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128 bit SECUR32.DLL - Myth or Missing?

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#26
jds

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Have you tried the file MSIE128.EXE?

Actually, I'd not heard of this before. I've now seen it in a KB, but there was no download link.

I guess that the actual explanation comes hear-hear :w00t: from the NSA:
http://www.nsa.gov/i..._9x_clients.pdf

(page 9)

That would explain everything nicely.

Same old propaganda, regurgitated by so-called experts that can't think for themselves. Beware security of W98 machines, make sure they're guarded from physical access, they use FAT, whereas NT machines are so much more secure thanks to NTFS. Yeah right, a proprietary file system without a publicly available specification may hamper recovery efforts, but it doesn't stop an intruder getting in.


I am curious now, if that is the sole factor or if it checks other things?

Well, jds has the right attitude to be our lab rat :w00t: ;) and report.

Since the "high encryption packs":
http://www.microsoft...it/default.mspx

Contain:
  • ADVPACK.DLL
  • enhsig.dll
  • ie5dom.inf
  • rsaenh.dll
  • sch128c.dll
  • W95INF16.DLL
  • W95INF32.DLL
I would suspect a check for one of the bolded files (or a specific version of them), but let's wait for test results. :)

jaclaz

Well, I have some success to report!

# First experiment. Dusted off an old laptop with W98FE …

Initially, IE was 4.01, with 40 bit encryption.
Installed 'dun14-SE.exe', but IE remained at 40 bit encryption!
Installed 'ie4dom.exe', now IE had 128 bit encryption.
Installed 'dsclient.exe' 5.00.2920.0005, 'secur32.dll' was now 4.10.2226 - 128 bit!!!

It was a bit of a surprise to see the 4.10.2226 version number for 'secur32.dll', since the 56 bit sub-version within the above 'dsclient.exe' file is version 4.10.2228. I thought perhaps this lower version number was due to this being W98FE.

Note, see http://www.msfn.org/...post__p__945562 for a link to 'dsclient.exe' 5.00.2920.0005.

# Second experiment. Dusted off an old laptop with W98SE …

Initially, IE was 5.0, with 40 bit encryption & 'secur32.dll' was 4.10.2222 - 56 bit.
Installed 'ie5dom.exe', now IE had 128 bit encryption.
Installed 'dsclient.exe' 5.00.2920.0005, 'secur32.dll' was now 4.10.2226 - 128 bit!!

OK, now where did that 4.10.2226 version of 'secur32.dll' come from? Comparing to the W98FE one, it was the same file. It could not have been produced by patching the original file, since that would be impractical (original version could be anything) and the 4.10.2228 (56 bit) version was too different. So 'dsclient.exe' must have this 128 bit sub-version of 'secur32.dll' hidden somewhere within it. The fact that it had a lower version number than the 56 bit sub-version suggests that MS only bothered to produce a 56 bit version of this hotfix. This is [edit: the word "possibly" should go here, since this is just one interpretation] implied by http://support.microsoft.com/kb/267879 which states :

The hotfix that is described in this article is not fully compatible with the Windows 95 or Windows 98 Directory Service client. The Windows 95 and Windows 98 Directory Service client contains a version of the Secur32.dll file that provides additional functionality that is not included in the version of the Secur32.dll file that is included with Windows 95, Windows 98, and Windows 98 Second Edition. This hotfix also does not provide the additional Directory Service client functionality.


# Third experiment. The '266772usa8.exe' hotfix …

Perhaps this hotfix can provide a 128 bit subversion of 'secur32.dll' 4.10.2228?
Well, applying this hotfix to the above W98SE laptop updated the version of 'secur32.dll', BUT now it was 56 bit again!
Re-applying 'dsclient.exe' did not change it back to 4.10.2226 (128 bit).
Deleting 'secur32.dll' (in DOS mode) and re-applying 'dsclient.exe' did.

# Fourth experiment. Those "high encryption pack" files …

Of those files listed above, the following were present on the W98SE laptop : 'ADVPACK.DLL', 'enhsig.dll', 'rsaenh.dll', 'W95INF16.DLL' and 'W95INF32.DLL'.

These files were copied onto the W98SE desktop with IE 5.01SP2 mentioned at the outset of this thread, after first backing up the existing files. Deleting the 'secur32.dll' file (in DOS mode) and applying 'dsclient.exe' 5.00.2920.0005 resulted in the 128 bit sub-version of 'secur32.dll' 4.10.2226! (The above substituted files were then restored.)

# Conclusions …

Yes, 128 bit sub-version(s) of 'secur32.dll' really DO exist. The latest proven to exist is version 4.10.2226.

