[Multibooter]

jaclaz, on 06 November 2010 - 12:35 PM, said:

next candidate: http://www.quusoft.c...ft-disk-defrag/

QuuSoft Disk Defrag installs Ok under Win98SE, but does not run under Win98SE. The 1st err msg displays: "H:\QuuSoft Disk Defrag\DiskDefrag.exe. A device attached to the system is not functioning." The 2nd err msg displays: "Error Starting program. The H:\QUUSOFT DISK DEFRAG\AD\AD.DLL file expects a newer version of windows. Upgrade your Windows version." Maybe an older version works under Win98. I hope \AD\AD.DLL is not adware, like what some version of FlashGet contain.

I then installed Norton SystemWorks 2004 on a test Win98. SpeedDisk defragmented and optimized free file space Ok on a 192GB partition on the pre-brick 1TB HDD connected via eSATA to my old laptop. But SpeedDisk seems to be very slow, maybe it's doing some optimizations. I don't need optimized file placement on an external HDD.

Quote

[ScanDefrag 5.7 at http://www.blueorbso...rag/Readme.html ] seems like hinting (actually plainly saying ) that effective defragmentation on Win9x/Me requires "exclusive" access... you EITHER defrag OR work with the PC in most cases... the whole idea of a "restrictive" mode should mean something.

Norton SpeedDisk defragmented fine in the background, while I was using other applications.

Here some old notes of mine regarding Norton SystemWorks 2004 (one of its components is SpeedDisk) under Win98SE:
"REJECTED 11/20/06
. the system seems much crisper without it 10/11/06
UNINSTALL 10/11/06
. it seems to be a pain to get rid of it"

Before the uninstall I was using Norton Disk Doctor and SpeedDisk installed from the original NSW2004 CD. Eventually I re-installed NDD via file-copy as a standalone application, without the Symantec Activation and LiveUpdate, which had turned my system into a sluggish and crash-prone computer. NDD as a standalone application, however, is top under Win98SE (except for some partition table repairs, which may be dangerous), just as standalone Ghost v11.0.2 is top under Win98SE.

After having installed NSW 2004, from the original CD, but not activated, on the test Win98 opsys (to avoid that the Activation and LiveUpdate stuff of NSW2004 corrupt my working Win98 opsys), I copied the following 9 files to the folder with NDD-standalone:
Sd32.exe
Sd32.hlp
Sd32eng.dll
Sd32vxd.vxd
N32DLSTU.DLL
Norton.exe
\Program Files\Symantec\S32evnt1.dll
\Program Files\Common Files\Symantec Shared\Symmigr8.dll
Unfortunately, nothing happened when I double-clicked on Sd32.exe.

I checked for any NOTFOUND files with Filemon, according to the 5-year-old discussion in http://www.msfn.org/...e-agent-string/ , but nothing obvious was displayed. "I know for sure that Speed Disk for Windows 98 can be standalone... Sorry I don't remember..." in posting #7 there by Oleg_II

Are there anywhere good instructions on how to build a standalone SpeedDisk for Win98SE from the files of the regular installation of NSW 2004?

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 07 November 2010 - 04:39 AM

[jaclaz]

Multibooter, on 06 November 2010 - 09:32 PM, said:

Unfortunately, nothing happened when I double-clicked on Sd32.exe.

Typically (and that is one of the reason why I won't touch ANY Symantec piece of software released in the last, say, twelve years ) Norton apps tend to write a few hundreds keys in the Registry ....
There is a specific tool to remove that huge piece of bloat, if I recall correctly it is Symnrt:
ftp://ftp.symantec.c...ed_files/tsgen/

Multibooter, on 06 November 2010 - 09:32 PM, said:

Are there anywhere good instructions on how to build a standalone SpeedDisk for Win98SE from the files of the regular installation of NSW 2004?

I doubt it.

