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JFX

WinNTSetup v3.8.6

1,518 posts in this topic

Install of Win 8 on USB using UEFI computer and latest beta version of WinNTSetup is OK :)

Did not use any other tool.

- en-GB Default detected and used OK

- FAT32 format Win 8 bootsector detected OK

- Boot and EFI folders made OK and it allows booting Win8 from USB on UEFI and on BIOS computers :)

I unchecked the Checkbox - USB Boot of Windows 7, since it is NOT needed for Windows 8

May be better to uncheck that box default in case of Windows 8

It might quite well be that Win8 can be installed this way on USB for any UEFI computer.

Booting Grub4dos on UEFI computer is a different story.

In that case you really need to have the option to switch in UEFI the Advanced OS Setting from Win8 into Win7 / Other.

UEFI Setting Win8 boots via EFI folder and Grub4dos does not work

UEFI Setting Win7 / Other boots via Boot folder and Grub4dos works on UEFI computer

The Win7 / Other Setiing in UEFI might be called "BIOS compatible"

Thanks for making this very good program WinNTSetup :)

Edited by wimb
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Thanks for confirming :thumbup

I unchecked the Checkbox - USB Boot of Windows 7, since it is NOT needed for Windows 8

May be better to uncheck that box default in case of Windows 8

Yes, better I hide it next version.

But currently no problem it won't do anything if the OS to install is not windows 7.

cheers.gif

Edited by JFX
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Now that UEFI computer can boot Windows 8 from USB-harddisk with EFI folder in FAT32 partition and Standard Win8 MBR,

it would be interesting to get more feeling on how actually the bootsequence is working.

I may be wrong but it feels like:

UEFI > MBR bootcode > parttion table > FAT32 bootsector > EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi > EFI\Microsoft\Boot\bootmgr.efi reads BCD > bootmgfw.efi

EFI\Microsoft\Boot\BCD OS entry > NTFS partition > \Windows\system32\winload.efi

I feel a bit confused about the files bootmgr.efi and bootmgfw.efi in folder EFI\Microsoft\Boot

Can you give more explanation ?

Windows 8 booting from USB on UEFI computer = Parted Magic ISO booting from Grub4dos on UEFI Computer = Portable XP-2-P VHD booting via Grub4dos on UEFI computer

post-132150-0-39601500-1355487431_thumb. = post-132150-0-21884000-1355487631_thumb. = post-132150-0-07169600-1355488276_thumb.

Edited by wimb
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I think you right with the boot order.

I feel a bit confused about the files bootmgr.efi and bootmgfw.efi in folder EFI\Microsoft\Boot

That really a bit strange. Only thing i hear is that bootmgfw.efi does support USB devices and bootmgr.efi does not.

Somehow EFI looks chaotic, I mean why are there 3 loaders?!

Also \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi and \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\bootmgfw.efi are identical images.

Whoever designed the EFI boot stuff must be on the same wave as the Windows 8 UI designers. :ph34r:

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Whoever designed the EFI boot stuff must be on the same wave as the Windows 8 UI designers. :ph34r:

Well, as I see it, it is more or less the same trend that led to the idea of replacing a simple, plain text file like BOOT.INI with a Registry Hive (\boot\BCD) additionally "always in use" by the system, they all seem like having been not in class when they were teaching about Occam's Razor or the KISS principle.

The combined effect of unneededly complex implementation with scarce or no proper documentation will eventually lead to the extinction of the human race, through building systems so complex that no one will be able to manage them properly....

.... the machines will get self aware soon :ph34r:

jaclaz

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Up to now after installing XP, Vista or win7, I was always able to access each system from the other by not hiding the partitions. Now with Win8, those partitions get hidden every time I boot Win8. If I unhide them, Win8 resets those partitions to hidden when booting. How can I fix this so Win8 leaves these partitions alone?

Edited by click-click
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Up to now after installing XP, Vista or win7, I was always able to access each system from the other by not hiding the partitions. Now with Win8, those partitions get hidden every time I boot Win8. If I unhide them, Win8 resets those partitions to hidden when booting. How can I fix this so Win8 leaves these partitions alone?

I have setup quite some window 8 multi boot systems, but I never had such partition hide magic :unsure:

Is there a registry key called HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices\Offline in your registry?

