[Multibooter]

For the past years I have been defragging my HDDs not under Win98, but under WinXP. I uninstalled Diskeeper Pro v9 from Win98SE about 4 years ago, and since then I have no defragging software installed under Win98, except for MS Disk Defragmenter, which I don't use.

I have on my dual-core desktop 2 instances of WinXP, one running on a FAT32 partition, the other running on an NTFS partition. The boot partition is FAT16. A separate FAT32 swap partition contains the fixed-size 3888MB swap files of Win98 and of WinXP(Fat32); the swap file of WinXP(NTFS) is on its NTFS partition.

I frequently create under Win98, with Norton Ghost v11.0.2 (standalone) and the switches -z9 -cns -fatlimit -szee in the desktop shortcut, backups of the WinXP(FAT32) partition. Before creating the .gho file of the WinXP(FAT32) partition, I boot into WinXP(NTFS) and defragment from there the WinXP(FAT32) partition with PerfectDisk v8.0.67, then I boot back into Win98 to create the .gho partition image.

I would like to defragment the WinXP(FAT32) partition under Win98. Which Win98-compatible defragging software can be recommended for this purpose? The defragging software should work fine under plain vanilla Win98SE with:
- big PATA drives (up to 750GB)
- big SATA drives (up to 2TB)
- primary and logical FAT32 partitions up to 240GB (on external drives and on internal HDDs with patches for the 137GB problem)
- HDDs connected via USB 2.0/eSATA I, maybe also via Firewire
- other partition types on the HDD (NTFS, Linux) (i.e. the defragmentation software should not damage them)
- Unicode/WinXP-compatible file and directory names
- files up to 4 GB in size
- a dual-core CPU under Win98

There is a very interesting thread at http://www.msfn.org/...ation-software/ but I am interested specifically in Win98 software which works with modern hardware. I am hesitant about experimenting with various old defragging programs on my HDDs, maybe someone here has already done it already. I only need basic defragmentation and free space optimization on demand, no optimization of file and directory locations, no automatic runs in the background.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 03 November 2010 - 01:10 AM

[jaclaz]

Multibooter, on 03 November 2010 - 01:06 AM, said:

I only need basic defragmentation and free space optimization on demand, no optimization of file and directory locations, no automatic runs in the background.

NOT an answer.

But something worth a look (promising):
http://sourceforge.n...ts/filesystemd/

And some semi-random hints:
The ME defrag is said to be much better than Win98 one.

PowerDefrag may help in managing "standard" defrag:
http://www.mdgx.com/98-3.htm

Among Commercial tools, AFAICR, the Vopt is the only one that is still updated ansd works on 9x:
http://www.vopt.com/index.html
http://www.vopt.com/nudownload.htm

jaclaz

[rainyd]

IMO, your expectations are a bit too high (especially the last point).
Probably the only chance for modern defragmentation tool is KernelEx - personally, I would like to try freeware Defraggler (I've tested it under Windows XP systems).

This post has been edited by rainyd: 03 November 2010 - 04:01 PM

[dencorso]

Defragmentation under XP is much more flexible. And way more stable. You already have tools you trust, for XP. Why not defrag the XP (NTFS) while booted from XP (FAT-32) and vice-versa? And every other possible partition from either?

[Prozactive]

I second dencorso. The simplest solution is to use the native WinXP disk defragmenter for all your partitions/drives. That's often what I do with my dual-boot systems. Is there any particular reason you need to do it from Win98?

[jaclaz]

With all due respect for the opinions of the members who posted , this seems not a poll like:

Quote

Is it better to defragment a disk under Windows 98 or under XP?

or

Quote

What is the best defragmenting software or Operating System?

Multibooter, for reasons that should not be up to debate, wants to defragment under Windows 98, his question seems like clear enough to me.

...and I thought mine was not an answer ....

I guess Multibooter is old and experienced enough a member to know what he is asking for and he most probably has a reason to ask this (and not another question)....

jaclaz

[Prozactive]

Good points, jaclaz. It just seemed like using the native WinXP tools was the simplest and easiest solution.

