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Issues on some machines with Small ISO method


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24 replies to this topic

#1
Compstuff2

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OK... I have a read as much as I could and I have spend hrs trying to get this to work but no luck so its time to ask for help lol... I have a a working DVD structure created with RyanVM and Driverpacks. I used a 16G USB and formatted it with a single NTFS partition (using the HDD option gives me a grub error when adding files). Laptop boots, loads initial files, reboots to start windows, then just hangs... what am I doing wrong?

Thanks in advance for your help...

Attached Files


Edited by Compstuff2, 10 August 2010 - 09:37 AM.



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#2
Compstuff2

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Can you elaborate a bit more on these:

using the HDD option gives me a grub error when adding files

Using what program when formatting? What options?

Using 1.0 beta6 with a corsair 16g USB: RMPrepUSB: Run CLEAN, then XP,NTFS,Boot as HDD, prep drive, all OK
Select USB, Select XP source files, GO = grubinst.exe could not find a Master Boot Record and partition table on the selected disk disk #1
I have attached the log

Attached Files



#3
Compstuff2

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Laptop boots, loads initial files, reboots to start windows, then just hangs

Does that mean that first part of Setup, the text mode/file copy stage works alright, but for the second part, the GUI mode it hangs at some point? When exactly? What do you see on the screen? What did you see right before that? Please be as detailed as possible in order to understand your issue.


Correct me if I am wrong but the install stages should be:

Textmode/txtsetup (blue screen)
inspect hardware
setup - load files
"starting windows message" - format drive - copy files
Restart #1
DriverPacks extraction
PE mode (colorful screen, displays T-39 countdown timer {ie "36 minutes remaining"}
Restart #2
GUI mode (GUIRunOnce, RunOnceEx, first-user load, desktop load)

What I get is your load screen with the setup options 1 or 2 choices, then it starts the load files, then "setup is starting windows", then a black screen with nothing and just hanging not reading USB or anything

Attached Files


Edited by Compstuff2, 10 August 2010 - 12:00 PM.


#4
cdob

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What I get is your load screen with the setup options 1 or 2 choices, then it starts the load files, then "setup is starting windows", then a black screen with nothing and just hanging not reading USB or anything

Windows XP setup dosn't like strange MBR. Read some Linux or manufacturer recovery partition may interfere.
Clean internal hard disk.

#5
Compstuff2

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What I get is your load screen with the setup options 1 or 2 choices, then it starts the load files, then "setup is starting windows", then a black screen with nothing and just hanging not reading USB or anything

Windows XP setup dosn't like strange MBR. Read some Linux or manufacturer recovery partition may interfere.
Clean internal hard disk.

Not sure I understand... are you saying to wipe the hard drive before the USB install?

#6
jaclaz

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Not sure I understand... are you saying to wipe the hard drive before the USB install?

No, it should be enough to restore the "normal" 2K/XP MBR CODE:
http://www.sysint.no...ting/mbrfix.htm
MbrFix /drive <num> fixmbr

But can you run it?

Otherwise you can wipe completely (still just the MBR) from within grub4dos, using the dd command and overwriting the MBR sector with any of the hidden ones (that should be 00's).

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 11 August 2010 - 12:25 AM.


#7
cdob

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No, it should be enough to restore the "normal" 2K/XP MBR CODE

Early setup may hang at strange MBR partition table.

"xp setup blank screen" is a general error.
This happens at XP install from CD, XP install from USB and PE 1 boot.

http://icrontic.com/...ead.php?t=39459
http://forums.techgu...en-booting.html
http://www.tomshardw...up-blank-screen

#8
jaclaz

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No, it should be enough to restore the "normal" 2K/XP MBR CODE

Early setup may hang at strange MBR partition table.

No prob. :)

MbrFix /drive <num> clean
But the question whether OP has aan actual NT OS in which to run the above remains valid.

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 11 August 2010 - 05:06 AM.


#9
Compstuff2

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I will blow out the MBR from the drive and try this but I'm not really understanding why this would be the issue... I can use the actual DVD and re-install this to the same system time after time after time with no errors so why would the USB made from that same DVD see a MBR problem?