The 'dsclient.exe' package (similarly, the MSI packages) create the 128 bit sub-version(s) of 'secur32.dll' only if they detect IE is at 128 bit encryption. Unfortunately, this detection is flawed, it seems to work for IE 4 and IE 5.0, but seems to fail for newer editions of IE (or may be affected by updates). It can be forced to recognise that IE is at 128 bit encryption level by copying the "high encryption pack" files mentioned above (probably only one of these files is key).

# Caution …

The 4.10.2226 version of 'secur32.dll' has a Unicode bug, identified in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266772 . This may be the reason why 'cntlm' (an NTLM authentication proxy) failed for me, after installing the 128 bit sub-version of this file. I rectified this by copying the (56 bit) sub-version of 'secur32.dll' 4.10.2228 into the same directory as 'cntlm.exe'.

Joe.

Edited by jds, 16 November 2010 - 06:34 AM.



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#27
jaclaz

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Now that you have confirmed that the "trick" is inside dsclient.exe, I presume the same EXACT file here 5.0.2920.5:
ftp://ftp.catalyst.com/pub/cstools/support/dsclient.exe

And what happens with the one here 5.0.2920.0:
http://www.xlightftpd.com/faq.htm
http://www.xlightftp...ad/Dsclient.exe


Check the "instsec.dll" properties ;) (remember that on NT systems SECUR32.DLL was called SECURITY.DLL., and as usual in the MS world the internal name of SECUR32.DLL is still SECURITY.DLL :whistle:

IF it's that, the SAME "instsec.dll" file is also inside dsclient9x.msi (but other files are changed, particularly in the .msi SECUR32.DLL is 4.10.0.226 whilst in the .exe it is 4.10.0.228) :wacko:


jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 15 November 2010 - 08:38 AM.


#28
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Can you try it with the WinME version SECUR32.DLL?

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#29
triger49

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Just for my own peace of mind.....

Tryed all 3 versions of the dsclient install on my 98se system
with ie6sp1....all 3 produced the same "export" version of Secur32.dll.

Next stop was grab the high encryption pack and checked the included
Dll's against what was resident on my system, The only thing missing
of 3 jaclaz pointed out was sch128c. dll. So I copied that into the Windows
System directory , ended with same results.

Next stop is to find out if that DLL needs to be registered, also going to
roll back my registry to a pretest state and try again.....
any other suggestions would be welcome???

Jake

#30
erpdude8

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Can you try it with the WinME version SECUR32.DLL?


The WinME version of SECUR32.DLL is v4.90.3000 dated 6/8/2000 AND is 56bit.
I know because I have an actual WinME system. File description of ME's secur32.dll file says "Microsoft Win32 Security Services (Export Version)"

Next stop was grab the high encryption pack and checked the included
Dll's against what was resident on my system, The only thing missing
of 3 jaclaz pointed out was sch128c. dll. So I copied that into the Windows
System directory , ended with same results.


the sch128c.dll file is just a renamed schannel.dll file, Jake. that one has 128bit encryption.

Edited by erpdude8, 15 November 2010 - 01:40 PM.


#31
erpdude8

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IF it's that, the SAME "instsec.dll" file is also inside dsclient9x.msi (but other files are changed, particularly in the .msi SECUR32.DLL is 4.10.0.226 whilst in the .exe it is 4.10.0.228) :wacko:


jaclaz


yup. both old and new versions of the dsclient w9x package have that instsec.dll file which would then get renamed to secur32.dll during setup.

so indeed as Joe said a 128bit secur32.dll file does exist. it's just that Microsoft hid it so well and changed the name of that file.
clever guy MS...

#32
dencorso

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@jds: Can you provide the exact size and CRC-32, MD-5 and SHA-1 hashes of the bona-fide secur32.dll v. 4.10.2226 - 128 bit?
This would be a great reference for future use, for such a hard-to-get file, and also permit us to determine whether it truly is the unchanged instsec.dll.
I just looked into that file and it says "High strength upgrade" in the description and SECURITY in the internal name and SECURITY.DLL in the original file name, so I'm not at all convinced it is used unmodified.

#33
jaclaz

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@jds: Can you provide the exact size and CRC-32, MD-5 and SHA-1 hashes of the bona-fide secur32.dll v. 4.10.2226 - 128 bit?
This would be a great reference for future use, for such a hard-to-get file, and also permit us to determine whether it truly is the unchanged instsec.dll.
I just looked into that file and it says "High strength upgrade" in the description and SECURITY in the internal name and SECURITY.DLL in the original file name, so I'm not at all convinced it is used unmodified.