[Multibooter]

jaclaz, on 03 November 2010 - 06:34 AM, said:

Among Commercial tools, AFAICR, the Vopt is the only one that is still updated ansd works on 9x: http://www.vopt.com/index.html http://www.vopt.com/nudownload.htm

Thanks jaclaz. I have test-installed VoptXP v7.22 on my 10-year-old Inspiron 7500 laptop (700MHz, 512 MB RAM) under Win98SE and made some preliminary tests. Here the results under Win98SE:
- VoptXP v7.22 defragged fine a 192GB partition on an external 1 TB pre-brick Seagate SATA HDD ( http://www.msfn.org/...610#entry922610 )
- VoptXP v7.22 defragged fine when this pre-brick Seagate SATA HDD was in a Kingwin EZ-Dock EZD-2535 docking station connected via eSATA PCCard (Vantec eSATA PCCard UGT-ST350CB [Silicon Image SiI 3512 SATALink Controller]) and when connected via USB 2.0/nusb
- VoptXP v7.22 processed Ok a 3.99GB file (4.294.967.295 bytes) under Win98SE with the "Unofficial 2-4 GB Files Errors KERNEL32.DLL Fix"
- VoptXP v7.22 seems to handle errors Ok: the 192GB partition on the pre-brick Seagate SATA HDD had a free disk space error [Norton Disk Doctor: "The boot area on this drive contains invalid information about the drive's free space. Windows may report the drive's free space incorrectly or slowly."], which seems to be ignored under WinXP, but not under Win98. After defragging for about 10 minutes, Vopt displayed an error message "VoptXP. An error has occurred while attempting to access this drive.
Err=Error writing drive -> 268
Source=V.DP.RH.PD.PAD.MFR.SF2.SSMF"
Then ScanDisk came up out of the blue with the err msg: "ScanDisk cannot check this drive because the disk is not properly formatted, or a program such as a disk utility has locked it. Format the disk or wait for the utility to finish, and then restart ScanDisk."
After shutting down and powering the pre-brick Seagate HDD off-on, I ran NDD under Win98 and fixed the free disk space error. NDD found a lost cluster, probably a leftover from the interrupted defragging.
I then ran under Win98SE Partition Table Doctor v3.5 and PartitionMagic v8.01.1312, everything was Ok. I then compared the files on the partition where VoptXP was working on against a backup on another HDD, everything Ok. VoptXP seems to handle well error situations/crashes, no data was lost.

BUT: Immediately after VoptXP started to defrag, Win98 became nearly totally unresponsive [a Windows Explorer window open up about 3 minutes after clicking on it to bring it to the foreground]. The clock in the system tray didn't advance anymore, the CPUIdle usage icon in the system tray stayed frozen, and SysInternal's Process Explorer (set to real time) did not responded either. After VoptXP had finished defragging, everything worked fine again and the clock showed again the correct time. This single-tasking behaviour, however, makes VoptXP unattractive to use under Win98.I didn't find any switches or settings to fix Vopt's temporary locking up of Win98; there are no settings for background defragging. Any suggestions how to fix this?

BTW, VoptXP v7.22 has not been updated recently. The latest modification date of files in the install-to is 21-Nov-2003, even if the modification date of the installer file VXP_v722.exe on their website is 17-Dec-2006 (=probably date of their last upload to their server). VoptXP v7.22 is still offered for sale, but was last updated 7 years ago.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 04 November 2010 - 01:45 PM

[jaclaz]

Multibooter, on 04 November 2010 - 01:33 PM, said:

BTW, VoptXP v7.22 has not been updated recently. The latest modification date of files in the install-to is 21-Nov-2003, even if the modification date of the installer file VXP_v722.exe on their website is 17-Dec-2006 (=probably date of their last upload to their server). VoptXP v7.22 is still offered for sale, but was last updated 7 years ago.

Well, AFAIK not even Windows 98 has been updated recently....

