[jaclaz]

Yes and no.

Yes, the ZIP image will become a HD image with same geometry, but it will be perfectly eqivalent in behaviour.
In case of restoring back to real ZIP disk one "shifts back" first entry to fourth.

And no, from what what I understand from the link::
http://www.win.tue.n.../zip/zip-1.html

• if you "initialize" a ZIP disk on a "old style" ATAPI drive (or in a "latest" ATAPI 3, or in corresponding SCSI/USB versions) , it will get a partition table
  
• if you "initialize" a ZIP disk on a ATAPI 2 drive (or in corresponding SCSI/USB versions) with the ARMD jumper set, first 32 sectors are NOT accessibe and it will get NOT a partition table

But it's not entirely clear, see the "horrors" DOC:
http://www.win.tue.n.../zip/atapi2.txt
It is not clear if the actual IOMEGA utility acesses and writes the MBR nonetheless.

In any case, when you image a ZIP through an ATAPI with ARMD jumper ON, first 32 sectors will not be imaged:

Quote

When the drive is configured in the Drive A: mode:

- The first 32 LBS'a of the disk are not accessible
(i.e., the drive adds 32 to all LBA's specified in all
commands).

One could verify the size of the image, and if 32 sectors are missing, add them and build on the fly a MBR in order to make a "standard" ZIP image.
I jhave NO idea if the PBR would sport "32" as "sectors before" or not.

jaclaz

[cdob]

This leads to question:
Given a superfloppy image: How to create a hard disk image?

Let's investigate further.

I haven't found a reliable zip disk example, relating MBR and partition boot code.
Relating previous links, confusing examples are possible.
manufacturer formated zip disk, reading changed by firmware
one disk with a MBR, SCSI zip drive read a hard disk and a ATAPI drive read a superfloppy
Without real hardware access, I'll ignore zip disk so far.

As for a superfloppy image LS120.
There are manufacturer hints 240_dd.exe
http://panasonic.co....oem/lkm/dl.html
ftp://ftp.ctxeurope....t40/fmtdata.ini

fmtdata.ini

Quote

[FormatUHD]
Default = 1
MediaType = 0x31
Display = 3.5inch, 120MB, 512byte/sec
DataFile = uhddata.bin
Cylinders = 963
Heads = 8
ByteSector = 512
SectorTrack = 32
BootSector = 1
Fat = 2
SectorFat = 241
Entry = 512
ByteEntry = 32

DataFile uhddata.bin contains a MSDOS boot sector image:
Sectors per track: 32
Number of heads: 8
Large sectors: 246528
Media type: 0xF0
Hidden sectors: 0x00
Disk number: 0x00
System ID: FAT16

Large sectors, hidden sectors, media type and disk number indicates a superfloppy image too.

How to convert a given floppy image to a hard disk image?
One appraoch: create a MBR and insert floppy image at LBA 32

Preparations:
Create a file ls120.ima 126222336 bytes, dd file uhddata.bin
Mount ls120.ima, copy dos files, unmount

Testing superfloppy image usingt grub4dos menu.lst

title LS120
map /ls120.ima (fd0)
map --hook
root (fd0)
chainloader +1

DOS does boot.

Include this superfloppy image to a hard disk image.
One cylinder is added.

MBR boot code used from syslinux mbr.bin. That's 440 bytes.
Create a empty file 15944.dat size 15944 bytes.
copy /b mbr.bin+15944.dat+ls120.ima ls120.dsk

Set partition table 1 : MBR offset 0x1BE to 0x1CD
80 01 01 00 0E 07 E0 C3 20 00 00 00 E0 C3 03 00

Set magic bytes 55 AA at MBR offset 0x1FE to 0x1FF

Try hard disk image at QEMU

qemu.exe -L . -m 128 -boot c -hda LS120.dsk -hdachs 964,8,32

Booting fails, partition error

Quote

Disk I/O error
Replace the disk, and then press any key

Next partition boot sector changed:
Set offset 0x15 to 0xF8
Set offset 0x1C to 0x20
Set offset 0x24 to 0x80

DOS 7 does boot.