As said, it is NOTused unmodified (i.e. renamed)
During install it (or something else triggered by it) patches the actual SECUR32.DLL

Just have a look at instsec and to secur32 dll's with bintext or a similar text extractor:
http://www.foundston...esc/bintext.htm

;)
jaclaz

#34
erpdude8

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jaclaz has a good point, dencorso.

during dsclient9x installation, instsec.dll gets renamed to secur32.dll when dsclient setup detects certain DLL files that have 128bit encryption
something I (and many other 9x users) wasn't fully aware about

instsec.dll (when renamed to secur32.dll) is 83,456 bytes in size [according to the DSClient (v5.0.2920.5) KB323455 hotfix package that I have]
KB323455 hotfix still exists but MS KB article 323455 doesn't exist anymore

Edited by erpdude8, 15 November 2010 - 06:11 PM.


#35
dencorso

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Sure it does: KB323455 (and KB323466, to which it points, too). B)

#36
dencorso

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I'm not convinced, erpdude8!

jaclaz is right (of course!):

As said, it is NOT used unmodified (i.e. renamed)
During install it (or something else triggered by it) patches the actual SECUR32.DLL

And his own finding:

I guess that the actual explanation comes hear-hear :w00t: from the NSA:
http://www.nsa.gov/i..._9x_clients.pdf

(page 9)

That would explain everything nicely.

States literally, in p. 9:

Verify the installation by locating the Secur32.dll file, clicking Properties and the Version tab. The description for the 56-bit version is "Microsoft Win32 Security Services (Export Version)". The description for the 128-bit version is "Microsoft Win32 Security Services (US and Canada Only)".

While, again, the description for intsec.dll is just "High strength upgrade"!

So I maintain my request:
@jds: Can you please provide the exact size and CRC-32, MD-5 and SHA-1 hashes of the bona-fide secur32.dll v. 4.10.2226 - 128 bit? Tools to do it, if you don't alteady have them, are here (just FCIV.EXE and CRC.EXE are enough):

* CRC/MD5/SHA file (PE) checksum tools that work with 9x OSes [free(ware)]:
http://www.mdgx.com/xptoy.htm#CRC
The ones I'm refering to [because they work with 95/98/ME] are: FCIV.EXE, CRC.EXE, WinCRC + FileRepair.



#37
erpdude8

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I'm not convinced, erpdude8!


ah, so you are still skeptical. that's alright. jaclaz, how do you respond to this?

I guess that the actual explanation comes hear-hear :w00t: from the NSA:
http://www.nsa.gov/i..._9x_clients.pdf

(page 9)

That would explain everything nicely.

States literally, in p. 9:

Verify the installation by locating the Secur32.dll file, clicking Properties and the Version tab. The description for the 56-bit version is "Microsoft Win32 Security Services (Export Version)". The description for the 128-bit version is "Microsoft Win32 Security Services (US and Canada Only)".

While, again, the description for intsec.dll is just "High strength upgrade"!


that kind of information of checking between the "export" version and the 128bit version of the secur32.dll file from that PDF file is not entirely accurate, dencorso.

Note to PROBLEMCHYLD: Dsclient does not include nor support WinME as mentioned in MS KB article 276472.

Edited by erpdude8, 15 November 2010 - 10:22 PM.


#38
Tihiy

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DSClient setup uses instsec.dll to write 128-bit secur32.dll when 128-bit schanel.dll, rsaenh.dll and rsaenhs.dll are detected (hash of file matches to the ones it knows).

#39
jds

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Next stop was grab the high encryption pack and checked the included
Dll's against what was resident on my system, The only thing missing
of 3 jaclaz pointed out was sch128c. dll. So I copied that into the Windows
System directory , ended with same results.

Hi Jake, please see "Fourth experiment" in my previous post. This shows all I did (inc. files I copied) to produce the 128 bit version of 'secur32.dll' on my machine with IE5.01SP2, which might be enough with IE6 (I'll be trying this myself as soon as I have a chance). The 'sch128c.dll' file was not included.

So I maintain my request:
@jds: Can you please provide the exact size and CRC-32, MD-5 and SHA-1 hashes of the bona-fide secur32.dll v. 4.10.2226 - 128 bit?

No worries. (BTW, I've been away, but in any case, I'm not on the web everyday) :unsure:

Anyway, here are the requested statistics :

File = SECUR32.DLL version 4.10.2226, 128-bit build
Description = Microsoft Win32 Security Services (US and Canada Only)
Size = 59904
MD5 = 8854c4fb59b506e53c5a4200142d188e
SHA1 = de40257dffa532eb8f4d9cbfc3e518d229dcf5ab
CRC32 = 7500186b

Joe.