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Maybe somebody can help with me this next question, maybe it's not 100% ontopic, please skip it then:

I'm not an expert, but I've learned so much in the last year, and like to "fool around" to learn new thing. Last week, I created new .wim files for Windows 7 and Windows 8, which include all Windows updates until now. I created them this way:

(1) WinNTSetup: use w7.wim, select a modified unattend.xml with the <Reseal><Mode>Audit</Mode></Reseal> part (2) Install all updates (except PC specific ones). (3) dism /online /cleanup-image (4) In Sysprep window: Select OOBE, Generalize and Shutdown (5) Boot with PE4 iso (6) dism /capture-image /imagefile:e:\w8new.wim /capturedir:c:\ /name:"Windows 8 updated"

This is working great, for Windows 8 and Windows 7. So I wanted to see how this works in XP and downloaded XPSP3 Deployment Tools: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=11282

What I would like to know:

- Is Sysprepping XP comparable to the W7/W8 way? Is an image that I create this way, usable on "all" PC's?

- What is the best way to image this sysprepped XP? I use Ghost and TrueImage, but up to now only for "pc-specific" and complete XP installs (not generalized installs). Besides, the "best/ cleanest" way would be to create setup files as they are present in the normal XP setup ISO, right? How can I create that?

- I've read that I van also use my PE4 boot ISO, then use DISM /capture-image to create a **.wim** from a XP setup. Well, that's nice, but WinNTSetup can't install XP from a .wim, can it?

Thanks for any and all insight on this. But if you can't be bothered, that's fine too!!

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Hmm, not so sure about how hardware compatible a XP sysprep image can be, but it should be possible to create a wim file and use winntsetup to apply it to disk.

Escorpiom seems to have success with it, but i have not tried it myself.

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Oh, never mind then. It looked like a good idea to have an updated XP and make such an image. I still wonder if I can make a "normal" looking XP setup folder structure. I sometimes see those "updated until nov/2012 XPSP3" iso's, I wonder how they're created then...

...

For w7/w8, those "Audit mode"/ updated/ imaged wims *are* supposed to be "universal", right? (Can be used on any system?)

For XP, it seemed a nice idea, because having a somewhat updated XPSP3 seems quite a hassle. I must admit I usually work with "outdated" XP's, I hate online updates. The systems we use are used in mostly offline situations anyway. You know, old(er) hardware, old(er) (expensive) software. I never "use" viruses, either :-)

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@ Atari800XL

It has been long while I last played with sysprep (years .. ;)) , I do not remember now, but I know an expert, Galapo

Galapo made "OfflineSysPrep" plugin available at Gena,

(\Gena\Apps\System Tools\Windows Setup\"OfflineSysPrep")

by defination:

=For sysprepping a Windows XP or 2003 partition that is hardware independent.

after "sysprepping", it would be all end user choice to save/restore as an image via ghost, any wim tool, vhd etc. or just pack (zip, 7z) :whistle:

After playing with "OfflineSysPrep" plugin you can ask further questions to Galapo around here

http://TheOven.org/index.php?board=13.0

B)

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Thanks!!! I guess it was my "mistake" to assume it would work more like in W7/W8? I mean, microsoft offers a "standard" new sysprep for XPSP3 (see the link in msg 434).

So is this correct:

(1) A hardware independent XP sysprep image is not "normal"

(2) The same for W7/W8 *is* normal

???

Then how to make a new, up-to-date XP iso?!? nlite and the likes only?

Edited by Atari800XL
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Just for the record the "historical" forum/reference for Offline Sysprep is here:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showforum=43

@Atari800XL

If you check this:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=22064

you should have a clear idea of what are the "missing pieces" of the puzzle in an ordinary sysprep and which ones Offline Sysprep provides.

jaclaz

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Thanks to all you experts!! I'm sorry, this stuff just goes over my head sometimes... If it wasn't for great tools like these.....

Please confirm (or deny) that the W7/W8 images I mentioned are more hardware-independent....? (While all you friendly geniuses are not away on holiday yet....) Because if they're not, I'm not sure there's a lot of use to them. Please correct me if I'm wrong! I'm just looking for a way to "inject" my OS install images with updates, and have only recentlry learned about doing this with DISM addpackage, and the Audit mode I mentioned. Now I still don't know which way is best... Audit mode looks reasonably convenient, but only if the resulting image is universal!