#10
jaclaz

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I will blow out the MBR from the drive and try this but I'm not really understanding why this would be the issue... I can use the actual DVD and re-install this to the same system time after time after time with no errors so why would the USB made from that same DVD see a MBR problem?

You are mixing possibilities with certainties. :w00t:

The behaviour you described may be caused by the problematic MBR.
Which does not mean it is the one and only possible cause of this behaviour.
Running the setup from USB is similar but obviously not EXACTLY the same as running it from CD/DVD, so while it is possible that the problem is elsewhere, the fact that installing from CD/DVD works allright is a sign, but not enough to exclude this problem with setup and MBR's as a cause.

It is well possible that the problem is your motherboard BIOS or even somewhere else, notwithstanding the fact that these USB methods have worked for several thousands if not tens of thousands of people, from time to time something is found that creates the need for a bug fix or a bettering.

jaclaz

#11
Compstuff2

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Thanks for the reply jaclaz... I waited to perform quite a bit of testing before I responded back so here goes:

First off let me say I am new to this tool and forum but very much looking forward to working with it. I am an active participant in other tech forums and now hoping to develop this into my bag of tricks :)

I have lots of systems I do my installs on so I never really only test on a single unit and from this point on I will provide greater details in my posts. The current systems I have been testing on are all late model Dell laptops. Specifically:
Latitude E6400
Latitude E5410
Vostro 3700
Vostro a860
Vostro 1015

Additionally I always make sure I have the latest BIOS update on every system before I start testing. Currently I am getting mixed results:
Latitude E6400 - FAILS
Latitude E5410 - FAILS
Vostro 3700 - OK
Vostro a860 - OK
Vostro 1015 - FAILS

I am still testing and each drive has DBAN run on it before each test....I will report further... thanks

Edited by Compstuff2, 12 August 2010 - 12:59 PM.


#12
Compstuff2

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In my normal DVD install I use quite a few RunOnceEX items such as:

IF EXIST %CDROM%\Software\O2K3SP3\O2K3SP3.cmd REG ADD %KEY%\600 /VE /D "Office_2003" /f
IF EXIST %CDROM%\Software\O2K3SP3\O2K3SP3.cmd REG ADD %KEY%\600 /V 1 /D "%CDROM%\Software\O2K3SP3\O2K3SP3.cmd" /f

How do I handle this with a USB? Is there an environment variable I can use or another way to do this?

#13
jaclaz

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DBAN is definitely overkill.
At the most you have to write 00's to the MBR.

But wait a minute, are you running an (integrated/added/modified) source of some kind?

Can you try with a "vanilla" XP with SP 2 or SP3 integrated and NOTHING else but (if needed) mass storage drivers?

How do I handle this with a USB? Is there an environment variable I can use or another way to do this?

I'll keep this question for later. ;)

You can have a look at migrate.inf approach, in the meantime (google for keywords "migrate.inf cdob jaclaz" - without quotes)

jaclaz

#14
ilko_t

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My laptop is also Latitude E6400, BIOS A20 and vanila 2003 SP2 hung the same way with blank screen right after "Setup is starting Windows", in both IDE and AHCI modes.
In AHCI only the USB light flashes, in IDE only the HDD light.

Windows 7 MBR on HD, Grub4dos MBR on USB stick, no other mass storage devices.

Will post later on after a few tests.

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#15
Compstuff2

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DBAN is definitely overkill.
At the most you have to write 00's to the MBR.

But wait a minute, are you running an (integrated/added/modified) source of some kind?

Can you try with a "vanilla" XP with SP 2 or SP3 integrated and NOTHING else but (if needed) mass storage drivers?

jaclaz


I don't run a full DBAN since a few minutes are more than enough to wipe out a MBR

Yes my installations are heavily (integrated/added/modified), I run completely unattended installations... I use RyanVM to slipstream the monthly update packs plus about a dozen additional items, I use Driverpacks to integrate all drivers, I install software and other items from the DVD via RunOnceEX as well as many many custom tweaks and mods... just for clarification: give or take some driver issues I have been doing this with complete success for years on literally thousands of systems so all the general aspects work and it would be my goal to get this same level of custom installation on a USB if possible

Yes I can try a "vanilla" setup and report back...

