Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble

MSFN is made available via donations, subscriptions and advertising revenue. The use of ad-blocking software hurts the site. Please disable ad-blocking software or set an exception for MSFN. Alternatively, register and become a site sponsor/subscriber and ads will be disabled automatically. 

Multibooter

Create a bootable CD/DVD from a set of floppies

Recommended Posts

Multibooter    0
For SATA you need gcdrom.sys... http://sourceforge.net/projects/cdromdosdrv/
Unfortunately it didn't work, neither on my old Inspiron laptop (old IDE burners) nor on my dual-core desktop (more recent IDE and SATA burners). When booting I always got the msg:

Starting Windows 95...

GCDROM DOS Driver v2.4, 2-6-2007

Driver name is "MSCD000".

No CD-ROM drive to use; GCDROM not loaded!....

The description .... at http://sourceforge.net/projects/cdromdosdrv/ states:

Operating System: 32-bit MS Windows (NT/2000/XP)

It's the BIOS settings. In the AMIBIOS v2.53 of the Asus P5PE-VM motherboard in my dual-core desktop I have selected the following setting:

-> Main -> IDE Configuration -> Compatible Mode ["when Legacy OS (i.e. Win Me, 98, NT 4.0, MS-DOS) is used"]

As IDE Port Settings I have selected "Primary P-ATA +S-ATA"

In this Compatible Mode the bootable DVD with the gcdrom.sys driver does not boot, while the DVD with the Panasonic driver does boot fine. :yes:

The alternative BIOS setting is "Enhanced Mode" ["when Native OS (i.e.Win2000, WinXP) is used"]

With the Enhanced Mode setting the gcdrom.sys works fine, the bootable DVD loads fine and both A: and Y: ( the application part on the bootable DVD) are accessible.

The "Enhanced Mode", however, doesn't work for me with Win98, in contrast to the "Compatible Mode".

The main use of gcdrom.sys seems to be for computers which can only run WinXP or higher.

Edited by Multibooter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LoneCrusader    95

I doubt you'll get it to work. The people at V-Communications were obsessed with copy-protection and created a hard-to-pierce black box. The installation CD of v9 has directory levels nested to the maximum to make it harder to create an installation source. Old v5 (2000) came on a floppy, and the original floppy was modified during installation with the boot record of the HDD, so after installation your original floppy was not a virgin anymore. I always installed from a dcf copy of the original floppy. Who knows what traps they built into the installation source. Nevertheless, System Commander is great, it works fine for me.

Here's a little more detail on what I've done so far with System Commander / Partition Commander.

I have the full version of System Commander 8 which of course comes with Partition Commander 8 "built in" to it somehow, and I have mainly been using it the past few years. But I also remembered that I have the full version of Partition Commander 9 which comes with "System Commander Personal Edition" or something like that, I assume that it is some "cut-down" version of SC.

My main goals were:

1) to be able to run Partition Commander (8 or 9) from my DVD for setting up hard drives

2) be able to use the DVD to re-Enable System Commander's MBR after installing another OS. (SCIN.EXE)

I am content to keep using the SC CD to install it inside Windows if I must.

I experimented some with files from the SC8 restart utility disks, but not extensively. I plan to return to that when I have some time to spend on it. Then I tried to figure out which files were required from the PC9 CD to run it in DOS, I made some headway but I stopped, now I don't remember why. I will revisit my notes on it.

Then I hit on the idea of extracting the boot images from both the SC8 and PC9 CD's, I thought their contents might shed some light on what was required for DOS use, as they load using 2.88MB DOS Floppy El Torito emulation.

I used MagicISO to extract the boot images of both disks, and then extracted the contents of each into a folder and added them to my DVD. The AUTOEXEC.BAT files of both are useless once extracted, they do not operate properly when called from DOS, even if renamed to something else, and I tried editing them and that was unsuccessful as well.

However, it is possible to call the utilities directly. Partition Commander 9's PCSTART.EXE functions perfectly when run from in the folder, and it's mouse driver is built in so one does not have to load a DOS mouse driver first.