Maybe you can try using a launcher with process priority features, like this one (examples):
Myrun
http://ex-boroda.chat.ru/english.html
ATM
http://www.simtel.ne...t/view/id/12339

Cannot say if it can work....

jaclaz

[duffy98]

Well, I'm going to throw my 2 cents into all this, and that's all it's worth! I tried VoptXP v7.22 and it seemed OK for Windows 98SE. I use the ME Defrag on my 98SE systems which works very fast as jaclaz mentioned earlier about the ME Defrag being better for 98SE. I also use an old program called EndItAll to shut down most all running programs while Scandisk and Defrag run on my notebook. This is just out of left field ... not having much much info on VoptXP v7.22 since it is so old ... perhaps this is something it does also ... shut some running programs down so it can defrag the hard drive. You did say everything seemed OK after VoptXP has finished. All was well. Like I said ... just my 2 cents. I will continue to work with it some more. I did try something ... VoptXP seemed to be going slow but doing it's job so I stopped it ... went to the Win 98SE (ME) Defrag and it went fast through it's work. Went back to VoptXP and started it, 2 seconds it was done, nothing to defrag ... so it was apparently satisfied that the hard drive was already completely defragged by the Windows ME Defrag. Not much to go on but I have always thought the ME Defrag in Windows 98SE was acceptable, definitely much faster. However, I will try other defrag systems if they are mentioned in this thread.

...

This post has been edited by duffy98: 05 November 2010 - 08:58 AM

[Multibooter]

jaclaz, on 05 November 2010 - 03:44 AM, said:

Maybe you can try using a launcher with process priority features, like this one (examples): Myrun http://ex-boroda.chat.ru/english.html
ATM http://www.simtel.ne...t/view/id/12339
Cannot say if it can work....

Thanks jaclaz. I have installed MyRun v1.10, set the Process Priority of VoptXP v7.22 to "Idle" - and it seems to work on the first glance.
Win98 is not locked up anymore while Vopt is running. I am making this posting while VoptXP is defragging under Win98SE another 192GB FAT32 partition on that 1 TB pre-brick Seagate SATA HDD in an EZ-Dock docking station connected via USB 2.0 to my old laptop.

VoptXP is currently making its second major test: defragging the library of my biggest application, the excellent German language Digitale Bibliothek http://www.digitale-bibliothek.de/ This library is in a folder with 426,000 files in 1,200 folders, using 119 GB, on the 192GB partition.

VoptXP v7.22 was apparently never intended to run in a low priority mode, its program window does not have a minimize button "_" in the top right of its program window while defragging. When defragging has finished, the minimize button "_" appears again in the VoptXP program window.

Addendum: VoptXP v7.22 has just locked up again Win98 when defragging another 192GB partition on the 1TB pre-brick Seagate SATA HDD, this time connected via eSATA. I am investigating. This posting was made from another computer, the computer still defragging is currently locked up/busy, with an hour glass displayed.

Addendum: When VoptXP apparently locked up Win98, it was moving a 3.99GB file (4.294.964.413 bytes). I clicked on the Stop icon, and after about 5 mins the operation was cancelled. After rebooting into Win89, NDD, PTD and PartitionMagic did not indicate any errors, so clicking on the Stop button of VoptXP seems to have caused no problems.

Addendum: VoptXP also locks up Win98 when moving a 700MB file, so it's not caused by a file > 2GB.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 05 November 2010 - 04:41 PM

[loblo]

Multibooter, on 05 November 2010 - 01:39 PM, said:

This library is in a folder with 426,000 files in 1,200 folders, using 119 GB, on the 192GB partition.

This must have cost you a little fortune to buy all that.

[supem]

Hi,
I have to mention ScanDefrag here. It runs with my 98SE but it can defrag 2000, XP and newer systems too.
I recommend using it with restrictive mode on. At least I do that in my 98SE.

regards,

[Multibooter]

loblo, on 05 November 2010 - 03:38 PM, said:

Multibooter, on 05 November 2010 - 01:39 PM, said:

This library is in a folder with 426,000 files in 1,200 folders, using 119 GB, on the 192GB partition.