Edited by Compstuff2, 12 August 2010 - 01:45 PM.


#16
jaclaz

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DBAN is definitely overkill.
At the most you have to write 00's to the MBR.

I don't run a full DBAN since a few minutes are more than enough to wipe out a MBR

Sure, but compare with the fractions of second to write a bunch of 00's...

Yes I can try a "vanilla" setup and report back...

Wait until ilko_t has made his tests, the creator of WinsetupFromUSB having a laptop on which the proogram won't work is a nice twist to the otherwise lately fundamentally boring plot. :angel :lol:

ANd before anyone says anything different:
  • YES, Lenovo's are queer :w00t:
  • YES, DELL's are MORE queer :ph34r:

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 12 August 2010 - 01:52 PM.


#17
cdob

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Latitude E6400 - FAILS
Latitude E5410 - FAILS
Vostro 3700 - OK
Vostro a860 - OK
Vostro 1015 - FAILS

Help, all Hell systems. The most USB trouble manufacturer.
Write more details, which part fails?
Remember to adjust ntdetect.com, compare FAQ.
A BIOS may behave different at CD and USB boot.
And a BIOS may map a missing floppy drive. Windows setup wait for floppy drive.
Floppy is never detected, because there is no floppy drive, blank cursor for ever.

#18
ilko_t

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A few quick tests:

Dell OEM XP Pro SP3, came with the laptop, setup from CD works with USB stick connected.
Same source does not work from USB and beta6.
No floppy drives reported by grub4dos.
Newer grub4dos version does not make any difference, neither did AHCI/IDE mode, nor Standard HAL, nor the modified ntdetect.com.
In IRRT (Inter Rapid Restore Technology) mode (SATA options are DISABLED, IDE, AHCI and IRRT) grub4dos reports the internal disk mapped in a funny way:
Posted Image

Posted Image

To test with older grub4dos version, WinSetupFromUSB 0.2.3, cdob's firadisk ISO setup, newer/older BIOS and check if some seemingly unrelated BIOS options matters.
Out of town for the weekend so updates most likely will be after Monday.

@cdob

My laptop is also Latitude E6400, BIOS A20 and vanila 2003 SP2 hung the same way with blank screen right after "Setup is starting Windows", in both IDE and AHCI modes.
In AHCI only the USB light flashes, in IDE only the HDD light.

Windows 7 MBR on HD, Grub4dos MBR on USB stick, no other mass storage devices.

Will post later on after a few tests.

To clarify- in Text mode, when partitions are supposed to show up screen goes completely black/blank.

And guys, please, no jokes about Dells :lol:

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#19
Compstuff2

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Thanks very much guys... needless to say I will hold off any further testing until you have a chance to make some sense of this... plus I have a lot to learn about this :)

#20
jaclaz

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And guys, please, no jokes about Dells :lol:


Naah, you CANNOT get away with this so easily! :realmad:

Actually most of the jokes around are about DELL's customers :angel :
http://www.ahajokes.com/dum09.html

and not about the smart guys that actually manage to create completely UNstandard BIOS and hardware, but we can adapt a few old ones:

down vote

A physicist, an engineer and a DELL programmer were in a car driving over a steep alpine pass when the brakes failed. The car was getting faster and faster, they were struggling to get round the corners and once or twice only the feeble crash barrier saved them from crashing down the side of the mountain. They were sure they were all going to die, when suddenly they spotted an escape lane. They pulled into the escape lane, and came safely to a halt.

The physicist said "We need to model the friction in the brake pads and the resultant temperature rise, see if we can work out why they failed".

The engineer said "I think I've got a few spanners in the back. I'll take a look and see if I can work out what's wrong".

The programmer said "Why don't we get going again and see if it's reproducible?"


But I have a scoop :w00t: the original handwritten source of the BIOS part that creates drive assignments in DELL's BIOS:
Posted Image

:lol:

The 1.0 beta6 - 7.March.2010 is this version the last one or Finale one?