Add this hard disk image to a El Torito hard disk emulation CD.
DOS 7 does boot.

[jaclaz]

Time again to take out of the drawer the makebootfat "special" dual-mode MBR?

As I see it that would be the fastest.

Back to ZIP:
As said I do have a USB ZIP disk drive - latest 750 Mb model AND a USB 100 ZIP disk drive AND a few original 100 Mb disks AND a few original 250 Mb disks (Mac formatted )
I also have a Scsi 100 ZIP drive (which I cannot use/connect easily as I would need to setup a PC with a SCSI card) and a couple of ATAPI 100 ones - one with the ARMD jumper and one without, BUT unfortunately BOTH suffering from unspecified hardware failure.

I have just the 750 drive handy right now.

The 250 NEW Mac formatted disks have "strange" data in first sector (not surprisingly).
From the little I understand they are "superfloppy".
The drive appears in Disk Management just like any USB non-fixed device, i.e. like one of the USB connected card readers that our friend ilko so much like as they tend to force him review once again drive numbering in the install from USB thingy.
Exactly as them, if I format it, (FAT16 - Quick Format) I get a superfloppy, with a "normal" 63/255 geometry, with 489532 dec sectors.
Exactly as them, if I write to it a MBR with some values, I get it partitioned.

A "pristine" ZIP 100 "IBM compatible" (which at the moment I dare not experiment with) has an IOMEGA MBR code and the known single entry in 4th place with 64/32 geometry:

Quote

#0|00|00|0|0|0|00|00|00||00|0
#1|00|00|0|0|0|00|00|00||00|0
#2|00|00|0|0|0|00|00|00||00|0
#3|06|80|0|1|1|95|63|32||32|196576

at sector 32 there is a non-bootable PBR.

I am attaching the MBR and PBR.

Let me know if you need any other info (among the ones I can possibly gather from the above description of what I have available).
If you have nice ideas, tell me I presume after New Year I could get the 100 SCSI drive mounting it on a DOS/NT 4.00 machine and perform further tests, if needed.

I have no "original" and "pristine" IBM compatible 250 disks and none (of *any* kind) 750 ones, though.

jaclaz

Attached File(s)

•  ZIP_disks.zip (941bytes)
  Number of downloads: 3

[dencorso]

jaclaz, on 15 November 2010 - 04:26 PM, said:

Using superfloppies needs to be tested AFAIK.

reanimatolog sort of solved that one back in 2003...
Please find attached a CD that boots from a 700MB superfloppy.
Its boot sector is a 4 sector no emulation file called bcdwboot.bin.
The 2004 version of it is in the v. 1.50Z zip file. The .iso with the 700 MB sfloppy has the 2003 version.

BCDW 1.50Z, by reanimatolog, can boot CDs from all sorts of superfloppy images. He also offers some such images here. There's a newer (or less old) version of BCDW,v2.01a, but I've never used this one. I've also attached reanimatolog's files here, since they are freeware and may disappear (the German mirror already is no more).

Attached File(s)

•  fd700000_iso.zip (111.07K)
  Number of downloads: 6
•  bcdw150z_en.zip (535.96K)
  Number of downloads: 5
•  bcdw-2.0a1.zip (236.22K)
  Number of downloads: 4

[Multibooter]

Multibooter, on 14 November 2010 - 10:14 PM, said:

-> add the following 2 lines at the end of config.sys:
DEVICE=A:\ATAPIMGR.SYS
DEVICE=A:\SR_ASPI.SYS /D:MSCD000 /C35
... The possibly generic DOS DVD driver [SR_ASPI.SYS] is by Panasonic and can be downloaded from: http://members.drive...?driverid=42982

Files from driverguide.com can now be obtained only with a downloader, which is identified by Kaspersky as riskware and installs a toolbar in Firefox and Internet Explorer.

SR_ASPI.SYS can be extracted from 58x_dos.exe, which can be downloaded directly from http://panasonic.jp/...ver/58x_dos.exe The referring Panasonic download page is http://panasonic.jp/...t/info_dd2.html Excellent generic DVD/CD-ROM driver for DOS with the /C35 switch. It's part of my config.sys when booting into DOS.