Edited by Atari800XL
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Please confirm (or deny) that the W7/W8 images I mentioned are more hardware-independent....? (While all you friendly geniuses are not away on holiday yet....) Because if they're not, I'm not sure there's a lot of use to them. Please correct me if I'm wrong! I'm just looking for a way to "inject" my OS install images with updates, and have only recentlry learned about doing this with DISM addpackage, and the Audit mode I mentioned. Now I still don't know which way is best... Audit mode looks reasonably convenient, but only if the resulting image is universal!

You do understand how:

  1. bound to a given HAL/driver set only (moved or plain sysprepped XP)
  2. offline syprepped XP
  3. Win7
  4. Win8
  5. Universal

lie on a logarithmic scale, don't you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithmic_scale

jaclaz

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http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=23553

2. How to prepare XP Setup Source ? - Prepare XP Setup ISO file with integrated UpdatePack and DriverPacks

First Integrate ServicePack SP3 in your XP-SP2 Source (don't use here nLite).

....

RyanVM Integrator was used to Integrate All Updates until okt 2012 (Dutch Update Pack http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8428)

....

Use DPsBase.exe to Integrate DriverPacks Chipset + Processor + MassStorage + LAN + WLAN DriverPacks

....

You should select to Keep The Drivers for Chipset + Processor + MassStorage + LAN

Then WINDOWS\DriverPacks is about 135 MB which is acceptable and provides a lot of extra driver support

which is useful to make XP Universal and adapt easily to very different hardware.

XP Setup Source according to the described procedure works fine with WinNTSetup2 :)

Additionally after XP Setup then Install (= Sysprep) the extra MassStorage Drivers so that they can be used when booting on diifferent hardware.

Install the extra MassStorage Drivers by using USB_XP_Fix.exe or IMG_XP_Compact.exe or IMG_XP_Restore.exe

WINDOWS\DriverPacks makes XP just as (or even more) powerfull as C:\Windows\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository is doing for Windows 7

Edited by wimb
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Up to now after installing XP, Vista or win7, I was always able to access each system from the other by not hiding the partitions. Now with Win8, those partitions get hidden every time I boot Win8. If I unhide them, Win8 resets those partitions to hidden when booting. How can I fix this so Win8 leaves these partitions alone?

I have setup quite some window 8 multi boot systems, but I never had such partition hide magic :unsure:

Is there a registry key called HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices\Offline in your registry?

In the meantime Win8 has stopped doing this. I don't know what the original cause was. I did not have that reg entry.

Something kept changing id=07 to id=17.

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Hello JFX, above all thank you for a great program! But in the latest versions have a problem installing XP after reboot "ntldr is missing" in the "old" versions of all right ... And, to make available for download previous versions please.

Thank you!

(Please forgive me for my english, I'm from Ukraine)

Edited by vladislays
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Hi vladislays,

there is an older version 2.2.1.1 on mediafire link in first post, but I really don't think that the problem is caused by newer version.

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Yes, you're right, looks like a problem in the BIOS to older laptops "Acer" :}

Thanks again for WinNTSetup!!!

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Please correct me if I'm wrong! I'm just looking for a way to "inject" my OS install images with updates, and have only recentlry learned about doing this with DISM addpackage, and the Audit mode I mentioned. Now I still don't know which way is best... Audit mode looks reasonably convenient, but only if the resulting image is universal!

Audit mode would be the best solution. If you finished with installing updates, enable the "Generalize" check box and shutdown.

Such image captured with imagex or dism can be used with WinNTSetup without any problem.

BTW: here's a wimscript.ini ExclusionList with unneeded files, that I think should not be captured.