This must have cost you a little fortune to buy all that.

OT: A little treasure, 281 volumes (=CDs). The values lies not in the individual volumes, but in the searchable whole. One can search a huge mass of texts written in German or translated into German.

The 7.9 GB DVD "10 Jahre Digitale Bibliothek Jubiläumsband" (2005), which contains 30 volumes (=CDs), is a good starter, I got it as a complimentary gift from the company, many volumes were available over the years on CDs inside of German computer magazines, others from ebay. This is an extraordinary collection, like a small google books of German-language books, but on one's own HDD and the text is copy-and-pastable, and some volumes include additionally the rare original edition of the books as facsimile images. It's maybe 300 meters of bookshelf space, inside the HDD and easily searchable.

Unfortunately most CDs and DVDs of the library are now out of print ("vergriffen"): http://www.digitale-...i/1/&lm=/sel/2/
All volumes listed there, except under the heading zeno.org, run with the DigiBib v4.01.350 software (=search, display and print engine) under Win98.

Many volumes are still available at ebay:
http://shop.ebay.de/i.html?_nkw="Digitale+Bibliothek"&_sacat=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_odkw="10+Jahre+Digitale+Bibliothek"&_osacat=0&_trksid

For non-German speakers: Volume DB061 contains the text plus the facsimile of the First Folio Edition/1968 facsimile edition by Hinman of the complete works of Shakespeare. The Digitale Bibliothek also includes a huge collection of images of publicly available art.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 05 November 2010 - 08:32 PM

[Multibooter]

supem, on 05 November 2010 - 04:57 PM, said:

I have to mention ScanDefrag here.

Multibooter, on 03 November 2010 - 01:06 AM, said:

I only need basic defragmentation and free space optimization on demand, no optimization of file and directory locations, no automatic runs in the background.

Thanks supem, but ScanDefrag http://www.blueorbsoft.com/scandefrag/ looks like a scheduler without its own defragging software. Although I am interested at the moment in on-demand = not-scheduled defragmentation, I may look at ScanDefrag later on, once I found the right defragmentation software under Win9x.

ScanDefrag looks interesting because it apparently works with Norton SpeedDisk. I rejected SpeedDisk years ago, I don't remember why. Since a related software, Norton Disk Doctor, has worked fine for me under Win98, I will try SpeedDisk again if VoptXP can't be made to behave like a multi-tasking application.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 05 November 2010 - 09:09 PM

[Multibooter]

VoptXP v7.22 under Win98 appears to defragment substantially faster than PerfectDisk 8 under WinXP. This makes VoptXP very interesting, especially since defragging is quite time-consuming.

I defragged the WinXP-FAT32 partition on my old laptop with VoptXP under Win98, WinXP worked fine afterwords.

When I defragged with VoptXP a 28GB partition on the internal HDD of the old laptop, Win98 stayed much more responsive than when I defragged an external HDD connected via USB 2.0/eSATA. SysInternal's Process Explorer did respond (sometimes quite sluggishly) while defragging the internal HDD, with the process priority set to Idle by MyRun.

Before the defragmentation the 28GB partition on the internal HDD was heavily fragmented, about 1200 fragments and 2500 gaps, 2GB free space, 42.000 files. After the defragmentation by VoptXP 13 fragments were left over and the free space was not optimized

VoptXP has 2 interesting settings: -> Tools -> Tuneup -> File name cache and -> Conservative swap file use

Here my notes on setting the process priority of VoptXP to Idle with MyRun v1.1:
. start MyRun Editor
-> enter "VoptXP" into the text field on the top left
-> New button
-> click on the "..." button on left
-> in window Open: browse to H:\Vopt\VoptXP.exe
the fields File Name and Default directory are filled automatically
-> click on Test button to check whether VoptXP comes up, then exit VoptXP
-> back in window MyRun Editor 1.10:
-> set the Process priority (e.g. to Idle)
-> select Invisible launching
-> File -> Save as -> browse to H:\Vopt\
-> in field File Name: -> enter e.g. "Vopt.mrn" [.mrn= MyRun file type]
-> Save
-> exit MyRun Editor: -> File -> Exit
manually create a desktop shortcut H:\Vopt\Vopt.mrn
in Vopt.mrn Properties: -> Change Icon
-> browse to H:\Vopt\VoptXP.exe -> Open -> Ok -> Apply -> Close

Any more ideas on how to keep VoptXP from locking up Win98?