One problem of SR_ASPI.SYS is, however, that it canNOT access files on a DVD under DOS if the filenames contain lower case, although the file and directory names are displayed Ok. So when creating a DVD for DOS, e.g. with UltraISO, one should de-select "Allow lower case"

This post has been edited by Multibooter: 24 May 2011 - 11:25 PM

[dencorso]

You can also overcome the lower case letters issue by using SHSUCDX, instead of MSCDEX.
Unless you don't need MSCDEX with SR_ASPI.SYS, then I'm simply wrong.
In the above I assumed implicitly that your stack is ATAPIMGR.SYS -> SR_ASPI.SYS -> MSCDEX.EXE...
if so, what you're seeing is a known MSCDEX limitation.

[jaclaz]

Yep , this is corresponding to the settings of --iso-level in mkisofs (and as well those of -relaxed-filenames -allow-lowercase -allow-multidot -no-iso-translate and -U
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9660
http://linux.about.c...dl8_mkisofs.htm

See also (just for the record):
http://www.msfn.org/...but-not-on-dvd/
http://www.msfn.org/...vd/page__st__39

MSCDEX wants "upper case" filenames only, SHSUCDX allows for lowercase too.

jaclaz

[Multibooter]

dencorso, on 24 May 2011 - 11:36 PM, said:

You can also overcome the lower case letters issue by using SHSUCDX, instead of MSCDEX.

Thanks dencorso, SHCDX33E.COM works fine with SR_ASPI.SYS, a DVD containing lower-case filenames could now be accessed under DOS. I will replace MSCDEX with SHCDX33E.COM in the boot configurations on my computers.

[jaclaz]

Cross-posting to a new build of mkisofs :
http://cdob.reboot.pro/
http://cdob.reboot.p...d.ru-mkisofs.7z
created by cdob with - among some others - the ability to use "0x3 Floppy images up to 1024 cylinders, ie. 36 Mb", see also:
http://www.msfn.org/...oppy-emulation/

http://reboot.pro/to...otdvd/?p=169473

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 17 March 2013 - 06:50 AM

[submix8c]

Just (re-)noticed this thread (jaclaz' great posts about MKISOFS) and have to interject about DriverGuide - NOPE! The Downloader don't "secretly" do anything - you must be getting the "full-blown" one. The only thing I ever get is to have to solve a "word-game" to get a single file, which then downloads the single requested file to wherever I select. YES, you may OPTIONALLY be bugged (deselect it, right?), but I have NEVER gotten what you claim - repeat NEVER!

Edit - and I've not yet tried this method for SATA-connected but I believe that "somewhere on MSFN" I specified "how-to" for them (DELL Dimension E521) with the specified file links. Here is the thread -
http://www.msfn.org/...ew-sata-driver/

This post has been edited by submix8c: 17 March 2013 - 09:25 AM

[jaclaz]

submix8c, on 17 March 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Just (re-)noticed this thread (jaclaz' great posts about MKISOFS) and have to interject about DriverGuide - NOPE! The Downloader don't "secretly" do anything - you must be getting the "full-blown" one. The only thing I ever get is to have to solve a "word-game" to get a single file, which then downloads the single requested file to wherever I select. YES, you may OPTIONALLY be bugged (deselect it, right?), but I have NEVER gotten what you claim - repeat NEVER!

Seemingly that option is given in exchange for a mere US$ 2.99 for the single download or just US$ 14.95 for a "premium" membership :

Quote

DriverGuide.com - Download Choice
Direct download is available only to our Premium Members. Free members are required to use our DriverGuide installer or consider these Premium options:

Buy this direct download for $2.99 using your PayPal account.

Buy a Premium Membership now and download this and other drivers, plus get support and eliminate all ads! (learn more) Limited Half Price Special Offer!
Today's Sale Price:
$29.95 $14.95
You Save: $15.00
Better Business Bureau


Download using DriverGuide's installer and get the driver for Free.

