR written reboot without saving"
It wouldn't let me undo, or save or not save so all I could do was exit & re-start. Luckily it did but had a black screen & words "rebooting HD1"....... then on to my regular desktop & boot up. So, I almost screwed up the actual system.

I've also started getting Windows bluescreen errors when throught MY Computer I click to "see" a different drive (or partition). Then have to reboot & usually it works ok....(until it does again eventually). Idk where this came from.

My worry is this ill-fated ext drive causing more problems than its worth.

This post has been edited by piikea: 24 September 2010 - 01:08 AM

[dencorso]

OK. To return to windowed mode you must hit <Alt> + <Enter>... But don't do that from inside RPM... unless you are sure you're in HDD3.

What happened to your HDD1 is that you changed the boot code in the MBR for RPM's boot loader.
It's easy to correct, but I think you should get a good night's sleep, before proceeding. Let's call it a day, for now.

[jaclaz]

dencorso, on 23 September 2010 - 11:56 PM, said:

2) Highlight partition 2, go to the ending head select it and type-in 255, in place of the current 254, then accept, save select format latter, and see whether it becomes white.

For the record (and FYI), on a nx255x63 geometry:

• Last addressable Cylinder is n-1
  
• Last addressable head is 254
  
• Last addressable sector is 63

Cylinders are numbered strating from 0.
Heads are numbered starting from 0.
Sectors are numbered starting from 1.

The general idea was:

• do "logical" tests
  
• report
  
• loop to #1 until a suitable solution is found

NOT "change a value with a random (BTW wrong) one and see what happens.

The only thing we need now is a method, and being calm.

There may be a few tens reasons why RPM makes the partition "red", incuding rightful and wrongful ones.

This:

piikea, on 23 September 2010 - 02:45 PM, said:

Well dencorso mentioned 0 - 485519 in post #80. Besides it shows up as that when you do use 485520. Perhaps I should be putting a "1" in the "starting cylinder" box? Also didn't add "c" to the numbers - maybe that made some difference.
...

I put 485520 & I'm pretty sure it displayed as 0 - 485519.

is perfectly normal.

CHS sectors are numbered starting from 1.
LBA sectors are numbered from 0 (actually the meaning of a LBA values is "Sectors before" or "offset of the sector")

Now the issue at hand is the following:
first partition (notwithstanding the fact that RPM sees it in RED) seems OK:

• it starts at a correct CHS address (0/1/1)
  
• it ends at a correct CHS address (30,463/254/63)
  
• it's CHS values are correspondent to LBA ones:
  (0+1)x(1+1)x63=126-63=63
  (30,463+1)x(254+1)x63=489,404,160-63=489,404,097

following partitions don't.

We have now an added info.
The 1938020 end cylinder that was "needed".

However let's try again.
The original data you should have input was:

jaclaz, on 22 September 2010 - 04:46 AM, said:

So, now you have to use the "c" instead of the "m" and:

• Primary FAT32 LBA 485520c
  
• Logical FAT32 LBA 485520c
  
• Logical FAT32 LBA 481440c
  
• Logical FAT32 LBA 481440c

Then, I asked you to input the SAME values, only using ALL primaries.

What seemingly you did input is:

• Primary FAT32 LBA 485520c
  
• Logical FAT32 LBA 485521c
  
• Logical FAT32 LBA 485521c

or at least this is what partition logic wrote to the partition table.

Please find attached a small Excel spreadsheet.
It consists of TWO sheets "Manual" and "Automatic".
BOTH sheets are protected.
In sheet "Manual" you can ONLY change:

• cells I10÷I13 i.e. the End Cylinder in mx255x63 (RPM)
  
• cells I24÷I27 i.e. the End Cylinder in nx16x63 (Partition Logic)

The two sets of partition entries are independent, to allow playing a bit with values.

In sheet "Automatic" you can ONLY change:

• cells U24÷U27 i.e. the "c" value you can input in Partition Logic

this automatically calculates the data how it should be written by Partition Logic and how it should be seen in RPM.

If ANY of the cells in column J (end head) becomes RED it means that the partition dos not end on cylinder boundary. (NOT "kosher").

Now, try some values in U24÷U27, remember that ANY value should be a multiple of 4080!
Start with small values, creating 4 Primary partitions like:

• 4080
  
• 4080
  
• 4080
  
• 4080

Input these values in partition logic, then check how RPM reads them.

Report.

jaclaz

Attached File(s)

•  CURRENT_PL_RPM.zip (7.38K)
  Number of downloads: 10

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 24 September 2010 - 05:05 AM

[piikea]

jaclaz, on 24 September 2010 - 05:04 AM, said:

BOTH sheets are protected.

I can't open w/o password.

Unsure what I am to do with the "Manual" one.

PL should be so easy just to be able to input what size each partition should be by putting in:
1. 4080
2. 4080
3. 4080
4. 4080
Instead of having to put 0 - 4080, then have to add 4080 to 4080 to get the next ending point (8160) & then 8060 + 4080 = "x" # & so on (especially since the ending points I'm supposed to arrive at NEVER are accepted by it).