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 05 November 2010 - 09:51 PM

[jaclaz]

Multibooter, on 05 November 2010 - 06:19 PM, said:

For non-German speakers: Volume DB061 contains the text plus the facsimile of the First Folio Edition/1968 facsimile edition by Hinman of the complete works of Shakespeare. The Digitale Bibliothek also includes a huge collection of images of publicly available art.

With all due respect , the idea of reading possibly the greatest English writer of all times translated into German doesn't particularly interests me.

Back to topic, it 's such a pleasure to deal with you on any topic , you do actual testing, you do actual reports, you do actually contribute to the community.

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 06 November 2010 - 03:43 AM

[Multibooter]

OT: DB061 contains the facsimile of the first edition and the Riverside Edition, both in English. The software makes it very easy to compare passages in the editions. DB061 is out of print, there is 1 copy for USD 65 at
http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item2ea9b37fe1 Directmedia is selling to university libraries, so DB061 can probably be found in an academic institution near you. Another volume, DB059 "English and American Literature", is also in English and contains most important English-language works, but no facsimiles of the original edition.

Back to VoptXP: VoptXP v7.22 was written in Visual Basic 6 [it accesses msvbvm60.dll, as shown by MiTeC EXE Explorer], but Win98 stays locked under both msvbvm60.dll v6.00.9782 (23-Feb-2004) and v6.00.9815 (5-Mar-2009).

VoptXP locks up Win98 only when moving files. After moving a file, VoptXP seems to check for keyboard input, then moves the next file. If the files being moved are small, Win98 doesn't appear locked up, but when big files (e.g 100MB-4GB) are moved, Win98 stays locked for up to 30 minutes. This seems to be caused by the way VoptXP was programmed, and probably very little can be done about it. Although VoptXP v7.22 seems to be a blazingly fast defragger under Win98, I have rejected it because it cannot handle partitions with large files without locking up Win98.

[jaclaz]

Multibooter, on 06 November 2010 - 11:49 AM, said:

Although VoptXP v7.22 seems to be a blazingly fast defragger under Win98, I have rejected it because it cannot handle partitions with large files without locking up Win98.

There is always the good ol' method:

• you start the defrag
  
• you go to sleep leaving the PC working
  
• next morning you see what it did (unless of course you like watching the little coloured squares or bars moving up and down and right and left )

Seriously, next candidate:
http://www.quusoft.c...ft-disk-defrag/

at 50 bucks/year , it must be the eigth wonder of the world, expecially if you don't need all the other <put here an adequate word> they bundle with it.

This thingy (just a wrapper):
http://www.blueorbso...frag/index.html
seems like hinting (actually plainly saying ) that effective defragmentation on Win9x/Me requires "exclusive" access or however you EITHER defrag OR work with the PC in most cases:
http://www.blueorbso...rag/Readme.html
the whole idea of a "restrictive" mode should mean something.

Another candidate (cannot say if it will actually run on 9x/Me - it seems like this info is not available):
http://www.softpedia...iskRescue.shtml

Yet another one (free AND seemingly Win9x/Me compatible):
http://www.glarysoft...s/disk-speedup/

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 06 November 2010 - 12:36 PM

[rainyd]

Jaclaz, I must say that impressed with all your finds.
Second and third link unfortunately doesn't work (at least in this moment).

DiscRescue probably don't work under Win9x:
http://www.liutiliti...cts/diskrescue/

I have installed the last uility but I've got message that DiskDefrag.dll is connected with missing export of Kernel32.dll: GetVolumeNameForVolumeMountPointW.