Another thingy worth a shot
http://web.archive.o...owerdefrag.com/
http://web.archive.o...ad/PD0210B2.exe

Another known "facilitator" for Win9x is "EnditAll", you can find it here:
http://www.compu-docs.com/links.htm

Yet another "candidate":
http://www.ylcomputi...t/view/342/150/

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 07 November 2010 - 06:19 AM

[Joseph_sw]

quick defrag using defraggler, a NT based defragmenter software don't even touch fragmented directory clusters, nor you expect it to do optimization on removed entries (aka deleted files/folder entries) in directories entries.
using old norton DiskEdit will reveals this fact.

is there any FAT32 defragmenter apps that runs under true win98se dos?
i wont mind the good ol' method if it would work under true dos.

[jaclaz]

Joseph_sw, on 07 November 2010 - 07:42 AM, said:

is there any FAT32 defragmenter apps that runs under true win98se dos?
i wont mind the good ol' method if it would work under true dos.

Your google-fu is low....
http://www.bttr-soft...try.php?id=4713

Also Rom-Dos Defrag is claimed to be FAT32 and LFN compatible:
http://web.archive.o....bg/doskbc3.htm

Have you tried the FreeDOS version:
http://savannah.nong...ts/free-defrag/
http://download.sava...ag/DFRAG131.ZIP
http://www.unet.univ...ain.Gall-DEFRAG

OT , but not much , Partition Logic has also Defrag capabilities (on FAT filesystems):
http://partitionlogi...g.uk/index.html

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 07 November 2010 - 09:01 AM

[Joseph_sw]

jaclaz, on 07 November 2010 - 08:48 AM, said:

Your google-fu is low....

well, thats true.

jaclaz, on 07 November 2010 - 08:48 AM, said:

http://www.bttr-soft...try.php?id=4713

i choose to clear way from paragon partition program, as i experienced this disaster when i tried to resize the cluster size.
my knowledge using diskedit and delphi allow me to learn how the errors occured/formed and able to salvages about 7/8 of the content.

the paragon partion manager wrote the wrong first cluster mark on every file/folder entry in every directory clusters, what would happend if i allow scandisk to repairs that error??

jaclaz, on 07 November 2010 - 08:48 AM, said:

Also Rom-Dos Defrag is claimed to be FAT32 and LFN compatible:
http://web.archive.o....bg/doskbc3.htm

its offer rom-dos defragd, but it also states it doesn't support fat32.

Quote

On the other hand, ROM-DOS 7.10 DEFRAG works fine under MS-DOS 7.10 with LFN. Therefore, under DOS, this is the best one for you.
...
Still unfortunately, this defrag tool doesn't work with FAT32 drives yet. For FAT32 support, please read the information below.

there also offfer defragw.exe which support fat32 when i download it, it turn out to be defragw.exe from winME.
however i already using winme defrag, and its refuse to work with my partition.

that one partition was about 80 GB with 4KBytes/cluster, and also contain a few .nrg files that larger than 3GB in size.

jaclaz, on 07 November 2010 - 08:48 AM, said:

Have you tried the FreeDOS version:
http://savannah.nong...ts/free-defrag/
http://download.sava...ag/DFRAG131.ZIP
http://www.unet.univ...ain.Gall-DEFRAG

OT , but not much , Partition Logic has also Defrag capabilities (on FAT filesystems):
http://partitionlogi...g.uk/index.html

i'm curious about this statemnet:

Quote

It uses real mode code (“640 KB mode”), and XMS if available

is this one won't be plaqued by "too-many-clusters-to-defrag" problem?
but, i will try the free-dos one, since my cd burner and floppy drive is currently not functioning well, and its provide source code to examine.

jaclaz, on 07 November 2010 - 08:48 AM, said:

jaclaz

Thanks for the information.

[jaclaz]

Joseph_sw, on 07 November 2010 - 02:17 PM, said:

that one partition was about 80 GB with 4KBytes/cluster, and also contain a few .nrg files that larger than 3GB in size.

Yep.
Traditionally using "standard" software on "non-standard" setups has rarely turned out as successful.

jaclaz

[Multibooter]

dencorso, on 03 November 2010 - 06:01 PM, said:

Defragmentation under XP is much more flexible. And way more stable.