I did get an error when I tried to run System Commander 8's SCSTART.EXE, but I do not recall exactly what it said at the moment. It did not crash the program, just showed up on screen. I was focused on something else when it happened, so I reverted to using PC9 for that particular task. I have not investigated further yet.

Edited by LoneCrusader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cdob    11
Using superfloppies needs to be tested AFAIK.

El Torito specs http://download.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/specscdrom.pdf

In the case of a floppy simulation the geometry is well known and defined as follows:

Size Tracks x Heads x Sectors

1.44 Meg 50 x 2 x 12

2.88 Meg 50 x 2 x 24

1.2 Meg 50 x 2 x 0F

Idea: The BIOS use fixed heads and sectors at floppy emulation.

Tracks are not limited to floppy 0x50, hard disk numbers are possible.

AND there is always the hybrid CD methods.

See here for some reference:

This mentiones menuetos http://www.menuetos.net/cdboot.htm

Sector 19 from file isohdr contain a 1.44 floppy emulation boot entry.

To set 2.88 floppy emulation goto address 0x9820 and change 0x88 0x02 to 0x88 0x03

Create a 36mb floppy image floppy36.IMA (36 sectors, 2 heads, 1024 tracks).

Connect files

copy /b ISOhdr+floppy36.IMA floppy36.iso

Or build a ISO header file using debug < debug288.txt

f 0 L 9000 0

e 7900 01

e 791C AA 55 55 AA 88 03 00 00 00 00 01 00 12

e 8100 01,"CD001",01

e 8128 "FLOPPY36"

e 8900 00,"CD001",01,"EL TORITO SPECIFICATION"

e 8947 0F

n ISOHDR288.iso

rcx

9000

w

q

To connect files: copy /b ISOHDR288.iso+floppy36.IMA floppy36.iso

If you like to add addional files to CD:

Run ImgBurn, build a hard disk emulation ISO image, add 36mb floppy image.

Adjust boot catalog to floppy emulation: 0x88 0x04 to 0x88 0x03

Or adjust a appplication to 36mb floppy image

--- cdrtools-3.00/mkisofs/eltorito.c.orig 2009-11-25 20:36:28.000000000 +0100

+++ cdrtools-3.00/mkisofs/eltorito.c 2010-11-19 12:34:56.0000000 +0100

@@ -481,6 +481,12 @@

if (verbose > 0)

fprintf(stderr, "Emulating a 2880 kB floppy\n");

+ /* fake 36 MB Floppy Image : 1024 Tracks, 2 Heads, 36 Sectors per track */

+ } else if (nsectors == 73728) {

+ boot_desc_entry->boot_media[0] = EL_TORITO_MEDIA_288FLOP;

+ if (verbose > 0)

+ fprintf(stderr, "Emulating a fake 2880 kB / 36 MB floppy\n");

+

} else if (nsectors == 2400) {

boot_desc_entry->boot_media[0] = EL_TORITO_MEDIA_12FLOP;

if (verbose > 0)

I cannot see why it shouldn't be possible to burn a HD-like ZIP as HD-emulation CD.

El Torito specs http://download.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/specscdrom.pdf

Hard Disk images may only have 1 partition in the partition table and it must be the first entry.

Doesn't use a HD-like ZIP fourth partition table entry?

Contrary fourth entry may be first entry, partition count may be reversed.

BIOS behaviour is unclear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jaclaz    927
I cannot see why it shouldn't be possible to burn a HD-like ZIP as HD-emulation CD.

El Torito specs http://download.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/specscdrom.pdf

Hard Disk images may only have 1 partition in the partition table and it must be the first entry.

Doesn't use a HD-like ZIP fourth partition table entry?

Contrary fourth entry may be first entry, partition count may be reversed.

BIOS behaviour is unclear.

Yep :), but writing the 4th entry to 1st one (or if you prefer converting a ZIP-like to HD-like) should be trivial. ;)

The "worst" part is that are seemingly TWO ZIP standards, one for a "partitioned drive" with MBR, and one for "superfloppy". (see given reference)

WHICH kind are the original ZIP disks we are talking about?