Clicking on "access" I was given a CAPTCHA and then the "Downloader" (an executabe called setup_42982.exe, sized 1,184,968 byte) started downloading.

jaclaz

[submix8c]

Yep, that's the one AND the method! Solve the "Captcha", get a SETUP_nnnn.EXE, run it, and it downloads said file. I do use Driverguide occasionally...

"Download Now" button + "Use DriverGuide's Installer" ticked = "Captcha" = Downloaded "Installer" (that installs NOTHING without your explicit consent).

Run it, UNTICK anything that has Tickmark Selections, DECLINE any "offers", and the file downloads - nothing is installed at all.

Found it in -
C:\Documents and Settings\<MyUserID>\My Documents\Downloads
as filename "Mats***aUJDA310.ZIP"... (WHOOPS! "bad word" filter!!!)
Not really sure of the Foldername for Win9x.

You just have to know how to "work around" the crapware...

edit - see my above edited post for link to SATA topic.

This post has been edited by submix8c: 17 March 2013 - 09:46 AM

[jaclaz]

submix8c, on 17 March 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Yep, that's the one AND the method! Solve the "Captcha", get a SETUP_nnnn.EXE, run it, and it downloads said file. I do use Driverguide occasionally...

"Download Now" button + "Use DriverGuide's Installer" ticked = "Captcha" = Downloaded "Installer" (that installs NOTHING without your explicit consent).

Run it, UNTICK anything that has Tickmark Selections, DECLINE any "offers", and the file downloads - nothing is installed at all.

Well, your previous post was partially (please read as COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY) deceiving

If you are not a member/ you are not willing to pay for the download, downloading an installer is NEEDED and some antivirus programs may report the .exe as infected, to the extent that once you resolve the CAPTCHA you get this:

Quote

Download automatically starting in 5 seconds, or to manually initiate the download, click here.
The setup file you are downloading is certified safe, tested by class-leading virus and malware scanners.

A few anti-virus software products falsely report our installer as suspicious. We encourage you to scan our download at VirusTotal, a free, independent site which tests against all major anti-virus products.

Our setup file may include safe and purely optional advertising offers which you are free to decline. We only work with trusted partners.

Of course the decision to "opt-out" from the crap ads/toolbars (or whatever, I didn't, don't and will not run that crap installer/downloader) is up to the user, BUT the facts are (only to be clear):

• a downloader/installer MUST be downloaded
  
• an antivirus program MAY mark it as a virus
  
• you MUST anyway execute the dowloaded executable
  
• you MAY opt out from the whatever it does
  
• there are NO guarantees - apart the word from the good DriverGuide guys - that it doesn't do anything malicious, nagging, tracking or whatever

jaclaz

[submix8c]

OK, agreed... I am, however, a "free" member and it makes nada.

1 - In this case, yes
2 - In this case, yes
3 - In this case, yes
4 - Unless you want the crapware, change that to MUST
5 - In this case, NO (at least for now) - I had just done it and absolutely NOTHING "changed" except I got said File

As far as being a "free member", you simply don't get a "downloader" and none of the "do you want to install/change/etc" stuff. The result is exactly the same in either case.

Side note - I will proceed to upload the "downloader" to VirusTotal. Symantec (what I use) said (sic) "Nothing bad found".

Here are the results -
https://www.virustot...sis/1363544895/
Be aware that REAL "Trojans" don't allow an opportunity to "opt-out"...
P.S. - Kaspersky in this case found nothing.
3 out of the 4

Quote

InstallCore is an advertising module that displays targeted advertising material.

Well, YES, so true! Opt-out "No Thanks" - case closed.

Multibooter said this

Quote

identified by Kaspersky as riskware and installs a toolbar in Firefox and Internet Explorer.

I vehemently refute that as I have clearly shown/proven. There is WAAAAY too many "freebies" out there that have this stuff in it. Anyone who clicks "Next" without PAYING ATTENTION deserves the stupid toolbars ( like my daughter used to ).

Paranoid much? Well, YES, but I've used DriverGuide since 1998... In this case the paranoia is waaaay overblown!

At any rate, Multibooter found an alternative/direct download.