Maybe there is a tool which can be used under Win98. I have installed Norton SystemWorks 2005 Standard for real-life testing on my good Win98SE opsys on my 10-year-old 700 MHz Inspiron 7500 laptop, where there are 100+ apps. The only component I selected during the installation was Norton Speed Disk. I am posting this while Speed Disk is defragging the internal FAT32 HDD. CpuIdle shows a high CPU usage, the laptop fan is blowing but the system is fully responsive.

Earlier I was also on the internet while Speed Disk defragged fine a 192GB partition of the external 1 TB HDD connected via eSATA to my 10-year-old laptop. The system became very sluggish for a while, but never crashed or hung.

Speed Disk of NSW 2005 seems to be up to now the defragmentation software of choice under Win98SE - if one wants to fill one's system with Symantec overhead of unknown consequences. Nevertheless, I was impressed.

Now to the tricky part: How can one set up a standalone Speed Disk? Norton SystemWorks 2005 installs 62MB of stuff, even if one selects only Speed Disk.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 17 November 2010 - 09:56 PM

[dencorso]

By trial and error. The best way would be to set up a test machine having a plain vanilla 9x installed, then image it fully, then install regshot 1.8.2, and then install the Symantec product, using regshot to monitor the registry changes. Then save the installed files away, redeploy the image and start adding files and registry entries until it starts working. It's a painful and time consuming process, which may, or may not, give results, but I don't know of any shortcut to it. Of course, Dependency Walker 2.2.6000.0 can serve as a guide as to what to put in, but some of it will always be educated guesswork. The only thing I know for sure is that the appropriate entry at HKLM\Software\Symantec\InstalledApps is of paramount importance for any Symantec application, and I bet HKLM\Software\Symantec\Norton Speed Disk and HKLM\Software\Symantec\Speed Disk are, too, for your specific problem...

[jaclaz]

I'll just throw this one on the table, and see if anyone finds it of use:
http://web.archive.o...ut1719.001.html
http://web.archive.o...ut1719.002.html
http://web.archive.o...ut1719.003.html
http://web.archive.o...ut1719.004.html
http://web.archive.o...ut1719.005.html
http://web.archive.o...ut1719.006.html
http://web.archive.o...ut1719.007.html

http://web.archive.o...cm&fcode=000UYR

Actual file needs a bit of googling.
http://thedailyrevie...tatus-104442191

jaclaz

[Multibooter]

I just completed my stability test of Speed Disk of NSW 2005 defragmenting in the background under Win98SE. On my 10-year-old Inspiron 7500 (700 MHz, 512 MB RAM) I had eMule running/downloading and was browsing at the same time the Internet with Firefox at a JavaScript-heavy page while Speed Disk was defragmenting the internal HDD, then defragmenting a 192GB partition of a 1TB HDD connected to the laptop via a Vantec eSATA PCCard. Speed Disk fragmented fine, even if the system became slow when the 192GB partition was being defragmented, but no unresponsiveness or hanging/crashing of the computer.

Speed Disk of NSW 2005, defragmenting in the background, passed my stability test with flying colors.

I also defragmented with Speed Disk under Win98SE the FAT32 partition on which WinXP SP2 resides. I then booted into this FAT32-WinXP, which came up fine as usual. So Speed Disk of NSW 2005 does not do anything bad to the FAT32 partition which WinXP can't swallow. The defragmented FAT32 partition seems to be fully compatible with WinXP running under FAT32.

I then gave Vopt v7.22 another try: Vopt 7.22 when loaded via MyRun v1.1 defragments Ok in the background a 20GB partition on the internal HDD.

But when defragmenting the 192GB partition of an external 1TB HDD, connected via eSATA, Vopt locks the system for about 1 hour. The system turns completely unresponsive and the screen eventually turns black (Win98 power setting), and I couldn't turn the screen on again until Vopt had finished. The only indication that the computer was doing something at all was that the activity lights of the eSATA PCCard and of the EZ-Dock docking station were blinking. Once Vopt was finished, everything was Ok and back to normal.

I will make one more test with Vopt under Win98SE, using a USB 2.0 PCCard under nusb 3.3 instead of the eSATA card.