Strangely enough, the 1.0 Beta 6 is the 1.0 Beta 6, thus NOT the last (hopefully) one, nor the Final.
But yes :), it is the more recent one. ;)


jaclaz

#21
ilko_t

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A few tests on Latitude E6400:
The ~BT & ~LS USB method and starting setup from a CD worked.

What didn't help, hangs on blank screen when partitions are supposed to show up:
-newer BIOS, A25
-various grub4dos versions- 0.4.5a 2010-02-09, 0.4.5b 2010-08-12, 0.4.4 2009-03-30
-small ISO method, also usb drivers moved to bus extender and input devices groups
-ISO + firadisk method
-SD card in the reader
-XP CD in the DVD drive
-DVD drive removed
-no hd0-->hd1 and vice versa mapping
-modified ntdetect.com
-some devices turned off in BIOS
-IDE/AHCI mode
-2003 SP2 source

Running out of ideas... :ph34r:


@jaseuk
Check in Program directory\winsetup\files\PyronSetup\I386 if setup.ex_ exist. Most likely an antivirus program either deleted it or doesn't let copying it. Download fresh copy of the program or turn off your antivirus.
http://www.msfn.org/...-xp-inst-v047z/

@jaclaz
These rumours and jokes must be based on true stories :lol:

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#22
ilko_t

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I am still chasing this one...

Dell released new BIOS, A27- same issue.
Tried to start Setup from a floppy image with setupldr.bin, ntdetect.com and txtsetup.sif in it mapped to fd0 and fd1- setup hangs the same way, this works on other machines.
Use latest chenalls grub4dos build- http://code.google.c...21.zip&can=2&q= - same result.

Interestingly, the firadisk method hangs the same way.

What the heck is wrong with these Dells... :wacko:

Any ideas and clues are more than welcome :ph34r:

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#23
ilko_t

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Success, at last.

It seems loading the ISO image in memory causes the hang. Mapping it with no ---mem option seems to do the trick. Of course the file has to be contiguous.

The only change is in winsetup.lst:
map  /WINSETUP/XPpSP2.ISO (0xff)

As a side note- Syslinux memdisk also seem to work on this system:
title Boot memdisk
kernel /memdisk
initrd /flp.img

flp.img is an image of floppy disk with SETUPLDR.BIN, NTDETECT.COM and TXTSETUP.SIF and bootsector invoking SETUPLDR.BIN.

Txtsetup.sif has a few lines added in order to change boot and source paths:

[SetupData]
...
SetupSourcePath ="\WINSETUP\XPpSP2\"
SetupSourceDevice=\ArcName\multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)
BootPath="\WINSETUP\XPpSP2\I386\"
BootDevice="multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)"
...

Memdisk was used just for testing purposes, it won't be suitable as we cannot change on the fly rdisk values according to th enumber of hard drives connected as we can do with grub4dos and
cat --locate=rdisk(X) --replace=rdisk(Y) (0xff)/I386/TXTSETUP.SIF

I am going to open a new thread in grub4dos support forum at boot-land.net and check if the good guys there have a workaround or clue what's going on.

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#24
steve6375

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This sounds like the BIOS e820h memory map function is returning incorrect memory size data. grub4dos will place the iso at the top of RAM. It is quite common for BIOSes to incorrectly report the size of memory and so grub4dos may load the ISO into memory locations that are being used for something else - shared UMA graphics memory for instance - and then the code gets trashed by the BIOS before it can be run!

MemTest86+ reports e820h memory size parameters when you run it - but for this test you should not load it into memory using --mem via grub4dos or it may crash or itself modify the parameters returned - I would recommend booting from CD and running it. MemTest86+ may even fail if it tries to test memory near the top which is not there...

I have reported many such errors to mainboard and notebook manufacturers over the years! Basically, Int 15h e820h reports free memory - if you try to use all the memory reported as 'free' and then test it, it fails because the values returned by the BIOs were incorrect. See this post for an explanation of what this does http://www.masm32.co...21&topic=1399.0

Edited by steve6375, 26 March 2011 - 04:15 AM.

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#25
ilko_t

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Thanks Steve, quite useful explanation. Must have missed this post.

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