PS. You guys/gals sure have been busy sleuthing! :thumbup

PPS. OK, I need to catch up on some sleep now!

#40
Tihiy

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Secur32.dll 128-bit version differs by just 1 byte in code section.
So here is secur32.dll 4.10.2228 128-bit created by altering that byte (and version in resources) in Export version:

Attached File  secur32.zip   28.9KB   57 downloads
Hot!

#41
dencorso

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While I was considering it possibly might be done, you went ahead and did it!
Great :thumbup Thanks a lot! :yes:

You do rock, Tihiy! Posted Image

#42
jaclaz

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DSClient setup uses instsec.dll to write 128-bit secur32.dll when 128-bit schanel.dll, rsaenh.dll and rsaenhs.dll are detected (hash of file matches to the ones it knows).


Q.E.D. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.E.D.

:thumbup

jaclaz

#43
jds

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While I was considering it possibly might be done, you went ahead and did it!
Great :thumbup Thanks a lot! :yes:

You do rock, Tihiy! Posted Image


Seconded! :thumbup

Tihiy hasn't merely changed one byte in the code, he's also updated all the version information, etc. Very neat!

Joe.

#44
jds

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# Fourth experiment. Those "high encryption pack" files …

Of those files listed above, the following were present on the W98SE laptop : 'ADVPACK.DLL', 'enhsig.dll', 'rsaenh.dll', 'W95INF16.DLL' and 'W95INF32.DLL'.

These files were copied onto the W98SE desktop with IE 5.01SP2 mentioned at the outset of this thread, after first backing up the existing files. Deleting the 'secur32.dll' file (in DOS mode) and applying 'dsclient.exe' 5.00.2920.0005 resulted in the 128 bit sub-version of 'secur32.dll' 4.10.2226! (The above substituted files were then restored.)


Just for my own peace of mind.....

Tryed all 3 versions of the dsclient install on my 98se system
with ie6sp1....all 3 produced the same "export" version of Secur32.dll.

Next stop was grab the high encryption pack and checked the included
Dll's against what was resident on my system, The only thing missing
of 3 jaclaz pointed out was sch128c. dll. So I copied that into the Windows
System directory , ended with same results.

Next stop is to find out if that DLL needs to be registered, also going to
roll back my registry to a pretest state and try again.....
any other suggestions would be welcome???

Jake




DSClient setup uses instsec.dll to write 128-bit secur32.dll when 128-bit schanel.dll, rsaenh.dll and rsaenhs.dll are detected (hash of file matches to the ones it knows).


Q.E.D. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.E.D.

:thumbup

jaclaz


I presume "DSClient setup uses instsec.dll to write 128-bit secur32.dll" means something like :
rundll32 instsec.dll,SomeEntryPoint

OK, by trial and error, I've determined that the only DLL that needed replacing (temporarily) with its counterpart from 'ie5dom.exe' on my (existing) IE5.01SP2 (128 bit) installation, to convince 'dsclient.exe' (5.00.2920.0005) to produce the 128 bit sub-version of 'secur32.dll', was rsaenh.dll. The files sch128c.dll, schanel.dll and rsaenhs.dll must not be relevant, as they do not even exist on this system.

Nothing more (eg. registering a DLL) was necessary. For IE5.5 and IE6.0, it's possible other DLL's may need to be temporarily replaced, so that 'ie5dom.exe' can recognise the system as 128 bit security enabled.

Joe.

#45
jaclaz

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From the "quick and dirty" suggestion I made (check instsec.dll with bintext or similar), the ONLY lines containg "dll" are:

00000000072C 00000620112C 0 rsaenhs.dll
000000000738 000006201138 0 rsaenh.dll
000000000744 000006201144 0 schannel.dll
000000003378 000006203D78 0 KERNEL32.dll
000000003396 000006203D96 0 IMAGEHLP.dll
0000000033EC 000006203DEC 0 instsch.dll
0000000033F8 000006203DF8 0 DllMain
000000013B5A 000006213B5A 0 _DllMain@12
000000013D44 000006213D44 0 ??_C@_0M@KHOF@rsaenhs?4dll?$AA@
000000013D64 000006213D64 0 ??_C@_0L@LOKH@rsaenh?4dll?$AA@
000000013D83 000006213D83 0 ??_C@_0N@MMCA@schannel?4dll?$AA@
000000014228 000006214228 0 obj\i386\instsch.dll
000000012E34 000006214834 0 SECURITY.DLL
00000000072C 00000620112C 0 rsaenhs.dll
000000000738 000006201138 0 rsaenh.dll
000000000744 000006201144 0 schannel.dll
000000003378 000006203D78 0 KERNEL32.dll
000000003396 000006203D96 0 IMAGEHLP.dll
0000000033EC 000006203DEC 0 instsch.dll
0000000033F8 000006203DF8 0 DllMain
000000013B5A 000006213B5A 0 _DllMain@12
000000013D44 000006213D44 0 ??_C@_0M@KHOF@rsaenhs?4dll?$AA@
000000013D64 000006213D64 0 ??_C@_0L@LOKH@rsaenh?4dll?$AA@
000000013D83 000006213D83 0 ??_C@_0N@MMCA@schannel?4dll?$AA@
000000014228 000006214228 0 obj\i386\instsch.dll
000000012E34 000006214834 0 SECURITY.DLL


So, all three dll's are somehow "queried" or "checked":
  • rsaenhs.dll
  • rsaenh.dll
  • schannel.dll

it is very possible that one only is enough to "trigger" the patching, though the order in which they are listed seem to suggest that the "first one" is rsaenhs.dll.


jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 17 November 2010 - 01:34 PM.


#46
jds

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So, all three dll's are somehow "queried" or "checked":

  • rsaenhs.dll
  • rsaenh.dll
  • schannel.dll

it is very possible that one only is enough to "trigger" the patching, though the order in which they are listed seem to suggest that the "first one" is rsaenhs.dll.

The evidence is that indeed, only one of these is needed to trigger the 128 bit sub-version of the patch (albeit 4.10.2226, whereas the 56 bit sub-version is up to 4.10.2228), since the first and third files in the above list don't even exist on my system.

Anyway, some updated information :

On my W98SE system with IE6SP1, again, the only file I needed to temporarily substitute to trigger the 128 bit patch was 'rsaenh.dll' from 'ie5dom.exe'. This is version 5.00.1877.3, dated 1999/9/3.

The version that 'dsclient.exe' (and I'm sure, the earlier 'dsclient.msi' ) doesn't recognize properly is version 5.00.1877.8, dated 1999/8/17 (yep, the later version has an earlier date!). This is the version in 'ie501dom.exe' and also 'iedom.cab' from IE5.01SP2, IE5.5 and IE6.0SP1.

Joe.

Edited by jds, 18 November 2010 - 02:14 AM.


#47
jaclaz

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@jds
Yep, we are saying the same thing, only a dfferent one. :w00t:

I am saying that probably the instsec.dll is triggered by ANY of the three mentioned .dll's.

You are saying that it is triggered by "rsaenh.dll" ONLY.

But actually you tried "rsaenh.dll" ONLY.

I mean, we have no evidence that if INSTEAD of "rsaenh.dll", you had tried with "rsaenhs.dll" ONLY (OR with "schannel.dll" ONLY) you wouldn't have had the same result. :unsure:

"Final" statement should be:

the instsec.dll is probably triggered by any of the three .dll's:

  • rsaenhs.dll
  • rsaenh.dll
  • schannel.dll
of the above, jds tested successfully #2 ONLY, thus proving that what you need to trigger the patching is an updated "rsaenh.dll".
No tests were performed with the other two .dll's.


jaclaz

#48
jds

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@jds
Yep, we are saying the same thing, only a dfferent one. :w00t:

I am saying that probably the instsec.dll is triggered by ANY of the three mentioned .dll's.

You are saying that it is triggered by "rsaenh.dll" ONLY.

Hi jaclaz,

No, I am not saying that. I'm simply saying that "rsaenh.dll" is sufficient.

We are actually in agreement.

Joe.

PS. BTW, I did a minor edit earlier, I had written "first and second", which obviously should have been "first and third".

#49
MDGx

MDGx

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In the near future I'll compile I have compiled an Iexpress installer for modded secur32.dll 4.10.2228 to be installed after ADS client.
Enjoy. ;)
[tx to dencorso who alerted me about this new fix!]

HTH

#50
jds

jds

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I've just discovered another 128 bit update, this one's for Outlook 2000 :
http://www.microsoft...s.aspx?id=17576

It says it's for Outlook 2000 SR1, I have Outlook 2000 SP3, yet the DLL in this update (exchcsp.dll) was newer than mine. Basically, you run the update, wait a couple of seconds, then reboot (no dialogue is produced, so you're left wondering what to do).

Joe.




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