Addendum: I just finished the defragging test with the external HDD connected via USB 2.0: the locking problem is still there, but seems less severe than when connected via eSATA. Apparently every time Vopt finishes defragging a file, it checks for keyboard input.

Vopt v7.22 seems to be Ok under Win98 if you are ready to go for an extended coffee break during defragmentation, and for displaying the defragmentation status of a partition (number of gaps and fragmented files)

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 18 November 2010 - 12:39 PM

[Multibooter]

Prozactive, on 04 November 2010 - 09:42 AM, said:

I second dencorso. The simplest solution is to use the native WinXP disk defragmenter for all your partitions/drives. That's often what I do with my dual-boot systems. Is there any particular reason you need to do it from Win98?

jaclaz, on 04 November 2010 - 09:57 AM, said:

Multibooter... wants to defragment under Windows 98, his question seems like clear enough to me... I guess he most probably has a reason to ask this (and not another question)

There are several reasons:

1) Win98 uses BIOS info, WinXP gets its own info.
On my old laptop under a 2nd WinXP operating system (named by me "WinXP-NTFS") I defragged with PerfectDisk the FAT32 partition of my main WinXP opsys (named by me "WinXP-FAT32") and then ran sdelete to zero out free space (so that Ghost would create a smaller .gho image file of the WinXP-FAT partition). When I then booted into Win98SE and checked the defragged and sdeleted WinXP-FAT32 partition with Norton Disk Doctor, NDD detected lost clusters and displayed the error msg: "The boot area on this drive contains invalid information about the drive's free space. Windows may report the drive's free space incorrectly or slowly." I speculate that when I run the defragmentation and sdelete of the WinXP-FAT32 partition under Win98 I will not get these errors. In other words: defragging and sdeleting under WinXP somehow caused a minor corruption on my disk, as seen under Win98.

My 10-year-old laptop has a very old BIOS. The 120Gib HDD inside it is reported incorrectly by this old BIOS as 64GB. Maybe PerfectDisk and sdelete under WinXP are using the (correct) WinXP info, while Win98 uses the incorrect BIOS value. For example, the only way that I can create a good clone of the internal HDD (i.e. a clone which is acceptable to System Commander) is to insert a blank HDD into the right-bay HDD module of the laptop and then clone it with the Paragon Partition Manager 9.0 RecoveryCD (Linux-based). When I insert the original or the cloned HDD into a USB enclosure, for example, PartitionMagic under Win98 will report it as a bad disk.

In other words, I am using a 120GB internal HDD, which I shouldn't because the BIOS can handle only a 64GB drive. The 120GB drive is basically bad, but because of the flukes of good partitioning, it has always worked for me. After extensive file copies Win98 often freezes, and then after rebooting NDD fixes up fine the error "The boot area on this drive contains invalid information about the drive's free space." I never had any data loss under Win98 because I used a 120GB HDD with an old max.64GB BIOS. So in my special case, defragging and sdeleting a weird HDD under WinXP may cause problems under Win98.

2) WinXP seems to ignore Long File Name errors during defragmentation. Under Win98 defragmentation stops when an LFN error is encountered. Also, WinXP and Win98 seem to have some incompatibilities with Long File Names/DOS file names in different foreign languages. So defragmenting partitions with LFN errors or strange foreign-language file/directories names may produce different results under Win98 and WinXP

3) If one is interested in an optimized file/directory location when running under Win98, the defragmentation software has to access the Applog data of Win98. This cannot be done under WinXP. So to defrag an opsys in an optimized way, it has to be done under the operating system being defraqgged, and each opsys partition should be defragged while in that specific opsys.

Based on usage patterns stored in \Windows\APPLOG\, file X will be placed in position A with optimized defragging under opsys 1, and then be placed in position B with optimized defragging under opsys 2. What is fast for one opsys, may not be fast for another opsys.