This post has been edited by submix8c: 17 March 2013 - 12:40 PM

[jaclaz]

submix8c, on 17 March 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Multibooter said this

Quote

identified by Kaspersky as riskware and installs a toolbar in Firefox and Internet Explorer.

I vehemently refute that as I have clearly shown/proven. There is WAAAAY too many "freebies" out there that have this stuff in it. Anyone who clicks "Next" without PAYING ATTENTION deserves the stupid toolbars ( like my daughter used to ).

Maybe (please read as most probably) when Multibooter posted that info (Posted 25 May 2011 ) the kaspersky definitions AT THAT TIME did mark it as "riskware".
And as well, it is very possible that what he posted was relative to what the downloader would do (if not opted out), i.e. describing the "capabilities" of the downloader.

jaclaz

[Drugwash]

Please pardon my intrusion: I will NEVER EVER use ANY kind of installer, no matter where it comes from and no matter who guarantees for it. I do not trust anybody unless it's open-source.

I used to be a free member at Driver-Guide, years ago. Ever since they changed their ways, I dropped that service forever. When M$ changed their privacy policy, I removed my Hotmail/Live account. When Google changed their privacy policy, I stopped using ALL Google services. I don't trust Adobe either and since they don't provide clear links to full Flash kits, I disabled auto-update for that thing too. Simple as that!

<rant>
I mean, where the [...] are those good ol' links that anyone could get their software from, by a simple click? Nowadays it's all about installers that know better than the humans, everything is obfuscated, you can't get a full install kit for anything if you need it on another machine without Internet connection - what has become of this world?! Are we all criminals or are we all that stupid that we can't be trusted with installing a simple thing on our OWN computers?
</rant>

[jaclaz]

Drugwash, on 20 March 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

<rant>
I mean, where the [...] are those good ol' links that anyone could get their software from, by a simple click? Nowadays it's all about installers that know better than the humans, everything is obfuscated, you can't get a full install kit for anything if you need it on another machine without Internet connection - what has become of this world?! Are we all criminals or are we all that stupid that we can't be trusted with installing a simple thing on our OWN computers?
</rant>

Yesterday's experience:

• brand new Verbatim external 2.5" 500 Gb USB 3.0 disk <- bought to make a sort of "backup" (actually disk images) to be sent phisically to another location
  
• very old install XP machine NOT connected to the internet since several years (no reasons to, simply used for office work)

As soon as you connect the USB disk, a FULL SCREEN menu comes out (Autoplay) with some basic info, thanking for having bought this nice product, etc., etc. (and besides being abnormally "slow", the thing hangs and you need Task Manager to get rid of it.
The (500 GB in size, I repeat) disk is formatted in a single FAT32 partition and has a few folders with "software" for Windows an Mac (OK), I decide to copy these folders to a local disk (just in case) and see (in the big FULL SCREEN thingy that I re-run to see the instructions) that a special formatting tool is among the tools provided.
The thingy is called Verbatim Hard Disk Formatter and is smartly named (actual .exe and referred to) as VHDformatter (just imagine how long will it take before you completely forget about the thing and believe it is a soecific tool for VHD images/files ) but all in all, still OK.
Thinking that it might be needed for *any* reason, I try running it, and the thingy reveals being some crappy Adobe based mix between a document, a web page and a PDF wrapping around (I presume) the built-in FORMAT command, however it doesn't work as (obviously) the whatever Adobe related components on that PC are outdated and wants to connect to the internet (which I have NOT available) to download the new ones.

Task Manager again, killed the stupid thingy, re-formatted as NTFS "normally", data saved, everything OK.

jaclaz

[Drugwash]

Quod Erat Demonstrandum. Thank you! I rest my case.

This post has been edited by Drugwash: 21 March 2013 - 10:20 AM

[submix8c]

(again O/T) ARGHHH! Just tried using an older Free Membership. Apparently, DriverGuide tracks the # of downloads and limits the direct downloads. Still.... seems to be a moot point. Opt out (like the "autorun" thingy). Seriously, nothing is "secretly hiding"...