Remember that geometry is n/64/32, and this *may* create another possible incompatibility. :unsure:

Maybe, using the "makebootfat" approach one could (still shifting the entry - if actually needed) convert also "superfloppy" ZUP disks to HD-like. :unsure:

OT :ph34r:, but as always not that much, about the DEBUG script, with the obvious exception of the peeps still running 9x systems only, and of those running Vista :ph34r: and later, someone may find this little batch of use:

http://www.forensicfocus.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4805

(or the nice little GUI app by pwakely)

I simply CANNOT stand DEBUG scripts, they are UNreadable to my eyes. :blushing:

jaclaz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cdob    11
Yep :), but writing the 4th entry to 1st one (or if you prefer converting a ZIP-like to HD-like) should be trivial. ;)
This turns a zip disk to a non zip disk.
The "worst" part is that are seemingly TWO ZIP standards, one for a "partitioned drive" with MBR, and one for "superfloppy". (see given reference)
I understand reference:

There is one 100 MB zip disk. (250 MB ignored so far)

The same disk can be read different, the read drive makes the difference.

Let's investigate:

Given a hard disk zip100.vmdk

createType="monolithicFlat"

RW 196608 FLAT "zip100.dsk" 0

ddb.adapterType = "ide"

ddb.geometry.sectors = "32"

ddb.geometry.heads = "64"

ddb.geometry.cylinders = "96"

ddb.virtualHWVersion = "3"

El Torito hard disk emulation and VMWare Player 3:

fourth partition table entry used, first blank:

Booting fails.

black screen, fixed cursor at upper left corner

equal first and fourth partition table entry:

Booting fails.

MBR error message: Multiple active partitions

first and fourth partition table entry used, only first active:

Dos 7 does boot.

first partition table entry used, fourth blank

Dos 7 does boot.

El Torito Floppy boot:

The same ISO file used.

Hard disk image starts at DVD LBA 18.

32 hard disk sectors refers to 8 DVD sectors.

Hence partition starts at DVD LBA 26.

Boot catalog changed to 2.88 floppy and LBA adjusted:

88 04 00 00 00 00 01 00 12

88 03 00 00 00 00 01 00 1A

Booting fails, error message from partition boot code:

Disk I/O error

Replace the disk, and then press any key

A 2.88 floppy geometry dosn't match a zip geometry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jaclaz    927

Yes and no.

Yes, the ZIP image will become a HD image with same geometry, but it will be perfectly eqivalent in behaviour.

In case of restoring back to real ZIP disk one "shifts back" first entry to fourth.

And no, from what what I understand :unsure: from the link::

http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/zip/zip-1.html

  • if you "initialize" a ZIP disk on a "old style" ATAPI drive (or in a "latest" ATAPI 3, or in corresponding SCSI/USB versions) , it will get a partition table
  • if you "initialize" a ZIP disk on a ATAPI 2 drive (or in corresponding SCSI/USB versions) with the ARMD jumper set, first 32 sectors are NOT accessibe and it will get NOT a partition table

But it's not entirely clear, see the "horrors" DOC:

http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/zip/atapi2.txt

It is not clear if the actual IOMEGA utility acesses and writes the MBR nonetheless.

In any case, when you image a ZIP through an ATAPI with ARMD jumper ON, first 32 sectors will not be imaged:

When the drive is configured in the Drive A: mode:

- The first 32 LBS'a of the disk are not accessible

(i.e., the drive adds 32 to all LBA's specified in all

commands).

One could verify the size of the image, and if 32 sectors are missing, add them and build on the fly a MBR in order to make a "standard" ZIP image.

I jhave NO idea if the PBR would sport "32" as "sectors before" or not. :unsure:

jaclaz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cdob    11

This leads to question:

Given a superfloppy image: How to create a hard disk image?

Let's investigate further.

I haven't found a reliable zip disk example, relating MBR and partition boot code.

Relating previous links, confusing examples are possible.

manufacturer formated zip disk, reading changed by firmware

one disk with a MBR, SCSI zip drive read a hard disk and a ATAPI drive read a superfloppy

Without real hardware access, I'll ignore zip disk so far.

As for a superfloppy image LS120.