4) FAT32 is the main file system of Win9x. It would be a shame if there were no decent defragger under Win9x for its own main file system, working on a computer with recent hardware.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 18 November 2010 - 05:32 PM

[dencorso]

Just for the record, here's a link to the Norton Removal Tool 9x, probably the best App from Symantec ever!
AFAIK, this is the last version for 9x, and it doesn't expire, like all previous versions.
It may be useful to help creating the standalone version of Norton Speed Disk. It does a pretty comprehensive job, so take care: it may be able to remove or cripple the standalone Ghost install you've got, so be prepared to put it back, before using the NRT9x.

[jds]

Joseph_sw, on 07 November 2010 - 02:17 PM, said:

there also offfer defragw.exe which support fat32 when i download it, it turn out to be defragw.exe from winME.
however i already using winme defrag, and its refuse to work with my partition.

that one partition was about 80 GB with 4KBytes/cluster, and also contain a few .nrg files that larger than 3GB in size.

Previously I have seen here recommendations to use the WinME defrag on W98, I know it's supposed to be a lot faster, not sure what other virtues it may have. What error/symptom did you get with it?

Also, is the unofficial 'COPY2GB.EXE' patch relevant here?

Joe.

[Prozactive]

@Multibooter:
Thanks for the long technical explanation. I did not realize you had BIOS HD geometry issues. I've had very limited experience with those but they are obviously very complex and can cause many serious problems especially with defragmentation and similar operations. Yes I knew about the APPLOG impact on Windows defragmentation and I have played around some with the native Win98 (actually WinME replacement) vs. WinXP defragmenters. The WinXP defrag does work somewhat differently from the Win98/ME defrag but not as much as I would've thought. I would classify it as a minor difference. I have not taken the time and energy to analyze the detailed file relocation differences though.

I also appreciated the long earlier detailed discussions on the various disk defragmenters. My all-time favorite defragmenter is still Norton Speed Disk. I've used it ever since the DOS days before Peter Norton sold out to Symantec. The current version I'm using dates from around 1999 to 2000 (pre-WinXP) and it has problems with very large HD partitions, where it completely freezes during scanning. As a result, I have to use the WinXP defragmenter on those drives. I was not aware that the Speed Disk in NSW 2005 was the last version compatible with Win9x/ME and worked so well. If I had known, I definitely would've gotten it. I'll definitely keep my eye out for any old copies. I especially like the customizable defrag available in Speed Disk, where you can specifically arrange the order and locations of various files/directories based upon usage patterns.

[duffy98]

... been doing some searching around for a comparison on Windows Defrag and Norton Speed Disk ... this discussion dates back to 2007 .. some people seem to find the Windows Defrag does a better job than Speed Disk.

Norton Speed Disk vs Windows Disk Defragmenter

by dualcg - January 3, 2007 9:17 PM PST

In Reply to: A Good Habit is Hard To Break: by kingdomofjones

I have been battling a problem that Norton Techs don't seem to be able to help with. I run Windows Defrag, and follow up with Speed Disk. Speed disk always increases the amount of fragmentation. In fact, I can go into speed disk, run analyze, read the percentage fragmentation, run optimize, and end up with an increase in the amount of fragmentation. On the other hand, if I run Speed Disk first, Windows defgrag does a more complete job. Any suggestions?

---------------------------

by caktus - January 4, 2007 12:27 PM PST

In Reply to: Windows defrag vs. Speed Disk by dualcg

Given my experiences and what you have mentioned, I would surely (and do) use the Windows tool.

As far as Diskeeper And Perfect Disk, other than some unnecessary additional functions where the average home user is concerned, the only difference I have seen is that the Windows tool is much faster.

Why spend money when it is best left in your pocket.

---------------------------

by ronalds173 - January 9, 2007 5:29 PM PST

In Reply to: Windows defrag vs. Speed Disk by dualcg

I have noticed the same happening with my computer. I do know that once you defrag with NSW it takes a while before it finally determines how much, if any, is still fragmented. I have also found that I can sometimes get much better results by defraging twice consecutively with either Windows XP or NSW. My hard drive is formatted into two drives and, lately I have noticed that my second hard drive is becoming fragmented in a very short period of time. I have no idea why?


I guess it doesn't really clear anything up ... I mentioned before that I use the ME Defrag with Windows 98SE and then I run Crackup to check on how much my HD is fragmented to know when to defrag again.