[ExclusionList]
\$ntfs.log
\Boot
\BootNXT
\EFI
\Bootmgr
\Recovery
\PerfLogs
\hiberfil.sys
\pagefile.sys
\swapfile.sys
"\System Volume Information"
\$RECYCLE.BIN
\RECYCLER
\Windows\CSC
\Windows\Logs
\Windows\Prefetch
\Windows\SoftwareDistribution
\Windows\Temp
\Windows\WinNTSetup.log
\Windows\WindowsUpdate.log
\Windows\setupact.log
\Windows\setupapi.log
\Windows\setuperr.log

Edited by JFX
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JFX, quite an unexpected surprise to see you replying to my Audit mode experiments! Thank you.

I'm new to wimscript.ini files, I'll have to look up how they're used, I'll do that tomorrow.

Already found it:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh825006.aspx

Now I *did* notice that my "Audit mode - updated" wim files grew quite a bit (30-50%), that was a bit more than I expected from true "integration", but now I'll do the capturing again with the exclusion list. Now you're not saying that /captureimage is so "dumb" to capture the pagefile and swapfile??!

(And yes, I've tested tested the Audit-mode-updated wim files with WinNTSetup, working great. Tested Windows 8 Enterprise, Pro, ProWMC, all in 32 and 64bit).

Today, I did a little experiment with reading HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\SystemInformation in WinPESE. It looks like this is only available in PE? It looks like it's not available in "full" Windows. I can use this to check which PC I'm installing on (like the "BIOSVersion" key). Depending on the value, different "drivers.iso" files are mounted (and the driveletter passed on to WinNTSetup). Seems to work quite nicely.

...this is just to let you know that everytime WinNTSetup is surprising me with its power!!

Also, did a little testing on the new DaRT 8.0. JFX, you're probably the best person to ask this: What does DaRT 8.0 have that can't be done with a tool like WinPE_SE, with some nice portable tools?! For one thing, I love having the Diskmanagement GUI!!! (Don't have that my standard WinPE4 yet!).

Edited by Atari800XL
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Sorry, one addendum:

Could it be that the update files are all kept in:

\Windows\SoftwareDistribution? So it would be save to "delete" them (or not include them in the image). The "update-history" would still be remembered correctly?

Sorry if this might seem offtopic, still, to me it's 100% WinNTSetup related....

Edited by Atari800XL
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Now I *did* notice that my "Audit mode - updated" wim files grew quite a bit (30-50%), that was a bit more than I expected from true "integration", but now I'll do the capturing again with the exclusion list. Now you're not saying that /captureimage is so "dumb" to capture the pagefile and swapfile??!

No, it don't capture pagefile, well maybe older imagex captures the new swapfile.sys.

But if you use custom exclusion list you need in include the default one again.

The reason that the install grow so much, is that old components aren't deleted.

Today, I did a little experiment with reading HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\SystemInformation in WinPESE. It looks like this is only available in PE? It looks like it's not available in "full" Windows.

It exist here with usefull data on my full Windows 7, too.

Also, did a little testing on the new DaRT 8.0. JFX, you're probably the best person to ask this: What does DaRT 8.0 have that can't be done with a tool like WinPE_SE, with some nice portable tools?! For one thing, I love having the Diskmanagement GUI!!! (Don't have that my standard WinPE4 yet!).

Hmm, one special thing of Dart I can think off is the Hotfix uninstaller. Not sure there is any alternative, but actually one very rarely need it.

Could it be that the update files are all kept in:

\Windows\SoftwareDistribution? So it would be save to "delete" them (or not include them in the image). The "update-history" would still be remembered correctly?

Should be save to delete this folder, it's a temporary download location for updates. Installed updates go into WinSxS folder and are registered in the registry. Edited by JFX
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JFX, thanks again, you're the best!!! I promise I will (try to) shut up now, it's just that I've had a few days of vacation, and this was another opportunity to learn a lot of new stuff. For me, WinPE_SE (which of course has a lot of JFX in it!!) and WinNTSetup are among the best tools I ever had the pleasure to use. Just as good or better than my all-time favorites: Semware Editor (used that for almost 25 years now), TCC (/LE, 4dos, 4nt, etc), and "Mini" Office 97 portable (no joke, I still use the 18 exe and dll files, 17,5mb, from 1997, they've produced literally tens of thousands of files over the years, I use Excel and Word only, still works in Windows 8x64). But I digress again...

Have a good 2013, you're my PC-Person Of The Year 2012!!! :thumbup

Edited by Atari800XL
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