There are manufacturer hints 240_dd.exe

http://panasonic.co.jp/phc/support/oem/lkm/dl.html

ftp://ftp.ctxeurope.com/drivers/notebook/2300p/ls120/nt40/fmtdata.ini

fmtdata.ini

[FormatUHD]

Default = 1

MediaType = 0x31

Display = 3.5inch, 120MB, 512byte/sec

DataFile = uhddata.bin

Cylinders = 963

Heads = 8

ByteSector = 512

SectorTrack = 32

BootSector = 1

Fat = 2

SectorFat = 241

Entry = 512

ByteEntry = 32

DataFile uhddata.bin contains a MSDOS boot sector image:

Sectors per track: 32

Number of heads: 8

Large sectors: 246528

Media type: 0xF0

Hidden sectors: 0x00

Disk number: 0x00

System ID: FAT16

Large sectors, hidden sectors, media type and disk number indicates a superfloppy image too.

How to convert a given floppy image to a hard disk image?

One appraoch: create a MBR and insert floppy image at LBA 32

Preparations:

Create a file ls120.ima 126222336 bytes, dd file uhddata.bin

Mount ls120.ima, copy dos files, unmount

Testing superfloppy image usingt grub4dos menu.lst


title LS120
map /ls120.ima (fd0)
map --hook
root (fd0)
chainloader +1

DOS does boot.

Include this superfloppy image to a hard disk image.

One cylinder is added.

MBR boot code used from syslinux mbr.bin. That's 440 bytes.

Create a empty file 15944.dat size 15944 bytes.

copy /b mbr.bin+15944.dat+ls120.ima ls120.dsk

Set partition table 1 : MBR offset 0x1BE to 0x1CD

80 01 01 00 0E 07 E0 C3 20 00 00 00 E0 C3 03 00

Set magic bytes 55 AA at MBR offset 0x1FE to 0x1FF

Try hard disk image at QEMU

qemu.exe -L . -m 128 -boot c -hda LS120.dsk -hdachs 964,8,32

Booting fails, partition error

Disk I/O error

Replace the disk, and then press any key

Next partition boot sector changed:

Set offset 0x15 to 0xF8

Set offset 0x1C to 0x20

Set offset 0x24 to 0x80

DOS 7 does boot.

Add this hard disk image to a El Torito hard disk emulation CD.

DOS 7 does boot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jaclaz    927

Time again to take out of the drawer the makebootfat "special" dual-mode MBR? :unsure:

As I see it that would be the fastest. :thumbup

Back to ZIP:

As said I do have a USB ZIP disk drive - latest 750 Mb model AND a USB 100 ZIP disk drive AND a few original 100 Mb disks AND a few original 250 Mb disks (Mac formatted :w00t:)

I also have a Scsi 100 ZIP drive (which I cannot use/connect easily as I would need to setup a PC with a SCSI card) and a couple of ATAPI 100 ones - one with the ARMD jumper and one without, BUT unfortunately BOTH suffering from unspecified hardware failure.

I have just the 750 drive handy right now.

The 250 NEW Mac formatted disks have "strange" data in first sector (not surprisingly).

From the little I understand they are "superfloppy".

The drive appears in Disk Management just like any USB non-fixed device, i.e. like one of the USB connected card readers that our friend ilko so much like ;) as they tend to force him review once again drive numbering in the install from USB thingy.

Exactly as them, if I format it, (FAT16 - Quick Format) I get a superfloppy, with a "normal" 63/255 geometry, with 489532 dec sectors.

Exactly as them, if I write to it a MBR with some values, I get it partitioned.

A "pristine" ZIP 100 "IBM compatible" (which at the moment I dare not experiment with) has an IOMEGA MBR code and the known single entry in 4th place with 64/32 geometry:

#0|00|00|0|0|0|00|00|00||00|0

#1|00|00|0|0|0|00|00|00||00|0

#2|00|00|0|0|0|00|00|00||00|0

#3|06|80|0|1|1|95|63|32||32|196576

at sector 32 there is a non-bootable PBR.

I am attaching the MBR and PBR.

Let me know if you need any other info (among the ones I can possibly gather from the above description of what I have available).