Found this interesting article about different defrag software ... Defragmenting software to choose from


http://www.finestdai...hoose-from.html


...

This post has been edited by duffy98: 19 November 2010 - 11:16 AM

[dencorso]

jds, on 19 November 2010 - 01:46 AM, said:

Also, is the unofficial 'COPY2GB.EXE' patch relevant here?

It should be.... and the simultaneous multiple file copies unofficial shell32 v. 634 should also be so. In any case, just for the record, Win ME defragmenter should be subject to the same limitations than scandiskw, since they depend on the same DskMaint.dll, so it should be good with all partitions smaller than 320 GB or so, and maybe with bigger ones, too.
However, DskMaint.dll is a NE executable (16-bit), and as such, has intrinsic limitations in its use of memory that wouldnt be there if it were a PE executable (Win32).

[Multibooter]

duffy98, on 19 November 2010 - 11:07 AM, said:

... been doing some searching around for a comparison on Windows Defrag and Norton Speed Disk ... this discussion dates back to 2007 .. some people seem to find the Windows Defrag does a better job than Speed Disk.... quotation: I have been battling a problem that Norton Techs don't seem to be able to help with. I run Windows Defrag, and follow up with Speed Disk. Speed disk always increases the amount of fragmentation

I can confirm this. Vopt v7.22 indicates the number of fragmented files when clicking on the Analyze button and can also display nicely which files are fragmented.

After defragging a partition with Vopt, the number of fragmented files was reduced to zero. When I ran Speed Disk 2005 immediately afterwards with the setting "Unfragment free space", then checked with Vopt the number of fragmented files: defragging with Speed Disk 2005 had INCREASED the number of fragmented files from 0 to 19. With the setting "Full Optimization" (=optimized placement using APPLOG data) the number of fragmented files increased to 29. With the setting "Unfragment files only" the number of fragmented files stayed at 0.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 19 November 2010 - 02:03 PM

[rloew]

duffy98, on 19 November 2010 - 11:07 AM, said:

As far as Diskeeper And Perfect Disk, other than some unnecessary additional functions where the average home user is concerned, the only difference I have seen is that the Windows tool is much faster.

I would not recommend Diskeeper. I tested the Windows 9x compatable Diskeeper a couple of years ago. It totally corrupts partitions larger than approx 200GB. I contacted the Company and they said that as far as they are concerned it doesn't support Windows 9x.

[Multibooter]

jaclaz, on 18 November 2010 - 07:51 AM, said:

I'll just throw this one on the table, and see if anyone finds it of use: http://web.archive.o...ut1719.001.html

Actual file needs a bit of googling. http://thedailyrevie...tatus-104442191

Crackup v1.0 can be downloaded from ftp://ftp.extremetec...103/crackup.zip

Crackup v1.0 works Ok under Win98 on a 192 GB partition of a 1TB HDD connected via eSATA. It's an analysis tool, but I like the Analyze feature of Vopt v7.22 much better, Vopt indicates the number of fragmented files on a partition and also the names of the files fragmented.

[Multibooter]

rloew, on 19 November 2010 - 01:52 PM, said:

I would not recommend Diskeeper. I tested the Windows 9x compatable Diskeeper a couple of years ago.

Which version?

Quote

It totally corrupts partitions larger than approx 200GB.

This wouldn't concern me much. I am limiting all my FAT32 partitions to 192 GB, which is the maximimum size for a FAT32 partition allowed by PowerQuest PartitionMagic 8, they must have had their reasons. Any FAT32 partition above 192GB =196.600.1MB I consider as potentially risky, some software might not be able to handle it correctly. Your experience with Diskeeper just confirms this personal 192GB rule.

By limiting myself to 192GB FAT32 partitions, I also limit the size of HDDs to a max of 1TB, to avoid drive letter overflow. I usually partition my external 1TB HDDs into 4 logical FAT32 partitions of 192GB and the remainder as a logical NTFS partition, with PowerQuest PartitionMagic 8 under Win98SE.

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 19 November 2010 - 02:56 PM