So far I've tried using the numbers provided & the only reason I wouldn't have would be if PL said: "invalid ending cylinder" so I would try the next most "logical" alternative(s).

Currently the partitions are:
233GB
233GB
233Gb
231GB

This post has been edited by piikea: 24 September 2010 - 10:15 PM

[jaclaz]

piikea, on 24 September 2010 - 06:41 PM, said:

I can't open w/o password.

No.
There is no opening password, the protection is only about locked cells.

piikea, on 24 September 2010 - 06:41 PM, said:

Unsure what I am to do with the "Manual" one.

You have to make up your mind, you can EITHER:

• open the spreadsheet
  OR:
  
• NOT open it

if the latter you can't do ANYTHING with the "Manual" sheet in it (nor with the "Automatic" one, for that matters since you cannot open the spreadsheet at all).

If you can open it, please read again my previous post, I guess I explained the idea:

• the "manual" is ONLY to "play"
  
• the "automatic" is to simulate what happens with varying partition sizes (number of Cylinders in a nx16x63 geometry) as seen BOTH by Partition Logic and RPM.

You have only a very limited number of cells in which you can change the values, it shouldn't be difficult to get the hang of it.

Simplified version:

• FORGET about the "Manual" sheet
  
• Open the "Automatic one"
  
• Input in cells U24÷U27 the value 4080.
  
• The "main part" of the sheet should represent the partitioning screen as "seen" in Partition Logic (bottom, with nx16x63 geometry) and in RPM (top, with mx255x63)

piikea, on 24 September 2010 - 06:41 PM, said:

PL should be so easy just to be able to input what size each partition should be by putting in:
1. 4080
2. 4080
3. 4080
4. 4080
Instead of having to put 0 - 4080, then have to add 4080 to 4080 to get the next ending point (8160) & then 8060 + 4080 = "x" # & so on (especially since the ending points I'm supposed to arrive at NEVER are accepted by it).

Please READ the text in Partition Logic:

Quote

Enter Ending Cylinder (0-x)
or size in megabytes with 'm' (1m-zm)
or size in cylinders with 'c' (1c-yc)

(where y=x+1)

Can you please put in the:
4080c,4080c,4080c,4080c
and post the result in RPM? (both CHS and LBA)


Then, try :
4079,8159,12239,16319
and post the result in RPM? (both CHS and LBA)

jaclaz

[piikea]

piikea, on 24 September 2010 - 06:41 PM, said:

I can't open w/o password.

Quote

No.
There is no opening password, the protection is only about locked cells.

It is the protection that must be why it won't allow me to open it.

[dencorso]

Something here is fishy...
I can open and use jaclaz's worksheet all right, using my (razor-edge tech) excel 97 sr2...
Try redownloading it.

[piikea]

I may have omitted making 1 partition "active". Posting results for 4080c sequence since if I input #'s in wrong then it wouldn't help to input the 2nd sequence of #'s wrong too.



Now here I'm not sure the correct way to input the numbers. I've tried putting 0c-4080c in 1st line, then 4080c-8160c in the 2nd & it "worked" or "took" anyway. And previously I've put 0c in 1st line then the end point, for example 4080c in the 2nd line. That way it "took" too but either or neither may be correct.



For 2nd partition it gets more unclear. Put 4080c in 1st line & 8160c (4080c + 4080c)in 2nd line?? How else to "put in the: 4080,4080,4080,4080"? I've tried 10 different ways & still not sure which is correct. Apparently this should be "obvious" but I am far less clear on it than I was the 1st time I attempted this.

Anyway, this is whats shown in PL after what I did today:


Getting screens IN PL is NOT an easy feat but I found a way in order to try & clarify WHAT I AM SEEING when inputting the numbers.

And RPM 2.43 (CHS & LBA) -

This post has been edited by piikea: 25 September 2010 - 03:41 PM

[piikea]

New screens using exact same procedure but this time they upload????

This post has been edited by piikea: 25 September 2010 - 04:56 PM

[piikea]

dencorso, on 25 September 2010 - 03:06 PM, said:

Something here is fishy...
I can open and use jaclaz's worksheet all right, using my (razor-edge tech) excel 97 sr2...
Try redownloading it.

Re-downloaded but same "error" message & unable to open it. Idk either. I'm not superstitious but I still think the ext HDD is cursed. It was a 30 step process just to create my previous post! Deleted photos from quota, resizing screens (that were same size as all the others I've posted), inserted in right places - they then when displayed most showed at bottom of post(??), getting blue screen Windows errors w/ other USB devices AND often when trying to see contents of various drives, etc.

[dencorso]

Well...
1) It's a no go. Those RPM screenshots are so small that they're just unreadable. We need them bigger. Best soluton: open a free photobucket account and post links to the pics uploaded there. Just take care to set the album open to everybody for viewing.
2) Did you redetect all your other USB devices, as I said you'd have to? I suppose you didn't, and hence the BSODs.