If you have nice ideas, tell me I presume after New Year I could get the 100 SCSI drive mounting it on a DOS/NT 4.00 machine and perform further tests, if needed.

I have no "original" and "pristine" IBM compatible 250 disks and none (of *any* kind) 750 ones, though.

jaclaz

ZIP_disks.zip

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dencorso    530
Using superfloppies needs to be tested AFAIK.

reanimatolog sort of solved that one back in 2003... :whistle:

Please find attached a CD that boots from a 700MB superfloppy.

Its boot sector is a 4 sector no emulation file called bcdwboot.bin.

The 2004 version of it is in the v. 1.50Z zip file. The .iso with the 700 MB sfloppy has the 2003 version.

BCDW 1.50Z, by reanimatolog, can boot CDs from all sorts of superfloppy images. He also offers some such images here. There's a newer (or less old) version of BCDW,v2.01a, but I've never used this one. I've also attached reanimatolog's files here, since they are freeware and may disappear (the German mirror already is no more).

fd700000_iso.zip

bcdw150z_en.zip

bcdw-2.0a1.zip

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Multibooter    0

-> add the following 2 lines at the end of config.sys:

DEVICE=A:\ATAPIMGR.SYS

DEVICE=A:\SR_ASPI.SYS /D:MSCD000 /C35

... The possibly generic DOS DVD driver [sR_ASPI.SYS] is by Panasonic and can be downloaded from: http://members.driverguide.com/driver/detail.php?driverid=42982

Files from driverguide.com can now be obtained only with a downloader, which is identified by Kaspersky as riskware and installs a toolbar in Firefox and Internet Explorer.

SR_ASPI.SYS can be extracted from 58x_dos.exe, which can be downloaded directly from http://panasonic.jp/com/int_drive/archive/driver/58x_dos.exe The referring Panasonic download page is http://panasonic.jp/com/int_drive/support/info_dd2.html Excellent generic DVD/CD-ROM driver for DOS with the /C35 switch. It's part of my config.sys when booting into DOS.

One problem of SR_ASPI.SYS is, however, that it canNOT access files on a DVD under DOS if the filenames contain lower case, although the file and directory names are displayed Ok. So when creating a DVD for DOS, e.g. with UltraISO, one should de-select "Allow lower case"

Edited by Multibooter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dencorso    530

You can also overcome the lower case letters issue by using SHSUCDX, instead of MSCDEX. ;)

Unless you don't need MSCDEX with SR_ASPI.SYS, then I'm simply wrong.

In the above I assumed implicitly that your stack is ATAPIMGR.SYS -> SR_ASPI.SYS -> MSCDEX.EXE...

if so, what you're seeing is a known MSCDEX limitation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jaclaz    927

Yep :), this is corresponding to the settings of --iso-level in mkisofs (and as well those of -relaxed-filenames -allow-lowercase -allow-multidot -no-iso-translate and -U

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9660

http://linux.about.com/library/cmd/blcmdl8_mkisofs.htm

See also (just for the record):

page__st__39

MSCDEX wants "upper case" filenames only, SHSUCDX allows for lowercase too.

jaclaz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Multibooter    0
You can also overcome the lower case letters issue by using SHSUCDX, instead of MSCDEX. ;)
Thanks dencorso, SHCDX33E.COM works fine with SR_ASPI.SYS, a DVD containing lower-case filenames could now be accessed under DOS. I will replace MSCDEX with SHCDX33E.COM in the boot configurations on my computers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
submix8c    89

Just (re-)noticed this thread (jaclaz' great posts about MKISOFS) and have to interject about DriverGuide - NOPE! The Downloader don't "secretly" do anything - you must be getting the "full-blown" one. The only thing I ever get is to have to solve a "word-game" to get a single file, which then downloads the single requested file to wherever I select. YES, you may OPTIONALLY be bugged (deselect it, right?), but I have NEVER gotten what you claim - repeat NEVER!

Edit - and I've not yet tried this method for SATA-connected but I believe that "somewhere on MSFN" I specified "how-to" for them (DELL Dimension E521) with the specified file links. Here is the thread -

Edited by submix8c

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×